#16 Highest Peak of All Time (Robinson '95 wins)

[KGboss]

I would like to throw Dirk's 06-07 season into the discussion as well.

The seven-foot forward led the Mavericks to the best-record (67-15, .817) in the NBA, tying for the sixth-best single-season winning percentage in NBA history. Nowitzki averaged team highs of 24.6 points, 8.9 rebounds and a career-best 3.4 assists while setting career-highs in field goal percentage (.502), three-point field goal percentage (.416) and free throw percentage (.904). The Mavericks were an impressive 18-1 when he scored 30 or more points.

He was magnificent that year overall, winning the MVP for his outstanding performance on the court. I just remember him being above everyone that year.

Other guy i would consider would be Barkley for #16.

[C-izMe]

We need posts on Charles Barkley. He had several sick seasons. He's not getting the respect here.

I think it's because offensively he isn't definetly better than the peak guards (Wade, West, etc.) and defensively he might be worse. Deserves conversation but he shouldn't be this high (he's definetly over DRob though).

[Lightning25]

We need posts on Charles Barkley. He had several sick seasons. He's not getting the respect here.

I think Barkley and Dirk's peaks should be ahead of Tmac's, but not Wade's. Wade was too great of a two-way player to have Barkley and Dirk ahead. Tmac wasn't as great of a two-way player and closer to a one-way player so I think he should be compared to the likes of Barkley and Dirk rather than the likes of Kobe and Wade.

[ardee]

I would like to throw Dirk's 06-07 season into the discussion as well.

The seven-foot forward led the Mavericks to the best-record (67-15, .817) in the NBA, tying for the sixth-best single-season winning percentage in NBA history. Nowitzki averaged team highs of 24.6 points, 8.9 rebounds and a career-best 3.4 assists while setting career-highs in field goal percentage (.502), three-point field goal percentage (.416) and free throw percentage (.904). The Mavericks were an impressive 18-1 when he scored 30 or more points.

He was magnificent that year overall, winning the MVP for his outstanding performance on the court. I just remember him being above everyone that year.

Other guy i would consider would be Barkley for #16.

And then he averaged 19.7 ppg on 51% TS in the first round and as a result his 67 win Mavs lost to the 42 win Warriors.

No way a season with such a poor postseason performance should even be in the discussion.

With Dirk, there are several other great seasons to consider.... 2006, 2009 and 2011 have all received a lot of discussion. My personal pick is 2011, but I won't be voting for him for a while in any case.

Oh and by the way, shoutouts to 2002 and 2003. Just sick Playoff performances, especially in 2002 when he dismantled KG in the first round with 33-16 on 69% TS.

[ardee]

We need posts on Charles Barkley. He had several sick seasons. He's not getting the respect here.

I sense a '90 vs. '93 argument looming about Chuck.

[nikomCH]

These guys need to fill up the next 7 spots in some order: Wade, Paul, Dirk, Barkley, Robinson, McGrady, and West.

[The Infamous1]

How soon Before 2008 Paul?

[nikomCH]

I would like to throw Dirk's 06-07 season into the discussion as well.

The seven-foot forward led the Mavericks to the best-record (67-15, .817) in the NBA, tying for the sixth-best single-season winning percentage in NBA history. Nowitzki averaged team highs of 24.6 points, 8.9 rebounds and a career-best 3.4 assists while setting career-highs in field goal percentage (.502), three-point field goal percentage (.416) and free throw percentage (.904). The Mavericks were an impressive 18-1 when he scored 30 or more points.

He was magnificent that year overall, winning the MVP for his outstanding performance on the court. I just remember him being above everyone that year.

Other guy i would consider would be Barkley for #16.

And then he averaged 19.7 ppg on 51% TS in the first round and as a result his 67 win Mavs lost to the 42 win Warriors.

No way a season with such a poor postseason performance should even be in the discussion.

With Dirk, there are several other great seasons to consider.... 2006, 2009 and 2011 have all received a lot of discussion. My personal pick is 2011, but I won't be voting for him for a while in any case.

Oh and by the way, shoutouts to 2002 and 2003. Just sick Playoff performances, especially in 2002 when he dismantled KG in the first round with 33-16 on 69% TS.

I agree that 07 Dirk should be ruled out, but not because of a poor first round. 5-6 games should not erase what a guy did in the RS. The issue there was losing to an inferior 8 seed (regardless of matchup problems) and additionally not performing well. But for a guy like Wade I don't think it makes sense to say 10 was his peak season just because he caught fire against the Celtics in the 1st round. 09 Wade was the better player despite a weak 1st round. IMO playoff performances need a minimum of like 10 games to really mean anything (it's an arbitrary number but just something that gives you more than one round of data to look at)

[KGboss]

Well if Dirk is being discounted for going out in the first round (even if it was an 8th seed over a 1st seed) then so should wade in 2009.

I was thinking about Dirk 2011 over 2007 as well, but his statistical numbers that year above everyone in the league was the reason for me submitting that year specifically.

Where would you put Dirk's peak at then if not that year?

[C-izMe]

Well if Dirk is being discounted for going out in the first round (even if it was an 8th seed over a 1st seed) then so should wade in 2009.

I was thinking about Dirk 2011 over 2007 as well, but his statistical numbers that year above everyone in the league was the reason for me submitting that year specifically.

Where would you put Dirk's peak at then if not that year?

Wade's supporting cast was not only way worse than Dirk's but he also had the better regular season.

[mysticbb]

I agree that 07 Dirk should be ruled out, but not because of a poor first round. 5-6 games should not erase what a guy did in the RS. The issue there was losing to an inferior 8 seed (regardless of matchup problems) and additionally not performing well.

Because the team lost, we should ignore the circumstances? And while Nowitzki performed below his standard on offense, he actually was playing pretty well on the defensive end. Through the first 5 games of that series, Nowitzki had 22ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2 stpg, 1.6 bpg, 54.3 TS% and 9.8 TOV%. That is not great, but not that bad. And if we add that Harrington was completely shut down by Nowitzki (5.4 ppg on 35 TS%, the same guy who average 17ppg on 54 TS% for the Warriors previously, and 17 ppg on 58 TS% against Utah in the next round), we can very well say that Nowitzki was still performing well enough to give his team a chance to win. But yet, the Mavericks were down 2-3 at that point. Something doesn't add up, if we want to blame that completely on Nowitzki.

First, the Warriors weren't the normal 8th seed. Look at how they played over their last 21 games in the regular season, they went 16-5, playing like a 8 SRS team. And when we look at the starting lineup we notice that it all started when their starting lineup had Davis, Richardson, Jackson and Harrington in for the first time that season, because of injuries and a big midseason trade. Let the Warriors have those players available for a full season and they wouldn't have ended as a 8th seed.
Second, and probably more importantly, the Warriors killed the Mavericks in transition and by perimeter shooting. Neither of that had much to do with Nowitzki.

[LikeABosh]

Kobe getting in makes things complicated. I voted for DRob, but kobe, wade and t-mac are all neck and neck imo

Edit: I don't get why we're bringing up 07 Dirk and the majority here are so quick to discredit DRob because of a bad playoff performance.

[KGboss]

I agree that 07 Dirk should be ruled out, but not because of a poor first round. 5-6 games should not erase what a guy did in the RS. The issue there was losing to an inferior 8 seed (regardless of matchup problems) and additionally not performing well.

Because the team lost, we should ignore the circumstances? And while Nowitzki performed below his standard on offense, he actually was playing pretty well on the defensive end. Through the first 5 games of that series, Nowitzki had 22ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2 stpg, 1.6 bpg, 54.3 TS% and 9.8 TOV%. That is not great, but not that bad. And if we add that Harrington was completely shut down by Nowitzki (5.4 ppg on 35 TS%, the same guy who average 17ppg on 54 TS% for the Warriors previously, and 17 ppg on 58 TS% against Utah in the next round), we can very well say that Nowitzki was still performing well enough to give his team a chance to win. But yet, the Mavericks were down 2-3 at that point. Something doesn't add up, if we want to blame that completely on Nowitzki.

First, the Warriors weren't the normal 8th seed. Look at how they played over their last 21 games in the regular season, they went 16-5, playing like a 8 SRS team. And when we look at the starting lineup we notice that it all started when their starting lineup had Davis, Richardson, Jackson and Harrington in for the first time that season, because of injuries and a big midseason trade. Let the Warriors have those players available for a full season and they wouldn't have ended as a 8th seed.
Second, and probably more importantly, the Warriors killed the Mavericks in transition and by perimeter shooting. Neither of that had much to do with Nowitzki.

+1 thank you for the positive input.

[Dr Positivity]

Whoa, I passionately reject Dirk 2007 getting consideration with his GSW performance. Compare that it 2006 where he's just about as good in the regular season (eg. he has a higher PER in 2006), then MUCH better in the PS, with a legendary performance the first 3 rounds. Just can't see where Dirk being slightly better in the RS in 07 is supposed to make up for that enough to pass 06 among mid-decade Dirk years, unless someone's criteria is to almost ignore the playoffs because of a small sample size

[nikomCH]

I agree that 07 Dirk should be ruled out, but not because of a poor first round. 5-6 games should not erase what a guy did in the RS. The issue there was losing to an inferior 8 seed (regardless of matchup problems) and additionally not performing well.

Because the team lost, we should ignore the circumstances? And while Nowitzki performed below his standard on offense, he actually was playing pretty well on the defensive end. Through the first 5 games of that series, Nowitzki had 22ppg, 11.6 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2 stpg, 1.6 bpg, 54.3 TS% and 9.8 TOV%. That is not great, but not that bad. And if we add that Harrington was completely shut down by Nowitzki (5.4 ppg on 35 TS%, the same guy who average 17ppg on 54 TS% for the Warriors previously, and 17 ppg on 58 TS% against Utah in the next round), we can very well say that Nowitzki was still performing well enough to give his team a chance to win. But yet, the Mavericks were down 2-3 at that point. Something doesn't add up, if we want to blame that completely on Nowitzki.

True, but that Game 6 was an abomination (like Lakers road elimination game status) and Dirk was awful. And we're not talking about the 08 Celtics here on defense so even if the Warriors were a better team than the record/SRS indicates, Dirk wasn't exactly playing at an MVP level for any of the series.

It's rare that you can ever fully blame one guy for losing a playoff series, but I'm not doing that. I just think it makes more sense for 06 Dirk to get in before even considering 07 Dirk.

[JordansBulls]

Whoa, I passionately reject Dirk 2007 getting consideration with his GSW performance. Compare that it 2006 where he's just about as good in the regular season (eg. he has a higher PER in 2006), then MUCH better in the PS, with a legendary performance the first 3 rounds. Just can't see where Dirk being slightly better in the RS in 07 is supposed to make up for that enough to pass 06 among mid-decade Dirk years, unless someone's criteria is to almost ignore the playoffs because of a small sample size

Dirk 2006 would get more consideration than Dirk 2007. Dirk 2006 was fantastic in the season and playoffs (was just bad in that game 3 to seal the deal) Not to mention had the best numbers. But can't put Dirk 2006 ahead of Wade 2006.

[Lightning25]

Dirk's peak is quite clearly 2011 for me. He had an improved post-game, an underrated regular season, and a dominant post-season.

I also agree with whoever said that 2006 Dirk would be ahead of 2007 Dirk.

[Lightning25]

Well if Dirk is being discounted for going out in the first round (even if it was an 8th seed over a 1st seed) then so should wade in 2009.

I was thinking about Dirk 2011 over 2007 as well, but his statistical numbers that year above everyone in the league was the reason for me submitting that year specifically.

Where would you put Dirk's peak at then if not that year?

2009 Wade's post-season was not even close to being as bad as Dirk's 2007 post-season. Dirk's peak was not 2007, it was either 2011 or 2006, maybe even 2009.

Kobe getting in makes things complicated. I voted for DRob, but kobe, wade and t-mac are all neck and neck imo

Edit: I don't get why we're bringing up 07 Dirk and the majority here are so quick to discredit DRob because of a bad playoff performance.

Tmac is a step behind Wade and Kobe imo, he is not the two-way player those two were.

Tmac's peak gets overrated though because of his terrific numbers but numbers don't show everything. They don't show one's defense, they don't show intangibles/leadership, and they don't show how well they did against certain competition. As pointed out in the last thread, Tmac did beat up a lot of bad teams and had a huge drop off when he played against good teams.

[KGboss]

So in most of your opinions the two seasons where Dirk went deeper in the playoffs - 1 winning it all and 1 choking to Wades performance in 2006, are better than his MVP season, just based on playoff performance alone?

[Lightning25]

So in most of your opinions the two seasons where Dirk went deeper in the playoffs - 1 winning it all and 1 choking to Wades performance in 2006, are better than his MVP season, just based on playoff performance alone?

Dirk was an MVP candidate and close to an MVP in 2006 and 2011 though so it's not like his regular season performances were poor in those seasons. Dirk played very poorly in the 2007 post-season and the post-season means the most when talking about all-time greats.

We could argue that 2007 was Dirk's best season, but we are arguing when Dirk was at his peak/absolute best. I think his absolute best was in 2011 when he had a dominant post-season performance and when he had a reliable back to the basket/low-post game.