Offense: 16 Curry v. 18 Harden

[clyde21]

Because you're talking about a 9 ppg increase for a guy already taking 20 shots a game with 32% usage. Are you serious with this?

Curry's TS% was higher when he was shooting off-the-dribble vs. when he was shooting off-the-catch. More time on-ball = a higher TS% for Curry, and also more shots per game on average. He could've gotten to 40ppg easily if he wanted to or if the scheme changed to have him play on-ball more.

I hope you realize this is absolutely ridiculous.

Curry already took 20 shots a game. Say he bumps it to 24 shots a game (extremely difficult on its own and Curry has shown no capability of shouldering this kind of load), and 7 FT a game (again, no hint that he's capable of drawing fouls like this) from his 5.1 that season to score 40. That requires 74 TS%. You're saying he's capable of managing such a load at such an efficiency? Or is he keeping his shots and free throws at the level they are and shooting 90 TS%? Show me how he's gonna manage 40 ppg.

What kind of nonsense is this? Curry can't shoulder 7 FTAs a game? He's at 6 FTA per game this year. Why wouldn't he be able to bump that up by one and his shots by four?

In '16 he averaged 32 points per 36 minutes on 20 shots and 67.5 TS%. IIRC, his TS% of the dribble was over 70%. So yes, a slight bump in minutes, a few more shots and what likely would've been greater efficiency and he would've dropped 40 a game no problem.

Maybe you're forgetting how good Curry is offensively?

[Johnny Firpo]

A whole bunch of people ignoring Curry's playoffs.

He should be downgraded there.

How so? Curry's 2016 playoffs is still miles better than Harden's 2018, because the latter is averaging 0/0/0 in this post season.

[MisterHibachi]

Curry's TS% was higher when he was shooting off-the-dribble vs. when he was shooting off-the-catch. More time on-ball = a higher TS% for Curry, and also more shots per game on average. He could've gotten to 40ppg easily if he wanted to or if the scheme changed to have him play on-ball more.

I hope you realize this is absolutely ridiculous.

Curry already took 20 shots a game. Say he bumps it to 24 shots a game (extremely difficult on its own and Curry has shown no capability of shouldering this kind of load), and 7 FT a game (again, no hint that he's capable of drawing fouls like this) from his 5.1 that season to score 40. That requires 74 TS%. You're saying he's capable of managing such a load at such an efficiency? Or is he keeping his shots and free throws at the level they are and shooting 90 TS%? Show me how he's gonna manage 40 ppg.

What kind of nonsense is this? Curry can't shoulder 7 FTAs a game? He's at 6 FTA per game this year. Why wouldn't he be able to bump that up by one and his shots by four?

In '16 he averaged 32 points per 36 minutes on 20 shots and 67.5 TS%. IIRC, his TS% of the dribble was over 70%. So yes, a slight bump in minutes, a few more shots and what likely would've been greater efficiency and he would've dropped 40 a game no problem.

Maybe you're forgetting how good Curry is offensively?

Yeah this is a ridiculous proposition.

[thekdog34]

At about halfway through the season the Rockets ortg with only Chris Paul on was actually better.

Is that still the case?

[Bidofo]

Curry's TS% was higher when he was shooting off-the-dribble vs. when he was shooting off-the-catch. More time on-ball = a higher TS% for Curry, and also more shots per game on average. He could've gotten to 40ppg easily if he wanted to or if the scheme changed to have him play on-ball more.

I hope you realize this is absolutely ridiculous.

Curry already took 20 shots a game. Say he bumps it to 24 shots a game (extremely difficult on its own and Curry has shown no capability of shouldering this kind of load), and 7 FT a game (again, no hint that he's capable of drawing fouls like this) from his 5.1 that season to score 40. That requires 74 TS%. You're saying he's capable of managing such a load at such an efficiency? Or is he keeping his shots and free throws at the level they are and shooting 90 TS%? Show me how he's gonna manage 40 ppg.

What kind of nonsense is this? Curry can't shoulder 7 FTAs a game? He's at 6 FTA per game this year. Why wouldn't he be able to bump that up by one and his shots by four?

In '16 he averaged 32 points per 36 minutes on 20 shots and 67.5 TS%. IIRC, his TS% of the dribble was over 70%. So yes, a slight bump in minutes, a few more shots and what likely would've been greater efficiency and he would've dropped 40 a game no problem.

Maybe you're forgetting how good Curry is offensively?

According to the numbers I got from nba.com's stats page, Curry had a TS% of 61.4 on pull-ups in 2016 based on my calculations. Would love to see where you got 70% from if you can track it down. 61.4% does sound more reasonable though (since it would lower his TS and is typically harder than a catch and shoot).

[clyde21]

I hope you realize this is absolutely ridiculous.

Curry already took 20 shots a game. Say he bumps it to 24 shots a game (extremely difficult on its own and Curry has shown no capability of shouldering this kind of load), and 7 FT a game (again, no hint that he's capable of drawing fouls like this) from his 5.1 that season to score 40. That requires 74 TS%. You're saying he's capable of managing such a load at such an efficiency? Or is he keeping his shots and free throws at the level they are and shooting 90 TS%? Show me how he's gonna manage 40 ppg.

What kind of nonsense is this? Curry can't shoulder 7 FTAs a game? He's at 6 FTA per game this year. Why wouldn't he be able to bump that up by one and his shots by four?

In '16 he averaged 32 points per 36 minutes on 20 shots and 67.5 TS%. IIRC, his TS% of the dribble was over 70%. So yes, a slight bump in minutes, a few more shots and what likely would've been greater efficiency and he would've dropped 40 a game no problem.

Maybe you're forgetting how good Curry is offensively?

According to the numbers I got from nba.com's stats page, Curry had a TS% of 61.4 on pull-ups in 2016 based on my calculations. Would love to see where you got 70% from if you can track it down. 61.4% does sound more reasonable though (since it would lower his TS and is typically harder than a catch and shoot).

I'm not talking about pull up 3s. I'm talking about off the dribble vs off the catch.

[Bidofo]

What kind of nonsense is this? Curry can't shoulder 7 FTAs a game? He's at 6 FTA per game this year. Why wouldn't he be able to bump that up by one and his shots by four?

In '16 he averaged 32 points per 36 minutes on 20 shots and 67.5 TS%. IIRC, his TS% of the dribble was over 70%. So yes, a slight bump in minutes, a few more shots and what likely would've been greater efficiency and he would've dropped 40 a game no problem.

Maybe you're forgetting how good Curry is offensively?

According to the numbers I got from nba.com's stats page, Curry had a TS% of 61.4 on pull-ups in 2016 based on my calculations. Would love to see where you got 70% from if you can track it down. 61.4% does sound more reasonable though (since it would lower his TS and is typically harder than a catch and shoot).

I'm not talking about pull up 3s. I'm talking about off the dribble vs off the catch.

Ah, went back and recalculated. Their stats page is so inconvenient imo smh.

Anyway, 2016 Curry after 1 or more dribbles has a TS% of 63.8% according to my calculations. Again, I'd like your source if possible.

[clyde21]

According to the numbers I got from nba.com's stats page, Curry had a TS% of 61.4 on pull-ups in 2016 based on my calculations. Would love to see where you got 70% from if you can track it down. 61.4% does sound more reasonable though (since it would lower his TS and is typically harder than a catch and shoot).

I'm not talking about pull up 3s. I'm talking about off the dribble vs off the catch.

Ah, went back and recalculated. Their stats page is so inconvenient imo smh.

Anyway, 2016 Curry after 1 or more dribbles has a TS% of 63.8% according to my calculations. Again, I'd like your source if possible.

I'll look for it. It was a Twitter stats page. Let me take a look at yours.

[Bidofo]

I'm not talking about pull up 3s. I'm talking about off the dribble vs off the catch.

Ah, went back and recalculated. Their stats page is so inconvenient imo smh.

Anyway, 2016 Curry after 1 or more dribbles has a TS% of 63.8% according to my calculations. Again, I'd like your source if possible.

I'll look for it. It was a Twitter stats page. Let me take a look at yours.

Used https://stats.nba.com/players/shots-dribbles/for the stats and https://captaincalculator.com/sports/basketball/true-shooting-percentage-calculator/ as the calculator. I counted 16.6 points on 13 shots off the dribble.

[dhsilv2]

Harden has been a monster but '16 Curry is the GOAT offensive RS for me.

Also keep in mind '18 Harden spends a lot more time on-ball than Curry. '16 Curry has 46% of his shots assisted vs. 17% for Harden this year.

Curry could've scored 40 a game in his sleep that season.

On-ball v. off-ball isn't really a big difference when they're both producing 119 ORtg on-court. If Curry could've done better than what he did if he played more on-ball, he should've.

Team or individual? If it's individual then that ORtg has points from possetions they use, offball wouldn't be factored into that at all.

[Jaivl]

Aaaaand this is the problem of arguing only for the sake of defending a preconceived notion.

Don't do that, guys.

[dhsilv2]

A whole bunch of people ignoring Curry's playoffs.

He should be downgraded there.

nah, playoffs are extra credit.

[dhsilv2]

Harden has been a monster but '16 Curry is the GOAT offensive RS for me.

Also keep in mind '18 Harden spends a lot more time on-ball than Curry. '16 Curry had 46% of his shots assisted vs. 17% for Harden this year.

Curry could've scored 40 a game in his sleep that season had he played on-ball as much as Harden.

I'm not saying that Harden is better offensive player overall than Curry (he's not in my opinion) but it doesn't work that way. Curry is not better on ball and he's not capable of recreating what Harden is doing now. He doesn't have to, as you said he's much better off ball player which makes him more portable player but Steph is not as good
Isolation scorer as Harden, he doesn't have Harden size and he can't draw as much fouls. He's also lesser playmaker, though not as much as assists numbers suggest.

What if he played more minutes? he was at nearly 32 per 36. I don't see 40, but if he could play 40 minutes a game and was shooting a bit more, I could see 36-38 range being very real.

[clyde21]

We should probably be comparing Harden's '18 to Curry's 18. 16 Curry is just on another level.

[clyde21]

Harden has been a monster but '16 Curry is the GOAT offensive RS for me.

Also keep in mind '18 Harden spends a lot more time on-ball than Curry. '16 Curry had 46% of his shots assisted vs. 17% for Harden this year.

Curry could've scored 40 a game in his sleep that season had he played on-ball as much as Harden.

I'm not saying that Harden is better offensive player overall than Curry (he's not in my opinion) but it doesn't work that way. Curry is not better on ball and he's not capable of recreating what Harden is doing now. He doesn't have to, as you said he's much better off ball player which makes him more portable player but Steph is not as good
Isolation scorer as Harden, he doesn't have Harden size and he can't draw as much fouls. He's also lesser playmaker, though not as much as assists numbers suggest.

What if he played more minutes? he was at nearly 32 per 36. I don't see 40, but if he could play 40 minutes a game and was shooting a bit more, I could see 36-38 range being very real.

Well, not only that, but he didn't play in almost 20 fourth quarters. There were many games where he went completely off and had to sit the 4th.

[MisterHibachi]

Harden has been a monster but '16 Curry is the GOAT offensive RS for me.

Also keep in mind '18 Harden spends a lot more time on-ball than Curry. '16 Curry has 46% of his shots assisted vs. 17% for Harden this year.

Curry could've scored 40 a game in his sleep that season.

On-ball v. off-ball isn't really a big difference when they're both producing 119 ORtg on-court. If Curry could've done better than what he did if he played more on-ball, he should've.

Team or individual? If it's individual then that ORtg has points from possetions they use, offball wouldn't be factored into that at all.

On-court team rating.

[MisterHibachi]

We should probably be comparing Harden's '18 to Curry's 18. 16 Curry is just on another level.

When healthy how is 18 Curry not better than 16? He's a comparable shooter, a little worse percentages on less volume but still the same threat and a better driver and finisher. 18 Curry is clearly better than 18 Harden and 16 Curry.

[oldschooled]

Classic case of what have you done for me lately

[dhsilv2]

On-ball v. off-ball isn't really a big difference when they're both producing 119 ORtg on-court. If Curry could've done better than what he did if he played more on-ball, he should've.

Team or individual? If it's individual then that ORtg has points from possetions they use, offball wouldn't be factored into that at all.

On-court team rating.

Gotcha, I'm not sure that's really a good stats here given imo at least Harden has a better offensive team. Capella + Paul is imo a huge step up from Klay and Dray offensively.

[70sFan]

Harden has been a monster but '16 Curry is the GOAT offensive RS for me.

Also keep in mind '18 Harden spends a lot more time on-ball than Curry. '16 Curry had 46% of his shots assisted vs. 17% for Harden this year.

Curry could've scored 40 a game in his sleep that season had he played on-ball as much as Harden.

I'm not saying that Harden is better offensive player overall than Curry (he's not in my opinion) but it doesn't work that way. Curry is not better on ball and he's not capable of recreating what Harden is doing now. He doesn't have to, as you said he's much better off ball player which makes him more portable player but Steph is not as good
Isolation scorer as Harden, he doesn't have Harden size and he can't draw as much fouls. He's also lesser playmaker, though not as much as assists numbers suggest.

What if he played more minutes? he was at nearly 32 per 36. I don't see 40, but if he could play 40 minutes a game and was shooting a bit more, I could see 36-38 range being very real.

But it doesn't work that way. Curry played 38 mpg once in his career. He didn't prove he could do that. Besides, more minutes wouldn't make him more efficient. It's not logical, more stress on the body makes you less effective in what you do. Playing 40 minutes on the ball is much different than doing what Curry is doing. I'm not saying it's harder, but it's different and Curry is the best when he can play both on and off the ball.

Also, saying that his TS% would increase because he was more efficient on pull-ups than catch and shoots is funny. Pull-up shot is not always shot created in isolation. Sometimes it's catch, two dribbles and shoot. There is no way that Curry would average 40 ppg on 70% TS. He was not close to that and nobody has ever been. Stop making Curry god, he had one of the best seasons ever but he wasn't that good.