Where does Kobe's 10yr prime (01-10) rate in historical rankings?

[Primedeion]

It's easily in the top ten.

I don't think it's"easily" when you can "easily" think about ~12 players with arguably better 10 years prime than him.

Top 3ish player in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010

I don't think most people have Kobe in top 3 in 2002. 2003, 2006 and 2007 are also arguable.

Amazing impact metrics, incredible postseason runs, all-time great peak, ridiculous statistical seasons, etc

What do you mean by "impact metrics"? The ones derived from plus minus data are far from "amazing" for top 20 caliber player.

Nah. It's pretty easy. And he has a great case for top three in all of those seasons.

[70sFan]

It's easily in the top ten.

I don't think it's"easily" when you can "easily" think about ~12 players with arguably better 10 years prime than him.

Top 3ish player in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010

I don't think most people have Kobe in top 3 in 2002. 2003, 2006 and 2007 are also arguable.

Amazing impact metrics, incredible postseason runs, all-time great peak, ridiculous statistical seasons, etc

What do you mean by "impact metrics"? The ones derived from plus minus data are far from "amazing" for top 20 caliber player.

Nah. It's pretty easy. And he has a great case for top three in all of those seasons.

His case for top 3 in 2002 is very weak and only because it's a relatively weak season.

[Primedeion]

Probably not meaningfully different from his career ranking, maybe a slight drop as Kobe had better than average longevity. So still somewhere in the teens.

Just thinking of guards.

No real case against (imo):
MJ
Magic
Curry (for career he'd be with Oscar, also dropping if you don't skip '20)

Has a case, but I prefer the other guy:
Oscar

Has a case, but I prefer Kobe:
West
CP3

So around #5 guard, can see a bit higher or lower, but not much.

I'd 100% put CP3 over Kobe.

How? The guy can't even stay on the floor.

[NbaAllDay]

I don't think it's"easily" when you can "easily" think about ~12 players with arguably better 10 years prime than him.


I don't think most people have Kobe in top 3 in 2002. 2003, 2006 and 2007 are also arguable.




What do you mean by "impact metrics"? The ones derived from plus minus data are far from "amazing" for top 20 caliber player.

Nah. It's pretty easy. And he has a great case for top three in all of those seasons.

His case for top 3 in 2002 is very weak and only because it's a relatively weak season.

Even if all this were true. There are at least 10 players who match/better everything listed here.

This is the general misconception. Kobe was an ATG and had a very strong peak. It can also be true that 10 people did it better.

[Kingdibs19]

Not even close to top 10. 17 to 25 range

[dygaction]

Laughable when Harden and Embiid are held accountable for not winning, CP3 and KG are going everywhere and put in the same sentence with Kobe, as if playoff suddenly not matter any more.

Russell, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Shaq, LeBron
That's it. Arguable Duncan, and a case can be made for Curry

[homecourtloss]

Laughable when Harden and Embiid are held accountable for not winning, CP3 and KG are going everywhere and put in the same sentence with Kobe, as if playoff suddenly not matter any more.

Russell, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Shaq, LeBron
That's it. Arguable Duncan, and a case can be made for Curry

Arguable Duncan? What would Kobe’s 10 year prime argument be against Duncan’s?

[70sFan]

Russell, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Shaq, LeBron
That's it. Arguable Duncan, and a case can be made for Curry

No Kareem? No Wilt?

[dygaction]

Russell, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Shaq, LeBron
That's it. Arguable Duncan, and a case can be made for Curry

No Kareem? No Wilt?

No wilt for lack of playoff success; no Kareem for lack of competition and team success in 70s and not enough individual success in 80s.
We are talking about a 10 yr window with 4 championships, 10x all-nba, 9x all-D high level of consistent excellency.

[70sFan]

Russell, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Shaq, LeBron
That's it. Arguable Duncan, and a case can be made for Curry

No Kareem? No Wilt?

No wilt for lack of playoff success; no Kareem for lack of competition and team success in 70s and not enough individual success in 80s.
We are talking about a 10 yr window with 4 championships, 10x all-nba, 9x all-D high level of consistent excellency.

Yeah, that's ridiculous.

[dygaction]

No Kareem? No Wilt?

No wilt for lack of playoff success; no Kareem for lack of competition and team success in 70s and not enough individual success in 80s.
We are talking about a 10 yr window with 4 championships, 10x all-nba, 9x all-D high level of consistent excellency.

Yeah, that's ridiculous.

Yeah, I know, and people act as if it is for a one year or career thing.

[70sFan]

No wilt for lack of playoff success; no Kareem for lack of competition and team success in 70s and not enough individual success in 80s.
We are talking about a 10 yr window with 4 championships, 10x all-nba, 9x all-D high level of consistent excellency.

Yeah, that's ridiculous.

Yeah, I know, and people act as if it is for a one year or career thing.

1964-73 Wilt with 2 titles and 6 finals appeariances is no playoff success, but Bird with 3 titles and 5 finals appeariances is above Kobe. 1971-80 Kareem with 2 titles and 3 finals appeariances had no team success. Lack of competition is completely arbitrary as well.

What's also funny is that Kobe won at most 4 titles in 10 years, with one missed playoff season and two first round exits, but somehow he's way above Wilt and Kareem for team success. All of that while being a worse player of course.

[dygaction]

Yeah, that's ridiculous.

Yeah, I know, and people act as if it is for a one year or career thing.

1964-73 Wilt with 2 titles and 6 finals appeariances is no playoff success, but Bird with 3 titles and 5 finals appeariances is above Kobe. 1971-80 Kareem with 2 titles and 3 finals appeariances had no team success. Lack of competition is completely arbitrary as well.

What's also funny is that Kobe won at most 4 titles in 10 years, with one missed playoff season and two first round exits, but somehow he's way above Wilt and Kareem for team success. All of that while being a worse player of course.

For the highest level players, no big difference among missing playoffs, 1st round exit, 2nd round exit.
2 titles with one being the 4th best scorer and 6 finals are a lot worse than 4 titles and 5 finals, right, especially when there were less than a dozen teams? Also worse than 3 titles and 5 finals. The same for Kareem for the period you cited.

[70sFan]

Yeah, I know, and people act as if it is for a one year or career thing.

1964-73 Wilt with 2 titles and 6 finals appeariances is no playoff success, but Bird with 3 titles and 5 finals appeariances is above Kobe. 1971-80 Kareem with 2 titles and 3 finals appeariances had no team success. Lack of competition is completely arbitrary as well.

What's also funny is that Kobe won at most 4 titles in 10 years, with one missed playoff season and two first round exits, but somehow he's way above Wilt and Kareem for team success. All of that while being a worse player of course.

For the highest level players, no big difference among missing playoffs, 1st round exit, 2nd round exit.
2 titles with one being the 4th best scorer and 6 finals are a lot worse than 4 titles and 5 finals, right, especially when there were less than a dozen teams? Also worse than 3 titles and 5 finals. The same for Kareem for the period you cited.

Who cares he was a 4th best scorer if he was the best player in the finals?

[dygaction]

1964-73 Wilt with 2 titles and 6 finals appeariances is no playoff success, but Bird with 3 titles and 5 finals appeariances is above Kobe. 1971-80 Kareem with 2 titles and 3 finals appeariances had no team success. Lack of competition is completely arbitrary as well.

What's also funny is that Kobe won at most 4 titles in 10 years, with one missed playoff season and two first round exits, but somehow he's way above Wilt and Kareem for team success. All of that while being a worse player of course.

For the highest level players, no big difference among missing playoffs, 1st round exit, 2nd round exit.
2 titles with one being the 4th best scorer and 6 finals are a lot worse than 4 titles and 5 finals, right, especially when there were less than a dozen teams? Also worse than 3 titles and 5 finals. The same for Kareem for the period you cited.

Who cares he was a 4th best scorer if he was the best player in the finals?

oh, thought somebody cared when Pierce the best player in the finals.

[70sFan]

For the highest level players, no big difference among missing playoffs, 1st round exit, 2nd round exit.
2 titles with one being the 4th best scorer and 6 finals are a lot worse than 4 titles and 5 finals, right, especially when there were less than a dozen teams? Also worse than 3 titles and 5 finals. The same for Kareem for the period you cited.

Who cares he was a 4th best scorer if he was the best player in the finals?

oh, thought somebody cared when Pierce the best player in the finals.

You didn't answer my question.

You also avoided comparing MVPs this time, I wonder why?

[dygaction]

Who cares he was a 4th best scorer if he was the best player in the finals?

oh, thought somebody cared when Pierce the best player in the finals.

You didn't answer my question.

You also avoided comparing MVPs this time, I wonder why?

What questions did you have? One MVP, two Finals MVP, four championships, two scoring titles, 10x all-nba, 9x all-D, 3x all-star MVP. I gave the reason why i did not have Kareem, his mvps were in the nba dark era with extremely weak competitions, and he did not win much even then. MVP when not making playoffs is a record. If you just count scoring+rebound, he was better.

[70sFan]

oh, thought somebody cared when Pierce the best player in the finals.

You didn't answer my question.

You also avoided comparing MVPs this time, I wonder why?

What questions did you have? One MVP, two Finals MVP, four championships, two scoring titles, 10x all-nba, 9x all-D, 3x all-star MVP. I gave the reason why i did not have Kareem, his mvps were in the nba dark era with extremely weak competitions, and he did not win much even then. MVP when not making playoffs is a record. If you just count scoring+rebound, he was better.

Or if you count who was a better player, then he was better indeed...

[Asianiac_24]

CP3 over Kobe? Does flaming out or getting injured in the playoffs not count? You’d rather have a player who always get injured in the playoffs, feuds with his teammates AND having it cause issues on the court? Kobe had issues with Shaq but they won 3 straight.

[Mazter]

I have Lebron, Kareem, Russell, Jordan, Bird, wilt, Magic and Duncan (in that order) before him. Than I could put Kobe in a group with Olajuwon, Shaq, Durant and Curry. He might barely make the top 10.