Better Player Right Now: Giannis Antetokounmpo V Anthony Davis

[pelifan]

oh god no please no. I'm staying out of this or it will hit 20 pages.

[Magic Giannison]

Giannis, preforms far better in impact stats.

AD's argument is basically all box score driven and people remembering 2015.

What impact stats are you talking about?

AD crushes Giannis in on/off, beats him in RPM and PI RAPM.

This. Plus Davis' third season is still better than anything Giannis has done. Lot of things swirling in NO at the moment.

Davis is the better scorer, rebounder and defender. Just a bigger imprint right now.

Hugely impressive jump from G though in the last year.


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I didn't wanted to post because of my bias but il just add these as a reminded.
Giannis:

Became the 5th player in the NBA history to lead his team in all Major categories.

Became the ONLY player in NBA history to be in top 20 in all Major categories.

Giannis Antetokounmpo has clinched a 22 PTS/8 REB/5 AST/1.5 STL/1.5 BLK season, which has never been done in the History of the NBA.

Led the League in Blocks + Steals combined.


Yeah, he done nothing indeed,just carried the Bucks to 6tyh seed with 2 rookies starters, Henson and Plumlee as starters ,Snell all while losing Jabari to another ACL and Middleton return last 29 games after major injury.


Its Easy to mention AD's supporting cast but for Giannis its magically forgotten.

[NO-KG-AI]

Who said he did nothing? Don't make up stuff.

[Magic Giannison]

Who said he did nothing? Don't make up stuff.

Nobody is making stuff you are always trying to underrated Giannis.

Plus Davis' third season is still better than anything Giannis has done

That is so wrong in many ways its hilarious.

Not only that you bring the 3rd season which is totally irrelevant to RIGHT now the Op asking.

[NO-KG-AI]

Nobody is making stuff you have always trying to underrated Giannis.

Lol don't be butthurt. I said he's a grreat player and has shown an amazing improvement. You implied that I said he did nothing. That's putting words in my mouth.

He's just not as good as Davis.

No need to be angry because everyone doesn't agree that he's better than Davis and is coming up on LeBron or whatever.

[Magic Giannison]

Nobody is making stuff you have always trying to underrated Giannis.

Lol don't be butthurt. I said he's a grreat player and has shown an amazing improvement. You implied that I said he did nothing. That's putting words in my mouth.

.

No need to be angry because everyone doesn't agree that he's better than Davis and is coming up on LeBron or whatever.

Nobody is butt hurt you have specific history of underrating Giannis for ages now despite being wrong hilariously many times.

You say Giannis doesn't got anything on Davis 3rd year when Giannis literally had a history season and wrote history in 3 occasions which shows your clear bias.
When i said nothing i obviously implied nothing compared to Davis like you've said above.

He's just not as good as Davis

Yet he achieved more than Davis ever did , impacts the game on every aspect and make his teammates better which AD cannot do and is way more healthy .
The fact that you think AD is better defender than Giannis hold no ground or basis when we saw Giannis guarding opponents best players is ahead of AD on defensive metrics and is second only to Draymond is defensive versatility as he showcase this year from guarding EVERY position.

[Gibson22]

AD by far, they're not in the same class right now

[MakeItHappen]

Its gotta be Giannis for me.
Giannis is a fantastic playmaker for his team and elite on both ends of the floor , he provides much more to the team than AD . While AD is a much better shooter his impact doesn't translate into wins compared to Giannis.
Giannis creates for his teammates and helps a lot more on defensive end than AD can who's is a great paint defender.

Its close but i give the edge to Giannis in terms of production,impact',health and results.

[NO-KG-AI]

A lot of feelings getting involved here.


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[Magic Giannison]

No feelings, just facts.

EDIT: The fact im calling you out because you multiple times in the past were arguing about Giannis being Randloph.,Josh smith to ODom
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1335850&p=40679719&hilit=Giannis#p40679719
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1335850&p=40674469&hilit=Giannis#p40674469
Or other notables like here
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1343590&hilit=Giannis&start=40#start_here

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1347803&p=41296771&hilit=Giannis#p41296771


viewtopic.php?p=41996260#p41996260

I mean you got so much history of arguing against Giannis and being wrong its impressive.

[NO-KG-AI]

You just pulled up a bunch of stuff where I was debating the idea that he would be "durant lite" as a scorer, or would be the 7' Magic Johnson.

He's still neither of those things. He's grown into a marvelous player because he grew into more of what he should be, and not what people tried to push him into being. He's now amazing in transition, an awesome finisher at the rim, a solid creator, and he's made huge leaps defending multiple positions all over the floor.

I still think it's stupid to expect him to grow into a 7' Magic or to be "Durant Lite" as a scorer.

I'm not shocked that he became as good as he is at the things he does well, but I am impressed at how quickly he jumped from being not very good at them to being elite at them. I would have been wrong on my estimate of that for sure. Maybe the defender part. I'm not totally sure he'll anchor an elite defense like a true interior defender, but given his growth challenging shots, I'm open to it being possible now. Kudos to him.

No shame in being wrong about something and re-evaluating something. But just about all of what you posted was me arguing against things that were and are ridiculous. Like becoming like Durant or Magic in their stronf point.

[NO-KG-AI]

If you want to go search some more, I was huge on Greg Oden, I thought Steph Curry had no chance of being a superstar, and I initially thought Carmelo Anthony would be a better scorer than LeBron too


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[Magic Giannison]

I clearly showcased how your arguments against Giannis were thoughtout the years and there are even more i remember arguing . Don't focus on KD and Magic because that was one post. Focus more on how you called him Antony Randolph, Lamar Odom even compared with Josh smith. Then you were dead wrong about Giannis and wiggins , you used per as comparison for first year when everyone else were basically ( Bucks fans) were telling you to watch him.

I gave you the few examples out of many you have said in the past about him, read the whole threads not just selective ones.


My problem is not that you're wrong, many of us are but how you always try to downplay GIannis accomplishments and what he is doing, thats all.

[NO-KG-AI]

The passing vision thing is still closer to Lamar Odom than it is to Magic Johnson. You seemed to have missed the point with the Randolph/Odom comparisons, and it wasn't about saying he'd bust out of the league or become them. It was about tempering expectations on how good of an offensive engine you expect a guy to be, and that not every tall passer is just Magic, even though his fans insist he is.

Wiggins is a huge disappointment given his explosion and size though. I don't remember specifics of that thread nor do I really care that much. But Wiggins is a great prospect who hasn't grown as much as a basketball player as Giannis.

You just seem bitter that people criticized Giannis. But your name is Magic Giannison, and that's been the projection. It's seriously an insult to think he's growing into a Magic level offensive player.

I still think he's mostly a wing, and don't think he breaks into the level of offense needed for a wing to be an MVP in today's league.

But

Maybe he becomes a more impactful defender than I anticipated. Most guys show signs of being an anchor early, even if it takes a few years to do it all consistently. I didn't think he showed those signs initially, but he's grown into an impactful, bigman esque defender. Maybe he takes it further, and that gives him enough overall value to be MVP worthy.

My projections before this year were more Paul George level as you saw in the threads you referenced. I've adjusted since then, but I don't think that was that huge of a shift. You just took it as I hate him or think he's a bust because I don't agree with him being Magic or Durant like.


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[NO-KG-AI]

My contention all along waas that hopefully Giannis wasn't as fascinated with trying to do point guard things, and that his game would benefit more from being able to apply his athleticism to things that are more up his alley. Getting better at using his length and speed for blocks/steals, taking a big step as a finisher, and getting better on the glass is where I hoped he was focusing on improving.

He did those things better than I thought he could this early. So I'm impressed and pleased with his development. I still don't think he's as good as third year Anthony Davis. And I think Davis is better now than he was then, even if the raw box score numbers don't show it.

Like I said though. Most of the argument was based around unrealistic expectations of his passing and shooting ability.


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[Magic Giannison]

You see that's the thing, nobody saying that he Magic in terms of vision but he got better IQ and worth Ethic and odom and generally they game isnt comparable. Just because they both are point forwards doent make em same. Giannis plays the game differently and uses his length and athleticism better . While GIannis excels at making his teammates better and impacts every aspect while lamar was never that type of player , he was a good passer and had court vision but he didnt impact the game like that, also he had better cast around him .lamar never was the scorer Giannis is now at 22. Heck i would argue Giannis is closer to pippen and Marques Johnson than lamar.

Wiggins is not a disappointment, it just people were overhypping prospects like they do all the time and were wrong that doesnt mean that Wiggins isnt good .You and many others were wrong about Giannis because ignored the fact that Giannis never had the time to develop unlike Wiggins and other prospects. Giannis picked late and played his first competitive game in 2011-2012 at highschool.
The reason why Bucks fans were so sure about him is because you had to watch him play more than a few highlights to realize his talent.

You just seem bitter that people criticized Giannis. But your name is Magic Giannison, and that's been the projection. It's seriously an insult to think he's growing into a Magic level offensive player.

I am the first to admit that im the biggest Giannis homer out there but i always try to explain my position as i have seen soo much of Giannis and know so much about him that it gives me absolute confidence in him. like i was back in 2013 -14 where people were thinking that im I crazy.

Im not bitter with people taking AD over Giannis and i understand it, im very against people promoting a false narrative that holds not basis like you did by saying that Giannis this year had nothing on Davis 3rd year which you know its absolutely not wrong.
Other part is the defense , you call AD better defender when again it holds no grounds against Giannis.
Yes you saying that you would be shock if Giannis came remotely close to PG or Derozan is understandable back then but reasons of you saying them is the problem.

Like i've said, no problem in being wrong but how you're wrong.

Anyway, i wont go off topic anymore.

[NO-KG-AI]

Fair enough.

I still think Wiggins is a disappointment though. If you want new argument. Hahahah


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[Magic Giannison]

Fair enough.

I still think Wiggins is a disappointment though. If you want new argument. Hahahah


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Compared to hype he received absolutely i just was never that high on him. im never high on players that haven't played at least one year.


Wiggins is a good shooter/scorer but so far thats all he is. I haven't seem much but sometimes he seems lost and defensively is lazy?
Could be some confidence issue? I don't know but KAT is severely outshining him atm.

[Ron Swanson]

I can see an argument for either guy, but AD's "shooting advantage" is pretty overplayed. I mean, yeah, he's clearly much better from 10-16 ft and mid-range, but that's also one of the least efficient and least important shots to be able to make in today's space and pace game. The 3PT advantage is only 29% to 27%, so neither guy is good at spacing the floor yet.

Give me the guy that quite literally play any position and break down the defense/create offense for his teammates (Giannis) at a higher level. AD makes his team better in different ways through his scoring and the attention he draws through mismatches, but IMO not at a higher impact than an elite play-maker like Giannis.

[jonjames]

It's kinda close but only bc of Anthony davis injury proneness. Otherwise I got davis pretty easily. I don't trust in giannis abilty to shoot.