2019-20 Player of the Year Voting Thread (Winners: LeBron, AD, Ja...)

[eminence]

Almost forgot about this, yikes. Just a POY vote here for me.

POY
1. LeBron James - Another one. Wowsers. I find it's by a fairly large margin as well. He was my reasonably close #2 through the RS and then led his team to a dominant title. I value his contributions to the Lakers notably over AD's even in the playoffs where AD was playing at a level I hadn't consistently seen from him before ('01 Lakers vibes, though not that dominant).

2. James Harden - #3 after the RS, played well in the playoffs, narrowly avoiding the disaster of losing to CP3 after trading him. Beat soundly in the second round, but never had much of a chance there, think he was the 2nd best player in that series behind LeBron. Hold trading CP3 against him, but didn't feel the competition for #2 was particularly strong this season.

3. Anthony Davis - He was outside my top 10 similar to Jimmy after the RS. Played extremely well through the entirety of the playoffs though, I didn't expect that level of consistency from him. Still the clear #2 on the Lakers to LeBron in my mind and didn't outplay Harden by enough (or at all imo) to get by him.

4. Nikola Jokic - My #5 coming into the playoffs (though probably closer to 10th than 4th), Giannis's injury and directly outplaying Kawhi down the stretch catapulted him up the rankings. By far most impressed with his Clippers series, absolutely ate their smaller dudes alive. Good in his other series, but notably less impressive. A couple bounces one way or another and he would not be on this list (or one stupid 8 second violation).

5. Kawhi Leonard - #4 through the RS for me, had a chance to take #2, but Jokic ate his lunch and this is where he winds up. In all honesty I still think he was solid in their loss though his clutch reputation took a big hit. Really did seem to be wearing down as the playoffs went on.

HM- Giannis - I thought about this one long and hard, but I've pretty consistently dinged guys seriously for playoff injuries that cost their team and this one certainly cost his team - in my mind the ding up cost them in game 3 and then he wasn't there at all for the closeout game and missed most of game 4 though his contributions were important. I don't feel great about him hypothetically returning/playing well after that. If he'd just played kinda poorly and lost he might have finished as high as #2, but that's not what happened.

HM #2 - Butler - Monstrous Finals, and a strong 2nd round but not enough to overcome a more mediocre RS (somewhere in that 10-15 range). Maybe with a healthy squad he could've got the job done. I'll certainly be watching him even more closely next season.

[Jordan Syndrome]

Player of the Year:

1. LeBron James
2. Anthony Davis

I am confident in these selections as #1 and #2 and my primary focus will be on Davis rather than LeBron.

For LeBron, he did what he has done since 2012--Player of the Year when healthy. He can do more on the court than any player to ever play the game and his mind at this point in his is unbreakable. Watching LeBron pick apart teams both offensively and defensively over the course of a series is majestic to watch. He put together another all-time great post-season, leading the post-season in VORP, scoring at freaking levels, both volume and efficiency, being the point guard for his team and helped anchor a shut-down defense.

I am and have always been impressed when a big is able to join and instantly mesh with a perimeter star. While I don't think it is difficult to play along side a player of LeBron James BBIQ, the seamless transition Davis made from being "The Man" to being Robin left me aghast. Davis's transition to a different role while keeping, if not increasing his impact is Kevin Garnett like, a trait of a portable skill-set and BBIQ unique to few players ever.


Focusing back onto Davis, I was blown away by his defense on the perimeter. There is a ceiling for a defensive player when they are an elite, backline anchor. The ceiling is high and rarely is that ceiling pushed where the player isn't having an "all-time great" impact. Think of the likes of Mutombo, Howard and Wallace and the defense they brought. Ultimately, against a certain offensive concept or strategy, their defensive impact will be "somewhat lowered". Anthony Davis does not have that weakness. Anthony Davis is never going to be the rim protector of Mutombo, but Anthony Davis is still all-time in the sense he is a world-class Rim Protector. What separates Anthony Davis and makes him the sought after Unicorn is his ability to also defend perimeter players at an elite level. We saw what Davis was able to do a team like Miami, having an abundance of space to work with on offense, mitigating the effectiveness an elite rim protector. Davis was able to switch up his defensive assignment and strategy to defend the ball on the perimeter rather than wait back near the rim.

Davis was able to show defensive versatility this season in a way which we have never truly seen in NBA History.

Davis was great offensively, versatile and portable rivaling the best of all-time in this sense.

3. Nikola Jokic

I love me some Big Honey.

For one, Jokic didn't miss a game all season and this is rare for a player of his size and caliber. His shooting splits are ridiculous, he has no weaknesses offensively aside from his 3-ball in the regular season while he turns into a 40% 3 PT shooter in the post-season. Defensively Joker's hands and BBIQ keep him treading water but he needs more help next to him to truly maximize his talents.

Jokic is arguably the greatest passing big man of all-time and he allows for an interesting and unique team building puzzle where you don't need a Chris Paul at Point Guard and would actually prefer the more common, "score first" Point Guards of the modern era. The places on the court where Jokic operates puts the defense in a bind and only the greatest of defenses or defenders (Lakers team Defense and Rudy Gobert) were able to "slow down" Joker.

I like Jokic over Giannis, Kawhi, Harden, Doncic and Butler for one main reason.

Best offensive player of the bunch. Doncic and Harden are close but Jokic doesn't dominate the ball as much as the others, his playoff scoring was up there with the best this season and the mismatches he causes makes him another "Unicorn" player.

I fully expect Doncic to overtake Jokic as an offensive weapon this next season, but right now I give Joker the slight edge.

4. Luka Doncic

I spent a lot of the evenings over the past few weeks watching games of the candidates from this season and a handful of players from the Top-100 Project. Luka, over all other players, stood out to me the most. His control, feel for the game and pace he plays at is at another level from everyone else.

It may be too soon for Luka to be this high but I can't watch him control a game and not think he isn't better than Giannis, Butler, or Harden. His offensive game is far advanced in comparison to Giannis' and even Butler while he doesn't have the issues off the court or in a team setting Harden has, in my eyes of course. Harden is penalized for his inability to co-exist with Paul in previous seasons, his demand for Westbrook and his fascination of playing a certain way which isn't, in my view, the best way to play. If you ever thought LeBron just stood around off-ball, watch Harden.

5. Jimmy Butler

His run speaks for itself and his ability to become a Do-it-all player in the finals for a couple of games was something nobody else in contention has. If Jimmy had a more formidable team in comparison to the Lakers, his performances in the Finals could have separated and decided the series. In the end, the Heat and Jimmy fell close but the former Bull has always had my respect and a place in my top 5 if he earned it.


Offensive Player Of The Year:

1. LeBron James

He can do everything offensively and once he figures a team out in a series he doesn't make mistakes.

2. Nikola Jokic

One of the most unique offensive talents we have ever seen in the NBA.

3. Luka Doncic

His offensive game is more resilient than Harden's.


Defensive Player Of The Year:

1. Anthony Davis - I covered it earlier but his versatility sets him apart from just about everyone in NBA history.

2. Giannis Antetokounmpo - The amount of ground he can cover is insane and he makes tremendous reads. I would like to see him played at Center more often and his man on man defense isn't as good as Davis'.

3. Rudy Gobert - I still have respect for this mold of player but his impact just isn't there in the post-season in comparison to Davis and Jokic. Gobert is more mobile than many of his size and is difficult to attack off dribble on the perimeter.


Coach Of The Year:

1. Erik Spoelstra - Utilizing Duncan Robinson like he did is ballsy and 100% the correct call. He balanced putting his younger players through growing pains and winning and brought everyone together after a mid-season trade. Just an A+ coaching job for the Hall of Famer.

2. Rick Carlisle - He coached the greatest offense ever and it didn't even drop off when his 21-year old star anchor was on the bench of missing games. (Yes, double compliment about utilizing a player of Doncic's age and also the all-time great offense)

3. Mike Malone - I love what Malone did with Jokic and Murray in the post-season. His usage of Grant was crucial and he, like Spoelstra, developed Porter Jr throughout the season and put him in a position to succeed in the post-season.

This season had a lot of great coaches: Nurse, Vogel, Donovan and Snyder all get high praise from me.


Executive Of The Year:

1. Sam Presti - He fleeced the Rockets and got a kings random for Paul George.

2. Pat Riley - Just a tremendous job of keeping Miami competitive over all these years and keeping them a marquee free agent destination in 2021. Great in the now and great in the future.

3. James Jones - Just a great job juggling assets around to build around Booker. Rubio, great signing. Trading for Baynes, great trade. Signing a young, promising wing in Oubre to a team friendly deal, saavy play.

[O_6]

Player of the Year
1. LeBron
2. Davis
3. Giannis
4. Kawhi
5. Harden
HM: Jokic, Luka, Butler

At the end of the season, LeBron once again looked like the most impactful player in the sport. I had him as #2 to Giannis in the regular season, but he clearly surpassed Giannis after the playoffs. I think he's a pretty easy choice for #1 this year.

Davis vs. Giannis is something that I really struggled with. Giannis was significantly better in the regular season but Davis' game hit a completely different level in the playoffs and his two-way dominance helped lead his team to a Championship. What I mainly struggle with is how I should value Davis' mid-range jumper. It has been such an inefficient shot for him for years now, and early in the regular season it was just borderline infuriating to see how many fadeaway jumpers he'd take. I read that one thing he worked on during the return to the bubble was to eliminate his tendency to fade on his jumpers. I don't know if that's the reason for his jumper improving, but something clearly clicked and it elevated Davis' offensive game to a special level. I don't know if his improved mid-range shooting was a mirage or not, which is why I'm still not sure who I'd rather have for next year between Davis and Giannis. But Davis' playoff outside shooting is enough for me to give him the nod over Giannis, as it made him a more difficult matchup because he can score from everywhere and can impact games off the ball significantly more than Giannis can. I had Giannis as a clear #3, he struggled against Miami but let's not ignore that he took a pretty good but far from great Bucks roster to incredible heights in the regular season. He deserved both the MVP and DPOY imo. I want to see him with a better PG than Bledsoe before really questioning if he can be the #1 option on a title team.

It's very difficult for me to leave Jokic out of the top 5. But I have Kawhi and Harden ahead of him. I know Jokic outplayed Kawhi in the Nuggets' playoff series which is hard to overlook, but a lot of that was simply due to the flaws in the Clippers' roster construction. As great as Jokic is, there are still some times where he is a little too passive on offense and his defense is still something that can be exposed. He struggled on defense in the Jazz series and they almost got eliminated in round 1 because of this flaw. I thought Kawhi returned to a very high level on defense this year, although he's not the same guy he used to be as he lacks that quickness. Kawhi's hands are still ridiculous and he makes all opposing ball-handlers uncomfortable because of it. I think Jokic is a better on offense than Kawhi due to the edge as a passer, but Kawhi is still a more impactful player when you include defense. Harden is not very good on defense, but he is no longer a complete negative on that end and I'd say he's a less exploitable defender than Jokic. Harden played better vs. the Lakers than Jokic did imo, he bounced back strongly after the OKC series. The Rockets' chances were just crushed by Westbrook playing at less than 100% in the Bubble. The Rockets were a real threat pre-COVID when Wesbtrook was rolling, it's a shame for them that the break took away that version of Westbrook.

Luka is a beast, I expect him to be in the Top 3 mix next year. Butler was awesome and proved once and for all how good of a player he truly is. He absolutely balled out in the playoffs, but I simply don't think he's as good of a player as Harden or Kawhi so it's hard for me to convince myself he belongs in the Top 5. Whenever he's on the court vs. those two guys, very rarely does he look like he's even on the same tier as them let along better than them. His playoff run was fantastic and those 2 Finals games were incredible, but I only have him as #8 for the year.


OPOY
1. LeBron
2. Harden
3. Luka
HM: Jokic

LeBron's RS performance (+1.2 TS% -- 11th ranked Offense) left a lot to be desired. He was still absolutely elite individually and the way he became more focused on passing was really fun to watch. But it wasn't until the playoff run where his efficiency skyrocketed (+8.2 TS%) and he led he Lakers' offense to a dominant playoff ORtg (115.9), that it became clear he was still the best offensive player in the league. He obviously saves his A+ game for the playoffs. Harden vs. Luka is a very tough one. I feel as if Luke is going to be a superior Offensive player in the future to Harden because his size allows him to be an elite finisher (72.6 FG% at the Rim) whereas Harden is merely good (64.2 FG% at the Rim). The way Luka was moving around Kawhi in the Clippers' series was impressive, he's just a big dude. But I still view his shooting as a question mark that will ultimately decide how great he ends up being. Harden continues to disappoint as a 3pt shooter in the playoffs, but he's still a far superior shooter to Luka at this point in their careers and it's enough to give him the edge for 2020.

Jokic is so hard to keep out of the Top 3. Luka (#2), Harden (#4), and LeBron (#6) are all among the league leaders in Time of Possession. Jokic was 59th in TOP despite leading the league in touches! There is nobody else like him in the game and he continues to prove that he has an extremely resilient offense in the playoffs. But he just isn't as aggressive as the Top 3, and he just disappears for extended stretches. It just feels like he'll often score 7 points on 2-5 shooting for a half, he needs to be more aggressive with his scoring at times. He just missed the Top 3, just an awesome player.


DPOY
1. Davis
2. Giannis
3. Gobert

Much like the POY vote, Giannis was better in the regular season and Davis was better in the playoffs. I think both players just have a level of versatility that makes them harder to exploit than Gobert. They can guard everyone on the court. Gobert remains the best rim protector in the sport, but the Jazz defense did seem to fall of a little bit this year.

Rookie of the Year
1. Ja Morant
2. Tyler Herro
3. Zion Williamson

Ja looked fantastic and lived up to the hype. His combination of efficient scoring and strong passing is really impressive and is going to make him a superstar in this league. Just a really exciting talent. Herro balled out in the playoffs and really looks like he even has star potential. Great rookie campaign. Zion was fantastic in terms of finishing at the rim, he is just impossible to contend with from a strength standpoint. But his defense and explosiveness were not what we saw at Duke, and combined with his lack of games played keeps him from being in the conversation with Morant.


6th Man of the Year
1. Goran Dragic
2. Dennis Schroeder
3. Christian Wood

Dragic had a great season, it's a shame that the injury happened in the Finals. It's weird to give him 6MOY since he won this award as a starter in the playoffs, but he is technically eligible and the best option imo. Schroeder was great for OKC and a big reason for their surprise success this year. Christian Wood is an underrated player, I think he deserves to get paid in the off-season. His skill-set and talent are significant and he had great season off the bench this year.

Most Improved Player
1. Bam Adebayo
2. Luka Doncic
3. Jayson Tatum

This is a tough one. Luka and Tatum both took steps towards becoming MVP level players, but we kind of expected them to based on what we had seen. Bam's improvement was not supposed to be so sudden, and we didn't realize he had this kind of ceiling. His versatility on both ends of the court is just such a positive for his team and makes him one of the easiest players to play with in the league. Any roster in the league, Bam goes there and easily finds a way to make a big impact. I'm a big fan of his game and he really became a star this year.

Coach of the Year
1. Erik Spoelstra
2. Nick Nurse
3. Billy Donovan

Spoelstra was fantastic, the Heat are such a fun team to watch and so disciplined and tough. He didn't get another ring, but he did prove that he is without a doubt a Championship coach. Nurse did such a great job of keeping that Raptors at a very high level all year despite a roster lacking elite talent. The 3rd pick was tough, but I went with Donovan over Carlisle. OKC was the surprise of the year, and Donovan being able to handle the OKC backcourt the way he did was a big reason why.

Executive of the Year
1. Sam Presti
2. Pat Riley
3. Donn Nelson

Presti being able to leverage the Kawhi situation into a massive trade haul for OKC was amazing. They remained competitive this year and are set up so damn well for the future. Riley convincing Jimmy Butler to come to Miami was such a bigtime move, that team is also filled with so many quality role players and young guys. Donn Nelson has really constructed a talented offensive team in Dallas. He deserves credit for putting together a talented roster for Luka to grow with, although Porzingis' injuries are worrisome.

[Jordan Syndrome]

I forgot some!

Rookie Of The Year:

1. Ja Morant
2. Tyler Herro
3. Zion Williamson

I really want to put a more deserving player into the third slot but I just can't. Hayes and Rui are the closest to me but Zion's impact, Tyler's electrifying moments in the post-season and Morant's leading of Memphis put the 3 of them in another tier in comparison to them.


6th Man of the Year:

1. Serge Ibaka
2. Donte DiVincenzo
3. Jordan Clarkson

Goran Dragic was not a 6th man.

I like the spacing and defense Ibaka provided, High level 3+D play supplied by Donte and Jordan's spark off the bench in the post-season.



Most Improved Player
1. Duncan Robinson

Most Improved Player is defined, to me, as the player who improved more than I expected in a non-linear way. I expect players like Doncic, Tatum, and Ingram to all improve as players. The degree they do improve is going to vary but I am aware it could be huge leaps thus the range in which I expect these players to improve is large. Duncan Robinson? No, I expected him to be J.J. Redicks partner on his podcast, not his partner in the NBA record books.

[Doctor MJ]

Don't know if my vote will be counted but still:

I'll add you to the panel, but did you read the instructions? I only asked for a PM.

Admittedly I didn't. Recent days/weeks have been busy for my forum visits have been very rushed, sorry for that. Glad my votes count. Other ballots aside from the above:

.

No worries Joey, glad you wanted to be a part of this.

One thing, could you say a bit about how you came to the votes that you did? Help us see it your way, if you would.

Cheers,
Doc

[HeartBreakKid]

Here is my ballot without any details or explanation

Player of the Year
1) Lebron James
2) Nikola Jokic
3) Luka Doncic
4) James Harden
5) Kawhi Leonard

Offensive Player of the Year
1) Lebron James
2) Nikola Jokic
3) Luka Doncic

Defensive Player of the Year
1) Rudy Gobert
2) Ben Simmons
3) Bam Abedayo

Rookie of the Year
1) Ja Morant
2) Zion Williamson
3) Tyler Herro

Most Improved player of the year
1) Bam Abedayo
2) Jayson Tatum
3) Fred VanVleet

Sixth Man of the Year
1) Goran Dragic
2) Dennis Schroeder
3) Serge Ibaka (Originally Dwight Howard but I changed my vote)

Coach of the Year
1) Rick Carlisle
2) Erik Spoelstra
3) Brad Stevens

Executive of the Year
1) Sam Pressi
2) Pat Riley
3) Rob Pelinka[/spoiler]

Spoiler:

Player of the year

Lebron James – I was one of the few guys, perhaps the only guy who gave LBJ a top 5 vote in 2019 because quite frankly….he seemed pretty damn great to me still. I got a lot of heat not because LBJ missed the playoffs but because people thought he was a bit past it? Seems like that is a bit debunked – James looks like the same player that he was 5 years ago or so, maybe a bit slower. Offensively he is just as dominant as ever before, you really couldn’t find many players who are clearly better than him at scoring in an all time sense other than Michael Jordan. Now defensively well, I suppose that might be difference between him and the 2019 version, he was pretty juicy on this end, though I disagree very strongly about him being a defensive player of the year candidate. He is maybe as good as a 2nd all defense player, but even then I’m not positive.

Nikola Jokic – All time great offensive player right here – he is the perfect example of a guy who can score at will but doesn’t need too in order to produce great offense. I voted him #2 last year also, I don’t think there Is currently an impactful enough defender in the league right now who can really make up for the absolute premium you get for Jokic on offense. I said this in the 2019 version of my vote for Jokic “If the Nuggets had real star power I think Nikola would absolutely kill it.” – we saw a glimpse of this with Murray raising his play and now the Nuggets are one of the best teams in the league. Imagine if he had another star, or even replaced Murray with someone more stable? (Murray was on fire and played against teams with subpar perimeter defense, when Mike Conley returned in round 1 he was a bit more controlled and he struggled against the Clippers who have legitimate perimeter defense). I am a big proponent of taking people’s teammates into context.

Luka Doncic – I’m going all in with Luka. I think he’s a legitimate super star, and if his team was more healthy or he had another star (Porzingis is not really a star) he’d get past the Clippers no problem. Offensively I think he is just as good as Nikola and Harden. Actually I give him some benefit of a doubt over Harden, albeit they’re basically equal – I think his ability to get the ball moving around and more insistence on mid range shots make him a better floor general than El Chapo.

James Harden – This was his best post season run to me, he pretty much delivered on most fronts and defensively he never looked better. Actually, I considered putting Harden over Luka just because of the defensive edge, but thinking about it even if he is a better defender his defense in a vacuum might not move the needle that much. I think he is neck to neck with Luka, I just feel offenses around Harden are a bit more stagnant than with Luka, so I’d say Luka is a more dynamic offensive player because of that. Bringing it back to the teammate argument, if he kept Cp3 instead of Westbrook the series with the Lakers would have been very interesting.


Kawhi Leonard – The collateral damage from the Clippers failing in the post season has done some serious damage to Kawhi Leoanrd. At this point I actually feel like people were waiting for something “bad” to happen to Kawhi just so they can tear him down a bit. Here is the thing, I feel if you thought 2019 Kawhi was the POY last year – which many did, there isn’t really a reason to be so low on him this year. He did the same exact thing he did in Toronto…only difference is he didn’t get as far – so unless winning is a heavy part of your criteria I don’t quite understand why people are low on Leonard? He did not coast more for the Clippers than Toronto (he played only 3 less games despite the season closing prematurely due to COVID-19). His numbers are the same as his Toronto day, more or less. His numbers in the post season held up as they usually do (28/9/5, 59 TS% 2.5 Turnovers). In fact, he was the only player on the Clippers who really did play “well” and most people seemed to acknowledge that until game 7 of the Semi-finals. Yeah….I guess you’re as good as your last game, he’s not really the first player to get torn down for having a bad game 7, but it’s kind of unjustified considering he did his job. The rest of the Clippers really stunk – but if they played not like a varsity team and they get past the Nuggets, no one really doubts Kawhi’s impact that much, conversely though people would use it as ammo for why Jokic “isn’t good because he’s big”. This was also the first season in a long time where I thought he played good defense consistently, not really DPOY but he seemed like an all-defense level wing. His lack of playmaking I think is still a major weakness in contrast to Luka/Harden so I put them over Leonard.

Giannis and Davis are my two big snubs. They’re both guys who dominated different parts of the season (RS hero and PS hero respectively), both guys were the DPOY candidates…but I don’t think either guy is actually that elite on defense (especially Giannis he gets a ton of credit just cause of how elite the Bucks are on defense, but his roleplayers are more defensive oriented ones and that gets overlooked). I don’t think Davis “has to be the #2 guy” to do what he did, I think if you pair James with any top ten guy he’s getting a title unless he is going up against a big 3. I also think Giannis offense is not nearly as bad as people make it seem, big reason why some peoples eye test is not that good is because they only remember the very bad or the very good and not the “mundane”. A mundane possession for Giannis is still a bucket, and one where an entire defense has to collapse on him to stop him – that’s gravity and that is powerful in a championship roster, which the Bucks are not. Davis offense and defense is very good, and I suppose because he is quite traditional it seems like he doesn’t have many weaknesses, I don’t really buy that he can be the #1 guy on a championship team. Sure being a great Robin is awesome, but if you’re the #2 best player or even the 5th in the league why would you be judged by that standard? It seems like a weird thing like people are assuming it is perfectly normal to have a Lebron James quality teammate. Personally, I think if you want to go deeper for a championship and you’re building a championship roster – Luka, Leonard and Jokic will take you further, even if they are not the defender AD is – they just seem more resilient. (given the proper context)


Offensive Player of the Year

Lebron James – I touched on his elite scoring already in my POY vote, but it’s worth noting this is really the first season where Lebron James truly played as a point guard. He brought the ball up full court more often, played further from the rim than he has in a long time, played more pick and roll, was the first line in transition defense (and the Lakers ended up being a very good transition defensive team) – and as a result he lead the league in assist and was the only guy to go over 10 APG. His floor generalship is elite, and his playmaking is even better. Doesn’t make sense to me to trust anyone else over James if you want your best bet at scoring.

Nikola Jokic – Ill go the different direction with Jokic, his passing is a given – I really love Jokic’s ability to score. He is really good at moving without the ball, he gets into post position and when he does he is not timid, he will bully his way in if he has to. There are not many 7 footers who have a post game like Jokic, and along with his triple threat ability he is one of the best scorers in the league in addition to being the best playmaking center of all time. If he can get his offensive rebounds back up he can take another leap.

Luka Doncic – The Mavericks had the best offense despite not having any real star talent – their next highest profile player is Porzingis, who is more impactful from the defensive end than anything. If Porzingis doesn’t miss so much time it’s entirely possible that they beat the Clippers, and I thought the Clippers were the best defensive team in the West.

Defensive player of the year

Rudy Gobert - Gobert is a case of a player who has been there and done that, so there is fatigue against him – plus as a really big player a lot of fans are not convinced that they can guard the perimeter anymore. I really don’t see the basis for this, this again goes to why some peoples eye test are not that good, because they only remember the times when mega elite players like Curry score on him in isolation and they never forget that. It’s not that efficient offense to have your guy go one on one against Gobert with everyone standing while they settle for a step back 3. Gobert is statistically as dominant as ever and the Jazz were not pushovers this season. Murray went off on the Jazz because they just had bad perimeter defense – once Mike Conley came in and made it more balanced then the Nuggets really felt Gobert’s impact. Not to mention Gobert did a decent job against Nikola, who is the #2 offensive player in my eyes.

Ben Simmons – While I just basically kissed Gobert’s ass by saying mega fast perimeter defense isn’t everything, it’s still really damn important. I don’t think there is a better PnR “big” player who is as good as Ben Simmons. This guy is really a freak among freaks, and the Sixers are just such a punching bag that many people won’t take Simmons seriously (doesn’t help that he missed the post season either). He can guard guards….I’m not talking like on a few dribbles, he can take them full time and hold more than his own. Compared to Giannis/Davis who often are said they can guard 1-5, Simmons actually really can guard 1-5 full time (depends how good the 5 is or how tiny the 1 is, but he can guard most of them). He should be recognized as a future all time great defensive player, but it doesn’t seem like that’s caught up (defensive reputation is always a couple of years behind from my observation).

Bam Abdeayo – This is piggy backing off of Ben, he is another guy who is freakishly fast and he can play “bigger” than Ben with real paint protection and tough rebounds. He’s not as disciplined as Davis, especially the first half of the season, but one has to take into account because it’s his third season he was improving as the season was actually going – and by the time the Bubble came he basically was a 4th year player and it looked like he took a quantam leap. The Heat’s defense punched much higher than it’s 14th DEF rating because of this mid-season leap, and they are more or less the second best team in the league.

Rookie of the year

Ja Morant – I barely watched any bad teams this season, by far the lowest amount in years. I’m usually a big prospect watcher but I just couldn’t find the time. I’m going with the grain and giving it to Ja Morant. He seems like he does everything right, and on top of being a freak athlete his game is quite mature.

Zion Williamson – For every other award 24 games is way too small of a sample size for me to take seriously. But rookie of the year I take games and minutes out the window because so much of it is so circumstantial (because of minutes which is more directly related to how awful your teammates are more than anything) – so a player who misses time from an injury kind of catches a lucky break here. Zion already looks like a #2 scorer on a contending team which easily puts him above the rest of the rookie class, and he’s not bad at the other aspects of ball for a rookie.

Tyler Herro – The crazy length of this season did wonders for a super young rookie. The 5 month break during the RS basically turned Tyler and the rest of the rookies into second year players. He was truly excellent in the bubble during the RS and the PS. A poor finals appearance took down his averages…but think about that – he’s a rookie and we’re talking about the NBA finals in the same sentence. He was a major component to why the Heat got as far as they did, and he really killed it against the Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals. He is the Heat’s 4th or 5th best player and the Heat are the second best (third at worst) team in the league. That’s incredible.

Most Improved Player of the Year

Bam Abedayo – So as a rule of thumb I generally do not consider second year players applicable for “Most Improved Player” otherwise I would probably vote Luka (and most years it’s probably going to go to a 2nd year dude). With my criteria in mind, first place was razor close between Abedayo and Tatum. Both guys really solidified themselves in new tiers (star tiers no less). Tatum took what feels like a bigger if not more important leap on offense – but Bam’s defense really went to new heights. Tatum has always been a good defender since his rookie year, but Bam went from a solid defender with a lot of potential to living up to that potential. His ability to cut down on personal fouls alone allowed him to play 10 more minutes, and he was a major reason why the Heat were so hard to deal with in the East.

Jayson Tatum – If there was a comeback award Jayson might get this. He had a sophomore slump and was looking like a top 30 guy – but this year he has broken into the top ten, or he’s about as good as a top ten guy. He is now a legitimate volume scorer on great efficiency, and his passing ability clearly improved to the next level in the bubble.

Fred VanVleet – Fred basically did what he did last year for the Raptors but scaled it up with Kawhi gone. He is now a good back up scorer, dropping 17.6 points for the season while being an awesome floor general and good passer. He doesn’t hog the ball, he can shoot, he can score, he plays good defense despite his size and he plays better in the post season than RS. He really solidified himself as a true starter.

Brandon Ingram did improve, but it seemed much more like gradual improvement other than a quantum leap into a new tier – I don’t think he did anything this year no one expected him to do. My guess for his MIP love is that a lot of people thought he was much worse than he was in Los Angeles and because he was less micro analyzed in New Orleans people have a better impression of what he is good at as opposed to just looking at his flaws.

6th Man of the Year

Goran Dragic – He was the third best player on a finals team. A good offensive force and a solid defender – he was a major consistent in the Heat, and it’s a shame he went down in the finals. I don’t really get the argument on how he’s not a 6th man? He barely started, and the argument that he’s as good as a starter therefore he shouldn’t be a 6th man seeks weak – every 6th man is as good as a starter that’s what makes them a 6th man and not just a bench guy. Anyway, he started in the playoffs because Nunn was bad in the bubble due to injury and other concerns. Ideally the Heat would have had him come off the bench, at least for a quarter of the post season.

Dennis Schroeder – He played solid ball during the RS, but in the post season he really stepped up his game. He had games where he was better than SGA and CP3, which is no small task for someone off the bench. I don’t think he’s really better than Goran at any major aspect of basketball, maybe not even defense (perhaps a bit better but not much).

Serge Ibaka - In the original version of this post I had Dwight Howard, but I think it's hard to say Dwight was actually better than Ibaka. I knew I wanted someone from Toronto on this list but couldn't think of any names until I saw Jordan Syndrome vote for Serge Ibaka. Serge is a still a good defender and he can make shots easy. He actually kills a lot of teams when he plays even in the post season, he's a real energizer in his own way. Dwight Howard is way more situational and doesn't play a lot in general, not to mention is not anywhere near as good on offense as Ibaka is.


Not a great year for 6th men really, especially since Lou and Trez are kind of empty stat guys. They’re just so bad defensively, it’s hard to take a lot of what they offer seriously, and their offense (especially Trez) is easy to shut down.

Coach of the Year

Rick Carlisle – I have been saying for years that Rick is the BOAT, but without hardware or deep playoff runs (or in the case of the past few years no playoffs at all) it’s been a lonely island. I really think he knows the exact value of just about every player he has on his own team. The Mavericks had the highest ORTG of all time, and while I was giving a lot of that credit to Luka….when he is sitting the Mavericks still have a great offense. This is a team that is playing rejects like Tim Hardaway Jr – perhaps those guys were underrated in hindsight, but it seems like Rick knew what to do with what were basically thrown away parts. The Mavericks gave the Clippers a serious bloody nose despite not having Porzingis, and they could have gone on a real run.

Erik Spoelstra – This was a two man race between him and Rick, though I suspect Erik will win COY pretty easily while Rick will be fortunate to get 4th place. Erik is really good at tinkering with his line ups, establishing the ball gets moved around and giving players ample responsibility and holding them accountable to it. He was really good at nearly having every player play to their upmost limits, only rarely giving players more than what they can handle (usually because he had too because in the post season beggers can’t be choosers unless you have a stacked team). He’s really improved tenfold, and is one his way to becoming an all time great.

Brad Stevens – I’m going with old faithful over the new model in Nick Nurse. For one, I don’t really get what Nick Nurse did that was that special? I think the take that the Raptors won over 50 games over Kawhi Leonard is the laziest take all season – it really takes like 2 seconds to see why that anyone who predicted the Raptors to go under 50 this game should never get into sports betting. The Raptors have won over 50 games since 2016, and haven’t won less than 48 games since 2013 (to put things in perspective, Lebron James was on the Heat back then and only had one ring, and Roy Hibbert was a DPOY candidate). What is different from the 2020 Raptors and the 2018 Raptors? They dropped DeMar who sucks and that alone would make a team better, and he was replaced with all-star Pascal Siakam, a more seasoned Fred VlanVleet, more seasoned O.G. Anunoby and they had Marc Gasol (okay, he wasn’t very good this season, but coming into the season it was reasonable to expect he’d help out). Where is the overachieving here? Who the heck is winning less than 50 in the East with that roster plus Kyle Lowry and Serge Ibaka? As for the Celtics vs Raptors match up – without Gordon Hayward I think they are very comparable talent wise, with the Raptors having better depth and Celtics having better firepower – and while the Celtics overall are still more talented….didn’t that reflect in the results? The Celtics did win, and while it was a 7 game series the margin of victory was clearly in the Celtics favor. I think Brad Stevens did exactly what he should have done, if not more versus the disaster that happened last year for the Celtics. I also think the way he found to fit in Gordon Hayward into the roster to be brilliant, and it’s a shame that Hayward went down with injury because he was pretty much the Celtic’s second best player.

Executive of the Year

Sam Pressi – He really blew up his team the right way. He traded Westbrook and George, both guys who kind of had relative down years for an absolute army of first rounders – many of which are very weakly protected. He also got a very tangible prospect in SGA who I believe is the second best prospect in his draft after Luka and is already a good player. On top of that he got vets in CP3 and Galinari. CP3 ended up playing better than Westbrook or George and now Pressi can trade him for future goodies. He did all of this while still having a team good enough to compete in the playoffs and in the smallest market in the league.

Pat Riley – He put together a heck of a team. He locked up Duncan Robinson to a proper contract, drafted Nunn and Herro who are future studs, and of course captured Jimmy Butler off of free agency when the Heat weren’t even a contender to do so. Not only does he have the second best team in the league who still have a lot of their coreplayers as young and improving rapidly, his team is in a great cap space situation. In 2021 they’ll be posed for two max agent signings, in addition to already having a contending team. He also ditched some low grade prospects in Waiters and Winslow for more win now guys in Crowder and Iguodalla who helped a lot with this finals run. Maybe if Goran was healthy the Heat get the upset of the decade.

Rob Pelinka – They got Anthony Davis and a ring, what else needs to be said? He only doesn’t get #1 because a lot of the legwork is kind of done just by virtue of the Lakers being the Lakers and LeBron already being there. This is a really close year though and I could see him being above Pat or Sam because he does have a ring and a reasonably young superstar at the end of the day. He does get points for signing Dwight Howard though, that was a good pick up.






EDIT - I decided to replace my third place vote for Dwight Howard with Serge Ibaka for 6th man of the year.

Original vote for Dwight

[spoiler]Dwight Howard – It was between him and Davis Bertans, but as I said earlier I didn’t watch many lotto teams so I’ll go with what I know. Dwight Howard is not a real traditional 6th man, he’s used more like a depth guy. But he is a very important tool for the Lakers to use – in certain situations he is very impactful. So even though Dwight might get DNP’d or play less than 20 minutes a game, when he is used he delivers in a big way. His ability to bully some smaller teams helped the Lakers, and when they faced bigger threats like Jokic he did a tremendous job defending him. He knows his role well on offense this season, and defense he has always been a stud.

I edited my 6th man of the year 3rd place vote. Replaced Dwight Howard with Serge Ibaka.

[Doctor MJ]

Alright, so we have tentative results:

POY: LeBron James
OPOY: LeBron James
DPOY: Anthony Davis
ROY: Ja Morant (unanimous)
MIP: Luka Doncic
6MOY: Goran Dragic
COY: Erik Spoelstra
EOY: (tie) Sam Presti & Pat Riley

Spreadsheet with tallies is here.

There are two races that realistically could have the wrong winner based on counting mistakes.

In MIP, Doncic has a one point lead over Bam.
In EOY, Presti & Riley are tied.

If people would like to double check me particularly on those awards it would be appreciated.

One thing I'll note: HeartBreakKid, you posted twice and before I realized this it actually changed the winners on both awards.

So that's one mistake I caught, there might be more.

Last note: I will not be accepting new votes or subsequent changed votes. I'm 100% fine with Presti & Riley sharing the award if in a 3-deep ballot they end up tied. But of course, if I counted wrong, I would like to know that.

[ShotCreator]

I just want to express my disgust(not really but just this weird emotion I get over this stuff from time to time), over Harden being put below anybody not named LeBron or Giannis.

This was a very clear, easy year to rank several players.

Harden the easiest. FLAT OUT the best offensive player on the planet. Teams sold out to stop him for months and he is still a ~30/7 on ~63 TS% guy no matter the defense bare minimum. Defense isn’t elite? Anywhere from 35 - 45 points on godly efficiency with enough playmaking to carry any lineup.

Flat out a positive defender on top of this.

Putting Jokic, Butler, or Luka over him is, literally, unjustifiable on any level.

Even Kawhi is clearly worse due to the offense gap and the motor that falls off so the defense isn’t there either. Kawhi is definitely not better in the RS than Harden, and when he’s carrying a team, not just being a hired gun for a stacked squad, he is much worse in the PS than Harden. Scheming, ceiling, you name it.

I don’t know if this board believes it doesn’t bend over to winning bias and crazy amounts of recency bias but it really, really does.

[KTM_2813]

I just want to express my disgust(not really but just this weird emotion I get over this stuff from time to time), over Harden being put below anybody not named LeBron or Giannis.

This was a very cleatr, easy year to rank several players.

Harden the easiest. FLAT OUT the best offensive player on the planet. Teams sold out to stop him for months and he is still a ~30/7 on ~63 TS% guy no matter the defense bare minimum. Defense isn’t elite? Anywhere from 35 - 45 points on godly efficiency with enough playmaking to carry any lineup.

Flat out a positive defender on top of this.

Putting Jokic, Butler, or Luka over him is, literally, unjustifiable on any level.

Even Kawhi is clearly worse due to the offense gap and the motor that falls off so the defense isn’t there either. Kawhi is definitely not better in the RS than Harden, and when he’s carrying a team, not just being a hired gun for a stacked squad, he is much worse in the PS than Harden. Scheming, ceiling, you name it.

I don’t know if this board believes it doesn’t bend over to winning bias and crazy amounts of recency bias but it really, really does.

Now that you mention it, I'm having a hard time conjuring an argument for Kawhi over Harden. Even if you feel that Kawhi was better on a per-possession basis during the regular season, Harden played eleven more games, so... And in the playoffs, Harden was actually pretty good, whereas Kawhi was also good but maybe a bit disappointing. Ultimately, Harden's metrics look significantly better than Kawhi's in the regular season and about the same in the playoffs, and their teams did about as well as each other. I think I'm with you on this one. It's at the point where we all take Harden for granted, tbh.

[Doctor MJ]

I just want to express my disgust(not really but just this weird emotion I get over this stuff from time to time), over Harden being put below anybody not named LeBron or Giannis.

This was a very clear, easy year to rank several players.

Harden the easiest. FLAT OUT the best offensive player on the planet. Teams sold out to stop him for months and he is still a ~30/7 on ~63 TS% guy no matter the defense bare minimum. Defense isn’t elite? Anywhere from 35 - 45 points on godly efficiency with enough playmaking to carry any lineup.

Flat out a positive defender on top of this.

Putting Jokic, Butler, or Luka over him is, literally, unjustifiable on any level.

Even Kawhi is clearly worse due to the offense gap and the motor that falls off so the defense isn’t there either. Kawhi is definitely not better in the RS than Harden, and when he’s carrying a team, not just being a hired gun for a stacked squad, he is much worse in the PS than Harden. Scheming, ceiling, you name it.

I don’t know if this board believes it doesn’t bend over to winning bias and crazy amounts of recency bias but it really, really does.

The Rockets were a worse team this year because, in part, they made a bad trade because Harden forced them to.

They made the trade with the Thunder. The Rockets were far better than the Thunder the previous year, and the Thunder were literally trying to tank having traded away their best player to another team. Despite this, the gap between the Rockets and Thunder disappeared this year.

Because of this, the Rockets are now in a no man's land where they are forced to continue "competing" without having any way to actually be a serious contender. Because of this, the coach and GM have fled the team.

And you feel disgust at us because we didn't champion the hell out of the player who killed the franchise's relevance because he decided he didn't want to play with a great point guard and instead wanted to play a guard who can't shoot?

Listen, I'm not saying everyone here is thinking in these terms, and I'm fine with you personally championing Harden if you're the sort of person who likes to "focus on the basketball" and ignore the massive effect a basketball player can choose to have off the court that destroys the relevance of the basketball team.

But this was a devastatingly disappointing turn of events for the Rockets after they nearly won a title not too long ago, and the fact that you're focused on celebrating the player who caused the team disappointment really says a lot about your granular focus. And with someone with granular focus talks about feeling "disgusted", it's strange.

You want to be super-rational? Stick to being rational.
You want to talk in terms of emotions? Actually analyze the emotions of the situation in question.

This is not a good time to be a Houston Rocket fan, and no one should forget it when evaluating Harden.

And as always I emphasize: I'm a Harden fan. I've been cheering for him for a long time because he's a local-boy-made-good-for-me. I consider him the most clever scorer in the history of the game and a clear-cut all-time great. And while I sympathize with him finding CP3 annoying - pretty sure everyone does - if you can't do better and you decide to force a change anyway, well, then to me the fallout is at least partially on you.

[Doctor MJ]

Now that you mention it, I'm having a hard time conjuring an argument for Kawhi over Harden. Even if you feel that Kawhi was better on a per-possession basis during the regular season, Harden played eleven more games, so... And in the playoffs, Harden was actually pretty good, whereas Kawhi was also good but maybe a bit disappointing. Ultimately, Harden's metrics look significantly better than Kawhi's in the regular season and about the same in the playoffs, and their teams did about as well as each other. I think I'm with you on this one. It's at the point where we all take Harden for granted, tbh.

So I didn't have either in my Top 5, but I did have Kawhi ahead of Harden all year so I can speak for myself:

Yes, Kawhi played less, but his team was rolling. For perspective here, Kawhi had a raw +/- of +478 while Harden was at a +284, despite Kawhi playing less.

When you're on an elite team that doesn't need more wins, you can rest without tangible consequence, so why would I put Harden above Kawhi if I think Kawhi was the better overall player?

And if you want to say "Harden had worse teammates!", he sure did. He had the team he forced his team to build in the name of making things better, and in doing so he made his team worse right now and in the future and the "smart money" that was working for the franchise before got the hell of the sinking ship.

To be clear: I'm pretty critical of Kawhi for similar reasons given what he forced the Clippers to give up...but the Clippers were in far better shape both last year and going forward, and as I said, I still think Kawhi's actually the better player.

[limbo]

Harden is probably the best player in the league when it comes to carrying the single biggest offensive load and generating the most points individually from the start of the season consistently into the Playoffs...

This makes him the frontrunner for OPOY, but since he's not a huge difference maker defensively, you could slot LeBron and Giannis ahead of him (though Giannis offensive resilience in PO is again something to ponder and perhaps a reason to put him below Harden). Kawhi could be another player to consider following this criterion as well, but the jury is still out on how much juice Kawhi can bring on offense compared to Harden. This year was arguably the first time Kawhi's team relied heavily on his offensive creation and his game/team kind of broke down in the middle of a Playoff run... Couple that with his general need to take 20 games off during the RS, and it makes it hard for me to put Kawhi ahead of Harden, at least for this specific year.

My biggest problem with Harden is probably his complete lack of interest to make himself a useful offensive player off the ball... When he has the ball, you can say he has the most value in the league on offense, and that's always way he has some of the most insane stats ever, but outside of that, how much value does he bring? This especially bothers me when your team is making trades to bring in another player that will help you manage the offense and give the team a fallback option, but you don't want to play in a way that would maximize that player's ability to make an impact on offense... even just for a few stretches in a game.

What's the point of having Westbrook and propping him up if you're not going to make yourself useful when Westbrook has the ball, which everyone in the World knows is how Westbrook needs to play to maximize his value to a team. Harden is the more flexible player, he can give up some ball dominance and still retain value because of his shooting ability. But as far as i recall, Harden wasn't doing much running and cutting when Westbrook had the ball. It was mostly 'your turn/my turn' 1 on 1 basketball and a lot of freestyling, and you're simply not going to win that way. Even with Paul, it was basically more of a 'two players' taking turns in leading the attack moreso than them working in unison with the offense.

And i understand teams were doubling Harden as soon as he crossed the half-line and were forcing Westbrook to take open shots and giving him space to go 1on1. But come on, man... Give **** Westbrook the ball and let him bring it up the court while you go under the basket and get a couple of screens to get open or something... There's ways to work around this, but Harden doesn't even try... He's like ''well, i got the double, passed it out, my job is done here''...

It's maybe a bit Dantley-esque or young MJ like. They're gonna pile up up the stats because their team gives them all the resources and they are great players at maximizing their own scoring and creation, but everything else around them is completely dead, so when you're throwing hard defensive pressure at Harden, the rest of the team is like a headless chicken not knowing what to do and how to play in that scenario as your best player just stands at the top of the 3pt line watching.

[KTM_2813]

Now that you mention it, I'm having a hard time conjuring an argument for Kawhi over Harden. Even if you feel that Kawhi was better on a per-possession basis during the regular season, Harden played eleven more games, so... And in the playoffs, Harden was actually pretty good, whereas Kawhi was also good but maybe a bit disappointing. Ultimately, Harden's metrics look significantly better than Kawhi's in the regular season and about the same in the playoffs, and their teams did about as well as each other. I think I'm with you on this one. It's at the point where we all take Harden for granted, tbh.

So I didn't have either in my Top 5, but I did have Kawhi ahead of Harden all year so I can speak for myself:

Yes, Kawhi played less, but his team was rolling. For perspective here, Kawhi had a raw +/- of +478 while Harden was at a +284, despite Kawhi playing less.

When you're on an elite team that doesn't need more wins, you can rest without tangible consequence, so why would I put Harden above Kawhi if I think Kawhi was the better overall player?

And if you want to say "Harden had worse teammates!", he sure did. He had the team he forced his team to build in the name of making things better, and in doing so he made his team worse right now and in the future and the "smart money" that was working for the franchise before got the hell of the sinking ship.

To be clear: I'm pretty critical of Kawhi for similar reasons given what he forced the Clippers to give up...but the Clippers were in far better shape both last year and going forward, and as I said, I still think Kawhi's actually the better player.

Thanks for the explanation. I think that what you're saying makes a lot of sense. Off the top of my head, I have just a couple of follow-ups:

1) You may know better than me, but I think that Kawhi's injury situation is an important factor when considering all of the rest he took. If he wasn't especially injured, and was resting because "Why not?", then I think it's fair to ignore the eleven game difference between him and Harden. However, if he was injured, even a bit, and he was resting out of necessity, then I think it's fair to give Harden some bonus points there. I think that durability matters. Based on Kawhi's injury history with the Spurs and Raptors, and considering he looked a bit slow in the playoffs, I personally lean towards the latter conclusion (that Harden had a durability edge in 2020).

2) My understanding is that raw plus-minus is very noisy. Certainly not irrelevant, but it's worth exploring other impact metrics, and for the most part, Harden has the edge there. BPM, PIPM, RAPTOR, RPM, etc. I'm not saying that we should just look at the numbers on BBall-Index and blindly make a conclusion based off those (even though that's kind of what I did, tee hee), but I also feel as though Kawhi has benefitted a lot lately from people assuming a bunch of stuff about him that never really panned out in 2020, so there's a fine line we all have to balance there.

3) If we're going to mention how Harden potentially sabotaged the Rockets by forcing the Westbrook trade (maybe not what you were going for, but I personally think that was a bad move on his part), then I think we also have to acknowledge the complete **** show that was the Clippers this year, and the role Kawhi played there. I think there's actually a decent argument that Kawhi deserves more demerits, but it's all probably a wash in 2020, IMO.

I think that I ultimately agree with you that Kawhi is who I would take in a vacuum, but I would choose Harden over him for 2020 alone, respectfully.

[Doctor MJ]

Now that you mention it, I'm having a hard time conjuring an argument for Kawhi over Harden. Even if you feel that Kawhi was better on a per-possession basis during the regular season, Harden played eleven more games, so... And in the playoffs, Harden was actually pretty good, whereas Kawhi was also good but maybe a bit disappointing. Ultimately, Harden's metrics look significantly better than Kawhi's in the regular season and about the same in the playoffs, and their teams did about as well as each other. I think I'm with you on this one. It's at the point where we all take Harden for granted, tbh.

So I didn't have either in my Top 5, but I did have Kawhi ahead of Harden all year so I can speak for myself:

Yes, Kawhi played less, but his team was rolling. For perspective here, Kawhi had a raw +/- of +478 while Harden was at a +284, despite Kawhi playing less.

When you're on an elite team that doesn't need more wins, you can rest without tangible consequence, so why would I put Harden above Kawhi if I think Kawhi was the better overall player?

And if you want to say "Harden had worse teammates!", he sure did. He had the team he forced his team to build in the name of making things better, and in doing so he made his team worse right now and in the future and the "smart money" that was working for the franchise before got the hell of the sinking ship.

To be clear: I'm pretty critical of Kawhi for similar reasons given what he forced the Clippers to give up...but the Clippers were in far better shape both last year and going forward, and as I said, I still think Kawhi's actually the better player.

Thanks for the explanation. I think that what you're saying makes a lot of sense. Off the top of my head, I have just a couple of follow-ups:

1) You may know better than me, but I think that Kawhi's injury situation is an important factor when considering all of the rest he took. If he wasn't especially injured, and was resting because "Why not?", then I think it's fair to ignore the eleven game difference between him and Harden. However, if he was injured, even a bit, and he was resting out of necessity, then I think it's fair to give Harden some bonus points there. I think that durability matters. Based on Kawhi's injury history with the Spurs and Raptors, and considering he looked a bit slow in the playoffs, I personally lean towards the latter conclusion (that Harden had a durability edge in 2020).

2) My understanding is that raw plus-minus is very noisy. Certainly not irrelevant, but it's worth exploring other impact metrics, and for the most part, Harden has the edge there. BPM, PIPM, RAPTOR, RPM, etc. I'm not saying that we should just look at the numbers on BBall-Index and blindly make a conclusion based off those (even though that's kind of what I did, tee hee), but I also feel as though Kawhi has benefitted a lot lately from people assuming a bunch of stuff about him that never really panned out in 2020, so there's a fine line we all have to balance there.

3) If we're going to mention how Harden potentially sabotaged the Rockets by forcing the Westbrook trade (maybe not what you were going for, but I personally think that was a bad move on his part), then I think we also have to acknowledge the complete **** show that was the Clippers this year, and the role Kawhi played there. I think there's actually a decent argument that Kawhi deserves more demerits, but it's all probably a wash in 2020, IMO.

I think that I ultimately agree with you that Kawhi is who I would take in a vacuum, but I would choose Harden over him for 2020 alone, respectfully.

1) Totally respect your feelings with regard to injury. I'm more in a "Did it hurt the team in a historically consequential way?" mode.

2) I'm not going to say that any form of +/- isn't noisy, but that means a particular thing that isn't particularly relevant to why I referenced it. What I was trying to emphasize is that Kawhi's teams were really dominant when he played in a way Harden's teams weren't. That doesn't mean that Kawhi was better than Harden, but it's a big part of the reason why the Clippers were able to coast through the season.

3) As I've said, neither made my Top 5 and I am critical of both.

[RSCD3_]

Alright, so we have tentative results:

POY: LeBron James
OPOY: LeBron James
DPOY: Anthony Davis
ROY: Ja Morant (unanimous)
MIP: Luka Doncic
6MOY: Goran Dragic
COY: Erik Spoelstra
EOY: (tie) Sam Presti & Pat Riley

Spreadsheet with tallies is here.

There are two races that realistically could have the wrong winner based on counting mistakes.

In MIP, Doncic has a one point lead over Bam.
In EOY, Presti & Riley are tied.

If people would like to double check me particularly on those awards it would be appreciated.

One thing I'll note: HeartBreakKid, you posted twice and before I realized this it actually changed the winners on both awards.

So that's one mistake I caught, there might be more.

Last note: I will not be accepting new votes or subsequent changed votes. I'm 100% fine with Presti & Riley sharing the award if in a 3-deep ballot they end up tied. But of course, if I counted wrong, I would like to know that.

Where is the site that compiled the totals for all the numbers, iirc is was done by a guy who had a harden profile pic and maybe had second in his name

Not sure if he’s still updating but I’m curious what the bonuses from this year do to change positioning in the all time realgm winshares list

[Doctor MJ]

Alright, so we have tentative results:

POY: LeBron James
OPOY: LeBron James
DPOY: Anthony Davis
ROY: Ja Morant (unanimous)
MIP: Luka Doncic
6MOY: Goran Dragic
COY: Erik Spoelstra
EOY: (tie) Sam Presti & Pat Riley

Spreadsheet with tallies is here.

There are two races that realistically could have the wrong winner based on counting mistakes.

In MIP, Doncic has a one point lead over Bam.
In EOY, Presti & Riley are tied.

If people would like to double check me particularly on those awards it would be appreciated.

One thing I'll note: HeartBreakKid, you posted twice and before I realized this it actually changed the winners on both awards.

So that's one mistake I caught, there might be more.

Last note: I will not be accepting new votes or subsequent changed votes. I'm 100% fine with Presti & Riley sharing the award if in a 3-deep ballot they end up tied. But of course, if I counted wrong, I would like to know that.

Where is the site that compiled the totals for all the numbers, iirc is was done by a guy who had a harden profile pic and maybe had second in his name

Not sure if he’s still updating but I’m curious what the bonuses from this year do to change positioning in the all time realgm winshares list

I believe my updated spreadsheet on RealGM POY Voting through 2020 is what you're asking for.

Let me know if you meant something else. As you'll see on the "share leaders" tab, Russell still has a slight lead on LeBron for the top spot.