Greater: Kobe Bryant vs Stephen Curry

[kulaz3000]

Kobe, and that's because Kobe at his peak was a great player on both ends of the floor.

[CIN-C-STAR]

Curry had a higher offensive peak, but Kobe was a significantly better defender.
Kobe also had greater longevity, assuming a normal decline curve for Curry. Kobe was also the unquestioned best player on two title teams, while Curry only one. Curry also doesn't have a FMVP, while Kobe has 2.

It's a good comparison, but I feel like it's Kobe pretty comfortably tbh.

on ball defense for guards is so overrated in these discussions...the offensive gap between them is wider than defense...there's a reason Stephs impact metrics are infinitely better despite Kobe being a "way better defender"

I made one passing mention of it, and I'm overrating it?
So properly rating defense for you would be, what exactly? Never mentioning it as an aspect of the sport at all?

Btw, Kobe's career offensive win shares is way higher than Curry's. It's not even close. Same with VORP.
Not sure what impact metrics you are referring to. Curry has him beat in OBPM, but that's it.

[TheProfessor]

As of now it's Kobe. I don't think Curry really has a case YET, when it's all said in done, pretty sure I've have Steph over Kobe. A better comparison would be Wade vs Curry.

[GeorgeMarcus]

I'm a big Steph fan, but it will be hard for Steph to be greater than Kobe with the amount of defensive accolades that Kobe has under his belt. Kobe was all defensive 1st team 9 times!

A lot worse offensively though, and some of those defensive awards were by reputation

A lot worse? Are you just going off percentages?

How do you personally conclude that an award is given by reputation? I'm just curious?

His offensive impact is on a different level than Kobe's. I can throw out all the impact metrics that demonstrate as much, but that doesn't resonate with everybody. So I'll do it by efficiency.

By TS%:

Spoiler:

17-18 Curry: 67.5
15-16 Curry: 66.9
18-19 Curry: 64.1
14-15 Curry: 63.8
16-17 Curry: 62.4
13-14 Curry: 61.0
11-12 Curry: 60.5
10-11 Curry: 59.5
12-13 Curry: 58.9
06-07 Kobe: 58.0
07-08 Kobe: 57.6
12-13 Kobe: 57.0
09-10 Curry: 56.8
04-05 Kobe: 56.3
08-09 Kobe: 56.1
05-06 Kobe: 55.9
00-01 Kobe: 55.2
03-04 Kobe: 55.1
02-03 Kobe: 55.0
98-99 Kobe: 54.9
97-98 Kobe: 54.8
10-11 Kobe: 54.8
99-00 Kobe: 54.6
09-10 Kobe: 54.5
96-97 Kobe: 54.4
01-02 Kobe: 54.4
11-12 Kobe: 52.7
13-14 Kobe: 50.5
14-15 Kobe: 47.7
15-16 Kobe: 46.9

Beyond that, Curry's off ball gravity and ability to play within the flow of the offense is more valuable than Kobe's iso-mode.

Regarding your question about defense, it really comes down to his defensive impact not aligning with his accomplishments. You'll find this to be a consensus opinion on the PC board, not that you should just believe what other people tell you.

[DS17]

Kobe obviously. How the heck is the poll 22-14?! Should be 20-2 IMO. Either we have alot of millenials on this website (probably true) and alot of haters who saw Kobe beat their teams in dominant fashion from 1998-2013 (also true).

Y'all disgust me.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Kobe obviously. How the heck is the poll 22-14?! Should be 20-2 IMO. Either we have alot of millenials on this website (probably true) and alot of haters who saw Kobe beat their teams in dominant fashion from 1998-2013 (also true).

Y'all disgust me.

It's less a criticism of Kobe and more a recognition of Steph's greatness, which generally gets underrated. It's kind of like how Duncan was underrated for a while, because he always prioritized winning over personal glory.

How you gonna look at those efficiency numbers above and pretend like Steph doesn't have an argument? They're both volume scorers, and at this rate Steph will wind up with the same number of rings. Don't you dare say "Kevin Durant" when Kobe had peak Shaq for his 3peat.

[Asianiac_24]

Curry's season pre-Finals in 2016 was easily better than Kobe has ever came close to. Its a shame he bombed and choked in such dramatic fashion in the Finals that year. Other than 2016, all his other seasons isn't quite there that can make up the longevity difference. Kobe right now easily IMO career wise, but Curry has the ability to change that.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Kobe obviously. How the heck is the poll 22-14?! Should be 20-2 IMO. Either we have alot of millenials on this website (probably true) and alot of haters who saw Kobe beat their teams in dominant fashion from 1998-2013 (also true).

Y'all disgust me.

It's less a criticism of Kobe and more a recognition of Steph's greatness, which generally gets underrated. It's kind of like how Duncan was underrated for a while, because he always prioritized winning over personal glory.

How you gonna look at those efficiency numbers above and pretend like Steph doesn't have an argument? They're both volume scorers, and at this rate Steph will wind up with the same number of rings. Don't you dare say "Kevin Durant" when Kobe had Shaq for his 3peat.

Curry isn't beating Kawhi or Lebron in the west these next couple of years and than he will be 34 years old, I would put money on him not winning another ring.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Kobe obviously. How the heck is the poll 22-14?! Should be 20-2 IMO. Either we have alot of millenials on this website (probably true) and alot of haters who saw Kobe beat their teams in dominant fashion from 1998-2013 (also true).

Y'all disgust me.

It's less a criticism of Kobe and more a recognition of Steph's greatness, which generally gets underrated. It's kind of like how Duncan was underrated for a while, because he always prioritized winning over personal glory.

How you gonna look at those efficiency numbers above and pretend like Steph doesn't have an argument? They're both volume scorers, and at this rate Steph will wind up with the same number of rings. Don't you dare say "Kevin Durant" when Kobe had Shaq for his 3peat.

Curry isn't beating Kawhi or Lebron in the west these next couple of years and than he will be 34 years old, I would put money on him not winning another ring.

Disagree but I know your opinion on Kawhi so I won't bother

[PaulLee]

A lot worse offensively though, and some of those defensive awards were by reputation

A lot worse? Are you just going off percentages?

How do you personally conclude that an award is given by reputation? I'm just curious?

His offensive impact is on a different level than Kobe's. I can throw out all the impact metrics that demonstrate as much, but that doesn't resonate with everybody. So I'll do it by efficiency.

By TS%:

Spoiler:

17-18 Curry: 67.5
15-16 Curry: 66.9
18-19 Curry: 64.1
14-15 Curry: 63.8
16-17 Curry: 62.4
13-14 Curry: 61.0
11-12 Curry: 60.5
10-11 Curry: 59.5
12-13 Curry: 58.9
06-07 Kobe: 58.0
07-08 Kobe: 57.6
12-13 Kobe: 57.0
09-10 Curry: 56.8
04-05 Kobe: 56.3
08-09 Kobe: 56.1
05-06 Kobe: 55.9
00-01 Kobe: 55.2
03-04 Kobe: 55.1
02-03 Kobe: 55.0
98-99 Kobe: 54.9
97-98 Kobe: 54.8
10-11 Kobe: 54.8
99-00 Kobe: 54.6
09-10 Kobe: 54.5
96-97 Kobe: 54.4
01-02 Kobe: 54.4
11-12 Kobe: 52.7
13-14 Kobe: 50.5
14-15 Kobe: 47.7
15-16 Kobe: 46.9

Beyond that, Curry's off ball gravity and ability to play within the flow of the offense is more valuable than Kobe's iso-mode.

Regarding your question about defense, it really comes down the his defensive impact not aligning with his accomplishments. You'll find this to be a consensus opinion on the PC board, not that you should just believe what other people tell you.

I mean you cant really disagree with blatant stat comparisons which are as alarming as their TS% are here, but there's so much more to take into account when comparing their offensive value. I'm sure Steph would eventually come out on top if we did, but i'm not so sure if i would say by "a lot".

If we compared their defensive statistics, would we have a similar gap but with Kobe on top, or would you say it is closer?

[clyde21]

Curry had a higher offensive peak, but Kobe was a significantly better defender.
Kobe also had greater longevity, assuming a normal decline curve for Curry. Kobe was also the unquestioned best player on two title teams, while Curry only one. Curry also doesn't have a FMVP, while Kobe has 2.

It's a good comparison, but I feel like it's Kobe pretty comfortably tbh.

on ball defense for guards is so overrated in these discussions...the offensive gap between them is wider than defense...there's a reason Stephs impact metrics are infinitely better despite Kobe being a "way better defender"

I made one passing mention of it, and I'm overrating it?
So properly rating defense for you would be, what exactly? Never mentioning it as an aspect of the sport at all?

Btw, Kobe's career offensive win shares is way higher than Curry's. It's not even close. Same with VORP.
Not sure what impact metrics you are referring to. Curry has him beat in OBPM, but that's it.

no, but you're clearly putting way too much weight into it, perimeter defense on ball is quite overrated, it's more about help defense really, it's why a guy like Tony Allen never sniffed an all star game despite being one of the best defenders ever...

and of course Kobe will have a higher VORP and OWS...these are cumulative stats...Steph beats Kobe in WS/48, BPM, PER, TS% and On-Off and it's not really all that close (except for PER)...Kobe's best TS% season for example ranks as Steph's NINTH best...and Steph's only been in the league 10 years

really...Kobe's only 2 arguments are on-ball defense and longevity, everything else the edge goes to Steph tbh.

[HeartBreakKid]

on ball defense for guards is so overrated in these discussions...the offensive gap between them is wider than defense...there's a reason Stephs impact metrics are infinitely better despite Kobe being a "way better defender"

I made one passing mention of it, and I'm overrating it?
So properly rating defense for you would be, what exactly? Never mentioning it as an aspect of the sport at all?

Btw, Kobe's career offensive win shares is way higher than Curry's. It's not even close. Same with VORP.
Not sure what impact metrics you are referring to. Curry has him beat in OBPM, but that's it.

no, but you're clearly putting way too much weight into it, perimeter defense on ball is quite overrated, it's more about help defense really, it's why a guy like Tony Allen never sniffed an all star game despite being one of the best defenders ever...

and of course Kobe will have a higher VORP and OWS...these are cumulative stats...Steph beats Kobe in WS/48, BPM, PER, TS% and On-Off and it's not really all that close (except for PER)...Kobe's best TS% season for example ranks as Steph's NINTH best...and Steph's only been in the league 10 years

really...Kobe's only 2 arguments are on-ball defense and longevity, everything else the edge goes to Steph tbh.

Actually it's pretty much entirely because he played few minutes due to being bad on offense...

[HeartBreakKid]

Kobe obviously. How the heck is the poll 22-14?! Should be 20-2 IMO. Either we have alot of millenials on this website (probably true) and alot of haters who saw Kobe beat their teams in dominant fashion from 1998-2013 (also true).

Y'all disgust me.

This doesn't make any sense....

You think Kobe is better - but you think the poll should be 20-2...as in you think 2 people should arbitrarily think Curry should be better? It's like you don't know how polls work.

Also, do you know what a millennial is? I mean I am seriously shocked - you do realize that millennial grew up with Kobe Bryant not Stephen Curry right lmao. Millennial are in their 30s - so they would have nostalgia for Kobe Bryant. What do you think a millennial is, a 15 year old in 2019?

[clyde21]

I made one passing mention of it, and I'm overrating it?
So properly rating defense for you would be, what exactly? Never mentioning it as an aspect of the sport at all?

Btw, Kobe's career offensive win shares is way higher than Curry's. It's not even close. Same with VORP.
Not sure what impact metrics you are referring to. Curry has him beat in OBPM, but that's it.

no, but you're clearly putting way too much weight into it, perimeter defense on ball is quite overrated, it's more about help defense really, it's why a guy like Tony Allen never sniffed an all star game despite being one of the best defenders ever...

and of course Kobe will have a higher VORP and OWS...these are cumulative stats...Steph beats Kobe in WS/48, BPM, PER, TS% and On-Off and it's not really all that close (except for PER)...Kobe's best TS% season for example ranks as Steph's NINTH best...and Steph's only been in the league 10 years

really...Kobe's only 2 arguments are on-ball defense and longevity, everything else the edge goes to Steph tbh.

Actually it's pretty much entirely because he played few minutes due to being bad on offense...

well exactly, but what if he was that good offensively instead of defensively? offense and defense are just not weighted the same...a great offensive guard is way more valuable than a great defensive guard.

[LakerLegend]

With the numbers Harden is putting up in this era Kobe would be pushing 40/10/10 averages.

[nzahir]

Its incredibly tough for now to rank a guy like Curry and even KD.

Curry has 0 fmvps and won 1 ring without KD in a year where the cavs lost 2 of their top 3 guys. On top of Delly going to the hospital and Shump playing hurt for half the series.

KD has 2 rings and 2 fmvps, but also didn't accomplish too much without Curry.

For now, Curry doesn't have the longevity, fmvp(s), and the big shot moments. On top of him never being able to touch Kobe defensively in his prime. This is all coming from a guy who doesn't like kobe and thinks he is one of the most overrated players of all time (for people who think hes top 3-5)

So I'm going Kobe. If Curry was to win a ring or two on his own and win 1-2 fmvp, this could swing in Curry's favor

[traax]

With the numbers Harden is putting up in this era Kobe would be pushing 40/10/10 averages.

Harden is better offensive player than Kober ever was. In basically every aspect of the game.
Nostalgia really clouds peoples perspective.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Its incredibly tough for now to rank a guy like Curry and even KD.

Curry has 0 fmvps and won 1 ring without KD in a year where the cavs lost 2 of their top 3 guys. On top of Delly going to the hospital and Shump playing hurt for half the series.

KD has 2 rings and 2 fmvps, but also didn't accomplish too much without Curry.

For now, Curry doesn't have the longevity, fmvp(s), and the big shot moments. On top of him never being able to touch Kobe defensively in his prime. This is all coming from a guy who doesn't like kobe and thinks he is one of the most overrated players of all time (for people who think hes top 3-5)

So I'm going Kobe. If Curry was to win a ring or two on his own and win 1-2 fmvp, this could swing in Curry's favor

Exactly, Curry beat a 1 man team in the 2015 finals and than choked in 2016. 2017\2018 he would of been a clown to lose with KD\Klay\Dray all on his team. I don't see how he's ever going to win another title unless he takes advantage of a 1 man team in the finals again.

[CodeBreaker]

With the numbers Harden is putting up in this era Kobe would be pushing 40/10/10 averages.

Harden is better offensive player than Kober ever was. In basically every aspect of the game.
Nostalgia really clouds peoples perspective.

LOL. Basketball isn't played on an excel spreadsheet and then you just read their numbers.

[GeorgeMarcus]

A lot worse? Are you just going off percentages?

How do you personally conclude that an award is given by reputation? I'm just curious?

His offensive impact is on a different level than Kobe's. I can throw out all the impact metrics that demonstrate as much, but that doesn't resonate with everybody. So I'll do it by efficiency.

By TS%:

Spoiler:

17-18 Curry: 67.5
15-16 Curry: 66.9
18-19 Curry: 64.1
14-15 Curry: 63.8
16-17 Curry: 62.4
13-14 Curry: 61.0
11-12 Curry: 60.5
10-11 Curry: 59.5
12-13 Curry: 58.9
06-07 Kobe: 58.0
07-08 Kobe: 57.6
12-13 Kobe: 57.0
09-10 Curry: 56.8
04-05 Kobe: 56.3
08-09 Kobe: 56.1
05-06 Kobe: 55.9
00-01 Kobe: 55.2
03-04 Kobe: 55.1
02-03 Kobe: 55.0
98-99 Kobe: 54.9
97-98 Kobe: 54.8
10-11 Kobe: 54.8
99-00 Kobe: 54.6
09-10 Kobe: 54.5
96-97 Kobe: 54.4
01-02 Kobe: 54.4
11-12 Kobe: 52.7
13-14 Kobe: 50.5
14-15 Kobe: 47.7
15-16 Kobe: 46.9

Beyond that, Curry's off ball gravity and ability to play within the flow of the offense is more valuable than Kobe's iso-mode.

Regarding your question about defense, it really comes down the his defensive impact not aligning with his accomplishments. You'll find this to be a consensus opinion on the PC board, not that you should just believe what other people tell you.

I mean you cant really disagree with blatant stat comparisons which are as alarming as their TS% are here, but there's so much more to take into account when comparing their offensive value. I'm sure Steph would eventually come out on top if we did, but i'm not so sure if i would say by "a lot".

If we compared their defensive statistics, would we have a similar gap but with Kobe on top, or would you say it is closer?

Believe it or not, Curry has the advantage if you look at their DRPM over the years. Nothing major but clear enough that I don't have to calculate the averages (and a few seasons better ranking/rating than Kobe's best).

Curry is better at playing the passing lanes, despite being a worse on-ball defender than Kobe. Generally people overrate on-ball perimeter defense, which I think created the disconnect between perception/reality.

I'm not trying to knock Kobe (besides his defense being overrated). Curry is just that good. Top 3 in RAPM each of the last 5 years, when no other player has more than 1 in that span. Think about that... Kobe was top 3 once in 20 seasons. There's no bias or secret to RAPM, it's +/- data weighted for teammates/opponents. The only danger of RAPM is sample size, but 5 years is more than enough to draw conclusions (generally you need 2-3).