#2 Best Defensive Shooting Guard of all time - The ten best defenders in each position project

Samurai · Post #21 » by **Samurai** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:05 pm

My vote is for Sidney Moncrief. He is the only player on this list of candidates with more than one DPOY award. Moncrief, Rodman and Leonard are the only non-centers in the history of the DPOY award to win back-to-back awards. And if such an award existed, I think he would have had a good chance of winning in 82, which would have made him a 3-peat winner. Moncrief also played over 5,000 more total minutes than Tony Allen.

Joao Saraiva · Post #22 » by **Joao Saraiva** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:38 pm

As much as I'd like to participate I don't feel nearly as comfortable as I wish I was with players before the 80s. So I usually try to stay out of all time projects. Sorry man, but I'm enjoying the reading.

cecilthesheep · Post #23 » by **cecilthesheep** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:45 pm

MJ at #1 is ... disappointing.

I vote for Sidney Moncrief again.

SHAQ32 · Post #24 » by **SHAQ32** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:56 pm

Voting for Sidney Moncrief

AdagioPace · Post #25 » by **AdagioPace** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:29 am

OP: I would like to be removed from the list of notified users. I don't have enough knowledge to contribute in original ways but I will keep following and reading the project as I did with the PGs.

ElectricMayhem · Post #26 » by **ElectricMayhem** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:10 am

This is a tough one, but I'm voting for Tony Allen. The way he would just step up and hound defenders without getting beat was tremendous. Moncrief, from the videos I watched, was very good, but this is Allen for me.

mdonnelly1989 · Post #27 » by **mdonnelly1989** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:34 am

1A: Tony Allen
1B: Moncrief...

Although I'm going to give the VERY SLIGHT nod to my boy Allen who Kobe said was the best defensive player he ever played against...

OdomFan · Post #28 » by **OdomFan** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:04 am

MJ is one of the most elite defenders the game ever had period. He's number 1 imo.

Gibson22 · Post #29 » by **Gibson22** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:30 am

OdomFan wrote:MJ is one of the most elite defenders the game ever had period. He's number 1 imo.

Well he alredy went as number 1

Sublime187 · Post #30 » by **Sublime187** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:22 am

How the hell is MJ number one when he can't even put consistent effort due to offensive responsibilities? If this is based on mere peak moments then LeBron should be the number one SF defender as well.

pandrade83 · Post #31 » by **pandrade83** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:54 pm

Sid. The Bucks leveled up in a material way defensively once he hit an elite level ('81) and had improved as he became a bigger part of the team. They stayed elite through '86 even though they turned over their entire Top 7 & fell off quickly as he exited. The eye test backs him, he's got the accoldaes & for that brief 6 year run (is it REALLY that brief)? he was outstanding. Had the Bucks been in the West, maybe they sneak into the Finals one year (or more).

SinceGatlingWasARookie · Post #32 » by **SinceGatlingWasARookie** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:39 pm

Vote Moncrief

bledredwine · Post #33 » by **bledredwine** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:11 pm

Sublime187 wrote:How the hell is MJ number one when he can't even put consistent effort due to offensive responsibilities? If this is based on mere peak moments then LeBron should be the number one SF defender as well.

lol!

1. What? When did Jordan take games off guarding his matchup?

2. Oh you brought Lebron into this.

I get it now. No surprise.

Lebron has nothing to do with this thread, and he’s nowhere near the top SF defender.
That said, you owe it to yourself to watch some young Jordan before making rash/false assertions.

KnickFan33 · Post #34 » by **KnickFan33** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:57 pm

Moncrief

Edit: I think you might get more participation by simply adding a poll. Choose 9 candidates most likely to receive votes, and add 1 for other. If other gets picked, that person names player they're voting for, and said player gets rotated in over a player with less votes for the next poll.

kendogg · Post #35 » by **kendogg** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:06 pm

I vote Michael Cooper. Incredible defender and very versatile as well. Was the lockdown defender of one of the best teams of all time. Has the peak (DPOY as a guard is very rare and came late in his career as well) and has the longevity (8x all defense). 5x champion, and that matters because the competition is the toughest in the playoffs.

Post #36 » by **trex_8063** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:18 pm

PistolPeteJR wrote:Get out of here with these MJ at #1 man. This list is already poisoned.

Sid again.

cecilthesheep wrote:MJ at #1 is ... disappointing.

I vote for Sidney Moncrief again.

Why, exactly?

Both of you had opportunity to refute or otherwise provide counterpoints to the arguments made for Jordan in the last thread; neither of you did (other than one of you stating you didn't think he belongs (but you saying it doesn't make it so)).

For that matter, neither of you provided much by way of arguments FOR Moncrief either, instead opting to refer to posts made by others in Moncrief's favour (stating that pretty well covered it).......though at the point in the thread where you made those comments, the only arguments made for Moncrief were largely anecdotal (eye-test) in nature, other than mentions of his two DPOY's.

And finally, I made a rather lengthy----and somewhat more "evidence-based"----post stating why I would NOT be lending Moncrief my vote for #1. Both of you had opportunity to poke holes in that or otherwise provide counter-point; neither of you did.

So it's then kinda frustrating when you come into thread #2 poo-pooing on a result you don't like.

PistolPeteJR · Post #37 » by **PistolPeteJR** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:43 pm

trex_8063 wrote:
PistolPeteJR wrote:Get out of here with these MJ at #1 man. This list is already poisoned.

Sid again.

cecilthesheep wrote:MJ at #1 is ... disappointing.

I vote for Sidney Moncrief again.

Why, exactly?

Both of you had opportunity to refute or otherwise provide counterpoints to the arguments made for Jordan in the last thread; neither of you did (other than one of you stating you didn't think he belongs (but you saying it doesn't make it so)).

For that matter, neither of you provided much by way of arguments FOR Moncrief either, instead opting to refer to posts made by others in Moncrief's favour (stating that pretty well covered it).......though at the point in the thread where you made those comments, the only arguments made for Moncrief were largely anecdotal (eye-test) in nature, other than mentions of his two DPOY's.

And finally, I made a rather lengthy----and somewhat more "evidence-based"----post stating why I would NOT be lending Moncrief my vote for #1. Both of you had opportunity to poke holes in that or otherwise provide counter-point; neither of you did.

So it's then kinda frustrating when you come into thread #2 poo-pooing on a result you don't like.

Everything that I'd say has been said. Why would I copy/paste what's been said? In the face your rebuttals, well I'm not on here 24/7, so I'm sorry.

pandrade83 · Post #38 » by **pandrade83** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:27 pm

trex_8063 wrote:
PistolPeteJR wrote:Get out of here with these MJ at #1 man. This list is already poisoned.

Sid again.

cecilthesheep wrote:MJ at #1 is ... disappointing.

I vote for Sidney Moncrief again.

Why, exactly?

Both of you had opportunity to refute or otherwise provide counterpoints to the arguments made for Jordan in the last thread; neither of you did (other than one of you stating you didn't think he belongs (but you saying it doesn't make it so)).

For that matter, neither of you provided much by way of arguments FOR Moncrief either, instead opting to refer to posts made by others in Moncrief's favour (stating that pretty well covered it).......though at the point in the thread where you made those comments, the only arguments made for Moncrief were largely anecdotal (eye-test) in nature, other than mentions of his two DPOY's.

And finally, I made a rather lengthy----and somewhat more "evidence-based"----post stating why I would NOT be lending Moncrief my vote for #1. Both of you had opportunity to poke holes in that or otherwise provide counter-point; neither of you did.

So it's then kinda frustrating when you come into thread #2 poo-pooing on a result you don't like.

Due to some RL issues going on I haven't been able to give as in-depth a response -however - my biggest counter-argument for Sid is that the Bucks improved dramatically as his role became larger; they faded off quickly as he phased out - in between they overhauled their entire Top 7 around him (that is - '81 vs. '86) - & still maintained an elite defense. I know it's a simplistic way of looking at it - but he was the constant.

Gibson22 · Post #39 » by **Gibson22** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:07 pm

KnickFan33 wrote:Moncrief

Edit: I think you might get more participation by simply adding a poll. Choose 9 candidates most likely to receive votes, and add 1 for other. If other gets picked, that person names player they're voting for, and said player gets rotated in over a player with less votes for the next poll.

Yeah I know, but at least for now, I'd prefer to do it this way

Gibson22 · Post #40 » by **Gibson22** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:31 pm

Sublime187 wrote:How the hell is MJ number one when he can't even put consistent effort due to offensive responsibilities? If this is based on mere peak moments then LeBron should be the number one SF defender as well.

Because, first of all, he did play great defense very often before 1995, and he had crazy defensive tools, and the SG positions doesn't have the defensive quality of the SFs, or the bigs, obviously. If you look at the list you'll see a lot of 6'3 guys, a lot of guys who are either not big enough, not athletic enough etc. The only guys in the same stratosphere as MJ are tony allen, moncrief, cooper. joe dumars and alvin robertson are extremely good but not close. look at those guys in the list.

MJ in my opinion as a good defender is extremely great but slighly worse than the best defenders ever (for example, im sure that rodman and pippen were better than him), but in this list, it is not incorrect to call him the best.

you could easily say that the few guys that have a case over mj, played too much minutes less than MJ, in the opinion of some people.