Wilt 67, KAJ 72, MJ 91, Shaq 00, LBJ 13?

[Gregoire]

Maybe you are right, I need to include 77 Kareem instead of 72.

[Gregoire]

Only one vote for Lebron? Strange...

[dautjazz]

Screw it, I'm taking Jordan, I have found, that is usually the safe gamble. If not, maybe Wilt, he was able to do EVERYTHING, and I'm sure he was getting north of 3-4bpg too. What would Wilt's PER be if you factored in 4bpg and 1spg?

[ardee]

Only one vote for Lebron? Strange...

People have cooled off after his underwhelming first two rounds I guess.

He still has a chance to vault back into the Wilt-Jordan-Shaq discussion if he goes '09 for the next two rounds, which is looking likely after 33-9-7 on 66% TS in his last two games.

[Warspite]

I am not quite as high on Wilt's 67 season as some others are.

He was a dominant rebounder & defensive anchor but on offense I feel he didn't have to carry quite the load or shoulder the same burden that others did in their ATG seasons.

He only averaged 20ppg in 48mpg while playing in the fastest paced era in league history.
He was also only 3rd or 4th I believe in FGA on that team.

I think Peak Shaq & Kareem carried a larger burden on the offensive end while also dominating the boards and anchoring their teams defenses.

That is why I rank their Peaks ahead of Wilt's.

So your saying your not impressed by WIlt being 4th in FGA on the sixers and being 5th in ppg in the whole league?

[Colbinii]

So your saying your not impressed by WIlt being 4th in FGA on the sixers and being 5th in ppg in the whole league?

No. He is saying he is MORE impressed by the other players than he is Wilt.

[ThaRegul8r]

Only one vote for Lebron? Strange...

People have cooled off after his underwhelming first two rounds I guess.

He still has a chance to vault back into the Wilt-Jordan-Shaq discussion if he goes '09 for the next two rounds, which is looking likely after 33-9-7 on 66% TS in his last two games.

Perhaps people should just hold off altogether from knee-jerk rankings until the season is finished. I dislike when a season still in progress is compared to completed seasons. That leads to silliness like "GOAT!", then "I guess it isn't GOAT after all," then "GOAT!" again after every little thing, good or bad, that happens.

[Dipper 13]

So your saying your not impressed by WIlt being 4th in FGA on the sixers and being 5th in ppg in the whole league?

It's all about ppg, except when it's not. With the way this forum is picky in the application of certain stats, I am surprised Wilt even has has 3 votes at all.

[Warspite]

So your saying your not impressed by WIlt being 4th in FGA on the sixers and being 5th in ppg in the whole league?

It's all about ppg, except when it's not. With the way this forum is picky in the application of certain stats, I am surprised Wilt even has has 3 votes at all.

I will never cease to be amazed at how the Wilt detractor will look at his 50ppg season and say hes not eff enough and hurt his team (Any player who scores more than 30ppg is hurting his team IMHO) but then will come out and say he wasnt big enough in the offense in 67 when he avgs 24ppg and 8apg. Oh and hes shooting 70% from the field. So the guy is accounting for 40ppg but only 5 missed FGAs.


40ppg on 22FGAs is awsome. Something only Stockton or Magic could do.

Ill take the guy who basicly gives me a 90% chance the ball is going in the basket if he doesnt turn it over.

[RayBan-Sematra]

Yeah except Wilt in the 67 playoffs only averaged 22ppg on 54%TS
His "raw" assist numbers are obviously very impressive.

However if I adjust his numbers for lets say a more realistic 40mpg and adjust the league pace to how it was in lets say... 1996 his apg would drop down to 4.7.

So is 18 / 4.7apg on 54%TS really that impressive offensively?
Even assuming Wilt was allowed to play 48mpg in the modern era his numbers would only bump up to
22 / 5.6apg on 54%TS

Those numbers certainly aren't bad (and I do rank Wilt's Peak very highly) but comparing it to the numbers Shaq & Kareem put up during their Peak years I think they are clearly less impressive.

[ardee]

Yeah except Wilt in the 67 playoffs only averaged 22ppg on 54%TS
His "raw" assist numbers are obviously very impressive.

However if I adjust his numbers for lets say a more realistic 40mpg and adjust the league pace to how it was in lets say... 1996 his apg would drop down to 4.7.

So is 18 / 4.7apg on 54%TS really that impressive offensively?
Even assuming Wilt was allowed to play 48mpg in the modern era his numbers would only bump up to
22 / 5.6apg on 54%TS

Those numbers certainly aren't bad (and I do rank Wilt's Peak very highly) but comparing it to the numbers Shaq & Kareem put up during their Peak years I think they are clearly less impressive.

Right, and you obviously don't know that in those days assists were much harder to come by, and if the receiving player took a dribble the award was not assisted.

You can't just reduce stats according to pace like that. You think Jerry West would be a 18/5/5 player right now? That's worse than Wade who is already stinking it up. In a slower environment Wilt would have more time to use each possession better and consider more options. '67 Wilt in today's league would give you 25/15/5 on 65+% TS or more easily.

Oh, and there's that whole defense thing. Wilt blocked 8-10 shots a game. His defensive peak was far beyond anything Kareem or Shaq ever reached.

And he achieved all this against two of the greatest centers ever in Russell and Thurmond.

And it's funny that you don't use your reducing argument for Kareem.

Obvious agenda is obvious.

[Warspite]

Yeah except Wilt in the 67 playoffs only averaged 22ppg on 54%TS
His "raw" assist numbers are obviously very impressive.

However if I adjust his numbers for lets say a more realistic 40mpg and adjust the league pace to how it was in lets say... 1996 his apg would drop down to 4.7.

So is 18 / 4.7apg on 54%TS really that impressive offensively?
Even assuming Wilt was allowed to play 48mpg in the modern era his numbers would only bump up to
22 / 5.6apg on 54%TS

Those numbers certainly aren't bad (and I do rank Wilt's Peak very highly) but comparing it to the numbers Shaq & Kareem put up during their Peak years I think they are clearly less impressive.

Question #1 Why would you force Wilt to play fewer mpg? Whats your rational reason?

Question#2 if assist rate is 12% more today than it was in WIlts day why are they going down?

Question #3 Why would playing at a slower pace in a more half court game hurt Wilts play?

Question #4 If Wilt is playing in a less physical, less stressfull, less atheltic league like the current NBA why would his stats be hurt and why is he playing fewer mins?

Nothing in your post makes sense to me.

We all know that pace has the least effect on #1 options and that effect is almost null.

[knicksin2099]

Bird 86.

Magic 87.

Gimme those WELL WELL before ANY version of LBJ.

[Narigo]

1. MJ '91
2. Shaq '00
3. Wilt '67
4. LeBron '13
5. Kareem '72

[RayBan-Sematra]

Question #1 Why would you force Wilt to play fewer mpg? Whats your rational reason?

Because there is no player in recent history who was allowed by their coach to play 48mpg.
The limit for minutes played tends to hover around 40-44mpg.

I doubt Wilt would be allowed to play more then 44mpg in today's era especially since C's tend to be rested more then wings or guards.

Question#2 if assist rate is 12% more today than it was in WIlts day why are they going down?

Due to pace.
If you take a player from this era, give them Wilt's 67 AST% and adjust their numbers for 48mpg then they end up with an average of 5.6apg.

Question #3 Why would playing at a slower pace in a more half court game hurt Wilts play?

Probably because Wilt especially in his younger years was really built to succeed in a fast paced game.
Wilt's half court post game (from the video I have seen) never really impressed me that much.

In todays game with far more advanced defenses I think he would have a tougher time scoring then he did back in the run and gun 60's.

Question #4 If Wilt is playing in a less physical, less stressfull, less atheltic league like the current NBA why would his stats be hurt and why is he playing fewer mins?

Less physical? Sure.
Less stressful? Probably.

Less athletic? No.
The league today is far more athletic especially at the wing positions then it was back in Wilt's era.
Plus the h2h competition Wilt would face is much stronger then what he faced in the early 60's.

His stats would be hurt due to pace, better defenses and due to him playing in systems that probably would be far less self-centric then they were for him in the early 60's.

He would play less minutes because coaches don't want to risk injuring their star player by playing them heavy minutes let alone playing them during trash time.

[Gregoire]

Oh, Lebron has 6 votes, its progress...

[Warspite]

Nobody playing today is as atheltic as Russell and Wilt. There are no current NBA players who have qualified for the Olympics in another sport.

I was unaware that 1967 is early 1960s


Wilt played over 50 games in 1967 vs a HoF C who was on par or better than 2012 Howard.


Again i want a medical reason why Wilt would play fewer mins in a slower league. If anything Wilt would play more mpg today than he did in the 60s. The guy literaly has the stamina to play every min of every game and he can cheat as much as he wants because his man cant play.

I just refuse to believe that Kosta Koufus would wear down Wilt more than Willis Reed.

Wilt in 1967 lived in New York city and drove to Phildelphia and back after every game and practice. They traveled by train to LA.

Simple answer is that WIlt plays as many mpg as he wants. He is above the coach, he is above the team and for the most part he is above the league.

Just because you can take 4 steps between dribbles doesnt make you athletic. Theres a tape of Elgin Baylor taking off from the old college 3pt line and after 3 pump fakes in mid air shoots a lay up half way between the FT line and basket. He wasnt a dunker but he was just as athletic as I have seen.

[Gregoire]

Bad game for Bron... Maybe I shouldnt include him in this thread...

[nolunch]

While watching the live games and plays:

1. Shaq
2. MJ
3. LBJ
4. KAJ
5. Wilt

[Gregoire]

after todays game:
mj
shaq/ wilt
lebron
kareem