ATFL Eastern: (3) Quotatious vs. (6) Notanoob

[john248]

Starting Mullin for sure due to his catch and shoot ability, and he should be seeing more minutes really at SF; English can handle time as the back-up wings. English likes posting from the baseline and attacking the middle from the high post, and he'd probably see more room to do that with the bench guys. He can get away with using Buck as a starter where I think his minutes are just right, and Odom can be the 4th quarter guy if they really need some offensive help.

[Quotatious]

OK, so Quotatious is running his offense through Alonzo Mourning. Mourning will be passing the rock a ton and ISO'ing a lot. I'll wait until Quotatious regains his balance and equilibrium...

I guess it's too late now to sway you the other way, but I think that you overlooked one very important thing when you looked at my team's stretegy - my shot distribution. I said clearly that Zo would only take 10-12 shots, and I'd like to limit his touches and passes out of the post to the possible minimum. I wanted to AVOID running my offense through Zo. In fact, he was never exactly a volume scorer - he never took more than 15 FGA per game in any season of his career, so 10 or 12 shots shouldn't have been a problem for him. He actually took as few as 12.6 shots per game in the 1997-98 season, which is a part of the stretch that I chosen. The fact that he'd play a lot of minutes (second most after Kobe), is mainly because of his role on the DEFENSIVE end. Running my offense through Zo, who was a poor passer, and at the same time would be covered by Hakeem freakin' Olajuwon, would be the worst idea that I could possibly think of...

Q is using Alonzo the right way here. In an all-time league, Alonzo should be used in crossmatches against PFs or smaller Cs and as a finisher.

Yep, you're right here. I'd use him as a finisher, not as an ISO player (so in fact I WOULDN'T run my offense through him). I'd also LOVE to see Bosh switching on him on some pssessions, because Zo could've bullied the hell out of the Boshter with his huge strength advantage. That's the only ISO that Zo would execute. No iso's against Hakeem, it wouldn't be very effective. What I want him to do though, is to catch the ball (even while he's moving) in a deep inside position and immediately start his move towards the basket, without handling the ball. One dribble is the most that I'd like him to do.

That said, Christie/Miller/Mullin running those Princeton sets for a few minutes is pretty sweet. They should have great chemistry together, especially if Lamar is in with them. Amazing spacing through ball and player movement. Miller can bring Rollins out of the paint as well. Really well done.

Yeah, I think that could even give Hakeem some trouble, when he'd have to go out to the three point line and defend Miller who could shoot from there. It opens up the paint and allows my cutters to do damage there (mainly English and Kobe).

Vince Carter always did defend Kobe well, but with this being a younger Vince against a seasoned Bryant, I see Bryant getting his, especially in the mid-post. I'd rather see PP on Bryant to be honest.

Exactly, these are also my thoughts my as well.

Hakeem/Bosh/Rodman is a great combination in regards to defending Kobe/Billups coming off pick-n-rolls, however.

Yes, and unfortunately, there's not much to be done to counter that.

Chauncey is one of my favorite PGs in tourneys like these. I'm not sure how he posts up here with Zo/Buck in. He works as a floor-general/spacer though.

Well, Zo could knock down a midrange jumper if left relatively open, so he could go to the top of the key, and it creates some space fo Billups to post up. In the worst case, Buck can just clear out his position inside, and camp in the midrange area, or on the perimeter, and try to cut to the basket. I've got young Buck (his first three seasons in the league) and he was an excellent athlete then, with great finishing ability. He shot over 55% from the field (in fact, 58% FG and 60% TS for the first two seasons during this 1982-84 stretch), mainly because he took the easiest shots - layups, dunks and opportunity baskets, using his athleticism. He'd be an excellent cutter here.

Chauncey (Kobe and English as well, as they liked to post up), would have tons of space with Miller and Odom, or at least one of them, on the floor, because both of these bigmen were threats in terms of their outside shot, even from beyond the arc.

I question why Kobe is playing 7 minutes at PG. That's taking a load he doesn't need.

He needs that additional load, actually. That's because my concern was that Kobe would have to play the most minutes, and take the most shots on his team. Him only playing 28-30 minutes, like my other perimeter stars (Billups, and especially English/Mullin), would probably frustrate Mr. Bryant. Basically, I had to find a way to give all of my stars some decent playing time, and Vino taking some PG responsibilities for a few minutes didn't seem like a bad idea. I see that Notanoob wants to play Vince for 35 minutes also, and Pierce for 34, so I don't see how Kobe should play less. Kobe would have a chance to abuse a smaller defender like Mookie or Terry, if there was a switch on defense (but that's just an extra possibility, so don't worry about it as a part of my gameplan. I'm just trying to find some ways to gain an edge here).

Hakeem would be teaching Kobe the Dream Shake during warm-ups and Terry would pull him aside and say "Big Fella, what you doin?" And Hakeem would laugh and say "Don't worry Jet, I only teach him half."

Kobe doesn't need any teaching tho. His pride wouldn't allow him to mess with an opponent before tha game. I could see Kobe not leaving the arena at all before all of the 7 games of these series, and work on his game all the time.

First thing I notice is that Quotatious has got a real conventional team.

Yep, this was my intention when I started building my team here. I'm a sucker for old-school basketball, and toughness/work ethic/efficiency, in general, so that's why it is the way it is.

For the actual matchup now...one thing I've noticed in these games is that Zo always tends to get outplayed by superior centers. Now one should think, "umm...who doesn't get outplayed by superior players...that's why they're superior." True enough, but Zo always seemed to shrink in terms of his efficiency offensively. And defensively, in terms of overall #'s doesn't do much to affect these centers too (but it'd be hard to find someone that consistently stopped great centers anyway, so that's not a big gripe anyway). So to be FAIR though, Zo was a downright elite defender and Quotatious mentioned Zo's role wouldn't involve heavy isolation sort post plays. That's good.

To be fair, Zo greatly improved his defense in his prime in the late 90s, and 2000. He struggled against the top centers as a younger player in Charlotte, but later on he matured towards the end of the nineties in Miami, and became a true DPOY caliber defender. Obviously by that time guys like Hakeem or Ewing were old, but he didn't face them nearly enough in the regular season to believe that it might've affected his overall numbers for an entire season.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1246592

Here's a great post by colts18 about the defense of the top 5 centers of the 1990s, and you can see how much Alonzo's defense improved later in his career, compared to his Charlotte days. I think he'd do as good of a job against Hakeem as anyone, and his pride, toughness and tenacity, combined with his amazing physical strength and defensive instincts, would make it tough for the Dream. Olajuwon would get his, for sure, but I could see his efficiency not being very good.


Okay, I'd like to explain something - several guys (TMAC, Ronnymac, Ardee) raised concerns about Mullin and Odom being starters here, and Lamar playing more minutes - lemme explain myself here...My theory was that English and Mullin would play the same amount of minutes - 28 each, and both would see a lot of playing time with Kobe, Billups and Zo on the floor, so it doesn't matter who would be a starter. I'd like to begin the game with English on the floor, and then if turned out that my team didn't have enough spacing, I'd sub Mullin, Odom, or even both, on the floor.
Second thing - I gave Buck more playing time than Odom because of two things - number one, he was a starter his entire career, and Odom was a sixth man during the '09-'11 stretch - he started only 105 of his total 242 games played during these 3 seasons. That's 57% games played off the bench. The second thing is that Buck was an excellent offensive rebounder, while Odom clearly wasn't. I wanted to take advantage of Chris Bosh's unimpressive rebounding, and be physical with him. I think it's clear now why I'm starting Buck, not Odom.

Now something about Alex English - I chosen the '82-'84 version because even though, he scored more points, and may've been a bit better as a scorer in the mid-to-late 80s, he was an excellent help defender from 1982 to '84 (over 1 steal and almost 1.5 blocks per game), very athletic, and he was a lower usage player during that stretch. His efficiency from the field was excellent as well. He also averaged 5 assists per game during that stretch. To be honest, I like the synergy of my staring five with English better than with Mullin. Mully, on the other hand, seems tailor made to play more with my second unit (but he'd play a lot with Kobe, Billups and Mourning as well). Mullin was a better creator for others than English, despite his lower APG numbers, he was IMO a little more capable of running as a point forward.


Last thing here - my theory with regards to taking bench guys was that I wanted players who were actually coming off the bench in the real NBA game (Odom is a poster boy for what I'm talking about, coming off the bench for the majority of his appearances for the Lakers during that timespan), or even struggled to stay in the league in the beginning of their careers, and wouldn't have any problems with limited playing time, or limited role on the team. Let's take a look at my bench guys - Doug Christie didn't become a starter until his 5th season in the NBA, his first with the Raptors. He was a bench role player, at best, when he was with the Lakers and Knicks in the early-to-mid 90s. Brad Miller went UNDRAFTED from Purdue, and found his niche in the league in his 4th season. He only began to come to his own after the trade to the Pacers in 2002. He was coming off the bench for his first few seasons, and then also for 19 of his 72 games in the 2003-04 season (which is actually a part of the timespan that I chose.
Darrell Armstrong came off the bench for 35 of his 50 games during the '98-'99 season, when he was the 6th Man of the Year award, and became a starer in his SIXTH pro season in 1999-2000. He was 31 years old at that time.
Hell, even Chauncey Billups struggled for his first few seasons in the NBA.

Obviously Chris Mullin was a star, but even he was willing to come off the bench if needed !!!

What I was trying to do, and actually did, was to draft guys who lived and breathed basketball, lived in the gym, had great drive, work ethic, effort, commitment to defense and teamwork...Finally, I'm sure that my leader - Kobe, would respect those guys. He often talked about how he cannot relate to lazy people, so he'd have some workhorses here. Almost half of my team were late bloomers (Billups, Armstrong, Christie and Miller) .VERY late bloomers at that. I'm sure they'd appreciate the opportunity to play with, and against, all these legends here. I just didn't know how much weight the judges would put into things like chemistry and fit, but I think I did okay in those areas.

Heck, I think I have no chance right now, because I'm sure that Bastillon is another judge who will vote for a team with Hakeeem on the roster...

P.S.S I love Quotatious's posts and passion. Love to see guys that truly enjoy the game.

Maybe that's because of my new avatar?

[john248]

Now something about Alex English - I chosen the '82-'84 version because even though, he scored more points, and may've been a bit better as a scorer in the mid-to-late 80s, he was an excellent help defender from 1982 to '84 (over 1 steal and almost 1.5 blocks per game), very athletic, and he was a lower usage player during that stretch. His efficiency from the field was excellent as well. He also averaged 5 assists per game during that stretch. To be honest, I like the synergy of my staring five with English better than with Mullin. Mully, on the other hand, seems tailor made to play more with my second unit (but he'd play a lot with Kobe, Billups and Mourning as well). Mullin was a better creator for others than English, despite his lower APG numbers, he was IMO a little more capable of running as a point forward.

With the ball in Billups & Kobe's hands, I don't see the need to have a point forward when Mullin is readily available with more valuable shooting.

I do agree with Buck. It makes it real tough to go against him and Zo where Odom is a nice change of pace at the position.

This does look like a series that would go 6 or 7. Both teams are well built.

[bastillon]

Notanoob, can you tell us something about the lineups you're gonna play here? starting 5, min distribution, shot distribution. I don't know what to make of your team at all. it's just bunch of names out there.

[therealbig3]

I LOVE this matchup. Extremely close either way.

I think Notanoob has a very nicely balanced team. Obviously with Hakeem in the middle anchoring the D, but Bosh/Carter/Pierce are a trio of underrated defenders. Mookie was a very good defender too. Especially when facing Kobe, Carter and Pierce step their defense up and generally do a good job. Everyone in the starting lineup is a very mobile group of players that can cover a lot of ground. They're also extremely versatile...Bosh can cover up to 3 positions, Hakeem can cover 2 positions but was crazy athletic and could cover pretty much any other position on a switch, and both Carter and Pierce could cover up to 4 positions, depending on the opposing PF.

Offensively, that's a DREAM starting lineup (pun intended). Might be the best offensive lineup I've seen so far (well, that or ardee's team with Nash and Dirk together). Hakeem in the middle, Bosh spacing the floor and bringing a big man out of the paint, two very unselfish and very good shooting wings in Pierce and Carter, and then a solid PG with a very good 3pt shot. Everyone can handle the ball, everyone can shoot, everyone can pass, everyone is unselfish, and everyone can play off-ball. The talent is obviously there, but the fit is pretty awesome too. People may ask whether or not Pierce and Carter can co-exist...but Pierce did a really admirable job of shifting to a more off-ball role when Ray Allen came over, and he's always been an extremely capable off-ball player. Carter imo is actually one of the best off-ball players of all time. He loved coming off curls, he loved to post up, and he loved to spot up and shoot the 3. And imagine that team in the open court? Carter is going to have so many incredible finishes, but Pierce was pretty athletic in his younger days, Blaylock was quick and he forced TOs, and then you have two of the most mobile big men of all time in Bosh and Hakeem.

I can't really point to one weakness in Notanoob's starting lineup. It's probably my favorite starting lineup in the tournament so far. I honestly don't see a defense that can stop them, because everyone can shoot and pass, and the 3 best players (Hakeem, Pierce, and Carter) are all fantastic 1 on 1 scorers. I will say though, Quotatious's team does have Zo and Kobe, two guys that can do an admirable job 1 on 1...but English is a mismatch against whoever he's guarding, whether it's Pierce or Carter. And honestly, I don't care who's guarding Hakeem 1 on 1, I still think that's a mismatch and that he would go bonkers unless help was sent. And if help was sent, Notanoob has the shooters and the cutters and the finishers to make them pay.

Now on to the bench: I STILL love it, and it starts with Rodman. DUDE! You didn't go with super-crazy, rebounding dynamo Rodman...you went with kind of crazy, lockdown defender Rodman. A guy who was defending Michael Jordan and doing a good job. Early 90s Rodman when he was with the Pistons may have been the best man defender of all time. And you have him off the bench to throw at Kobe. And if you wanted, you could also play him at PF/C and match him up with Zo or Buck and take them completely out of the game, and let him go ape **** rebounding the ball, since he was still a DOMINANT rebounder back then (in fact, he was averaging almost 19 rpg in 92). Hakeem and Rodman together would mean lights out for whatever big men Quotatious throws out there, and that would REALLY hinder the guard play.

Outside of Rodman, you have Afflalo, a great 3 and D guy who has a decent history of matching up with Kobe in the past. Jason Terry, who was one of the best combo guards and 6th men in the game from 05-07. Great shooter and reliable ball handler, and he would do an admirable job of operating the PnP and PnR. He would work well with Bosh and Hakeem. And you have a good defensive big man to come in and anchor the D when Hakeem goes to the bench in Rollins, and you have Rodman's twin brother, Ron Artest from 09-11. Ron Artest was a very reliable outside shooter at this time. Now, I think his defense slipped off by this point, and it really sucks that he was so injury/suspension prone earlier in his career, because young Artest, young Rodman, and Hakeem together? Good night. Especially with Artest and Rodman getting under opposing players' skins. But 09-11 Artest was still a decent defender, and did do a very good job of defending Kobe in 09. I'd say that he would be another very good player to throw at Kobe. BTW, all the guys that could defend Kobe I'm assuming would also be used to limit English.

Really hard to find any flaws with Notanoob's team. Is there a weakness anywhere? Maybe offensively, if Rollins, Artest, and Rodman are all out there together, but like I said, Artest was actually a decent shooter at this time, and even if he went with an all-bench lineup, those 3 guys would still be next to Terry and Afflalo.

Next post, I'll talk about Quotatious's team.

[therealbig3]

Now, as much praise as I gave Notanoob's team...I did mention how close I thought this matchup was, and I still feel that way, because if anyone COULD matchup with them, Quotatious has many of those players.

I like the Kobe-Zo pairing, but offensively, it will be a lesser version of Kobe-Gasol, because Zo couldn't do nearly as many things as Gasol offensively. Defensively is where Zo gives you a lot of value, and you're really going to need him going up against Hakeem. I mentioned how even with Zo, I don't see anyone stopping Hakeem 1 on 1, so you need to send help. Kobe was generally pretty good at helping on a post player with his quick hands. You could also use whoever is guarding Blaylock or Bosh, since they're the least of the offensive threats on the team, to help out with Hakeem, guys like Buck Williams and Chauncey Billups. Buck Williams could check Hakeem for a little bit too, if you want to give Zo some rest on that side of the ball and let him guard Bosh...but Bosh would pull Zo out of the paint or would otherwise rain those midrange Js, so it's a tough task either way you go about it. It's definitely going to be hard to slow down Notanoob's offense, because he's done such a great job of spacing the floor with dangerous shooters at every position, but it can be done, and Quotatious has the personnel to do it.

Now, where I really love Quotatious's team is their offense. Because Chauncey Billups is as good of a PG as I could think of to pair with Kobe. Billups is really the most portable PG ever. Solid defense, good passer, good shooter, and he works off-ball. The Billups-Kobe-Mourning trio is going to be a nightmare to deal with, especially with English spreading you out.

And Quotatious really shines with his bench...although that may not be necessarily a good thing in a matchup like this. Odom/Mullin/Christie/Miller...wow, the passing, IQ, shooting, and defense of that squad is pretty awesome. They should probably start imo. Odom in for Buck, to kind of give Notanoob some of his own medicine with a PF that is defensively mobile and can also stroke the outside shot. Incredible passing too and he would work well with Zo (as well as with Kobe obviously). And I'll also further echo the sentiments made by other posters by saying that Mullin should also probably start, and give the starting unit another good passing forward as well as a dangerous outside shooter that spreads them out more than English would. Miller is an excellent big man to have off the bench, with his shooting and passing, as well as his defense. Christie, another 3 and D guy with smart passing. Really liking the synergy and the IQ of the bench guys, especially since Quotatious mentioned he'd be running Princeton and Triangle sets. I think Quotatious has a pretty unstoppable offensive team in his own right here, with smart passing, excellent shooting, and great fit, and his superior bench squad I think would come in and make a lot of runs when needed. But I'd point out that I think it's a coaching mistake to bring Odom and Mullin off the bench and play them so few minutes.

[therealbig3]

With all of that said, I'll go ahead and vote.

Vote: Notanoob

[Quotatious]

But I'd point out that I think it's a coaching mistake to bring Odom and Mullin off the bench and play them so few minutes.

Well, you know, there's so much talent on all those teams here that it's hard to find a way to give everyone as much playing time as you'd like to...When I took English in the last round, I knew that I'd have a problem with minutes allocation, but I thought that I need more talent on my team, compared to some of these other squads. In the beginning, I intended to start Mullin, and let him play about 32 minutes, and with Odom, I wanted to give him about 25-27 minutes, but my latter picks forced me to change that.

Good analysis, and it's hard to disagree with anything you said. I'm just happy that so many of you guys praised the outcome of my efforts to build a solid team. Going into this matchup, I expected maybe one or two judges to vote for my team, and suspected that most of them would say that it's close, but Notanoob has the edge. Now it seems that I'll unanimously lose these series even though every judge says that it'd take 7 games for my opponent to win. Now that I'm looking at it, I was right about taking a dominant center, because I'd likely get eaten alive if I didn't Alonzo, who could at least present a serious challenge to Hakeem. Honestly, Notanoob has to have one of, if not THE strongest team in this tournament. His team just doesn't have any weaknesses to exploit...I'd like to wish you well in your next matchup(s) Notanoob, and wish you to win this whole thing. You did an absolutely great job building your team. Thanks for the competition.

I think that Notanoob vs Ardee would be a great matchup in the finals.

I have no hopes of advancing to the next round, I'm already toast, I'm not gonna fool myself.

[therealbig3]

No, I get it, it's actually kind of hard to figure out what the best lineups might be. Sometimes, it takes a bunch of guys analyzing the teams to point out what might be the best lineups and minutes allocations.

Notanoob is probably the strongest team I've seen so far, if I had to pick right now. Every other squad I've seen, even if they had a guy like Magic or Jordan or some really insane pairings like Nash/Dirk, had some weakness that you could exploit. I really don't see an exploitable weakness in Notanoob's team. Offensively, spacing is definitely not an issue, because everyone can shoot. Selfishness is not an issue, because all of these guys are used to sacrifice and are more than willing to do what's best for the team. Passing is not an issue, because all of these guys are at least solid passers. Defensively, everyone is a good man defender and can cover ground and rotate and switch, and it's all anchored by one of the GOAT defenders, Hakeem. Where and how do you attack this team?

[therealbig3]

Now, one thing I would point out though, is with Vince Carter. Notanoob picked 99-01 Vince, and although you could argue that 00 and 01 were his two best years, 99 Carter was a rookie who didn't shoot a lot of 3s and didn't hit them at a high rate. 99-01 Carter was him at his most athletically explosive, and that's where a lot of the memorable high-flying finishes come from.

But personally, I think I would have gone with 05-07 Carter. He was still extremely athletic and explosive, and he had developed into a better passer, and he gave more consistent effort on defense (higher IQ player at this point as well). And he was still a very good outside shooter. He would probably have fit better onto this team, with Pierce and Hakeem, than 99-01 Carter imo. Still, 99-01 Carter was capable of good defense, especially when surrounded by veterans, and I always felt that his defensive issues were overblown anyway. Crazy length and athleticism, as well as strength...he could guard pretty much any wing when he gave the effort, and I don't see any reason why he wouldn't give the effort with this team. He wouldn't be asked to carry the offense, and there are veterans here that would make sure he would play defense.

[Quotatious]

But personally, I think I would have gone with 05-07 Carter. He was still extremely athletic and explosive, and he had developed into a better outside shooter, a better passer, and he gave more consistent effort on defense (higher IQ player at this point as well). He would probably have fit better onto this team, with Pierce and Hakeem, than 99-01 Carter imo. Still, 99-01 Carter was capable of good defense, especially when surrounded by veterans, and I always felt that his defensive issues were overblown anyway. Crazy length and athleticism, as well as strength...he could guard pretty much any wing when he gave the effort, and I don't see any reason why he wouldn't give the effort with this team. He wouldn't be asked to carry the offense, and there are veterans here that would make sure he would play defense.

I agree. What's funny is that we wanted Notanoob to specify which years of Carter he wants to take, ASAP, because he wasn't sure about it, and thus we had to wait for him to decide and couldn't start the playoffs. Ironically, it was me who suggested that he should go with '05-'07 Vince, because at this stage of his career he'd get along better with Paul Pierce than when he was younger. Then obviously I found myself having to face Notanoob in this matchup here. VC had to share the ball with Richard Jefferson, and they did okay, so that's why I'm sure that he'd also accept playing with the Truth. On the other hand, I could see some chemistry problems occuring if he went with '99-'01 Carter and '01-'03 Pierce.

[ThunderDan9]

Well, Rodman and Artest might go into self-destruct mode. Artest is not that desruptive defensive force any more.
Carter and Pierce might not get along perfectly.
Pierce is past his prime - I see that he is still a terrific player, and I understand the decision to pair a more mature version of him with high-flying Air Canada, but still...
One last thought: even with Pierce handling the ball, Mookie seems strange in this league as a full-time starting PG. I understand that his three-point shooting meshes well with Hakeem, and is a good defender, but still. I see a significant edge for Billups here - especially paired with Kobe in the backcourt, that may be exploited.

Very well balanced, great team... I like the Pierce-Bosh-Olajuwon synergy... but I thought Q would get a vote or two. When i try to visualize the teams, I see Billups-Kobe-Mullin-etc. (with Zo in the post, English, Odom, Miller coming from the bench) SCORING, SCORING and SCORING, while giving everyone a fight on the defensive end as well.

Yes, it's close. Probably Notanoob in 7 (with a heroic Hakeem performance).

[Laimbeer]

I vote for Notanoob because Dream is obviously >>> Kobe. Sorry Quotatious, but it couldnt be more simple or obvious.

In all seriousness Im interested to see how each guy sets his lineup/strategy for this matchup. We've seen Kobe/Truth go head to head irl and it will be interesting to me to see if either guy wants to try and get that same matchup here.

There's a lot of truth to your green font, at least in terms of realgm perception. I suspected Quotatious was in trouble as soon as I saw Kobe at the top of his list versus Hakeem. Know your audience.

[therealbig3]

I vote for Notanoob because Dream is obviously >>> Kobe. Sorry Quotatious, but it couldnt be more simple or obvious.

In all seriousness Im interested to see how each guy sets his lineup/strategy for this matchup. We've seen Kobe/Truth go head to head irl and it will be interesting to me to see if either guy wants to try and get that same matchup here.

There's a lot of truth to your green font, at least in terms of realgm perception. I suspected Quotatious was in trouble as soon as I saw Kobe at the top of his list versus Hakeem. Know your audience.

Kind of an insulting statement, since literally nobody used that as their reasoning and everybody instead spent extensive time breaking down the matchup.

But whatever floats your boat.

[The Infamous1]

Lamar odom is like the perfect 6th man

[Narigo]

Looks like I face Notanoob in the next round

[Texas Chuck]

I vote for Notanoob because Dream is obviously >>> Kobe. Sorry Quotatious, but it couldnt be more simple or obvious.

In all seriousness Im interested to see how each guy sets his lineup/strategy for this matchup. We've seen Kobe/Truth go head to head irl and it will be interesting to me to see if either guy wants to try and get that same matchup here.

There's a lot of truth to your green font, at least in terms of realgm perception. I suspected Quotatious was in trouble as soon as I saw Kobe at the top of his list versus Hakeem. Know your audience.

My comment in Green was solely for Quotatious' benefit and I have no doubt he got the joke.

I will put in my actual vote a little later today. I realize this matchup may be decided by now, but I want to give my feedback. I jumped the gun a bit on the 1st two matchups so I intentionally waited to see all the discussion to be made by the GM's.

Preview: this was one of the tougher series for me to pick.

[ronnymac2]

OK, so Quotatious is running his offense through Alonzo Mourning. Mourning will be passing the rock a ton and ISO'ing a lot. I'll wait until Quotatious regains his balance and equilibrium...

I guess it's too late now to sway you the other way, but I think that you overlooked one very important thing when you looked at my team's stretegy - my shot distribution. I said clearly that Zo would only take 10-12 shots, and I'd like to limit his touches and passes out of the post to the possible minimum. I wanted to AVOID running my offense through Zo. In fact, he was never exactly a volume scorer - he never took more than 15 FGA per game in any season of his career, so 10 or 12 shots shouldn't have been a problem for him. He actually took as few as 12.6 shots per game in the 1997-98 season, which is a part of the stretch that I chosen. The fact that he'd play a lot of minutes (second most after Kobe), is mainly because of his role on the DEFENSIVE end. Running my offense through Zo, who was a poor passer, and at the same time would be covered by Hakeem freakin' Olajuwon, would be the worst idea that I could possibly make...

Haha I know man, you did a thorough job of explaining Zo's role. I was just joking around. Sorry for the confusion.


I followed the draft a little bit and I remember seeing your original starting lineup of Mourning/Odom/Mullin/Bryant/Billups, and I remember thinking "I love it. So balanced, so unselfish, amazing spacing — It works." I get why you took the other guys you took, and I get the minutes distributions, and I get the narrative about finding guys with that underdog mentality to put next to Kobe. I think Kobe would love playing with that team. I think anybody would love playing with that team. It looks like a real team.

You faced a very, very difficult opponent here though. Quite frankly, it's not about Hakeem. I mean, Hakeem is a constant, a guy any time can rely on, just like Kobe. Hakeem and Kobe and other top-10ish guys are the boring people in these tourneys.

But I think Dennis Rodman (The SF/PF hybrid version) and Paul Pierce (Post Big-3) are like, two of the best players to get in drafts like this because they are super talented, yet with their skillsets, they mesh with just about any type of team, be it a team anchored by an all-time C or a PG or even another wing creator. They are extremely portable. Especially Pierce.

You built a great team though man, and for doing this for your first time, you definitely understood how to build a real team instead of just a collection of talent. I would have rooted for your squad.

[Texas Chuck]

First let me echo Ronny's sentiments about Quotatious building perhaps the most realistic "team" in that he has bench guys who we know would thrive in their roles without nearly the worries of egos faced by most teams. I think there is a real tangible benefit to that. Its obviously up to each of the judges to see if that advantage offsets the potential talent deficit he faces as a result of that. I liken it a lot to International basketball where the sum of the American team's talent is vastly superior to that of every single opponent yet several teams are quite competitive because of their advantages in being a "team". I salute you for doing this knowing it was a risk.

Regarding Q's team:

Why is Mullin playing < 30 mpg? IMO he's your 2nd best and 3rd most important player. Id find a way to get him on the court more.

I love the idea of the Armstrong/Christie backcourt when JET is running pg. I think JET is a terrific player but he's not a true pg and Armstrong and Christie can really be disruptive to the offense when he's in the game.

Id be tempted to start Odom. I like both big pairings better when crossed. I want to make sure Dream is having to really guard somebody and isnt free to roam. He will kill you especially with your limited shooting among your starters.

Regarding N's team:

Id love to see Truth or Vince coming off the bench and getting Rodman into the starting lineup at SF. Makes your defense that much more ridiculous and would really help on the boards where Bosh is a liability. Problem is I'd rather start Pierce, but I dont like him at the 2. Im concerned about scoring off your bench. its JET and nobody.

Love the unit you can put on the floor defensively to get key stops. And then you can put JET in for Mookie and have a great offensive unit for end of game possessions.

Hate that you don't have a true backup pg. You have some decent playmakers but no great ones and I think it could hurt you at times to not have a true floor general on the roster.

I dont love the Dream/Vince/Truth big 3. I feel like you dont quite get everything out of the perimeter guys here.

I think this is a close series, but I think notanoob can put together both the best offensive 5 and the best defensive 5 and in Truth they have a closer to go to.

notanoob in 7.

[O_6]

I hate to jump on Quoatatious for the same thing everyone else is because he's a great poster but...

4. Chris Mullin (90-92)
5. Lamar Odom (09-11)
6. Buck Williams (82-84)
7. Brad Miller (02-04)
8. Doug Christie (01-03)
9. Darrell Armstrong (99-01)
10. Alex English (82-84)

Should've stuck with your gut.

I also think you should have started Mullin/Odom. You drafted English in the 10th round, you drafted Mullin in the 4th round. You clearly were aiming to start Mullin until that final round or two when you saw English might've been available. Now don't get me wrong, English was a great player and I think some here are underrating him because of his lack of 3pt range. But Mullin's range and shooting just works better with a backcourt of Kobe/Billups imo. English would also make a fantastic scorer off the bench. I do think you made a mistake going with English over Mullin, and because you were going up against a loaded team it ended up costing you.

Odom vs. Buck is a much closer choice. I really have no problem going with Odom as a 6th man. Either one as a starter works for me since both would get minutes. Buck is too powerful for Bosh and Odom is a very unique ball-handler who can cause problems for Bosh. I think Buck starting is fine, especially since he can check Hakeem at times.

At the end of the day I think Hakeem > Zo vs. Kobe > Pierce is what cost you.

Peak Hakeem is the most respected player on this board because of his complete package and clutch ability. The entirety of his career might be overrated ('87-'92?) but his Peak form is just so utterly complete. In this project there are ways to take advantage of almost every player through matchups or schemes... except Hakeem and MJ. Kareem and Shaq are the only Centers who can keep up with Hakeem in this project. I have Ewing and Quotatious had Mourning, Hakeem was on another level.

I was able to overcome my Shaq > Ewing problem in the 1st round because Kevin Durant was just better and fit my team better than Grant Hill. I don't think your Kobe > Pierce or Carter edge is quite as decisive as my Durant > Hill edge was. We've seen Pierce go head to head with Kobe and play well enough to lead his team to an NBA championship. That means a ton in this project. We've seen Hakeem score on everyone and we've seen Zo struggle with the other HOF Centers at times. Even though '98-'00 Zo was a monster, I just think Hakeem is respected too much for you to win this series.

Both teams are very good. I think Notanoob can make a deep run.