RealGM Top 100 All-Time (2017)

[eminence]

Just curious, but does anyone know if Fulks ever received any serious traction in the last project?

[TheGOATRises007]

I wouldn't mind voting.

Always wanted to participate in one of these.

[Ambrose]

Can you contribute without voting?

[Colbinii]

Can you contribute without voting?

Yes, by all means.

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[janmagn]

Definetly interested in voting

As you're a relative unknown on the PC forum, I'm going to request you participate in the discussion without the privilege of a counted vote for a trial period (perhaps the first ~2-4 threads of the project). As indicated in OP, this is so you can demonstrate to us genuine interest and commitment, earnest intent, capable knowledge and ability to provide relevant content or perspective.

Project will likely begin within a week from the finish of the NBA finals.

Sounds pretty fair

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[Quotatious]

Just curious, but does anyone know if Fulks ever received any serious traction in the last project?

I don't think anybody even mentioned his name in the last project.

We should decide what are we going to do with Mikan before we start the project. It's just so difficult to put him in a proper context. If we go by era-relative dominance, then I see no reason why Mikan couldn't be top 10. Only Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Shaq and LeBron were on Mikan's level in terms of era-relative dominance.

[ceiling raiser]

I'd like to participate but I don't know that I'll be voting regularly (I will vote if necessary in tiebreakers though, since I remember last time that we had some problems with runoffs dragging out) since I'm not sure if I'll have the time to commit to each thread. I do want to contribute in some fashion though, and definitely want to figure out my own top ~25 by the end of the project.

I do want to challenge myself to fill out the criteria with something firm I can stand by. Are you guys going to do another thread for pre-project rankings like we did last time? Either way is fine, but if we are, I'm probably going to start putting some thought into it soon-ish.

[Texas Chuck]

We should decide what are we going to do with Mikan before we start the project. It's just so difficult to put him in a proper context. If we go by era-relative dominance, then I see no reason why Mikan couldn't be top 10. Only Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Shaq and LeBron were on Mikan's level in terms of era-relative dominance.

As I understand the OP, he's wide open for consideration in the rankings. And each person's own criteria will determine where he falls for them. Which means you absolutely could have voters casting top ten votes for him and have voters not willing to consider him in the top 50.

And I think that's okay. I might disagree wholeheartedly with where some others would slot him, but that's part of what makes the discussion so interesting--listening to the reasoning behind each vote.

[eminence]

Just curious, but does anyone know if Fulks ever received any serious traction in the last project?

I don't think anybody even mentioned his name in the last project.

We should decide what are we going to do with Mikan before we start the project. It's just so difficult to put him in a proper context. If we go by era-relative dominance, then I see no reason why Mikan couldn't be top 10. Only Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Shaq and LeBron were on Mikan's level in terms of era-relative dominance.

Looking at him a bit more I'd say they were probably right to not seriously consider him. I just remembered him as the first real NBA superstar before Mikan, but he really did fade pretty quickly once Mikan arrived (much quicker than I remembered). Davies feels like the only other guy really from the Mikan/pre-Mikan era that deserves consideration. Schayes/Cousy coming in shortly afterward.

[trex_8063]

We should decide what are we going to do with Mikan before we start the project. It's just so difficult to put him in a proper context. If we go by era-relative dominance, then I see no reason why Mikan couldn't be top 10. Only Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Shaq and LeBron were on Mikan's level in terms of era-relative dominance.

As stipulated in OP, I'm not going to dictate the criteria by which posters need to rank players.

All I am asking is that they do consider all of BAA/NBA/ABA history (going back to '47), as well as requesting every participant please post something wrt their criteria/method in the Official Criteria Thread (linked in OP).

If a poster ranks players based on in-era impact/dominance only, that's fine. If they give Mikan a hefty "discount" due to strength of era, that's fine too. That may mean some people will rank him top 10ish, while others may have him well outside the top 50. It is what it is.
As long as people are consistent with their method and as unbiased as possible, are considering all eras, and contributing to the conversation in meaningful ways.....

[trex_8063]

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I thought this particular project would generate more interest, am starting to wonder if people simply haven't noticed there's a new stickied thread.
Anyway, wanting to beef up the voter panel, so am grabbing the attention of you lot (a couple handful of guys off the top of my head) to see if you want to participate. If so, please read the OP and reply itt to the affirmative.

[Outside]

I'd like to participate, but considering how new I am to RealGM, if you decide to make my trial period the first 99 threads for the project, I'd totally understand.

[trex_8063]

I'd like to participate, but considering how new I am to RealGM, if you decide to make my trial period the first 99 threads for the project, I'd totally understand.

I will request a trial period, but it won't be as long as that. You're new, but have certainly shown promise. Just keep doing what you're doing, and I'm sure you'll be entered into the voter panel relatively quickly.

[Colbinii]

I'd like to participate, but considering how new I am to RealGM, if you decide to make my trial period the first 99 threads for the project, I'd totally understand.

Be aware you can (and should) be posting in the threads. Just because you don't have a vote doesn't mean you don't have a voice.

Sent from my SM-G920P using RealGM mobile app

[trex_8063]

I'd like to participate, but considering how new I am to RealGM, if you decide to make my trial period the first 99 threads for the project, I'd totally understand.

Be aware you can (and should) be posting in the threads. Just because you don't have a vote doesn't mean you don't have a voice.

Sent from my SM-G920P using RealGM mobile app

Yes. If that wasn't clear from OP, you can scarcely get thru your "trial period" and become an eligible voter WITHOUT posting in the threads. You need to do so in order to demonstrate to us the capable knowledge, earnest intent, etc etc that I've referred to previously.

[E-Balla]

Not gonna lie but I've soured on these types of projects recently. 90% of the time we're rehashing old conversations, no one changes their opinions on guys, and its basically 2 people arguing from the POV of their drastically different standards.

[The-Power]

I have yet to come up a personal All-Time list, so I'm not sure I should be voting here. Given that I want to have consistent criteria, and the fact that I - as someone who relies a lot on video analysis and impact and more advanced metrics - find it all the more difficult to rate and rank players of earlier eras, I'm hesitant to commit to the project for the project's sake. I'd love to engage in the discussion if I can find the time but I don't feel comfortable influencing the vote when there are participants who put a lot of time and effort into creating their personal All-Time list.

What I always planned to do is creating a ranking of 3-year, 5-year and 7-year primes. While I initially intended to do this for post 80s players, maybe I can get started with my personal project in the meantime, include older players and find a consistent way to deal with varying longevity. Can't promise anything, though.

I'd like to participate, but considering how new I am to RealGM, if you decide to make my trial period the first 99 threads for the project, I'd totally understand.

I will request a trial period, but it won't be as long as that. You're new, but have certainly shown promise. Just keep doing what you're doing, and I'm sure you'll be entered into the voter panel relatively quickly.

Even though Outside is a relatively new poster, he has already emerged as one of the best posters on the Warriors board. Reading his posts and noticing his interest in more in-depth analysis, I was actually the one who endorsed and recommended visiting the PC board some time. So I'd feel comfortable vouching for him for what it's worth.

[Hornet Mania]

I'm interested in participating. It has always looked fun, and a good way to learn.

[Blackmill]

Not gonna lie but I've soured on these types of projects recently. 90% of the time we're rehashing old conversations, no one changes their opinions on guys, and its basically 2 people arguing from the POV of their drastically different standards.

Agreed.

A while back I was really tempted to make a poll asking voters how many of their top-10 votes were changed because of the discussion had. I could be wrong but I imagine people tended to vote according to their initial thoughts.

I think eras are a big problem. Some people evaluate players in the context of the last decade, others in the era they played, and some try average how a player might play over all eras. I think the natural solution is to create an all-time list for each era but I doubt that would ever be adopted.

There's two things I'd like to see more of this project:

1) Footage. There's was a whole lot of stats and story telling the last project with very little analysis of footage. Some highlight were posted but that was it. I would love to see each argument supported by at least some footage. And I don't mean posting a highlight video but selecting a game (or several) and breaking down the film.

2) Teambuilding. When players are somewhat close in impact I think teambuilding can be decisive. The individual advantages a player owns can translate into very different competitive advantages for the team. This is a generally difficult problem since it deals with unobservable circumstances. But nonetheless I think it should be a large part of the discussion.

[Outside]

Even though Outside is a relatively new poster, he has already emerged as one of the best posters on the Warriors board. Reading his posts and noticing his interest in more in-depth analysis, I was actually the one who endorsed and recommended visiting the PC board some time.

And thanks for that recommending the PC board. You were spot on.