2000-2004: Tracy Mcgrady or Kobe Bryant?

[230MVP]

And had better production... and was a better shooter/passer.. cmon its not an insane opinion to have.

Each players had their pro's/con's I dont think its insane to go either way on this one.

Kobe has become the better player through longetivity but from 00-04 any gap between the two was small and a case can be made for either player.

I guess Its more natural for people to go with the ATGreat who has the jewelry and not the Great who fizzled out after playin a couple of years on bad teams.

[Doormatt]

Tmac only has 1 or 2 seasons where it can be argued he was better than Kobe, besides that, Kobe was either clearly better or just a bit better, either way he was still better.

[230MVP]

Personally I think Kobe was better in 00 and 01 but TMac was better from 02-04

Even 01 its close.. I could make an argument for TMac, he put up some beastly stats that year in the RS and PS while being the main focus of opposing defenses while Kobe had the benefit of being somewhat under the radar that year and playing off of Prime Shaq who just had a MDE Type Season.

Still Kobe went to work that year and took full advantage of his situation and also played great D so I feel like I should give it to him.

[semi-sentient]

Here's what I would go with:

99-00: Kobe (by a good margin)
00-01: Kobe
01-02: McGrady
02-03: Kobe (by the slightest of margins)
03-04: McGrady

[tsherkin]

But Kobe had a pretty mediocre year, easily worse than T-Mac`s. He averaged 24 ppg on .043 % efficiency, thats not the Kobe everybody was expecting, he really had a sub-par season, and then he was really bad in the Finals that year, factoring all that, I cant say Kobe was better than Mcgrady in 2004.

His defense was better; the offensive troubles came at least in part due to how bad Gary Payton was within the triangle offense, and how difficult it was to spread the ball across three guys who were legit 20+ ppg scorers in their day. And giving Kobe more FGA/g than Shaq that year was dumb.

Certainly wasn't a great season scoring-wise, but the all-around game was in Kobe's favor, IMO, because of defense. I'd cede the notion that it's a contestable season, though.

im not saying Kobe couldnt pass as well as Mcgrady, but the second one had a superior basketball IQ and a better selection, that alone should count when we`re talking about passing capacity and all. Thats why im giving Mcgrady the slight edge here on passing.

I contest the idea that McGrady had superior basketball IQ. And selection of what? Shots? McGrady's shot selection wasn't far different from Kobe's, not enough to lend him any advantage there. Passing selection? Lest we forget, the two had very different offensive systems, so the type of available passes were different. Kobe did a lot of unhailed post-entry passes and simple reversal at the top of the triangle, if you recall, so it's not like he was rocking crazy Magic passes or anything. McGrady penetrated and dished or passed out of the high post mostly, nothing fancy, just effective. A lot like Kobe.

[picc]

With possible exception to 2004 when Kobe was out of shape and injured, at no point in their careers was Tracy a better basketball player than Kobe. IMO.

[LakerLegend]

Let's not forget Kobe was All-Defensive First Team in 03, and by now it should be clear to everyone he would have better stats without Shaq.

In 01 Kobe and Shaq were feuding hard, then Kobe got married and was ok with deferring to Shaq even more in 02. Its not like his stats dropped off because he got worse. In one of the games without Shaq that year he had 56 in 3 quarters.

04, am I the only one who remembers Colorado? Knee and Shoulder surgeries, he was never in shape the whole year? Lets not forget Kobe completely obliterating him in that matchup that year too.

[guy1]

2000: Kobe
2001: Kobe
2002: Kobe
2003: T-Mac
2004: Kobe
2005: T-Mac
2006: Kobe
2007: Kobe
2008: Kobe
2009: Kobe
2010: Kobe
2011: Kobe

[RandomKnight]

With possible exception to 2004 when Kobe was out of shape and injured, at no point in their careers was Tracy a better basketball player than Kobe. IMO.

This.

The way people use simple box score stats without context or other metrics is just numbing. I followed them both closely in Tracy's best year. Even then it was never close. Kobe was always a vastly superior player.

PS I just reread this and to be honest I really didn't watch Tracy play all that much but I did follow their box score battle. Still, it really is not close over the period of time in question. And that was when it was closest.

[bigrussia]

tmac in 03 was an absolute beast, although i think people are overrating his 04 stats. that team was garbage and they didn't win, as apposed to 03, when the team was almost as garbage but almost beat the #1 seed in the playoffs. I think the impact shaq had on kobes game is also being underrated. tmacs teammates were terrible and the magic were still winning in 02/03 (which is why i think kobe - even with his terrible chemistry in 04, possibly had the better year). over the course of the entire 4 season stretch, i'd take mcgrady, b/c of 02 slightly, 03, and equal 04.

[EarlTheGoat]

Even then it was never close. Kobe was always a vastly superior player.

Sure.

[Precision9]

2000: Kobe
2001: Kobe
2002: Kobe
2003: T-Mac
2004: Kobe
2005: T-Mac
2006: Kobe
2007: Kobe
2008: Kobe
2009: Kobe
2010: Kobe
2011: Kobe

I would take Kobe for 05 to be honest. There is no way Kobe would lose in the 1st round to the Mavericks especially with Yao Ming on his team. Kobe probably could have beat the Mavericks in a 7 game series with the supporting cast he had in 06 or 07. Kobe single handily destroyed those Mavericks back then.

[Leo24]

2000: Kobe
2001: Kobe
2002: Kobe
2003: T-Mac
2004: Kobe
2005: T-Mac
2006: Kobe
2007: Kobe
2008: Kobe
2009: Kobe
2010: Kobe
2011: Kobe

This.

[Die93]

Kobe easily, he was a better scorer and when you factor in Defense and clutch play its not close.

[AlphaWolfAWBA]

Kobe and it aint even close....

funny how no one has mentioned "winning championships"

Kobe was the better allaround player (defense is the most important part of basketball) and won 3 titles in that stretch...

Kelly Tripuka could score 30ppg 6reb 6ast in the 2003 Orlando Magic and Lose in the first round...or miss the playoff's...




Oh yeah I forgot...Winning is just pure Luck and special teamates that No one else has

[therealbig3]

I think 03 T-Mac had the edge over Kobe, but outside of that, I'd give Kobe the edge every year. T-Mac was always right there, but never quite on that level, because he was never as efficient as Kobe as a scorer.

BTW, I don't think there was that much difference defensively to be honest. Kobe was good, but never all that amazing on defense, while T-Mac has been underrated. And anyway, defense from a SG isn't going to impact a game that much, so whatever slight advantage either one had at any given time, it didn't really matter all that much. I think this comes down to offense, where I think Kobe's superior scoring gives him the overall edge (although I think T-Mac had the edge as a playmaker).

[EarlTheGoat]

funny how no one has mentioned "winning championships"

You cant win championships playing with DeClerc, Garrity, Gooden and Mike Miller.

Son.

[Asianiac_24]

I'd give T-Mac the edge in 04 because Kobe was atrocious that year (although T-Mac didn't do much better), but every other year I'm taking Kobe. I'll take Kobe Bryant

[EarlTheGoat]

But Kobe had a pretty mediocre year, easily worse than T-Mac`s. He averaged 24 ppg on .043 % efficiency, thats not the Kobe everybody was expecting, he really had a sub-par season, and then he was really bad in the Finals that year, factoring all that, I cant say Kobe was better than Mcgrady in 2004.

His defense was better; the offensive troubles came at least in part due to how bad Gary Payton was within the triangle offense, and how difficult it was to spread the ball across three guys who were legit 20+ ppg scorers in their day. And giving Kobe more FGA/g than Shaq that year was dumb.

Certainly wasn't a great season scoring-wise, but the all-around game was in Kobe's favor, IMO, because of defense. I'd cede the notion that it's a contestable season, though.

im not saying Kobe couldnt pass as well as Mcgrady, but the second one had a superior basketball IQ and a better selection, that alone should count when we`re talking about passing capacity and all. Thats why im giving Mcgrady the slight edge here on passing.

I contest the idea that McGrady had superior basketball IQ. And selection of what? Shots? McGrady's shot selection wasn't far different from Kobe's, not enough to lend him any advantage there. Passing selection? Lest we forget, the two had very different offensive systems, so the type of available passes were different. Kobe did a lot of unhailed post-entry passes and simple reversal at the top of the triangle, if you recall, so it's not like he was rocking crazy Magic passes or anything. McGrady penetrated and dished or passed out of the high post mostly, nothing fancy, just effective. A lot like Kobe.

Yeah I agree that his defense was better, but still, he was not as good offensively as acostumed to. Id still take Mcgrady that year, in 2004, I guess its agree to disagree.

The thing about passing, well both were good passers and all, but yes I always felt that Mcgrady was the slightest (only the slightest) more intelligent player, and a bit more talented passer, but thats just me. Its extremely close though, no doubt.

I think most reasonable people in this thread agree that Mcgrady versus Kobe was a very very close individual match-up from 2002 to 2004, and its really a toss, you cant go wrong either way.

[sanitylaker]

Afro Mamba is seriously underrated here.

He is a two-way player. I will take him over any version of T-Mac.