2013-14 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

Durant_Knows · Post #21 » by **Durant_Knows** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:06 pm

Okay, I'm a Durant homer, BUT...

There is NO plausible way that after the first 82 games of this season that you can say Lebron has been more "impactful" than Durant this season.

Literally impossible.

This is a thread about 13-14 not who's better or who has the bigger legacy.

Post #22 » by **Quotatious** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:55 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:I like your lists, but I'd really like to nudge you in the direction of giving Curry's spot to Noah. I'm not usually one for narratives, but that Bulls team was dead in the water in early December. They lost Rose, they lost Deng, and at one point they had a 10 game stretch where they went 1-9 and lost to the Jazz, Bucks, and Pistons. But from January 1st to February (something, hoping someone can help me out with this date) they had the best record in the entire league despite having one of the worst offenses. I think leadership is generally overrated, but the turnaround that Bulls team went through is frankly unlike anything I've ever seen,and clearly Noah's passion was the driving force. And while he's not a scorer, he has turned himself into an offensive hub and has proven to be the best passer and ball handler at his position by a comfortable margin. His season has been nothing short of sensational.

The Warriors, by contrast, have largely disappointed this season. Many were predicting they'd be a top 4 team in the West. While a lot can be explained away with injuries and poor bench play, I didn't really see Curry stand out this season. Not to say he wasn't great, but have we learned anything new about him this season? Was he noticeably more effective than last year? I think we might have to draw a distinction between a "good" season and an "impressive" one.

Yeah, the Bulls (and Nets) turnaround from the beginning of 2014 to the end of the regular season was pretty amazing (Bulls were 12-18 in 2013, 36-16 in 2014, 48-34 overall, and Nets 10-21 in 2013, and 34-17 in 2014, 44-38 overall), but I absolutely wouldn't call the Warriors' season "largely disappointing". I think them not being able to get a top 4 seed doesn't mean much, because they finished just three games behind Houston and Portland, with three of their starters playing less than 70 games (Iggy played 63, Bogut 67 and Lee 69), plus they had the fourth highest SRS in the West, and in the entire league, better than the Rockets and Blazers, so their expected W/L was slightly better than these two teams. Just a matter of not being able to close out a few games, I believe (like the two-point OT loss to the Thunder on November 29th, or the recent two point OT loss after a fantastic game against Portland on April 13th). I think we can assume it was just a bad luck.

I think this regular season was actually a success for them, considering all those things that I've just talked about (5.15 SRS this season, compared to just 1.32 last year), and I think that Curry clearly improved individually, as well. Less minutes per game, slightly higher scoring average, scoring efficiency, became more of a facilitator, too (higher APG, but also higher TPG, but with his assist/turnover ratio being basically the same as it was last year, on a bit higher usage, you have to say that it's a slight improvement), more productive per minute, too as you can see by his much higher metrics like PER and WS/48 (21.3 to 24.1 improvement in PER, and 18.0 to 22.5 WS/48). Looks much better in RAPM, too. He was a success in virtually every area this season. His defense looks much worse in DRAPM this year that it did a year ago - that's pretty much the only negative thing you can say about him. I'd say that his own personal improvement went hand in hand with his team's improvement, too.

ronnymac2 · Post #23 » by **ronnymac2** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:36 pm

Preliminary...

LeBron at 1 and KD at 2. (KD is my MVP)

3/4/5 is decided among Stephen Curry, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, and Carmelo Anthony...

MAYBE (and mind you, some of these are stretches)...Joakim Noah, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, Dwight Howard, and the stretchiest of all, Al Jefferson.

If the Bobcats beat Miami...c'mon...

JordansBulls · Post #24 » by **JordansBulls** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:48 pm

What's the argument for Lebron over KD this year if KD had the best stats in the league all year and finished with a better record? Only way for him to overtake him is a much better playoffs.

ardee · Post #25 » by **ardee** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:14 pm

Yeah this year I just don't see the argument for LeBron at no. 1 during the regular season. He had some really nasty stretches while KD was basically in fifth gear all the time while he was playing without another creator for almost half the season.

fallacy · Post #26 » by **fallacy** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:39 am

Assuming it's only this season, there is no legitimate way you can put Lebron over Durant.

1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Griffin
4. Noah
5. Love/Cp3/Westbrook/Harden/Curry/AD

You can put any of those at 5 and i'd be fine with it. Top 4 are set though

Plus after 1 game of the playoffs against a top 2 playoffs defense, Durant still looks like the best player

Jaivl · Post #27 » by **Jaivl** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:54 am

1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Curry
4. Griffin
5. Love

HM:

Paul (would've been #3 if he played 80 games).
Noah (came really close).
Dirk (same as Noah).

ceiling raiser · Post #28 » by **ceiling raiser** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:11 pm

At the moment (obviously playoffs could change things a bit):

1/2) LeBron/Durant
3) Curry
4) Griffin
5) Aldridge

CP3 would figure into the top 2 or 3 if he didn't miss any games (probably 3). Westbrook would be up there too.

HM: Dwight, Harden, Love, Conley, Duncan

EDIT: Put LeBron/KD on the same level.

ardee · Post #29 » by **ardee** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:43 pm

Can any of the guys who have LeBron at 1 explain their choice?

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Post #30 » by **Quotatious** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:55 pm

ardee wrote:Can any of the guys who have LeBron at 1 explain their choice?

I'd love to see the reasoning behind it, too. I guess it's based solely, or predominantly, on RAPM though.

For example fpliii - I respect his opinion a ton, I'd really like to see him breaking it down.

ceiling raiser · Post #31 » by **ceiling raiser** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:58 pm

Quotatious wrote:
ardee wrote:Can any of the guys who have LeBron at 1 explain their choice?

I'd love to see the reasoning behind it, too. I guess it's based solely, or predominantly, on RAPM though.

For example fpliii - I respect his opinion a ton, I'd really like to see him breaking it down.

Not a huge gap, and it's just a preliminary list. I'm perhaps giving too much credit to non-box score offensive contributions.

I might swap them though even as of now, because LeBron's shot wasn't falling for 90% of the year.

Post #32 » by **Quotatious** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:08 pm

fpliii wrote:Not a huge gap, and it's just a preliminary list. I'm perhaps giving too much credit to non-box score offensive contributions.

I might swap them though even as of now, because LeBron's shot wasn't falling for 90% of the year.

Thanks, and yeah, LeBron's outside shot hasn't been as good as it was last season - his midrange jumper, especially (4% dropoff on 16-23 feet long twos, and almost two percent on threes), but he's improved his post game even further, and now shoots even much better on close shots (everything from at-rim, where he's probably the best finisher ever, and out to 10 feet - about 10% better than last year - that's a huge improvement), so to be honest, I wouldn't look at it the way you do - his TS% is even higher than it was last year, and his jumper has historically been rather shaky - now it seems that his midrange returned to where it was in 2009, and a bit better than 2010. Long midrange, that is. His 3-ball is noticeably better though, so it's still an overall improvement. You can't have everything - they say...Really, LBJ is putting up historically great numbers, he's basically in the same category as Barkley and Dantley, as a hyperefficient, high volume scorer, but with his other great qualities offensively, like his playmaking and superior outside shot, he's even better than just pure percentages suggest.

rich316 · Post #33 » by **rich316** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:20 pm

Yeah, as of right now Durant is #1, Lebron is #2. I kind of think of Player of the Year as the regular season + postseason MVP, so as the PS has just started, the consensus regular season MVP starts out on top.

Arman_tanzarian · Post #34 » by **Arman_tanzarian** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:24 am

Now by the criteria. Is there a discernible difference between "player of the year" or "best player in the league". If it just player of the year, then to me it's the guy who was the MVP and had the best RS, which is kd. If it's best player in the league, it's who I and most others on here believe is still the best player in the league. Durant has a chance to snatch this mantle but it won't be after 82 games. It'll be right now.

Jaivl · Post #35 » by **Jaivl** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:50 am

Player of the Year. The name says it all. Not "best player on the league this year".

E-Balla · Post #36 » by **E-Balla** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:07 pm

I have (pre playoffs):

KD
Lebron
Curry
Love
Melo

With Blake, LMA, and Harden having chances to break into the top 5. Paul might but he has to dominate.

Post #37 » by **Texas Chuck** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:51 pm

It's good to see Noah get at least a little love around here. He's been doing this for years its just people are finally recognizing him for it. That team never has its star, an MVP, is always without other key pieces, dumping Deng this year, and Noah just keeps leading his team to places they have no business going. He plays hurt, he plays hard, he plays smart, he plays well. He absolutely belongs in the discussion with anyone not named Durant or Lebron. And Curry continues to get way way too much love. I get he's a GOAT level shooter and one of the best offensive players in the league, but lets slow down a bit with him.

KD
Lebron
Noah
Griffin (I don't like him, but give the man his due, he was tremendous this year)
Duncan (I know I will be alone here, but once again he's the best player(and yes he's still better than TP) on the best team.

NinjaSheppard · Post #38 » by **NinjaSheppard** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:55 pm

Can someone explain the Melo ranking?

My mind is just blown on that one.

Post #39 » by **Doctor MJ** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:48 pm

ardee wrote:Traditionally, we start the thread with the Playoffs and then continue discussing until the end of the Playoffs before voting right after it.

This is a good year, a great year actually.

I think for now, 1 and 2 are locks.

I see Griffin, Paul, Curry, Harden, Noah, Dirk and possibly Duncan who can contend for 3, 4 and 5. 'Melo and Love if everyone flops in the Playoffs like last year.

Thanks for getting the ball rolling ardee!

For those not familiar. We will do the voting after the playoffs. At a certain point I'll ask for people to specifically say if they want a vote, and if they've been contributing sincerely they'll get one.

Post #40 » by **Doctor MJ** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:53 pm

My take at this point?

There's Durant, and then there's everybody else. Like most I had LeBron #2 in my MVP list, but it was basically a tiebreaker thing between him and the guys below him. Those that rank Durant & LeBron as close to this point I think are going less off of what we've actually seen this season and more based on what they assume LeBron will give us when it's all on the line.

In the end though it shouldn't matter much. If LeBron does indeed play as his peak self through a stellar playoff run, that's what I'll be focusing on just like those who already rate LeBron highly. Of course, in doing this, I am assuming that if LeBron & Miami really disappoint come playoff time, people will stop giving LeBron the benefit of the doubt.

As far as the other guys on my mind: Curry, Love, Harden, plus the Clipper duo. The duo, if the Clippers really prove legit and win the whole thing, I could see them taking 2 of the top 3 spots.