At their best who's a better scorer Kevin Durant or James Harden?

[rocketsfan100]

Durant gets buckets incredibly easy but I voted Harden.

The reason is, Harden at peak was a complete one man offense. He runs the point and also dominates the ball inside and out effectively. You just need a couple shooters to bail him out and a big man who can dunk alley oops and putbacks. He's the easiest guy to build around I've ever seen. You can more or less roll the ball out for peak harden and he will do his thing.

But a complete failure against playoff defense
That really shows he wouldn't be a great scorer in the tougher defensive eras.

Someone with Ben Simmons moniker shouldn’t be talking about anyone else’s offensive weaknesses with all due respect

[rocketsfan100]

Durant is the most efficient perimeter scorer if not the most efficient scorer ever. Harden was different. Harden not only scored a ton( not as efficient) but due to his elite playmaking ability generated a ton of points with assists as well. Two completely different offensive players

[dhsilv2]

People are really overrating KD here who has mostly had much better teammates that made his life infinitely easier. They're exaggerating how bad Harden's playoff drops have been. I still have KD here, but some of the hyperbole here is just going into insanity. KD would struggle a lot more if stuck in Harden's situation in Houston and Harden would have excelled much more next to a passer in Westbrook or with Curry.

Please. Which other star of Harden's caliber consistently takes a dip in production come post season? Seriously, guys like Lebron, Wade, Kobe all RISE or at worst stay pat in terms of their production in the playoffs as they're are far more resilientand versatile scorers. Meanwhile, Harden's numbers have dipped in 6 of his last 8 post seasons. His game is gimmicky and thus doesn't hold up when it really matters. A guy that relies on the refs to call fouls using his silly baiting tactics does worse in the playoffs when refs swallow their whistle, go figure.

Harden adapted his game for the system he was playing in. That system was a bad system for the playoffs. Until you fairly address that context, it's hard to even discuss his playoff failures and success.

[Eagle4]

People are really overrating KD here who has mostly had much better teammates that made his life infinitely easier. They're exaggerating how bad Harden's playoff drops have been. I still have KD here, but some of the hyperbole here is just going into insanity. KD would struggle a lot more if stuck in Harden's situation in Houston and Harden would have excelled much more next to a passer in Westbrook or with Curry.

Please. Which other star of Harden's caliber consistently takes a dip in production come post season? Seriously, guys like Lebron, Wade, Kobe all RISE or at worst stay pat in terms of their production in the playoffs as they're are far more resilientand versatile scorers. Meanwhile, Harden's numbers have dipped in 6 of his last 8 post seasons. His game is gimmicky and thus doesn't hold up when it really matters. A guy that relies on the refs to call fouls using his silly baiting tactics does worse in the playoffs when refs swallow their whistle, go figure.

Harden adapted his game for the system he was playing in. That system was a bad system for the playoffs. Until you fairly address that context, it's hard to even discuss his playoff failures and success.

Lol huh? The DA system is literally give the ball to Harden and allow him to do whatever he pleases with 3 shooters camped in the corner and Dwight/Capela as a lob threat. Yea definitely a challenging system for Harden to thrive in.

[dhsilv2]

Please. Which other star of Harden's caliber consistently takes a dip in production come post season? Seriously, guys like Lebron, Wade, Kobe all RISE or at worst stay pat in terms of their production in the playoffs as they're are far more resilientand versatile scorers. Meanwhile, Harden's numbers have dipped in 6 of his last 8 post seasons. His game is gimmicky and thus doesn't hold up when it really matters. A guy that relies on the refs to call fouls using his silly baiting tactics does worse in the playoffs when refs swallow their whistle, go figure.

Harden adapted his game for the system he was playing in. That system was a bad system for the playoffs. Until you fairly address that context, it's hard to even discuss his playoff failures and success.

Lol huh? The DA system is literally give the ball to Harden and allow him to do whatever he pleases with 3 shooters camped in the corner and Dwight/Capela as a lob threat. Yea definitely a challenging system for Harden to thrive in.

I wonder why it never leads to championships despite 3 MVP's being won with it...

[JonFromVA]

Durant is a more reliant on PG play than Harden which makes it hard to directly the compare the two, but I imagine most GM's with a competent PG would take Durant over Harden (if they primarily needed scoring).

[Fencer reregistered]

People are really overrating KD here who has mostly had much better teammates that made his life infinitely easier. They're exaggerating how bad Harden's playoff drops have been. I still have KD here, but some of the hyperbole here is just going into insanity. KD would struggle a lot more if stuck in Harden's situation in Houston and Harden would have excelled much more next to a passer in Westbrook or with Curry.

Please. Which other star of Harden's caliber consistently takes a dip in production come post season? Seriously, guys like Lebron, Wade, Kobe all RISE or at worst stay pat in terms of their production in the playoffs as they're are far more resilientand versatile scorers. Meanwhile, Harden's numbers have dipped in 6 of his last 8 post seasons. His game is gimmicky and thus doesn't hold up when it really matters. A guy that relies on the refs to call fouls using his silly baiting tactics does worse in the playoffs when refs swallow their whistle, go figure.

Harden adapted his game for the system he was playing in. That system was a bad system for the playoffs. Until you fairly address that context, it's hard to even discuss his playoff failures and success.

If you argue that Harden had a failed coach whose system screwed him over once competition got more intense in the playoffs, do you also argue that the same system inflated his regular season success?

[WillyJakkz]

Durant gets buckets incredibly easy but I voted Harden.

The reason is, Harden at peak was a complete one man offense. He runs the point and also dominates the ball inside and out effectively. You just need a couple shooters to bail him out and a big man who can dunk alley oops and putbacks. He's the easiest guy to build around I've ever seen. You can more or less roll the ball out for peak harden and he will do his thing.

But a complete failure against playoff defense
That really shows he wouldn't be a great scorer in the tougher defensive eras.

Uh you literally just described Kevin Durant and his performance vs BOS just this past season.

Those guys pushed & roughed DudeCan't up and he couldn't get his offense going.

One could say it really shows you that KD wouldn't be a great scorer in those tougher 70s 80s 90s early 00s eras.

[WillyJakkz]

I'll take the guy who actually had the media questioning if he was the best scorer of all time in comparison to MJ and Kobe.

Not to mention as the absolute Alpha with no other high volume scorer in the lineup or on the team this guy excelled more than the other guy (hint: it wasn't Durant). HOU Harden > BK KD (w/ Kyrie out of lineup).

Voted Harden.

[Lockdown504090]

It’s Kevin and harden would even agree, but what I will say that if durant has to handle James hardens volume, he would have fallen apart by now due to catastrophic injury

[dhsilv2]

Please. Which other star of Harden's caliber consistently takes a dip in production come post season? Seriously, guys like Lebron, Wade, Kobe all RISE or at worst stay pat in terms of their production in the playoffs as they're are far more resilientand versatile scorers. Meanwhile, Harden's numbers have dipped in 6 of his last 8 post seasons. His game is gimmicky and thus doesn't hold up when it really matters. A guy that relies on the refs to call fouls using his silly baiting tactics does worse in the playoffs when refs swallow their whistle, go figure.

Harden adapted his game for the system he was playing in. That system was a bad system for the playoffs. Until you fairly address that context, it's hard to even discuss his playoff failures and success.

If you argue that Harden had a failed coach whose system screwed him over once competition got more intense in the playoffs, do you also argue that the same system inflated his regular season success?

No. The system clearly generates incredible regular season success, which we can measure by the huge win totals and playoff positioning that the team reached. But building a team around so heavily around Nash and Harden while still successful in the playoffs was less so because they didn't have personnel to counter defensive adjustments.

Keep in mind I do think some of Harden's playoff failures and drop offs are on him too. But we can't get to that discussion if we ignore letting a team game plan your ONE point of attack will be a player with the ball in their hand in iso is a huge problem.

[Fencer reregistered]

Harden adapted his game for the system he was playing in. That system was a bad system for the playoffs. Until you fairly address that context, it's hard to even discuss his playoff failures and success.

If you argue that Harden had a failed coach whose system screwed him over once competition got more intense in the playoffs, do you also argue that the same system inflated his regular season success?

No. The system clearly generates incredible regular season success, which we can measure by the huge win totals and playoff positioning that the team reached. But building a team around so heavily around Nash and Harden while still successful in the playoffs was less so because they didn't have personnel to counter defensive adjustments.

Keep in mind I do think some of Harden's playoff failures and drop offs are on him too. But we can't get to that discussion if we ignore letting a team game plan your ONE point of attack will be a player with the ball in their hand in iso is a huge problem.

"Nash and Harden"?

[dhsilv2]

If you argue that Harden had a failed coach whose system screwed him over once competition got more intense in the playoffs, do you also argue that the same system inflated his regular season success?

No. The system clearly generates incredible regular season success, which we can measure by the huge win totals and playoff positioning that the team reached. But building a team around so heavily around Nash and Harden while still successful in the playoffs was less so because they didn't have personnel to counter defensive adjustments.

Keep in mind I do think some of Harden's playoff failures and drop offs are on him too. But we can't get to that discussion if we ignore letting a team game plan your ONE point of attack will be a player with the ball in their hand in iso is a huge problem.

"Nash and Harden"?

What was the question?

[Patches Perry]

I'll take Durant. This is kind of like the Kobe vs. Harden scoring debate, where Harden can compare to Kobe statistically but in the playoffs where teams strategize to take things away from you, it's the scorers with counters and other ways to score that excel.

Harden is like the guy in Street Fighter who can use a spam move to beat almost anyone in a regular setting, but in a highly competitive setting where all the players are elite, you need some variation to your game because they'll take your primary options away from you. Durant is not perfect in this regard either as he can sometimes be taken out of his game through physicality, but he has a more varied and adaptable scoring ability than Harden imo.

[Fencer reregistered]

No. The system clearly generates incredible regular season success, which we can measure by the huge win totals and playoff positioning that the team reached. But building a team around so heavily around Nash and Harden while still successful in the playoffs was less so because they didn't have personnel to counter defensive adjustments.

Keep in mind I do think some of Harden's playoff failures and drop offs are on him too. But we can't get to that discussion if we ignore letting a team game plan your ONE point of attack will be a player with the ball in their hand in iso is a huge problem.

"Nash and Harden"?

What was the question?

When they played together.

But upon rereading, I see you're talking about different times with different teams (but the same coach). Sorry.

[cam24thomas]

In most of his best seasons, Harden was not a reliable playoff performer, which means he's many, many, many notches below Durant - one of the all-time best playoff performers

Harden averaged 28.4 ppg with Houston in the playoffs. Harden did not average 36 like he did in the regular season but that doesn't mean he was "not a reliable playoff performer."
KD was a bit better but the idea that Harden can't score in the playoffs is pure fanfiction.

Uh you literally just described Kevin Durant and his performance vs BOS just this past season.

Those guys pushed & roughed DudeCan't up and he couldn't get his offense going.

One could say it really shows you that KD wouldn't be a great scorer in those tougher 70s 80s 90s early 00s eras.

Durant = .476fg shooter in the playoffs.
Harden = .426fg shooter in the playoffs.
They are opposites.
Durant would be great in any era.
Harden clearly not, and he didn't even have to face hand-checking in the playoffs.... and imagine if Harden had to play against Jordan-Pippen-Harper

[AEnigma]

The system clearly generates incredible regular season success, which we can measure by the huge win totals and playoff positioning that the team reached. But building a team around so heavily around Nash and Harden while still successful in the playoffs was less so because they didn't have personnel to counter defensive adjustments.

How do you feel Nash failed to counter defensive adjustments? Those Suns teams had zero problems with offence in the postseason. The problem is that defensively they were either relying on Amar’e Stoudemire or on a Tim Thomas / Boris Diaw rotation.

[capfan33]

In most of his best seasons, Harden was not a reliable playoff performer, which means he's many, many, many notches below Durant - one of the all-time best playoff performers

This is sarcasm right.

[cam24thomas]

In most of his best seasons, Harden was not a reliable playoff performer, which means he's many, many, many notches below Durant - one of the all-time best playoff performers

This is sarcasm right.

Durant = .476fg shooter in the playoffs.
Harden = .426fg shooter in the playoffs.
They are opposites.

[Cavsfansince84]

Worth noting I think that KD topped out at 121 ts+ and 395 ts add while Harden did at 116 and 259(back in 2015). So even in the rs KD is doing it with a lot less misses. Harden gets semi bailed out by going to the line so much and being a great ft shooter.