Peaks Project #21

[Matt15]

1.2008 Kobe Bryant

2.1993 Charles Barkley

3.1983 Moses Malone

[trex_8063]

Moses wasn't first team All-D for no reason and his defensive +/- on one of the GOAT teams is very impressive. Watching him play he was a great man defender, and was above average to good at everything else (for example he was good at guarding the rim. In 83 he was 10th in blocks. 10th in blocks this year was Brook Lopez. 9th? Drummond). When he actually tried he was a pretty good defender.

Fair enough. I'm probably under-crediting his defense. I was never super-impressed with his D mostly because he was [generally] a mediocre rim protector, and I didn't see the lateral mobility and IQ or consistent effort necessary to be elite in pnr/help cut off the drive/orchestrating others defender (a la Walton or KG); and he never really anchored an elite defense either (and DID anchor several below average team defenses).

But you're right in that he is a hard-nosed man defender; and for the purposes of this project, in '83 he was a reasonably decent rim protector (getting 2.5 blk/100 poss) while still dominating the defensive boards. So I probably need to be giving this aspect of his game a little more respect (in '83, at least).

[trex_8063]

Thru post #22:

Kobe Bryant - 15
Patrick Ewing - 15
Chris Paul - 9
Tracy McGrady - 8
Charles Barkley - 6
Moses Malone - 4
Karl Malone - 3

If we get some decent turn-out for ballots in the next 6 hours, I may yet close this thread down tonight. Otherwise I'll leave it open until tomorrow morning since we did get sort of a late start on this one.

Tight race between Pat and Kobe. Chime in on that comparison. It's pretty tight. I'd lean slightly toward Kobe, personally. Obviously [much] less of an impact player defensively, but the opposite is the case offensively. And I'm not saying offense > defense necessarily. Some people would argue it should be seen that way, as a single offensive juggernaut can take over the game in certain situations; he literally CAN make an imprint on every single possession. A single elite defender, otoh, cannot (because there are five offensive players and a lot of geography to cover on the court). There is something to that argument, although it's generally less relevant when the elite defensive player is a center who can "protect the rim/paint".
But for reasons I cannot quite articulate (at least not right now), I find myself leaning slightly toward Kobe in this comparison.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

[SideshowBob]

Ballot

20. Barkley 90 +5.75 (+6.00 O/-0.25 D)

21. Paul 08 +5.75 (+5.50 O/+0.25 D)

22. Kobe 08 +5.75 (+5.50 O/+0.25 D)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No change. If the thread is still open in the morning I'll try and get my breakdown for the wings up - I have some extensive thoughts but have been swamped in the last few days and haven't had the time to articulate them.

Had Pat/Durant after these three, so seeing as Durant's gotten in, Ewing's my next up on the ballot.

[RSCD3_]

HMMM

90 Ewing vs 09 kobe

Ewing RS: 36.2 PP100 on 59.9 TS% ( +6.2 RelTS% ) , 13.8 RP100 , 2.8 AP100 on 0.81 AST/TOV% Ratio,
115/103 PER100 splits, 4.6 BPM ( 2.6/1.9 ) 0.205 WS/48

Kobe RS: 37.8 PP100 on 56.1 TS% ( + 1.7 RelTS% ) , 7.4 RP100, 6.9 AP100 on 2.45 AST/TOV% Ratio
115/106 PER100 Splits, 4.5 BPM (4.8/-0.2) 0.206 WS/48

Ewing PS: 37.5 PP100 on 57.9 TS% ( +3.6 RelTS% ) 13.4 RP100, 4.0 AP100 on 1.49 AST/TOV% Ratio
115/112 PER100 Splits, 4.2 BPM (1.2/3.0) 0.155 WS/48

Kobe PS: 39.0 PPg on 56.4 TS% ( +2.0 RelTS% ) 6.9 RP100, 7.1 AP100 on 2.99 AST/TOV% Ratio
117/104 PER100 splits, 7.4 BPM (6.8/0.6) 0.238 WS/48

Conclusion:

2009 kobe Bryant

He had amazing offensive impact this year due to his playmaking being at it's peak while he still limited turnovers at a marvelous rate due to excellent ball security. His defense was about average but he picked it up to a very solid defender in the playoffs for a wing. Ewing has him beat as a scorer in the RS but the margin still goes to kobe as his helped scale up a team's offense a lot more and his playmaking/ball security allowed the lakers to have fruitful possession after possession. Even when he didnt convert he still had the very real kobe assist where his drawn attention lead to offensive rebounds being available to his teammates for easy shots.

Ewing was a great defender and had a good offensive season for a center but his limited playmaking ability puts a cap on how good of an offense he can shoulder as a number one option. His defense is also very good but I feel even with his better athleticism he didnt peak defensively until a little later when his offense skills were a lot farther down, not that he was raw but simply his gifts didnt transcribe his impact.

Anyways to put it in numbers ala SSB

If I gave Kobe 5.75 (5.50/0.25)

I'd give Ewing 5.50 (2.25/3.25)

[70sFan]

1st ballot - Moses Malone 1983
2nd ballot - Patrick Ewing 1990
3rd ballot - Charles Barkley 1990

I don't have enough time to say more about Charles over CP3, Kobe, Tracy, Baylor and Karl. I think Charles is clearly the best scorer, he was one of the most efficient scorer in history. Also, he was very good passer and rebounder. I think he is harder to stop than other guys I mentioned.

[trex_8063]

Sad turn-out, even with quoting everyone and leaving it open extra time....

Thru post #26:

Patrick Ewing - 17
Kobe Bryant - 16
Chris Paul - 11
Charles Barkley - 10
Tracy McGrady - 8
Moses Malone - 7
Karl Malone - 3

So I guess I'll be calling it for Ewing. Will have #22 up shortly.....