2014-15 All-Season Awards Voting Thread (Deadline today, check voter pool if not sure you're in)

[Dr Spaceman]

POY
1. Cp3
2. Steph


Offensive POY
1. Steph
2. Cp3

Erm, would you mind explaining your criteria here? I'm actually balking at what would lead you to having Paul as POY despite seeing Curry as the better offensive player.

[Clyde Frazier]

Ended up not having wifi while traveling, so these write ups are essentially stat-less, but fall in line with stats i've been looking at all year.

Player of the year

1) Curry - As I said in a thread a few days ago, curry was an offensive savant this season, and that played a major role in leading the warriors to 67 wins and the championship. Phenomenal efficiency on decent volume along with excellent PG skills is a hard combo to match. Curry's ability to create his own shot and hit 3s off the dribble is unmatched in the league. When you have a guy who can hit shots most other players can't even get off, the opposition's in trouble. Didn't let a few bad shooting nights in the post season deter him from playing his way, and in the end it all worked out.

2) LeBron - To put it simply, I don't think any other player in the league could've taken that cavs team as it deteriorated to game 6 of the finals. The amt of energy exerted was off the charts. Firmly believe what became the "i have to do everything" game plan was the only way to keep the finals competitive, and he succeeded beyond what most people expected. He still had a very good reg season, just not by his standards. I do think he deserves some leeway as developing chemistry with a brand new team isn't easy. I also don't really fault him for the issues with love, as kyrie seemed to adapt to playing with him just fine.

3) Harden - Really feel like harden and paul are 3A/3B here, but i'll give harden his due for having a pretty incredible reg season, and best post season of his career. While his style of play was a little similar to lebron's carry job, it was much cleaner. His ability to break down defenses and make the right decisions finding open guys consistently was really impressive. He continued that through the playoffs, and even though I have serious issues with the way he draws fouls, it isn't his fault if they keep calling them.

4) Paul - By the end of the reg season, it was clear that paul's performance this year was underrated at not talked about enough. Statistically it was really impressive. He made that even more evident in the first round against san san, which obviously shouldn't have been a first round series. His determination to lead his team to victory after getting injured was no doubt impressive. Can't really blame him for the flameout against houston as he played well, but his season ends with another disappointing out in the playoffs.

5) AD - His skill set for a big is unique and so effective, it's scary that he's still this young. Amazing reg season statistically, and i marveled at what i was watching in the playoffs. It got to a point where he was just taking one dribble and going straight to the rim. All the warriors could do is keep fouling. Sure, they wore him down, but the guy's still an ~80% FT shooter and was knocking them down.

HM westbrook, right there with AD

OPOY

1) Steph Curry - explained in POY

2) Harden - explained in POY

3) Chris Paul - explained in POY

DPOY

1) Andrew Bogut - Don't really care that he didn't play the last 2 games of the finals. Kerr made that decision, and it ended up working out. His ability as a rim protector and fitting into GSW's defensive scheme was integral to being the top defense in the league. Better on/off rating than draymond this season as far as I remember. Sure, you'd like to see him play more min, but I think he was the difference maker this year.

As an aside, i'm surprised how many broadcasters / analysts don't realize that bogut passes up on a lot of shots because he can't extend his arm all the way up. this is most evident in looking at his FT shooting pre injury and post injury. He was in the 60% range pre injury, and has dropped down to 45% since. Kind of amazing that he's still successful in the league.

2) Draymond Green - Became one of the most versatile defenders in the league, and did it consistently through RS and PS, leading them to the championship.

3) Kawhi Leonard - Right there with draymond, just didn't play as many games, and obviously didn't have the post season run he had

ROY

1) Wiggins - Voters don't really take wins into account when voting for ROY, and I tend to agree with them as the best players are typically drafted by bad teams. Really started to turn it around in the 2nd half of the season, and showed a lot of promise for the future.

2) Mirotic - I know he didn't play well in the playoffs, but then again i'm not sure he was given the best opportunity to succeed. Super talented player who's very comfortable with the ball for his size.

3) Noel - Really inefficient, even for a rookie big. Obviously defense will be his calling card anyway, as he was pretty effective in only his first season.

Most Improved

1) Jimmy Butler - never expected him to become such a consistent scoring option and playmaker -- time for the knicks to max him out and make chicago pay! ::lol::

2) Gobert - I agree with most people that the criteria for this award is all over the place, and i'm not a big fan of it. Gobert's play post kanter trade can't be overlooked, though. Great defensively and adequate offensive game.

3) Draymond Green - Saw flashes of similar play last year, but he just took it to a new level this year.

6th man

1) Isaiah Thomas - Going with the typical scoring punch off the bench, but I think he's deserving. Very talented player, and was key in helping get the celtics to the playoffs.

2) Andre Igoudala - Do it all impact beyond the box score player. Adapted well to his bench role after starting his whole career. Helped keep GSW above water with the 2nd unit.

3) Lou Williams - Similar season to thomas. Do think there's something to being forced to take late shot clock shots bringing his efficiency down.

Coach of the year

1) Steve Kerr - For a first year coach, his decision making was just excellent seeing that team through from start to finish. Gained their respect quickly, which couldn't have been easy after jackson left. Just an amazing job.

2) Mike Budenholzer - Did the unexpected, would've voted him COY for RS only

3) Brad Stevens - Got the most out of a roster full of mid to end of the rotation guys. Doubt many other coaches could've gotten that team to the playoffs.

Skipping exec of the year

[trex_8063]

POY
1. Cp3
2. Steph


Offensive POY
1. Steph
2. Cp3

Erm, would you mind explaining your criteria here? I'm actually balking at what would lead you to having Paul as POY despite seeing Curry as the better offensive player.

Um, defense?

[GSP]

POY
1. Cp3
2. Steph


Offensive POY
1. Steph
2. Cp3

Erm, would you mind explaining your criteria here? I'm actually balking at what would lead you to having Paul as POY despite seeing Curry as the better offensive player.

Um, defense?

This..... As i said in the post tho i see offense as a bit of a tossup. Cp3 has a significant edge on the other end. I see Curry as basically average in a very strong Ron Adams system while Cp3 is top 3-5 at the position. He was basically the best defensive player on his team. I cant even fathom Steph playing a role in making a flawed defense like the Clippers average

[Doctor MJ]

Votes are tallied. Updating with more formal results award by award now.

POY

Code: Select all

Player            1st   2nd   3rd   4th   5th   Points  Shares
1. Steph Curry    17    1     0     0     0     177     0.983
2. LeBron James    0    9     5     4     0     100     0.556
3. James Harden    0    6     7     3     0      86     0.478
4. Chris Paul      1    2     5    10     0      79     0.439
5. Anthony Davis   0    0     1     1    14      22     0.122
6. R. Westbrook    0    0     0     0     3      3      0.017
7. Blake Griffin   0    0     0     0     1      1      0.006 

OPOY

Code: Select all

Player            1st   2nd   3rd   Points Shares
1. Steph Curry    17    1     0     88     0.978
2. James Harden    1   10     5     40     0.444
3. Chris Paul      0    7     8     29     0.322
4. R. Westbrook    0    0     3      3     0.033
5. LeBron James    0    0     2      2     0.022


DPOY

Code: Select all

Player            1st   2nd   3rd   Points Shares
1. Draymond Green 10    5     1     66     0.733
2. Kawhi Leonard   6    9     2     59     0.656
3. Rudy Gobert     0    1     9     12     0.133
4. Andrew Bogut    1    0     4      9     0.100
5. Jimmy Butler    1    0     0      5     0.056
6. Tony Allen      0    1     1      4     0.044
7. Tim Duncan      0    1     0      3     0.033
(tie) K. Middleton 0    1     0      3     0.033
9. Andre Iguodala  0    0     1      1     0.011


I decided to give from this point on. I'm hoping we later do an OPOY/DPOY project where shares get tallied historically like we did with the RPOY. I don't think such a think makes sense for other awards.

ROY

Code: Select all

Player            1st  2nd   3rd   Points
1. Nerlens Noel   8    1     3     46   
2. Andrew Wiggins 2    6     3     31   
3. N. Mirotic     2    5     2     27   
4. Elfrid Payton  0    0     2      2 
5. B. Bogdanovic  0    0     1      1 
(tie) J. Clarkson 0    0     1      1 


MIP

Code: Select all

Player            1st  2nd   3rd   Points
1. Rudy Gobert    7    1     1     39
2. Jimmy Butler   2    8     1     35
3. G. Hayward     2    0     2     12
(tie) Whiteside   1    1     4     12
5. Draymond Green 0    1     1      4
6. Anthony Davis  0    1     0      3
7. Antetokounmpo  0    0     1      1
(tie) H. Barnes   0    0     1      1
(tie) Middleton   0    0     1      1


6MOY
1. Andre Iguodala 0.891
2. Tristan Thompson 0.527

COY
1. Steve Kerr 0.800
2. Mike Budenholzer 0.600

EOY
1. David Griffin 0.543
2. Bob Myers 0.457

[ceiling raiser]

Thanks Doc. The top 4 votegetters all made significant gains in career POY shares:

Code: Select all

1   Bill Russell   10.956
2   Kareem Abdul-Jabbar   10.221
3   Michael Jordan   9.578
4   Wilt Chamberlain   7.818
5   LeBron James   7.208
6   Magic Johnson   7.114
7   Tim Duncan   6.248
8   Larry Bird   6.147
9   Shaquille O'Neal   5.910
10   Julius Erving   5.046
11   Karl Malone   4.649
12   Bob Pettit   4.466
13   Oscar Robertson   4.413
14   Kobe Bryant   4.380
15   Hakeem Olajuwon   4.380
16   Jerry West   3.795
17   Kevin Garnett   3.571
18   Moses Malone   3.478
19   Dwyane Wade   2.601
20   Chris Paul   2.431
21   David Robinson   2.431
22   Dirk Nowitzki   2.373
23   Kevin Durant   2.242
24   Elgin Baylor   2.223
25   Dolph Schayes   2.176
26   Walt Frazier   2.061
27   Charles Barkley   2.029
28   George Gervin   1.582
29   Bob McAdoo   1.402
30   Bill Walton   1.373
31   Steve Nash   1.319
32   Stephen Curry   1.302
33   Rick Barry   1.187
34   Bob Cousy   1.115
35   Dwight Howard   1.104
36   Neil Johnston   1.095
37   Patrick Ewing   1.087
38   Paul Arizin   1.033
39   Alonzo Mourning   0.843
40   Gary Payton   0.751
41   Willis Reed   0.684
42   Artis Gilmore   0.681
43   John Havlicek   0.662
44   Dave Cowens   0.645
45   Sidney Moncrief   0.617
46   Tracy McGrady   0.613
47   Cliff Hagan   0.579
48   James Harden   0.572
49   Larry Foust   0.525
50   Bob Lanier   0.519
51   Clyde Drexler   0.481
52   Bernard King   0.453
53   Scottie Pippen   0.441
54   Grant Hill   0.386
55   Nate Thurmond   0.385
56   David Thompson   0.351
57   Allen Iverson   0.321
58   Elvin Hayes   0.321
59   Dominique Wilkins   0.319
60   Isiah Thomas   0.246
61   Anfernee Hardaway   0.230
62   Wes Unseld   0.216
63   Sam Jones   0.213
64   Blake Griffin   0.209
65   Marques Johnson   0.197
66   Jason Kidd   0.189
67   Tiny Archibald   0.188
68   Kevin McHale   0.140
69   Connie Hawkins   0.125
70   Kevin Love   0.123
71   Anthony Davis   0.122
72   George Yardley   0.122
73   John Stockton   0.120
74   Billy Cunningham   0.116
75   Derrick Rose   0.109
76   Maurice Stokes   0.092
77   Adrian Dantley   0.084
78   Kenny Sears   0.069
79   Jermaine O'Neal   0.068
80   George McGinnis   0.065
81   Russell Westbrook   0.063
82   Ben Wallace   0.059
83   Paul George   0.052
84   Amar'e Stoudemire   0.051
85   Tony Parker   0.043
86   Vince Carter   0.042
87   Chris Webber   0.035
88   Manu Ginobili   0.032
89   Marc Gasol   0.030
90   Dennis Johnson   0.029
91   Hal Greer   0.026
92   Kevin Johnson   0.023
93   Frank Ramsey   0.023
94   Bill Sharman   0.023
95   Bobby Jones   0.022
96   Pete Maravich   0.022
97   Jeff Ruland   0.021
98   Bob Dandridge   0.021
99   Ray Allen   0.020
100   Chauncey Billups   0.018
101   Zelmo Beaty   0.018
102   Andrei Kirilenko   0.018
103   Dave Bing   0.018
104   LaMarcus Aldridge   0.017
105   Spencer Haywood   0.016
106   Deron Williams   0.014
107   Walter Davis   0.013
108   Alex English   0.010
109   Peja Stojakovic   0.009
110   Paul Pierce   0.008
111   Walt Bellamy   0.008
112   Vern Mikkelsen   0.008
113   Paul Westphal   0.007
114   Cedric Maxwell   0.006
115   Glen Rice   0.005
116   Buck Williams   0.005
117   Earl Monroe   0.005
118   Carmelo Anthony   0.004
119   Reggie Miller   0.004
120   Tim Hardaway   0.004
121   Shawn Kemp   0.004
122   Brad Daugherty   0.004
123   Andre Iguodala   0.003

[Doctor MJ]

Thanks Doc. The top 4 votegetters all made significant gains in career POY shares:

Code: Select all

1   Bill Russell   10.956
2   Kareem Abdul-Jabbar   10.221
3   Michael Jordan   9.578
4   Wilt Chamberlain   7.818
5   LeBron James   7.208
6   Magic Johnson   7.114
7   Tim Duncan   6.248
8   Larry Bird   6.147
9   Shaquille O'Neal   5.910
10   Julius Erving   5.046
11   Karl Malone   4.649
12   Bob Pettit   4.466
13   Oscar Robertson   4.413
14   Kobe Bryant   4.380
15   Hakeem Olajuwon   4.380
16   Jerry West   3.795
17   Kevin Garnett   3.571
18   Moses Malone   3.478
19   Dwyane Wade   2.601
20   Chris Paul   2.431
21   David Robinson   2.431
22   Dirk Nowitzki   2.373
23   Kevin Durant   2.242
24   Elgin Baylor   2.223
25   Dolph Schayes   2.176
26   Walt Frazier   2.061
27   Charles Barkley   2.029
28   George Gervin   1.582
29   Bob McAdoo   1.402
30   Bill Walton   1.373
31   Steve Nash   1.319
32   Stephen Curry   1.302
33   Rick Barry   1.187
34   Bob Cousy   1.115
35   Dwight Howard   1.104
36   Neil Johnston   1.095
37   Patrick Ewing   1.087
38   Paul Arizin   1.033
39   Alonzo Mourning   0.843
40   Gary Payton   0.751
41   Willis Reed   0.684
42   Artis Gilmore   0.681
43   John Havlicek   0.662
44   Dave Cowens   0.645
45   Sidney Moncrief   0.617
46   Tracy McGrady   0.613
47   Cliff Hagan   0.579
48   James Harden   0.572
49   Larry Foust   0.525
50   Bob Lanier   0.519
51   Clyde Drexler   0.481
52   Bernard King   0.453
53   Scottie Pippen   0.441
54   Grant Hill   0.386
55   Nate Thurmond   0.385
56   David Thompson   0.351
57   Allen Iverson   0.321
58   Elvin Hayes   0.321
59   Dominique Wilkins   0.319
60   Isiah Thomas   0.246
61   Anfernee Hardaway   0.230
62   Wes Unseld   0.216
63   Sam Jones   0.213
64   Blake Griffin   0.209
65   Marques Johnson   0.197
66   Jason Kidd   0.189
67   Tiny Archibald   0.188
68   Kevin McHale   0.140
69   Connie Hawkins   0.125
70   Kevin Love   0.123
71   Anthony Davis   0.122
72   George Yardley   0.122
73   John Stockton   0.120
74   Billy Cunningham   0.116
75   Derrick Rose   0.109
76   Maurice Stokes   0.092
77   Adrian Dantley   0.084
78   Kenny Sears   0.069
79   Jermaine O'Neal   0.068
80   George McGinnis   0.065
81   Russell Westbrook   0.063
82   Ben Wallace   0.059
83   Paul George   0.052
84   Amar'e Stoudemire   0.051
85   Tony Parker   0.043
86   Vince Carter   0.042
87   Chris Webber   0.035
88   Manu Ginobili   0.032
89   Marc Gasol   0.030
90   Dennis Johnson   0.029
91   Hal Greer   0.026
92   Kevin Johnson   0.023
93   Frank Ramsey   0.023
94   Bill Sharman   0.023
95   Bobby Jones   0.022
96   Pete Maravich   0.022
97   Jeff Ruland   0.021
98   Bob Dandridge   0.021
99   Ray Allen   0.020
100   Chauncey Billups   0.018
101   Zelmo Beaty   0.018
102   Andrei Kirilenko   0.018
103   Dave Bing   0.018
104   LaMarcus Aldridge   0.017
105   Spencer Haywood   0.016
106   Deron Williams   0.014
107   Walter Davis   0.013
108   Alex English   0.010
109   Peja Stojakovic   0.009
110   Paul Pierce   0.008
111   Walt Bellamy   0.008
112   Vern Mikkelsen   0.008
113   Paul Westphal   0.007
114   Cedric Maxwell   0.006
115   Glen Rice   0.005
116   Buck Williams   0.005
117   Earl Monroe   0.005
118   Carmelo Anthony   0.004
119   Reggie Miller   0.004
120   Tim Hardaway   0.004
121   Shawn Kemp   0.004
122   Brad Daugherty   0.004
123   Andre Iguodala   0.003

Very cool. Thanks fpliii!

Isn't it amazing that Curry has already almost surpassed Nash?

btw folks, my internet got cut off at home yesterday which kept me from finishing, and now I'm about to head out of town for a bit. I'll finish the Results post when I can.

[andrewww]

Thanks Doc. The top 4 votegetters all made significant gains in career POY shares:

Code: Select all

1   Bill Russell   10.956
2   Kareem Abdul-Jabbar   10.221
3   Michael Jordan   9.578
4   Wilt Chamberlain   7.818
5   LeBron James   7.208
6   Magic Johnson   7.114
7   Tim Duncan   6.248
8   Larry Bird   6.147
9   Shaquille O'Neal   5.910
10   Julius Erving   5.046
11   Karl Malone   4.649
12   Bob Pettit   4.466
13   Oscar Robertson   4.413
14   Kobe Bryant   4.380
15   Hakeem Olajuwon   4.380
16   Jerry West   3.795
17   Kevin Garnett   3.571
18   Moses Malone   3.478
19   Dwyane Wade   2.601
20   Chris Paul   2.431
21   David Robinson   2.431
22   Dirk Nowitzki   2.373
23   Kevin Durant   2.242
24   Elgin Baylor   2.223
25   Dolph Schayes   2.176
26   Walt Frazier   2.061
27   Charles Barkley   2.029
28   George Gervin   1.582
29   Bob McAdoo   1.402
30   Bill Walton   1.373
31   Steve Nash   1.319
32   Stephen Curry   1.302
33   Rick Barry   1.187
34   Bob Cousy   1.115
35   Dwight Howard   1.104
36   Neil Johnston   1.095
37   Patrick Ewing   1.087
38   Paul Arizin   1.033
39   Alonzo Mourning   0.843
40   Gary Payton   0.751
41   Willis Reed   0.684
42   Artis Gilmore   0.681
43   John Havlicek   0.662
44   Dave Cowens   0.645
45   Sidney Moncrief   0.617
46   Tracy McGrady   0.613
47   Cliff Hagan   0.579
48   James Harden   0.572
49   Larry Foust   0.525
50   Bob Lanier   0.519
51   Clyde Drexler   0.481
52   Bernard King   0.453
53   Scottie Pippen   0.441
54   Grant Hill   0.386
55   Nate Thurmond   0.385
56   David Thompson   0.351
57   Allen Iverson   0.321
58   Elvin Hayes   0.321
59   Dominique Wilkins   0.319
60   Isiah Thomas   0.246
61   Anfernee Hardaway   0.230
62   Wes Unseld   0.216
63   Sam Jones   0.213
64   Blake Griffin   0.209
65   Marques Johnson   0.197
66   Jason Kidd   0.189
67   Tiny Archibald   0.188
68   Kevin McHale   0.140
69   Connie Hawkins   0.125
70   Kevin Love   0.123
71   Anthony Davis   0.122
72   George Yardley   0.122
73   John Stockton   0.120
74   Billy Cunningham   0.116
75   Derrick Rose   0.109
76   Maurice Stokes   0.092
77   Adrian Dantley   0.084
78   Kenny Sears   0.069
79   Jermaine O'Neal   0.068
80   George McGinnis   0.065
81   Russell Westbrook   0.063
82   Ben Wallace   0.059
83   Paul George   0.052
84   Amar'e Stoudemire   0.051
85   Tony Parker   0.043
86   Vince Carter   0.042
87   Chris Webber   0.035
88   Manu Ginobili   0.032
89   Marc Gasol   0.030
90   Dennis Johnson   0.029
91   Hal Greer   0.026
92   Kevin Johnson   0.023
93   Frank Ramsey   0.023
94   Bill Sharman   0.023
95   Bobby Jones   0.022
96   Pete Maravich   0.022
97   Jeff Ruland   0.021
98   Bob Dandridge   0.021
99   Ray Allen   0.020
100   Chauncey Billups   0.018
101   Zelmo Beaty   0.018
102   Andrei Kirilenko   0.018
103   Dave Bing   0.018
104   LaMarcus Aldridge   0.017
105   Spencer Haywood   0.016
106   Deron Williams   0.014
107   Walter Davis   0.013
108   Alex English   0.010
109   Peja Stojakovic   0.009
110   Paul Pierce   0.008
111   Walt Bellamy   0.008
112   Vern Mikkelsen   0.008
113   Paul Westphal   0.007
114   Cedric Maxwell   0.006
115   Glen Rice   0.005
116   Buck Williams   0.005
117   Earl Monroe   0.005
118   Carmelo Anthony   0.004
119   Reggie Miller   0.004
120   Tim Hardaway   0.004
121   Shawn Kemp   0.004
122   Brad Daugherty   0.004
123   Andre Iguodala   0.003

Very cool. Thanks fpliii!

Isn't it amazing that Curry has already almost surpassed Nash?

btw folks, my internet got cut off at home yesterday which kept me from finishing, and now I'm about to head out of town for a bit. I'll finish the Results post when I can.

Seems to me from first glance that the biggest problem with career POY shares inflates those with minimal competition when it comes to having other all time greats in the same era. For example, notice how Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe are all lower than Lebron whose body of work isn't close to being complete, yet he's already ahead of every one of them? The common denominator is that all 4 of those players had their primes overlap with one another somehow. Perhaps this is a naive post but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

[Jaivl]

Seems to me from first glance that the biggest problem with career POY shares inflates those with minimal competition when it comes to having other all time greats in the same era. For example, notice how Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe are all lower than Lebron whose body of work isn't close to being complete, yet he's already ahead of every one of them? The common denominator is that all 4 of those players had their primes overlap with one another somehow. Perhaps this is a naive post but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Yeah maybe. But it's not the best example, when LeBron's prime overlapped with Kobe's, Dirk's, Wade's...

[andrewww]

Seems to me from first glance that the biggest problem with career POY shares inflates those with minimal competition when it comes to having other all time greats in the same era. For example, notice how Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe are all lower than Lebron whose body of work isn't close to being complete, yet he's already ahead of every one of them? The common denominator is that all 4 of those players had their primes overlap with one another somehow. Perhaps this is a naive post but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Yeah maybe. But it's not the best example, when LeBron's prime overlapped with Kobe's, Dirk's, Wade's...

Most don't consider Dirk or Wade in the top 15.

Most however do consider Shaq/Duncan/Hakeem in the top 15.

[roriobane]

Seems to me from first glance that the biggest problem with career POY shares inflates those with minimal competition when it comes to having other all time greats in the same era. For example, notice how Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe are all lower than Lebron whose body of work isn't close to being complete, yet he's already ahead of every one of them? The common denominator is that all 4 of those players had their primes overlap with one another somehow. Perhaps this is a naive post but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Yeah maybe. But it's not the best example, when LeBron's prime overlapped with Kobe's, Dirk's, Wade's...

not really. lebron's prime is 09-15. kobe's prime clearly ended in 09 or 2010. wade's in 2011. dirks in 2011.

[JordansBulls]

Thanks Doc. The top 4 votegetters all made significant gains in career POY shares:

Code: Select all

1   Bill Russell   10.956
2   Kareem Abdul-Jabbar   10.221
3   Michael Jordan   9.578
4   Wilt Chamberlain   7.818
5   LeBron James   7.208
6   Magic Johnson   7.114
7   Tim Duncan   6.248
8   Larry Bird   6.147
9   Shaquille O'Neal   5.910
10   Julius Erving   5.046
11   Karl Malone   4.649
12   Bob Pettit   4.466
13   Oscar Robertson   4.413
14   Kobe Bryant   4.380
15   Hakeem Olajuwon   4.380
16   Jerry West   3.795
17   Kevin Garnett   3.571
18   Moses Malone   3.478
19   Dwyane Wade   2.601
20   Chris Paul   2.431
21   David Robinson   2.431
22   Dirk Nowitzki   2.373
23   Kevin Durant   2.242
24   Elgin Baylor   2.223
25   Dolph Schayes   2.176
26   Walt Frazier   2.061
27   Charles Barkley   2.029
28   George Gervin   1.582
29   Bob McAdoo   1.402
30   Bill Walton   1.373
31   Steve Nash   1.319
32   Stephen Curry   1.302
33   Rick Barry   1.187
34   Bob Cousy   1.115
35   Dwight Howard   1.104
36   Neil Johnston   1.095
37   Patrick Ewing   1.087
38   Paul Arizin   1.033
39   Alonzo Mourning   0.843
40   Gary Payton   0.751
41   Willis Reed   0.684
42   Artis Gilmore   0.681
43   John Havlicek   0.662
44   Dave Cowens   0.645
45   Sidney Moncrief   0.617
46   Tracy McGrady   0.613
47   Cliff Hagan   0.579
48   James Harden   0.572
49   Larry Foust   0.525
50   Bob Lanier   0.519
51   Clyde Drexler   0.481
52   Bernard King   0.453
53   Scottie Pippen   0.441
54   Grant Hill   0.386
55   Nate Thurmond   0.385
56   David Thompson   0.351
57   Allen Iverson   0.321
58   Elvin Hayes   0.321
59   Dominique Wilkins   0.319
60   Isiah Thomas   0.246
61   Anfernee Hardaway   0.230
62   Wes Unseld   0.216
63   Sam Jones   0.213
64   Blake Griffin   0.209
65   Marques Johnson   0.197
66   Jason Kidd   0.189
67   Tiny Archibald   0.188
68   Kevin McHale   0.140
69   Connie Hawkins   0.125
70   Kevin Love   0.123
71   Anthony Davis   0.122
72   George Yardley   0.122
73   John Stockton   0.120
74   Billy Cunningham   0.116
75   Derrick Rose   0.109
76   Maurice Stokes   0.092
77   Adrian Dantley   0.084
78   Kenny Sears   0.069
79   Jermaine O'Neal   0.068
80   George McGinnis   0.065
81   Russell Westbrook   0.063
82   Ben Wallace   0.059
83   Paul George   0.052
84   Amar'e Stoudemire   0.051
85   Tony Parker   0.043
86   Vince Carter   0.042
87   Chris Webber   0.035
88   Manu Ginobili   0.032
89   Marc Gasol   0.030
90   Dennis Johnson   0.029
91   Hal Greer   0.026
92   Kevin Johnson   0.023
93   Frank Ramsey   0.023
94   Bill Sharman   0.023
95   Bobby Jones   0.022
96   Pete Maravich   0.022
97   Jeff Ruland   0.021
98   Bob Dandridge   0.021
99   Ray Allen   0.020
100   Chauncey Billups   0.018
101   Zelmo Beaty   0.018
102   Andrei Kirilenko   0.018
103   Dave Bing   0.018
104   LaMarcus Aldridge   0.017
105   Spencer Haywood   0.016
106   Deron Williams   0.014
107   Walter Davis   0.013
108   Alex English   0.010
109   Peja Stojakovic   0.009
110   Paul Pierce   0.008
111   Walt Bellamy   0.008
112   Vern Mikkelsen   0.008
113   Paul Westphal   0.007
114   Cedric Maxwell   0.006
115   Glen Rice   0.005
116   Buck Williams   0.005
117   Earl Monroe   0.005
118   Carmelo Anthony   0.004
119   Reggie Miller   0.004
120   Tim Hardaway   0.004
121   Shawn Kemp   0.004
122   Brad Daugherty   0.004
123   Andre Iguodala   0.003

Very cool. Thanks fpliii!

Isn't it amazing that Curry has already almost surpassed Nash?

btw folks, my internet got cut off at home yesterday which kept me from finishing, and now I'm about to head out of town for a bit. I'll finish the Results post when I can.

Seems to me from first glance that the biggest problem with career POY shares inflates those with minimal competition when it comes to having other all time greats in the same era. For example, notice how Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe are all lower than Lebron whose body of work isn't close to being complete, yet he's already ahead of every one of them? The common denominator is that all 4 of those players had their primes overlap with one another somehow. Perhaps this is a naive post but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

I can agree with this. It would be one It would be one thing if it was Duncan 2002, 2003 in the league with Shaq 2002, 2003, Kobe 2003, Garnett 2003, etc with Lebron 2009-2011 to see how things play out especially if Shaq wins in 2002 and Duncan in 2003.

[HeartBreakKid]

Thanks Doc. The top 4 votegetters all made significant gains in career POY shares:

Code: Select all

1   Bill Russell   10.956
2   Kareem Abdul-Jabbar   10.221
3   Michael Jordan   9.578
4   Wilt Chamberlain   7.818
5   LeBron James   7.208
6   Magic Johnson   7.114
7   Tim Duncan   6.248
8   Larry Bird   6.147
9   Shaquille O'Neal   5.910
10   Julius Erving   5.046
11   Karl Malone   4.649
12   Bob Pettit   4.466
13   Oscar Robertson   4.413
14   Kobe Bryant   4.380
15   Hakeem Olajuwon   4.380
16   Jerry West   3.795
17   Kevin Garnett   3.571
18   Moses Malone   3.478
19   Dwyane Wade   2.601
20   Chris Paul   2.431
21   David Robinson   2.431
22   Dirk Nowitzki   2.373
23   Kevin Durant   2.242
24   Elgin Baylor   2.223
25   Dolph Schayes   2.176
26   Walt Frazier   2.061
27   Charles Barkley   2.029
28   George Gervin   1.582
29   Bob McAdoo   1.402
30   Bill Walton   1.373
31   Steve Nash   1.319
32   Stephen Curry   1.302
33   Rick Barry   1.187
34   Bob Cousy   1.115
35   Dwight Howard   1.104
36   Neil Johnston   1.095
37   Patrick Ewing   1.087
38   Paul Arizin   1.033
39   Alonzo Mourning   0.843
40   Gary Payton   0.751
41   Willis Reed   0.684
42   Artis Gilmore   0.681
43   John Havlicek   0.662
44   Dave Cowens   0.645
45   Sidney Moncrief   0.617
46   Tracy McGrady   0.613
47   Cliff Hagan   0.579
48   James Harden   0.572
49   Larry Foust   0.525
50   Bob Lanier   0.519
51   Clyde Drexler   0.481
52   Bernard King   0.453
53   Scottie Pippen   0.441
54   Grant Hill   0.386
55   Nate Thurmond   0.385
56   David Thompson   0.351
57   Allen Iverson   0.321
58   Elvin Hayes   0.321
59   Dominique Wilkins   0.319
60   Isiah Thomas   0.246
61   Anfernee Hardaway   0.230
62   Wes Unseld   0.216
63   Sam Jones   0.213
64   Blake Griffin   0.209
65   Marques Johnson   0.197
66   Jason Kidd   0.189
67   Tiny Archibald   0.188
68   Kevin McHale   0.140
69   Connie Hawkins   0.125
70   Kevin Love   0.123
71   Anthony Davis   0.122
72   George Yardley   0.122
73   John Stockton   0.120
74   Billy Cunningham   0.116
75   Derrick Rose   0.109
76   Maurice Stokes   0.092
77   Adrian Dantley   0.084
78   Kenny Sears   0.069
79   Jermaine O'Neal   0.068
80   George McGinnis   0.065
81   Russell Westbrook   0.063
82   Ben Wallace   0.059
83   Paul George   0.052
84   Amar'e Stoudemire   0.051
85   Tony Parker   0.043
86   Vince Carter   0.042
87   Chris Webber   0.035
88   Manu Ginobili   0.032
89   Marc Gasol   0.030
90   Dennis Johnson   0.029
91   Hal Greer   0.026
92   Kevin Johnson   0.023
93   Frank Ramsey   0.023
94   Bill Sharman   0.023
95   Bobby Jones   0.022
96   Pete Maravich   0.022
97   Jeff Ruland   0.021
98   Bob Dandridge   0.021
99   Ray Allen   0.020
100   Chauncey Billups   0.018
101   Zelmo Beaty   0.018
102   Andrei Kirilenko   0.018
103   Dave Bing   0.018
104   LaMarcus Aldridge   0.017
105   Spencer Haywood   0.016
106   Deron Williams   0.014
107   Walter Davis   0.013
108   Alex English   0.010
109   Peja Stojakovic   0.009
110   Paul Pierce   0.008
111   Walt Bellamy   0.008
112   Vern Mikkelsen   0.008
113   Paul Westphal   0.007
114   Cedric Maxwell   0.006
115   Glen Rice   0.005
116   Buck Williams   0.005
117   Earl Monroe   0.005
118   Carmelo Anthony   0.004
119   Reggie Miller   0.004
120   Tim Hardaway   0.004
121   Shawn Kemp   0.004
122   Brad Daugherty   0.004
123   Andre Iguodala   0.003

Very cool. Thanks fpliii!

Isn't it amazing that Curry has already almost surpassed Nash?

btw folks, my internet got cut off at home yesterday which kept me from finishing, and now I'm about to head out of town for a bit. I'll finish the Results post when I can.

Seems to me from first glance that the biggest problem with career POY shares inflates those with minimal competition when it comes to having other all time greats in the same era. For example, notice how Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe are all lower than Lebron whose body of work isn't close to being complete, yet he's already ahead of every one of them? The common denominator is that all 4 of those players had their primes overlap with one another somehow. Perhaps this is a naive post but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Wait, out of all the examples you cite Lebron James? James being above all of those players isn't crazy at all (I have him above half the guys you listed), and he's been a franchise player for 10 years, his body of work doesn't have to be complete to be ahead of them.

You'd figure that someone like Schayes would be a better example.

[Doctor MJ]

Seems to me from first glance that the biggest problem with career POY shares inflates those with minimal competition when it comes to having other all time greats in the same era. For example, notice how Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe are all lower than Lebron whose body of work isn't close to being complete, yet he's already ahead of every one of them? The common denominator is that all 4 of those players had their primes overlap with one another somehow. Perhaps this is a naive post but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Well let me be totally clear here:

This list is not my GOAT list.
I even have my own personal Shares list based on my votes, it isn't my GOAT list either.

Any method like this is a broad strokes metric that cannot be the end-all be-all of player comparisons by any means. It's simply that people find it interesting, and I think they do find it useful as a starting point for analysis. Additionally, I purposefully forced the voting to use the same arbitrary methods of the NBA MVP awards specifically so that we could compare and contrast the two even as I acknowledge there were other methods as good or better.

None of this is to say you can't look at the list and pick a part what bothers you about it, it's just that when you do so you're not actually saying what we did was wrong in any way from my perspective, and so I see no real possibility for confrontation here.

Understand though with LeBron that his longevity at this point is on par, or even a little above, Bird & Magic, who people traditionally have no issue with putting ahead of those guys. Not saying people don't have disagreements there, but if LeBron ahead of those guys just seems "wrong" to you, and the other guys don't feel the same, then the issue is that you're viewing LeBron as a "player in progress who should still have to do more", and not applying those same standards to all players of the past with limited longevity. Remember also with LeBron that for the most part no one questions that his prime is up there with basically anyone other than Jordan. As such, while the Shares-based methods are flawed and likely overrate peak in some ways relative to longer primes, there's not really a "weak era" issue in play here based on how LeBron is typically seen even by those who are critical of him.

[kayess]

Thanks Doc. The top 4 votegetters all made significant gains in career POY shares:

Code: Select all

1   Bill Russell   10.956
2   Kareem Abdul-Jabbar   10.221
3   Michael Jordan   9.578
4   Wilt Chamberlain   7.818
5   LeBron James   7.208
6   Magic Johnson   7.114
7   Tim Duncan   6.248
8   Larry Bird   6.147
9   Shaquille O'Neal   5.910
10   Julius Erving   5.046
11   Karl Malone   4.649
12   Bob Pettit   4.466
13   Oscar Robertson   4.413
14   Kobe Bryant   4.380
15   Hakeem Olajuwon   4.380
16   Jerry West   3.795
17   Kevin Garnett   3.571
18   Moses Malone   3.478
19   Dwyane Wade   2.601
20   Chris Paul   2.431
21   David Robinson   2.431
22   Dirk Nowitzki   2.373
23   Kevin Durant   2.242
24   Elgin Baylor   2.223
25   Dolph Schayes   2.176
26   Walt Frazier   2.061
27   Charles Barkley   2.029
28   George Gervin   1.582
29   Bob McAdoo   1.402
30   Bill Walton   1.373
31   Steve Nash   1.319
32   Stephen Curry   1.302
33   Rick Barry   1.187
34   Bob Cousy   1.115
35   Dwight Howard   1.104
36   Neil Johnston   1.095
37   Patrick Ewing   1.087
38   Paul Arizin   1.033
39   Alonzo Mourning   0.843
40   Gary Payton   0.751
41   Willis Reed   0.684
42   Artis Gilmore   0.681
43   John Havlicek   0.662
44   Dave Cowens   0.645
45   Sidney Moncrief   0.617
46   Tracy McGrady   0.613
47   Cliff Hagan   0.579
48   James Harden   0.572
49   Larry Foust   0.525
50   Bob Lanier   0.519
51   Clyde Drexler   0.481
52   Bernard King   0.453
53   Scottie Pippen   0.441
54   Grant Hill   0.386
55   Nate Thurmond   0.385
56   David Thompson   0.351
57   Allen Iverson   0.321
58   Elvin Hayes   0.321
59   Dominique Wilkins   0.319
60   Isiah Thomas   0.246
61   Anfernee Hardaway   0.230
62   Wes Unseld   0.216
63   Sam Jones   0.213
64   Blake Griffin   0.209
65   Marques Johnson   0.197
66   Jason Kidd   0.189
67   Tiny Archibald   0.188
68   Kevin McHale   0.140
69   Connie Hawkins   0.125
70   Kevin Love   0.123
71   Anthony Davis   0.122
72   George Yardley   0.122
73   John Stockton   0.120
74   Billy Cunningham   0.116
75   Derrick Rose   0.109
76   Maurice Stokes   0.092
77   Adrian Dantley   0.084
78   Kenny Sears   0.069
79   Jermaine O'Neal   0.068
80   George McGinnis   0.065
81   Russell Westbrook   0.063
82   Ben Wallace   0.059
83   Paul George   0.052
84   Amar'e Stoudemire   0.051
85   Tony Parker   0.043
86   Vince Carter   0.042
87   Chris Webber   0.035
88   Manu Ginobili   0.032
89   Marc Gasol   0.030
90   Dennis Johnson   0.029
91   Hal Greer   0.026
92   Kevin Johnson   0.023
93   Frank Ramsey   0.023
94   Bill Sharman   0.023
95   Bobby Jones   0.022
96   Pete Maravich   0.022
97   Jeff Ruland   0.021
98   Bob Dandridge   0.021
99   Ray Allen   0.020
100   Chauncey Billups   0.018
101   Zelmo Beaty   0.018
102   Andrei Kirilenko   0.018
103   Dave Bing   0.018
104   LaMarcus Aldridge   0.017
105   Spencer Haywood   0.016
106   Deron Williams   0.014
107   Walter Davis   0.013
108   Alex English   0.010
109   Peja Stojakovic   0.009
110   Paul Pierce   0.008
111   Walt Bellamy   0.008
112   Vern Mikkelsen   0.008
113   Paul Westphal   0.007
114   Cedric Maxwell   0.006
115   Glen Rice   0.005
116   Buck Williams   0.005
117   Earl Monroe   0.005
118   Carmelo Anthony   0.004
119   Reggie Miller   0.004
120   Tim Hardaway   0.004
121   Shawn Kemp   0.004
122   Brad Daugherty   0.004
123   Andre Iguodala   0.003

Very cool. Thanks fpliii!

Isn't it amazing that Curry has already almost surpassed Nash?

btw folks, my internet got cut off at home yesterday which kept me from finishing, and now I'm about to head out of town for a bit. I'll finish the Results post when I can.

Seems to me from first glance that the biggest problem with career POY shares inflates those with minimal competition when it comes to having other all time greats in the same era. For example, notice how Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe are all lower than Lebron whose body of work isn't close to being complete, yet he's already ahead of every one of them? The common denominator is that all 4 of those players had their primes overlap with one another somehow. Perhaps this is a naive post but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

My thoughts: Kobe should be the GOAT instead, what he did in 2006 was unprecedented, 35.4ppg, 81 points in a game, etc.

[sp6r=underrated]

Curry being so close to Nash is more a productive of the Nash controversy rather than how quick of an assent Curry is making on the all-time list. Even in 2005, 2006 and 2007 RPOY threads there was a consistent group of voters who ranked Nash at the bottom of their top 5 or left him out of it all together. Outside of those seasons Nash got very little consideration from most voters and received no votes from his critics. The reasons for their skepticism and the criticism of those arguments are well-hashed but the result of the controversy is that Nash will have a relatively pedestrian total.

[Doctor MJ]

Ugh, just realized I still need to update my post. But any way, here's a link to the nominees to the award choices for & by NBA players:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/here-are-your-nominees-for-the-nbpa-s-1st-annual-players-awards-201046872.html

I'll just say, they seem bad in all the ways you'd predict. Not to say I'd assume player voting would suck, because reporters have weaknesses too, but yeah, these look pretty bad to me.

[HeartBreakKid]

What is global impact player? If it's someone with international rec then it's kinda funny seeing a Jersey guy like Irving on there, lol.


Naturally the players list will be bad, they would be the most bias voters you could find.

[GSP]

Ugh, just realized I still need to update my post. But any way, here's a link to the nominees to the award choices for & by NBA players:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/here-are-your-nominees-for-the-nbpa-s-1st-annual-players-awards-201046872.html

I'll just say, they seem bad in all the ways you'd predict. Not to say I'd assume player voting would suck, because reporters have weaknesses too, but yeah, these look pretty bad to me.

Im glad Tony Allen is more respected by the Nba players than the media at least. He should absolutely be in the discussion for best defender in the entire league. Surprised Niko wasnt mentioned especially over Clarkson on the rookies

[Clyde Frazier]

What is global impact player? If it's someone with international rec then it's kinda funny seeing a Jersey guy like Irving on there, lol.


Naturally the players list will be bad, they would be the most bias voters you could find.

He technically has dual citizenship here and in australia because he was born there. That said, i'm pretty sure he grew up in jersey, and represents the US in international play, so it is an odd choice.