Peaks - Shaq vs. Hakeem

[Gregoire]

Shaq's peak is overrated. He had moments during his 3 year peak where he faltered big time in the playoffs. Back to back stinkers in Games 6 and 7 vs. Portland in '00. His subpar performance during the '02 WCSF vs. San Antonio. No such problem for peak Hakeem from 92-95. He had nothing remotely as poor as Shaq's '02 vs. SA. Nor anything remotely as poor as Shaq's '00 game 7 WCF performance with his season on the line facing elimination.

It should be noted in 94 and 95, Hakeem faced 3 HOF C's in Ewing, DRob and Shaq over the course of 17 games and was outscored in ZERO games.

Hakeem's runs in either '94 or '95 was superior to any of Shaq's. In '94 he became the only player in NBA history to lead a title team in every major statistical facets (ppg, rpg, bpg, asts, stls). Peak Shaq was never capable of performing all such facets for a playoff team. Nor leading such a unbalance playoff team, Hakeem was also the only player to more than double his 2nd best players' ppg average.

And in '95 which imho is the GOAT individual playoff run by a player to a title, the final HOFer he went through was Shaq himself.

Yes, good post. If we take into accoutn defense ( not even close) and opposition in playoffs, Dream have huge case. He outlpayed definetly great centers, Shaq... you know. Hakeem was one man band.

[Joao Saraiva]

I go with Shaq. But I can see a case for whoever peaks Hakeem. It's really close.

[nolunch]

I go with Shaq. But I can see a case for whoever peaks Hakeem. It's really close.

Hakeem's peak was great and underrated. Actually I would rank Shaq and Hakeem's 1-2 years peak over any player in playoffs, including MJ.

[Gregoire]

I go with Shaq. But I can see a case for whoever peaks Hakeem. It's really close.

Yes, it can go either way-after MJ, Hakeem maybe best peak playoff perfomer:
MJ
Hakeem/ Shaq
Bron

[JordansBulls]

I go with Shaq. But I can see a case for whoever peaks Hakeem. It's really close.

Hakeem's peak was great and underrated. Actually I would rank Shaq and Hakeem's 1-2 years peak over any player in playoffs, including MJ.

No, not really. Both Hakeem and Shaq actually had a player on there team who led in Win Shares in the playoffs at there peaks.

[PetroNet]

My MDE peaks:
1. MJ 90 or 91
2.Wilt 67
3. Shaq 00 and Lebron 13
4 Hakeem 93

hakeem wasnt even the most dominant player in the elague in '93, let alone ever. barkleys impact in 93 was FAR greater.

[Mr MoJo Risin]

Hakeem fairly easy here.

You gotta be kidding me here.

what!

When the game was on the line, Shaq was worried about setting high screens for Kobe. Hakeem is a whole different animal. You want the ball in his hands in crunch time. Hakeem teammates would be looking to get the ball into Hakeems hands. I pick Hakeem without blinking, I wouldn't even think twice about it. I would choose Hakeem with no hesitation.

[JordansBulls]

Hakeem fairly easy here.

You gotta be kidding me here.

what!

When the game was on the line, Shaq was worried about setting high screens for Kobe. Hakeem is a whole different animal. You want the ball in his hands in crunch time. Hakeem teammates would be looking to get the ball into Hakeems hands. I pick Hakeem without blinking, I wouldn't even think twice about it. I would choose Hakeem with no hesitation.

I'm not saying Hakeem isn't a good choice, but the fact you said fairly easy is kinda ridiculous.

[DreamShakeFTW]

Shaq's peak is overrated. He had moments during his 3 year peak where he faltered big time in the playoffs. Back to back stinkers in Games 6 and 7 vs. Portland in '00. His subpar performance during the '02 WCSF vs. San Antonio. No such problem for peak Hakeem from 92-95. He had nothing remotely as poor as Shaq's '02 vs. SA. Nor anything remotely as poor as Shaq's '00 game 7 WCF performance with his season on the line facing elimination.

It should be noted in 94 and 95, Hakeem faced 3 HOF C's in Ewing, DRob and Shaq over the course of 17 games and was outscored in ZERO games.

Hakeem's runs in either '94 or '95 was superior to any of Shaq's. In '94 he became the only player in NBA history to lead a title team in every major statistical facets (ppg, rpg, bpg, asts, stls). Peak Shaq was never capable of performing all such facets for a playoff team. Nor leading such a unbalance playoff team, Hakeem was also the only player to more than double his 2nd best players' ppg average.

And in '95 which imho is the GOAT individual playoff run by a player to a title, the final HOFer he went through was Shaq himself.

Well said.

/thread

[nolunch]

Shaq's peak is overrated. He had moments during his 3 year peak where he faltered big time in the playoffs. Back to back stinkers in Games 6 and 7 vs. Portland in '00. His subpar performance during the '02 WCSF vs. San Antonio. No such problem for peak Hakeem from 92-95. He had nothing remotely as poor as Shaq's '02 vs. SA. Nor anything remotely as poor as Shaq's '00 game 7 WCF performance with his season on the line facing elimination.

It should be noted in 94 and 95, Hakeem faced 3 HOF C's in Ewing, DRob and Shaq over the course of 17 games and was outscored in ZERO games.

Hakeem's runs in either '94 or '95 was superior to any of Shaq's. In '94 he became the only player in NBA history to lead a title team in every major statistical facets (ppg, rpg, bpg, asts, stls). Peak Shaq was never capable of performing all such facets for a playoff team. Nor leading such a unbalance playoff team, Hakeem was also the only player to more than double his 2nd best players' ppg average.

And in '95 which imho is the GOAT individual playoff run by a player to a title, the final HOFer he went through was Shaq himself.

1. Shaq was consistently double teamed in 00 Blazers series. In Game 7, he was allowed to take 9 shots in whole game. He scored half of his 18 pts in 4th quarter to overcome 13 pt deficit and led his team into NBA Finals. How come you have problem with his performance ?

2. In vs SAS series, under Phil's gameplan, Kobe was the 1st option in offense. Meanwhile, Shaq still averaged 20+ppg with FG 50+, 10+ rpg and 2+ bpg. How come you have problem with his performance ?

3. In 92-95, Shaq played good against peak Olajuwon one on one. Even in the swept of 95 NBA Finals, Shaq averaged 28 ppg with FG 59% while Olajuwon averaged 32+ppg with FG 48% and took 11 more shots per game. Besides that, Shaq averaged more rebounds, more assists and more blocks. How come you have problem with his performance ?

4. In 94 & 95, outscored ? MJ could score them too. Because he took more shots than them LOL.

5. I've said before, 94 & 95 Olajuwon had great run. I would rank his peak and Shaq's over MJ's though.

[Gregoire]

Shaq's peak is overrated. He had moments during his 3 year peak where he faltered big time in the playoffs. Back to back stinkers in Games 6 and 7 vs. Portland in '00. His subpar performance during the '02 WCSF vs. San Antonio. No such problem for peak Hakeem from 92-95. He had nothing remotely as poor as Shaq's '02 vs. SA. Nor anything remotely as poor as Shaq's '00 game 7 WCF performance with his season on the line facing elimination.

It should be noted in 94 and 95, Hakeem faced 3 HOF C's in Ewing, DRob and Shaq over the course of 17 games and was outscored in ZERO games.

Hakeem's runs in either '94 or '95 was superior to any of Shaq's. In '94 he became the only player in NBA history to lead a title team in every major statistical facets (ppg, rpg, bpg, asts, stls). Peak Shaq was never capable of performing all such facets for a playoff team. Nor leading such a unbalance playoff team, Hakeem was also the only player to more than double his 2nd best players' ppg average.

And in '95 which imho is the GOAT individual playoff run by a player to a title, the final HOFer he went through was Shaq himself.

Wery well said. Competition matters. Hakeem was awesome, best playoff run by a center ever.

[DayofMourning]

I think a lot of people misrepresent Hakeem's peak. It's always considered to be the years he won his championships. Houston wasn't a dominant team because of a lot of factors, Sampson getting hurt and players doing drugs being the most significant. If that finals team of '86 had stayed together, then you'd be viewing Hakeem in a whole different light. That team was very, very good, and the twin towers were amazing together. Sampson going down was one of the most tragic injuries in NBA history. It stopped Hakeem from going to a lot of Finals, and paved the way for the Lakers to extend their dominant '80s run.

[DayofMourning]

In the end, if Houston had maintained that team, then many would probably view Hakeem as the greatest center ever.

[JordansBulls]

In the end, if Houston had maintained that team, then many would probably view Hakeem as the greatest center ever.

Not sure about that. Everyone thought once they had Barkley and Drexler they would be in the finals the last 2 years vs Chicago.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

[quote="RayBan-Sematra"]He was the MVP of G7. He played very well in that game.
Also the series should have ended in G5 if his entire cast didn't choke in that game.[quote]

MVP on the basis of what exactly in that game 7, being unable to outrebound or outblock a gangly 6'6" SG in addition to being out scored/assisted/stolen by the same guy? Shaq wasn't even the most productive interior player in that game 7 considering Wallace dominated LA for the bulk of that game up to the closing moments.

And please spare me, the "he drew so much attention, that freed up opportunities for others" argument, Peak Hakeem and many other greats encountered that regularly in their playoff careers.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

Yeah. Stiffs like Peak Duncan, Peak KG, DPOY Mutombo & David Robinson.
That is way weaker competition then Prime Robinson & Ewing.


Lets also ignore that Shaq dominated Ewing in the 90's and significantly outplayed Hakeem in their overall h2h matchups from 93-97.

That stuff never happened. Shaq could only beat up on cupcakes!
Amazing how people twist things in their heads to suit their agendas.

Shaq couldn't outperform TD in the playoffs....EVER so he doesn't count. Mutumbo wasn't as good defensively as he was in the 90s, and it goes to show how overrated Shaq's title years if we talk of GOAT play were that he would allow himself at his peak to be beat out by 34 yr old Deke with fading athleticism, mobility on a all-D team.

KG? Shaq didn't even outperform him either in their '04 meeting, he had to DEFER, just like he did vs. the Spurs.

And before you talk of what Shaq did to Ewing, you don't acknowledge the road Hakeem had to go through just to face. A more talented PHX team and then Karl Malone who was a roadblock Shaq NEVER proved capable of going through in the playoffs. Any surprise Malone labelled him the worst PnR defender he ever played against.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

1. Shaq was consistently double teamed in 00 Blazers series. In Game 7, he was allowed to take 9 shots in whole game. He scored half of his 18 pts in 4th quarter to overcome 13 pt deficit and led his team into NBA Finals. How come you have problem with his performance ?

1. Oh cut the excuses for Shaq's shortcomings in that game 7. You know why I have a problem with it? Because if we're talking of GOAT level play, Hakeem did a LOT more in the same scenario....on a lesser team than what Shaq played on, on the road in hostile territory

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEGvKVNoJ8E[/youtube]

You can see he was doubled and even tripled everytime he touched the ball just like Shaq was. And had far more impact than Shaq did with his season on the line. He posted 23 pts, 17 rebs, 3 blks 9 asts 2 stls. He blocked 3 shots and altered many others. And he had to lead HOU back from a 0-2 deficit to force that game 7 whereas Shaq's team nearly blew their series.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

2. In vs SAS series, under Phil's gameplan, Kobe was the 1st option in offense. Meanwhile, Shaq still averaged 20+ppg with FG 50+, 10+ rpg and 2+ bpg. How come you have problem with his performance ?

3. In 92-95, Shaq played good against peak Olajuwon one on one. Even in the swept of 95 NBA Finals, Shaq averaged 28 ppg with FG 59% while Olajuwon averaged 32+ppg with FG 48% and took 11 more shots per game. Besides that, Shaq averaged more rebounds, more assists and more blocks. How come you have problem with his performance ? .

2. It wasn't Phil's gameplan to see him falter for the bulk of the '02 WSCF vs. SA...suffering from poor conditioning and being unable to close out games. If he's the MDE and GOAT peak, then why was he outperformed by TD by epic proportions in that series? What HOFer can claim to have outplayed/performed a peak 92-95 Dream

3. He played well, but if he's the MDE/GOAT as his worshippers claim, he should've had one series in his resume where he flat out destroyed/outplayed teams built around great Franchise star interior HOF rivals on his way to titles. Simply playing well and putting up impressive numbers in defeat would've never gotten MJ this so called GOAT praise. Instead what do I see in Shaq's career resume? Hakeem hoisting a Finals MVP while he wept in his locker room. Him being unable to defend a PnR 2 years straight as Mailman drove the ball down he and LA's throat. He sacrificed defensive effort to post these outwordly offensive averages he had in '98 vs. Utah. TD in only his 2nd year steamrolling LA on his way to a title.....and aren't we always told on Realgm Shaq was a inexperienced baby in the '95 Finals in his 3rd year?

And what else did he dominate? The aging remnants of the 90s.....that's what. Guys that weren't ever the face of any franchise.

[nolunch]

He was the MVP of G7. He played very well in that game.
Also the series should have ended in G5 if his entire cast didn't choke in that game.

MVP on the basis of what exactly in that game 7, being unable to outrebound or outblock a gangly 6'6" SG in addition to being out scored/assisted/stolen by the same guy? Shaq wasn't even the most productive interior player in that game 7 considering Wallace dominated LA for the bulk of that game up to the closing moments.

And please spare me, the "he drew so much attention, that freed up opportunities for others" argument, Peak Hakeem and many other greats encountered that regularly in their playoff careers.

In Game 7, Blazers did a great job in double teaming Shaq. Shaq did not have too many offensive opportunities in first 3 quarters. In the defensive end, Sabonis was standing outside the 3-pt line and Shaq had to leave the paint. Kobe did a great job on rebounding. Shaq led his team to overcome 13 pt deficit in 4th quarter. It's no doubt that Shaq and Kobe were MVP of the game. For Wallace, the matchups was too easy for him scoring and dominating. Shaq was surrounded and was not allowed to get the ball, then how could he be dominated ?

[nolunch]

Yeah. Stiffs like Peak Duncan, Peak KG, DPOY Mutombo & David Robinson.
That is way weaker competition then Prime Robinson & Ewing.


Lets also ignore that Shaq dominated Ewing in the 90's and significantly outplayed Hakeem in their overall h2h matchups from 93-97.

That stuff never happened. Shaq could only beat up on cupcakes!
Amazing how people twist things in their heads to suit their agendas.

Shaq couldn't outperform TD in the playoffs....EVER so he doesn't count. Mutumbo wasn't as good defensively as he was in the 90s, and it goes to show how overrated Shaq's title years if we talk of GOAT play were that he would allow himself at his peak to be beat out by 34 yr old Deke with fading athleticism, mobility on a all-D team.

KG? Shaq didn't even outperform him either in their '04 meeting, he had to DEFER, just like he did vs. the Spurs.

And before you talk of what Shaq did to Ewing, you don't acknowledge the road Hakeem had to go through just to face. A more talented PHX team and then Karl Malone who was a roadblock Shaq NEVER proved capable of going through in the playoffs. Any surprise Malone labelled him the worst PnR defender he ever played against.

1. I've no idea about the EVER things. Not to mention how bad Duncan was in 01 playoffs. Even in 02, Shaq had many injuries and a bit fat, he still produced similar stats comparing to Duncan.

2. Mutombo's defensive numbers don't lie. His defense was elite. In 03 Spurs vs Nets NBA Finals, Mutombo's defense still gave lots of trouble to Duncan.

3. KG ? If you really watched 04 playoffs, you should find who was really dominating both ends.