#30 Highest Peak of All Time (Howard '11 wins)

[Doctor MJ]

Vote: Howard '11

Sticking with'im.

[Lightning25]

Tally

1975 Barry - JordansBulls, DavidStern
1988 Mchale - therealbig3
1987 Mchale - C-Mizle
2011 Howard - Doctor MJ

I think I'm going to hold off for my vote. I'm not sure if Durant has anything going here so there wouldn't be much of a point in voting for him yet. fatal9 has backed off on him and I think I might join him on that.

[ardee]

Vote: 1975 Rick Barry

Just very impressed with that Playoff run and knocking off a team much better then his during the regular season, with the kind of help he had.

[fatal9]

vote: 2011 Howard

[Dr Positivity]

Vote 2011 Howard

[SDChargers#1]

Vote: 2011 Dwight Howard.

What separates him from Barry and King is the defense. Both were pretty poor on that end, while it is Dwight's biggest strength.

What separates Dwight from McHale from me is the whole first option thing. McHale never had a chance to be fair, but considering what Dwight has accomplished as the sole Star on his team, gives him the edge for me.

[Doctor MJ]

Howard '11 takes it.

[penbeast0]

re: Barry was inefficient
It's not true, and for sure his scoring efficiency didn't affected negatively his teams ORTGs


1965 - no Barry, Warriors 9th (in 9 teams league) in ortg, -6.4 (!) relatively to league average

1966 - rookie Barry, 7th (9 teams), but -2.8 relatively to league average, so huge improvement

1967 - 7th (10 teams), but -0.7 and he lead Warriors (team which didn't make playoffs two previous years despite having Thurmond) to the finals as 2nd year player

1968 - no Barry, 10th (12 teams) and -2.8

That was worse version of Barry, who scored a lot, but didn't do much else on offense. He was still very good (around +3 SRS player) but worse than his prime version.


1972 - no Barry, Warrios 15th place in ortg (17 teams in the NBA), -3.1 ortg relatively to league average

1973 - 11th (17 teams), -0.5 ortg it was Barry's first year after ABA, transition season I would say as he need time to adjust, but he still improved team a lot.

1974 - it was the year, when Barry entered his prime and showed perfect (for a wing) balance between scoring, playmaking and defense. Warriors offense was 2nd in the league despite so called Barry's inefficient shooting...

1975 - the same story, 2nd offense in the league and of course championship without great defenders and with second option such as Wilkes (who later was 4th best player on title Lakers teams)

1976 - Warriors still were 2nd best offense in the NBA and their anchor still was "inefficent" Barry.

1977 - 4th offense (among 22 teams)
1978 - 10th offense (among 22 teams), last Barry's season as a Warrior, first season since 1973 when his assist average was below 6 per game.

So what we see here is first true point forawrd leading "mini" offensive dynasty during mid 70s. It didn't last long (only 4 seasons), but was pretty impressive looking at Barry's supporting cast. So I think Rick's inefficiency is very overblown thing. Sure, he probably was inefficient scorer by modern standards, but his style of play for sure helped his teams and made them very good on offensive end. And it shouldn't be surprise, because off ball perimeter scorers are always valuable offensively. Playmaking forwards also are positive for offense. And Barry did both these things extremely well + he was very good scorer and above average defender. He was like combination of Reggie Miller (off ball stuff) and Grant Hill with better defense.

PS
Most of his career Barry's TS% was above league average.

I will give you that he was a playmaker equivalent to or superior to Grant Hill, and that he had Reggie Miller range, if not Reggie Miller accuracy, relative to his league . . . but where did you get the idea that Barry, always known for weak defense, was better than Grant Hill who was known for pretty decent defense in his prime?

Do the Warriors defensive stats bear this out (understanding he was playing with outstanding defenders like Nate Thurmond/Clyde Lee then Clifford Ray/Jamaal Wilkes in the front court much of his career)?