The Best Shaq Defender. Who is it?

[DWhiteMamba]

Sorry, still trying to get my head around your claim Kobe should have won the 2003 MVP.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Jahidi White

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

[TroubleS0me]

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[LAL1947]

Shaq making David Robinson look like a rag doll. This video needs an R rating, the way he assaulted that man.

The irony is that Robinson had a bigger role guarding Shaq when Shaq was younger and fitter because Robinson was the bigger and better defender. Robinson took the majority of the punishment and saved Timmy from getting it instead... because Shaq would've abused Timmy a whole lot more than he did Robinson. It was only later on, when Shaq became much bulkier and unfit/unhealthy so couldn't move as well, when Duncan was able to start playing defense on him.

Watch on YouTube

[DWhiteMamba]

I've already said I think old man D.Rob's D on Shaq is overstated. That said, this is some weak evidence. One dunk? Plus D.Rob's effectiveness, to the degree anyone was really effective stopping Shaq, came in his physical prime. This is past prime D.Rob. It wouldn't matter if you showed 1000 dunks.

[LAL1947]

I've already said I think old man D.Rob's D on Shaq is overstated. That said, this is some weak evidence. One dunk? Plus D.Rob's effectiveness, to the degree anyone was really effective stopping Shaq, came in his physical prime. This is past prime D.Rob. It wouldn't matter if you showed 1000 dunks.

That's a good choice of wording there, i.e., "to the degree anyone was really effective stopping Shaq". There was nobody who could really stop him when he was young. I feel Hakeem and Rodman attempted it best, yet I agree with you, David Robinson gave it as good a shot as anyone else. So I'm not trying to disrespect Robinson, he did the best he could.

Anyway, the point is there is no way Tim Duncan could have guarded young Shaq full-time and not been fully abused. David Robinson saved his butt by being the one to take the majority of that punishment for the Spurs. It was only later on when Shaq became bulkier and unfit so couldn't move as well that Duncan was able to take on the responsibility. Which is why it irks me to see some people try to call Duncan the "best Shaq defender". It's like they forgot all about the prior years, when Timmy wanted no part of that job.

Here's more highlights from that game, if you're interested.
Shaq: 34p/15r/4b
Robinson: 27p/14r/6a
Duncan: 19p/12r/4a

Watch on YouTube

[DWhiteMamba]

I've already said I think old man D.Rob's D on Shaq is overstated. That said, this is some weak evidence. One dunk? Plus D.Rob's effectiveness, to the degree anyone was really effective stopping Shaq, came in his physical prime. This is past prime D.Rob. It wouldn't matter if you showed 1000 dunks.

That's a good choice of wording there, i.e., "to the degree anyone was really effective stopping Shaq". There was nobody who could really stop him when he was young, but the two who attempted it best were Hakeem and Rodman... and I agree, David Robinson gave it as good a shot as anyone else. So I'm not trying to disrespect Robinson, he did what he could.

Anyway, the point is there is no way Tim Duncan could have guarded young Shaq and not been abused. David Robinson saved his butt by being the one to take the majority of that punishment for the Spurs. It was only later on when Shaq became bulkier and unfit so couldn't move as well that Duncan was able to take on the responsibility. Which is why it irks me to see some people try to call Duncan the "best Shaq defender".

Except we literally saw Duncan guard Prime Shaq, the exact Shaq you just showed us dunk on D.Rob, and he didn't just "not get abused" but he slowed him down in a way few others ever did. I will post the series below, but first let's call you out on one of your other more disingenuous comments. Shaq did indeed bulk up, and it's bulkier Shaq we see dunk on D.Rob. Shaq was HARDER to stop when bulked up, that's WHY he bulked up. It gave him so much more power that even strong guys like old man D.Rob couldn't stop him. Duncan guarding him bulked up is MORE impressive, not less. Young Shaq of course would be more suited for today's game, due to having more endurance and speed, but he had less power. That was very evident in watching him. Your claims also lack any logic at all. How would Shaq being bigger and stronger make it easier for Duncan to guard him in the post? Utter tripe.

Here's the stats from the 2002 playoff series, when Duncan and Shaq almost exclusively guarded each other:

Duncan: 29ppg, 17.2 rpg, 4.6 apg, 3.2 bpg on 517 TS%.
Shaq: 21.4ppg, 12.2rpg, 3.2apg, 3bpg on 487 TS%.

Duncan completely outplayed Shaq. It also stands in contrast to Shaq's performances that year in the 1st, 3rd and 4th round of the playoffs, where he looked as dominant as ever. The very next round Shaq put up 30-14 on 563 TS%, and in the finals it was 36-12 on 636 TS%. As the footage below shows, it was clearly the presence of Duncan that was the difference. Note below that Duncan was guarding him on deep post ups, wrestling in the paint with Shaq.

Watch on YouTube

[LAL1947]

I've already said I think old man D.Rob's D on Shaq is overstated. That said, this is some weak evidence. One dunk? Plus D.Rob's effectiveness, to the degree anyone was really effective stopping Shaq, came in his physical prime. This is past prime D.Rob. It wouldn't matter if you showed 1000 dunks.

That's a good choice of wording there, i.e., "to the degree anyone was really effective stopping Shaq". There was nobody who could really stop him when he was young, but the two who attempted it best were Hakeem and Rodman... and I agree, David Robinson gave it as good a shot as anyone else. So I'm not trying to disrespect Robinson, he did what he could.

Anyway, the point is there is no way Tim Duncan could have guarded young Shaq and not been abused. David Robinson saved his butt by being the one to take the majority of that punishment for the Spurs. It was only later on when Shaq became bulkier and unfit so couldn't move as well that Duncan was able to take on the responsibility. Which is why it irks me to see some people try to call Duncan the "best Shaq defender".

Except we literally saw Duncan guard Prime Shaq, the exact Shaq you just showed us dunk on D.Rob, and he didn't just "not get abused" but he slowed him down in a way few others ever did. I will post the series below, but first let's call you out on one of your other more disingenuous comments. Shaq did indeed bulk up, and it's bulkier Shaq we see dunk on D.Rob. Shaq was HARDER to stop when bulked up, that's WHY he bulked up. It gave him so much more power that even strong guys like old man D.Rob couldn't stop him. Duncan guarding him bulked up is MORE impressive, not less. Young Shaq of course would be more suited for today's game, due to having more endurance and speed, but he had less power. That was very evident in watching him. Your claims also lack any logic at all. How would Shaq being bigger and stronger make it easier for Duncan to guard him in the post? Utter tripe.

Here's the stats from the 2002 playoff series, when Duncan and Shaq almost exclusively guarded each other:

Duncan: 29ppg, 17.2 rpg, 4.6 apg, 3.2 bpg on 517 TS%.
Shaq: 21.4ppg, 12.2rpg, 3.2apg, 3bpg on 487 TS%.

Duncan completely outplayed Shaq. It also stands in contrast to Shaq's performances that year in the 1st, 3rd and 4th round of the playoffs, where he looked as dominant as ever. The very next round Shaq put up 30-14 on 563 TS%, and in the finals it was 36-12 on 636 TS%. As the footage below shows, it was clearly the presence of Duncan that was the difference. Note below that Duncan was guarding him on deep post ups, wrestling in the paint with Shaq.

Watch on YouTube

Ahh, perfect... this is exactly what I mean when referring to the euphoria of the Spurs fan that clouds their minds. A euphoria that came from finally beating a Lakers team that had been stomping on the Spurs and the league for the 3 years prior... so when they finally got one over the Lakers, they were unable to see why it happened and what changed to allow it to happen. It's not just with Spurs fans though, I see it with a lot of fans of Western conference teams who the Lakers would beat up on during that stretch between 1999-2002. It's why you would call 2002-03 version of Shaq a "prime Shaq"... and say stuff like "Duncan completely outplayed prime Shaq in 2002-03"... while ignoring that Timmy called himself a Power Forward instead of a Center until then, and left the role of defending Shaq full-time to David Robinson while he saved himself to do more on offense.

The highlight clip I first posted was from 1997-98. That Shaq was a different beast to the one we saw in 2002-03. You cannot compare the two because of one thing, the difference in mobility. 2002-03 is the year when Shaq missed the first 12 games because he was recovering from toe surgery. He had degenerative arthritis in his toe... and should have got it done during the off-season but decided to act a fool for whatever reason and get it done after the season started instead. When he re-joined the team, it was quite obvious that he was also even lazier than before and not working as hard or moving as well. There is a difference between:

1) being bulked up + being as mobile as prime Shaq used to be.
2) being even more bulked up + not being as mobile, compared to what he was even just a year prior.

As mentioned already, the highlight clip I first posted was from 1997-98. Even if you fast forward some years later to 2000-01, 2001-02 to compare the size AND movement of Shaq in these 2 years to what he was in 2002-03, there is a very noticeable difference. There is also a noticeable progressive lowering in his mobility during each of these years. For me personally, the years of "prime Shaq" were from the day he entered the league (because he was ready from day 1) and lasted until 2001-02. He was not the same Shaq after, to me at least, although he was still a monster because of his size.

[DWhiteMamba]

While it's flattering to hear you tell us Shaq was at his absolute peak the year the Spurs swept him and sent him home in 99, your arguments and reasoning are all over the place and clearly not based on a critical assessment of the facts but a desire to back up your own contradictory narrative. You tell us Shaq wasn't himself in 03 (BS, but I'll ignore it for the moment), but the series I cited above was the year before that. So what was the excuse there? I guess you didn't even know what series Duncan guarded Shaq in. Typical.

The claim Shaq was worse bulked up is also tripe, and I'm not going to bother replying to it further. He was worse at some things, but scoring in the post was not one of them.

[70sFan]

That's a good choice of wording there, i.e., "to the degree anyone was really effective stopping Shaq". There was nobody who could really stop him when he was young, but the two who attempted it best were Hakeem and Rodman... and I agree, David Robinson gave it as good a shot as anyone else. So I'm not trying to disrespect Robinson, he did what he could.

Anyway, the point is there is no way Tim Duncan could have guarded young Shaq and not been abused. David Robinson saved his butt by being the one to take the majority of that punishment for the Spurs. It was only later on when Shaq became bulkier and unfit so couldn't move as well that Duncan was able to take on the responsibility. Which is why it irks me to see some people try to call Duncan the "best Shaq defender".

Except we literally saw Duncan guard Prime Shaq, the exact Shaq you just showed us dunk on D.Rob, and he didn't just "not get abused" but he slowed him down in a way few others ever did. I will post the series below, but first let's call you out on one of your other more disingenuous comments. Shaq did indeed bulk up, and it's bulkier Shaq we see dunk on D.Rob. Shaq was HARDER to stop when bulked up, that's WHY he bulked up. It gave him so much more power that even strong guys like old man D.Rob couldn't stop him. Duncan guarding him bulked up is MORE impressive, not less. Young Shaq of course would be more suited for today's game, due to having more endurance and speed, but he had less power. That was very evident in watching him. Your claims also lack any logic at all. How would Shaq being bigger and stronger make it easier for Duncan to guard him in the post? Utter tripe.

Here's the stats from the 2002 playoff series, when Duncan and Shaq almost exclusively guarded each other:

Duncan: 29ppg, 17.2 rpg, 4.6 apg, 3.2 bpg on 517 TS%.
Shaq: 21.4ppg, 12.2rpg, 3.2apg, 3bpg on 487 TS%.

Duncan completely outplayed Shaq. It also stands in contrast to Shaq's performances that year in the 1st, 3rd and 4th round of the playoffs, where he looked as dominant as ever. The very next round Shaq put up 30-14 on 563 TS%, and in the finals it was 36-12 on 636 TS%. As the footage below shows, it was clearly the presence of Duncan that was the difference. Note below that Duncan was guarding him on deep post ups, wrestling in the paint with Shaq.

Watch on YouTube

Ahh, perfect... this is exactly what I mean when referring to the euphoria of the Spurs fan that clouds their minds. A euphoria that came from finally beating a Lakers team that had been stomping on the Spurs and the league for the 3 years prior... so when they finally got one over the Lakers, they were unable to see why it happened and what changed to allow it to happen. It's not just with Spurs fans though, I see it with a lot of fans of Western conference teams who the Lakers would beat up on during that stretch between 1999-2002. It's why you would call 2002-03 version of Shaq a "prime Shaq"... and say stuff like "Duncan completely outplayed prime Shaq in 2002-03"... while ignoring that Timmy called himself a Power Forward instead of a Center until then, and left the role of defending Shaq full-time to David Robinson while he saved himself to do more on offense.

The highlight clip I first posted was from 1997-98. That Shaq was a different beast to the one we saw in 2002-03. You cannot compare the two because of one thing, the difference in mobility. 2002-03 is the year when Shaq missed the first 12 games because he was recovering from toe surgery. He had degenerative arthritis in his toe... and should have got it done during the off-season but decided to act a fool for whatever reason and get it done after the season started instead. When he re-joined the team, it was quite obvious that he was also even lazier than before and not working as hard or moving as well. There is a difference between:

1) being bulked up + being as mobile as prime Shaq used to be.
2) being even more bulked up + not being as mobile, compared to what he was even just a year prior.

As mentioned already, the highlight clip I first posted was from 1997-98. Even if you fast forward some years later to 2000-01, 2001-02 to compare the size AND movement of Shaq in these 2 years to what he was in 2002-03, there is a very noticeable difference. There is also a noticeable progressive lowering in his mobility during each of these years. For me personally, the years of "prime Shaq" were from the day he entered the league (because he was ready from day 1) and lasted until 2001-02. He was not the same Shaq after, to me at least, although he was still a monster because of his size.

DWhiteMamba posted a video from 2002 series, not 2003. Do you really believe that Shaq was past his prime in 2002?

Also, Duncan did guard Shaq in 1999 playoffs. Not to the same degree as in 2002, but he did guard him and along witb Robinson they limited him to the worst series of his prime.

Would you say that Shaq was past his prime in 1999 as well? If so, then I can't take your opinion seriously.