Rank every season of LeBron's prime '09-'20

TheGOATRises007 · Post #21 » by **TheGOATRises007** » Sun May 22, 2022 11:28 pm

70sFan wrote:Man, 2014 is so underrated here...

Why?

His offense is comparable to 2020 IMO and his defense in 2020 was better than 2014.

capfan33 · Post #22 » by **capfan33** » Mon May 23, 2022 1:12 am

70sFan wrote:Man, 2014 is so underrated here...

I didn't think too hard about it honestly but if you buy the idea that the offensive environment was significantly easier in 2017/2018 than 2014 and as such think 2014 is peak Lebron offensively, then I would put it above 2018 and 2017 probably.

falcolombardi · Post #23 » by **falcolombardi** » Mon May 23, 2022 1:22 am

2014 is in an awkward stop cause it was the first year lebron stopped being the best regular season player but his playoffs run doesnt feel as inpressive as the cavs ones

i may need to look back into that year deeper

ardee · Post #24 » by **ardee** » Mon May 23, 2022 1:32 am

70sFan wrote:Man, 2014 is so underrated here...

His lack of aggressiveness ESPECIALLY in the Finals really hurts him here.

If you compare 2014 and 2015, his team was badly outmatched in both Finals series. Yet in 2014 he only took 18.2 FGA/g, and in 2015 he took 32.7 FGA/g.

Now I still think he was better in 2014 than 2015, but do you think the 2016-18 versions of him are that passive in a series like that? You know they wouldn't be, because he played in lopsided series then too and he tried much harder.

70sFan · Post #25 » by **70sFan** » Mon May 23, 2022 6:52 am

Eddy_JukeZ wrote:
70sFan wrote:Man, 2014 is so underrated here...

Why?

His offense is comparable to 2020 IMO and his defense in 2020 was better than 2014.

His offense was inarguably better than 2020 and his defense tanked because he was forced to do so much things on this old, washed up Heat team.

2020 James would have a lot more problems against Pacers and Heat defense than 2014 did. He was far more athletic and he shot better. he was also more active without the ball.

70sFan · Post #26 » by **70sFan** » Mon May 23, 2022 7:00 am

ardee wrote:
70sFan wrote:Man, 2014 is so underrated here...

His lack of aggressiveness ESPECIALLY in the Finals really hurts him here.

If you compare 2014 and 2015, his team was badly outmatched in both Finals series. Yet in 2014 he only took 18.2 FGA/g, and in 2015 he took 32.7 FGA/g.

Now I still think he was better in 2014 than 2015, but do you think the 2016-18 versions of him are that passive in a series like that? You know they wouldn't be, because he played in lopsided series then too and he tried much harder.

The difference is that 2015 Cavs had the personel to defend Warriors offense, while Heat were horrible defensively due to being so old and washed up.

James being more agressive wouldn't change a thing in 2014 finals. Besides, you don't take the difference in pace into account:

2014 finals: 18.4 FGA per game, but 26.4 per100
2017 finals: 23.4 FGA per game, but 26.4 per100

Teams averaged almost 13 more possessions per game in 2017 finals. Another thing is that James played more minutes in 2017 finals, but again - with the way Spurs played in the finals I don't see that changing anything.

So yeah, I don't see 2016-18 James doing much better than 2014 James in the finals.

tone wone · Post #27 » by **tone wone** » Mon May 23, 2022 10:27 pm

ardee wrote:
70sFan wrote:Man, 2014 is so underrated here...

His lack of aggressiveness ESPECIALLY in the Finals really hurts him here.

If you compare 2014 and 2015, his team was badly outmatched in both Finals series. Yet in 2014 he only took 18.2 FGA/g, and in 2015 he took 32.7 FGA/g.

Now I still think he was better in 2014 than 2015, but do you think the 2016-18 versions of him are that passive in a series like that? You know they wouldn't be, because he played in lopsided series then too and he tried much harder.

His 2016 can be lauded for a lot of reasons...aggressive scoring is NOT one of them. Just 18 30pt games all year (28 in 2014). Zero 40pt games which I believe is the only season in his career without one. In the playoffs he had exactly 1 30pt game heading into the finals.

By his standards 2016 is a very weak scoring season. Probably the weakest of his prime. His scoring was more explosive in 2011 and we all know how much that season is crapped on. Seriously, his lack of explosive scoring was a big shadow over Clevelands title chances. Van Gundy and Jackson were practically begging him to shoot the first 4 games of the Finals.

letskissbro · Post #28 » by **letskissbro** » Tue May 24, 2022 12:09 am

09 10 12 13
14 17 18
16 20
11
15

imo

ardee · Post #29 » by **ardee** » Tue May 24, 2022 5:14 am

tone wone wrote:
ardee wrote:
70sFan wrote:Man, 2014 is so underrated here...

His lack of aggressiveness ESPECIALLY in the Finals really hurts him here.

If you compare 2014 and 2015, his team was badly outmatched in both Finals series. Yet in 2014 he only took 18.2 FGA/g, and in 2015 he took 32.7 FGA/g.

Now I still think he was better in 2014 than 2015, but do you think the 2016-18 versions of him are that passive in a series like that? You know they wouldn't be, because he played in lopsided series then too and he tried much harder.

His 2016 can be lauded for a lot of reasons...aggressive scoring is NOT one of them. Just 18 30pt games all year (28 in 2014). Zero 40pt games which I believe is the only season in his career without one. In the playoffs he had exactly 1 30pt game heading into the finals.

By his standards 2016 is a very weak scoring season. Probably the weakest of his prime. His scoring was more explosive in 2011 and we all know how much that season is crapped on. Seriously, his lack of explosive scoring was a big shadow over Clevelands title chances. Van Gundy and Jackson were practically begging him to shoot the first 4 games of the Finals.

He was aggressive when he needed to be is the point.

2014 James' team was falling apart around him and he didn't shoot more when he should have.

ardee · Post #30 » by **ardee** » Tue May 24, 2022 5:15 am

70sFan wrote:
ardee wrote:
70sFan wrote:Man, 2014 is so underrated here...

His lack of aggressiveness ESPECIALLY in the Finals really hurts him here.

If you compare 2014 and 2015, his team was badly outmatched in both Finals series. Yet in 2014 he only took 18.2 FGA/g, and in 2015 he took 32.7 FGA/g.

Now I still think he was better in 2014 than 2015, but do you think the 2016-18 versions of him are that passive in a series like that? You know they wouldn't be, because he played in lopsided series then too and he tried much harder.

The difference is that 2015 Cavs had the personel to defend Warriors offense, while Heat were horrible defensively due to being so old and washed up.

James being more agressive wouldn't change a thing in 2014 finals. Besides, you don't take the difference in pace into account:

2014 finals: 18.4 FGA per game, but 26.4 per100
2017 finals: 23.4 FGA per game, but 26.4 per100

Teams averaged almost 13 more possessions per game in 2017 finals. Another thing is that James played more minutes in 2017 finals, but again - with the way Spurs played in the finals I don't see that changing anything.

So yeah, I don't see 2016-18 James doing much better than 2014 James in the finals.

Don't really buy that. That's like saying "lol we have no hope of winning, might as well give up." At least the loss would have been less embarrassing if he had asserted himself more offensively.

ardee · Post #31 » by **ardee** » Tue May 24, 2022 5:16 am

letskissbro wrote:09 10 12 13
14 17 18
16 20
11
15

imo

2016 that low?

70sFan · Post #32 » by **70sFan** » Tue May 24, 2022 7:09 am

ardee wrote:
70sFan wrote:
ardee wrote:
His lack of aggressiveness ESPECIALLY in the Finals really hurts him here.

If you compare 2014 and 2015, his team was badly outmatched in both Finals series. Yet in 2014 he only took 18.2 FGA/g, and in 2015 he took 32.7 FGA/g.

Now I still think he was better in 2014 than 2015, but do you think the 2016-18 versions of him are that passive in a series like that? You know they wouldn't be, because he played in lopsided series then too and he tried much harder.

The difference is that 2015 Cavs had the personel to defend Warriors offense, while Heat were horrible defensively due to being so old and washed up.

James being more agressive wouldn't change a thing in 2014 finals. Besides, you don't take the difference in pace into account:

2014 finals: 18.4 FGA per game, but 26.4 per100
2017 finals: 23.4 FGA per game, but 26.4 per100

Teams averaged almost 13 more possessions per game in 2017 finals. Another thing is that James played more minutes in 2017 finals, but again - with the way Spurs played in the finals I don't see that changing anything.

So yeah, I don't see 2016-18 James doing much better than 2014 James in the finals.

Don't really buy that. That's like saying "lol we have no hope of winning, might as well give up." At least the loss would have been less embarrassing if he had asserted himself more offensively.

Don't buy that James forcing more would change the outcome at all. Spurs shot like the best team of all time in that series and they coompletely dominated old Heat team on both ends of the floor.

As I said, you don't take into account how slow the pace was in these games.

ceoofkobefans · Post #33 » by **ceoofkobefans** » Tue May 24, 2022 12:23 pm

2013
2012
2009
2010
2014
2016
2011
2017
2018
2020
2008
2021
2007
2006
2019
2005
2004

MisterHibachi · Post #34 » by **MisterHibachi** » Tue May 24, 2022 2:16 pm

17, 13, 12, 09, 10
18, 20, 14
16
15, 11
19, 21, 22

No-more-rings · Post #35 » by **No-more-rings** » Tue May 24, 2022 2:37 pm

MisterHibachi wrote:17, 13, 12, 09, 10
18, 20, 14
16
15, 11
19, 21, 22

Are each of those lines in order or just tiers?

MisterHibachi · Post #36 » by **MisterHibachi** » Tue May 24, 2022 2:51 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
MisterHibachi wrote:17, 13, 12, 09, 10
18, 20, 14
16
15, 11
19, 21, 22

Are each of those lines in order or just tiers?

Interchangeable within tiers. I think they're all close enough that I would've really argue with any order within the tiers.

Top10alltime · Post #37 » by **Top10alltime** » Tue Sep 9, 2025 1:20 am

Let's see here....

1. 2010 Lebron
2. 2012 Lebron
3. 2013 Lebron
4. 2009 Lebron

5. 2017 Lebron
6. 2016 Lebron
7. 2018 Lebron
8. 2020 Lebron

9. 2014 Lebron

10. 2011 Lebron

11. 2015 Lebron
12. 2019 Lebron

The amazing thing about Lebron is that his 8th best season is arguably the GOAT guard season, even 2011 is a good year. I think 2015 Lebron is pretty mid though, might not be higher than 15 CP3.

70sFan · Post #38 » by **70sFan** » Tue Sep 9, 2025 5:40 am

Top10alltime wrote:Let's see here....

1. 2010 Lebron
2. 2012 Lebron
3. 2013 Lebron
4. 2009 Lebron

5. 2017 Lebron
6. 2016 Lebron
7. 2018 Lebron
8. 2020 Lebron

9. 2014 Lebron

10. 2011 Lebron

11. 2015 Lebron
12. 2019 Lebron

The amazing thing about Lebron is that his 8th best season is arguably the GOAT guard season, even 2011 is a good year. I think 2015 Lebron is pretty mid though, might not be higher than 15 CP3.

I think you vastly underrate 2014.

I also think 2007 and 2008 should be higher than 2019 due to missed games.

Top10alltime · Post #39 » by **Top10alltime** » Tue Sep 9, 2025 12:15 pm

70sFan wrote:
Top10alltime wrote:Let's see here....

1. 2010 Lebron
2. 2012 Lebron
3. 2013 Lebron
4. 2009 Lebron

5. 2017 Lebron
6. 2016 Lebron
7. 2018 Lebron
8. 2020 Lebron

9. 2014 Lebron

10. 2011 Lebron

11. 2015 Lebron
12. 2019 Lebron

The amazing thing about Lebron is that his 8th best season is arguably the GOAT guard season, even 2011 is a good year. I think 2015 Lebron is pretty mid though, might not be higher than 15 CP3.

I think you vastly underrate 2014.

I also think 2007 and 2008 should be higher than 2019 due to missed games.

Please do tell me what is that good about 2014! I am also just extremely high on the other seasons (I posted a thread about 2020 Bron vs 1991 Jordan, because I think the two are debatable: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2471888).

Missed games don't always matter. But there is a case for 07 and 08. The reason I don't include this is because OP asked to rank 09-20, not any other.

trelos6 · Post #40 » by **trelos6** » Thu Sep 11, 2025 10:14 am

Using RAPM data, I decided to see if there was logical consistency.

For example, using a 4 year sample, 2009-2012 is 10.5 vs 2010-2013 is 8.9. Thus you can conclude, holding 2010-2012 constant that 2009 > 2013.

Doing that for 2,3,4, and 5 year samples, putting more weight on the larger samples, we end up with a list order that is mostly internally consistent.

There were 2 cases of inconsistencies.

In one sample, 2011 > 2013, and in another 2013>2011. And there was another between the seasons 2018 and 2015.

Let's promote these seasons, for arguments sake.

Now the only obvious outlier is the 2012 season, which we can all agree was superior to 2011. Though even in single year xRAPM, 2011 > 2012.

2012 was the lockout shortened year, and Lebron played a quarter of his minutes with Bosh, Wade, Chalmers and Anthony. They were a +11.

All other 5 man lineups are super low minutes, so they’re quite noisy, but the trend is Lebron lineups are +10 and non Lebron lineups are not.

Anyways, someone can tell me why I'm wrong. I just thought it an interesting exercise.