Retro Player of the Year 1952-53 — George Mikan

[AEnigma]

Offensive Player of the Year
2. Larry Foust

Foust had a strong regular season but like Cousy (although to a lesser degree), Foust set himself apart in the play-offs… I gave some consideration to Mikan but at this point in his career I don't see him making another offensive ballot for me

Foust was a relatively balanced player, but I would say he skews more to defence than to offence. In the regular season he is 11th in points per game (estimated 10th in points per possession) on marginally positive efficiency. Not a playmaker. You are putting him second almost entirely off his playoff run… yet you are discounting the guy who outscored Foust head-to-head on better (51.3% versus 47.1%) efficiency while being a better passer and having a much better regular season. High odds Mikan grabbed more offensive rebounds too.

Over his career I'd agree on Foust being slightly more defense minded although he was still pretty balanced. He also had a strong scoring season this year though and yes, his play-off run carries a lot of weight here. I've never made it a secret the play-offs are a huge part of my process no matter if it's only small sample sizes, you don't show up when it matters most and you're out while guys on the outside looking in can definitely make a case with a good run.

I am not questioning voting for him highly in general, I am questioning him as the second most valuable offensive player in the league.

I also wouldn't say I'm discounting Mikan but he had pretty notable efficiency drop off in the play-offs, while Foust pretty much went the opposite way on much higher volume as well.

And one was starting from the point of fringe top ten volume scorer on league average efficiency while one was starting from the point of top two volume scorer on high efficiency.

How can that be then when Mikan outperformed Foust on offense in their head to head match up? Well because Mikan averaged 13.5 PPG in the first round

That series lasted two games. Through the conference finals, Mikan averaged the same points per game as Foust on better efficiency, while still being a better rebounder, passer, and playmaker.

and then only shot 30.9% from the field in the finals.

But Foust did not play well enough to even get to the Finals. You are essentially penalising Mikan for committing the cardinal sin of winning their head-to-head match-up and series but then being inefficient in a 4-1 Finals win where he scored 40% more points than any other player.

[trex_8063]

Gonna kinda edit this one as I have time to do so; thus, it will become more complete as time goes by.....


Player of the Year
1. George Mikan - I'm still going with the big guy. Best player on the best team; led them in ppg, rpg [comfortably in both; 2nd and 1st in the league, respectively], 3rd on team in apg and TS%: a nice +3.5% rTS while having the highest pts/100 rate in the league.
All the while, of course, he's still the best rim-protector/shot-blocker in the league at this time (save maybe Mel Hutchins????); at any rate the anchor of the league's best defense.
Efficiency in the playoffs falls, though still +0.9% rTS, while averaging 19.8/15.4 as they steam-roll everyone (the Pistons the only team that give them even a little trouble). He's the league's best PER, best WS/48 [2nd in total WS], and 2nd-best estimated BPM [2nd in VORP, too]. However, the one guy ahead of him in BPM/VORP had an atrocious [and brief] playoff run this year, and the one guy ahead in WS had 12 total wins on the year.
For me, I just don't see enough to challenge the notion that this was still the best in basketball.

2. Bob Cousy - ZeppelinPage's stirring account of this season convinced me that he's underrated by the box metrics this year. The Celtics had the best offense in the league, and as I believe eminence said: he was the head of the snake.
The 50-pt carry-job in G2 against the Nationals is utterly epic; it's like he pulled off a heater-Doncic game. Would LOVE to see full-game footage of that one.
Played pretty well in the Knick series, too, in a losing effort. It's just a monster year.

3. Dolph Schayes - Field is really wide open after Mikan and Cousy, imo. I've never been as playoff-centric as many posters here, so no reason to break from that habit (particularly here, where we're talking about a 2-game sample).
Schayes was the preeminent anchor of the 2nd-best offense in the league, leading the team in ppg, TS%, almost assuredly in offensive rebounds, and 3rd in assists.
He's 3rd in the league in PER and WS/48 (4th in total WS); was 1st in both estimated BPM and VORP.
17.8 ppg @ +5.0% rTS is a strong showing for an era where even the best offensive teams weren't scoring 90 ppg; to go along with 13.0 and 3.2 (all for a solid rs team), that's a good year. I don't have it in me to over-penalize that body of work based on a 2-game sample.

4. Ed Macauley - So hard to pick 'em. For reasons given below in OPOY, I'm going with Ed. I know his defense probably isn't good, but his synergy with Cousy is solid and that team had potential (sort of like the SSOL Suns) to contend (or at least they could if the Lakers didn't exist), with him damn near looking like a 1b on that team (although it's probably, to some degree, a statistical mirage, much like Amare vs Nash on those Suns teams).
At any rate, he's got the numbers, it certainly seems to have contributed to what made this team good, so I'm giving him the nod for 4th.

5. Harry Gallatin - Only 12.4 ppg, though on a wicked +8.0% rTS, to go with 13.1 rpg (which he was getting in <34 mpg; averaged a league-best [I think] 20.25 reb/100). More or less maintained his rate and efficiency in the playoffs, though they lowered his minutes somewhat. That was very much an ensemble effort, though, from a pretty deep team. Not sure if they went more with Connie Simmons in the Finals because Connie was taller [to guard Mikan]??

Lots of guys I could also see going with for 4th or 5th: first and foremost Neil Johnston. But also Vern Mikkelsen, Paul Seymour, Bob Davies. I may or may not edit this ballot later.


Offensive Player of the Year
1. Bob Cousy - Again: the "head of the snake". Leading the league in assists by a solid margin, while also being a considerable scorer who had an awesome playoff run.

2. Ed Macauley - I don't know if this seems weird giving the top 2 to teammates; but with him being 3rd in ppg, 2nd in TS Add, and also posting a very impressive [2nd on team, something like 6th of 7th in league] 4.1 apg, I've got to give him some love.

3. Neil Johnston - OK, I know no one else is going to give him any consideration because of how bad the team was; so I am. Trouncing the league as a scorer (25 pts/100 at nearly +9% rTS, and this in a whopping 45+ mpg) has to be worth something. The supporting cast was awful. I'd like to point out that the year before a peak Paul Arizin---who had a full season of Andy Phillip, plus 15-16 mpg of Neil Johnston [already showing as a promising scorer], and George Senesky hadn't fallen off a cliff yet either---still only managed a .500 record (and sub-zero SRS) the year before. Johnston has NONE of these three things (Phillip, non-declined Senesky, or a promising bench player) this year.
To some degree, this placement is a counter-balance to my leaving him off my POY ballot (I think he has a fine case for at least 5th).

My top HM in this category is probably Dolph Schayes (followed by Bob Davies and George Mikan [perhaps Bill Sharman, too]).


Defensive Player of the Year
1. George Mikan - I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt in this category. The limited video of his shot-blocking is mostly from these later years, and he looks like a dominant defensive deterrent. I know he likely had a little better defensive help than Clifton, but the defense he anchored appears substantially better (by another -1.4 in DRtg). And he's certainly the more dominant rebounder.

2. Nat Clifton - Give him the nod here as the apparent anchor of the 2nd-best defense.

3. Mel Hutchins - His estimated BPM comes out pretty high, despite frankly poor offensive contributions. And his team was the 3rd-best defense in the league.

If I have an HM in this category, I suppose it's Paul Seymour.

[Dr Positivity]

Oops, I forgot to put Hutchins on my ballot. I believe he is the DeBusschere of this era on that end, his greatest defensive performance looks like in 56 when he holds Pettit coming off a 26ppg MVP season to 14.6ppg on 31% FG in Pistons win, while this year his team is poor but he has a solid team defense rank. He gets solid accolades with 4x allstar and a 4th/8th MVP finishes despite average offensive stats which would make sense if they were high on his D.

[AEnigma]

Offensive Player of the Year
1. Bob Cousy
I had him top of the league last year, and his two primary competitors were… well, less competitive.
I think the focus on that Nationals Game 2 distracts from his tepid play against the Knicks, but no one else is a serious consideration for me regardless.

2. Bob Davies
Wanzer was better in the postseason. In 1954, maybe you could argue Wanzer was better in the regular season too. However, throughout 1953 it was Davies’s team for 70 (or say 66) games, and Wanzer looking better in an 3-game upset loss is not enough to swing me on team hierarchy when taking a medium-volume scoring guard over the league’s clear second-best playmaker.

3. Ed Macauley
Still skeptical of his total value as a player, but he was one of the two most effective scorers in the league, and unlike with Johnston, he was an effective passing big whose scoring maintained impressively well into the playoffs. Considered Schayes here, but in RPoY voting I am probably going to give him a relative pass for his terrible playoff showing, so this exclusion can be his penalty.

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Nat Clifton
2. George Mikan
Looks like both unanimous streaks will end here. With Mikan I have repeatedly expressed that I am more confident in his defence than in his offence. In 1950 specifically, I raised concerns about the idea of him being both the league’s best offensive player and its best defensive player… yet not necessarily having the team results or otherwise negative team context to intuitively justify that. Well, now we have arrived at the other side of that problem. Mikan is not on my OPoY ballot, but he is the best offensive player on his team and is still among the best in the league. So… why is a team with what we have been consistently assessing as the league’s best defensive point guard, small forward, power forward, and centre not consistently putting up results like 1952?

Then I look at the Knicks. Clifton, Gallatin, and a bunch of guys who I would assess as defensively adequate somehow get pretty close to those Lakers, and Mikan has the least efficient series of his career going up against them (not that it ultimately matters). I also know that in two years, the Lakers will take a hit without Mikan… but not an overwhelming one (or at least, not without thinking more highly of Clyde Lovellette). All that creates enough of a question in my mind that I am going to side with Clifton this year, even if only as the 1a to Mikan’s 1b.

3. Mel Hutchins
Not an inspiring choice, but he has a high minutes load on a capable defence and relatively consistent (for the era) impact. I am a little interested in how the Olympians (Graboski) were able to limit Mikan, but for a seasonal award, Hutchins did more to earn a ballot spot.

Player of the Year
1. George Mikan
2. Bob Cousy
3. Dolph Schayes
4. Larry Foust
5. Nat Clifton
Usual process here — and there will be and have been plenty of exceptions — is to look at the four semifinalists and then any other top regular season teams. Lakers win the title, and Mikan was the best player in both the postseason and regular season. Easy choice at #1. Knicks are the runners-up. In the prior two years, they were left off my ballot for being too much of an ensemble. This year they are still an ensemble, but they finally pair their Finals run with a top two regular season, bolstering their argument for representation. The semifinalists are the Pistons (Foust as primary representative), who upset the Royals (Davies as ~primary representative), and the Celtics (Cousy as primary representative), who upset the Nationals (Schayes as primary representative). Among those six names, Davies / the Royals has the flimsiest case, with the league’s fourth-best SRS, fifth-best record, and a first round loss where the best player was on the other team (Foust). The only other potential considerations here are Johnston, for whom I agree that twelve wins is too severe a bar for conceivable league relevance, and Macauley, for whom the issue is that I never reward teams with multiple ballot spots if they miss the Finals.

No one on the Knicks is a star on par with Cousy/Schayes/Foust, so they are the fifth spot. Of the Knicks, I agree with the chorus that Clifton was their top player across the regular season and most of the postseason. Similarly, Schayes having a bad two games is not sufficient for me to move him behind the otherwise inferior Foust, nor do I believe Foust achieved enough to justify being placed ahead of Cousy’s more compelling regular season and postseason, so fourth place goes to him. Finally, Cousy was not as good a player as Schayes generally, but not only was Schayes undoubtedly worse in their first round matchup, Schayes also probably cost his team the entire series. Accordingly, he falls to third after a spectacular regular season, while Cousy secures his first (and likely only) second place finish.

[One_and_Done]

Again, I don't feel I have alot of offer for this proto-basketball era, except to go with Mikan again as he still seems to be the stand-out for whatever That's worth.

1. George Mikan - as discussed, still the best player on both ends.
2. Dolph Schayes, based on his seeming impact for his team, and
3. Cousy I guess? Just because he seems to have performed well in the playoffs, and brought a new element to the game that seemingly had alot of impact.

I rank them with no confidence. I feel more confident about what players couldn't do at this time, rather than the granular differences between these archaic old timers.

[eminence]

Voting Post - overall might be the 2nd weakest season of the project (with '50) with Arizin/Groza gone and Davies aging

Player of the Year
1. George Mikan
Another pretty clear #1. Lakers defense dominated through the whole season and Mikan was once again clearly their lead guy on O. Some relative PO scoring woes might lower this season a half step below his last season, but hard to punish him relative to the competition when the Lakers go 6-1 in the 'bad' games. I'll give a bit of a bonus to great players/teams for getting up to dominate season after season as long as they get over the line at the end of the year, and this is the Lakers 5th title in 6 years, Mikans 6th in 7.

2. Bob Cousy
Celtics were strong on offense, Cousy ran the offense. Gap in team hierarchy seemed to widen in the playoffs. A couple factors make the gap between he/peak Davies look wider than it is imo, but with Davies fading Cousy is really the only guard left capable of this overall offensive load. I'm a bit disappointed that Red's goon strategy got rewarded vs the Nationals in game 2, but 30/32 from the line is a beyond clutch performance from Cousy, and they needed every one of them. Cousy is showing consistent/strong playoff translation.

3. Dolph Schayes
As close to Mikan during the regular season as we've seen yet. The PO 'run' was rough, but bluntly it was 1.5 games. I just don't see enough from anyone else this season to drop him any further. '53 after his arm healed last season is supposedly when he really started adding the outside shot to his game.

4. Nat Clifton
Tricky player to judge, the scoring efficiency is really rough. But the Knicks got it done as best they have in the RS and went to the Finals again, with relatively weaker competition this year I think this is the chance to reward them. Clifton anchored the D and showed enough periphery offensive skills for me to have some faith in him to not be a clear negative on that end despite the scoring efficiency. Don't treat the Bullets series as a real playoff series, that team was horrific. Celtics/Lakers are how I'd judge them.

5. Larry Foust
Fairly balanced traditional big. Clogged up the lane on defense and scored some buckets down low at moderate efficiency. Hit the boards. As low of playmaking duties as was possible in the era doesn't point in a good direction for his general feel for the game (at least on offense). Appears to have outplayed Risen solidly in a very close 1st round win over the Royals. Then a fine enough performance against Mikan and the Lakers in the next round.

HMs:
Macauley - Had a 4-7 tier, all good bigs, quite varied, different views could put them in any order. Strongest offensively of the bunch.
Johnston - The team is just a bit too bad for me to put him on my ballot yet, he'll be making it going forward.

OPOY - very tricky ballot
1. Bob Cousy
Pretty easy pick for me here, Boston was the best offense, Cousy was the lead and that magnified in the playoffs.

2. Dolph Schayes
Crappy playoff outing be damned, Schayes was great. Less likely to punish PO outings in the Offensive/Defensive voting.

3. Ed Macauley
Strong all around offensive game, a great #2 to Cousy. Just not impressed enough by any of the other #1s this go around to displace him. (Davies probably the closest)

DPOY
1. George Mikan
Lakers keep rolling, Mikan keeps doing his thing, as strong as ever on the glass, still easily the most intimidating post presence in the league down low.

2. Nat Clifton
Results are there. Got help from Gallatin on the glass, but I think the evidence points towards Clifton being more essential to their D overall. It's not always true, but I do think there's something to looking at Assists as an estimate for game understanding for defensive bigs who aren't just overwhelming teams with size. And Clifton was one of the top assisting bigs of the era.

3. Mel Hutchins
Others in the running, but I'll go Hutchins here. The team was bad but not terrible, and outright decent on defense. He has the rep and some decent results to back it up.

[Djoker]

VOTING POST

Player of the Year

1. George Mikan - Still the main man in the league. Top 10 offensive player and the best defensive player in the league. 1st Team All-NBA. His team clawed its way to another title behind a #1 defense. This may be his last year at the helm and it's not as clear cut as prior years as Mr. Basketball started his decline but he's still an absolute force down low on both ends.

2. Bob Cousy - The engine of the #1 offense in the league. 1st Team All-NBA. Averaged 19.8/6.3/7.7 on 44.6 %TS (+0.1 rTS) then took it up another notch with 25.5/4.2/6.2 on 50.3 %TS (+5.8 rTS) in the postseason.

3. Neil Johnston - I know he played on a bad team but the man led the league in scoring and averaged 22.3/13.9/2.8 on 53.4 %TS (+8.9 rTS). 1st Team All-NBA. Arizin was gone for military service and Andy Phillip missed most of the season so the struggles are to be expected. He was a great player.

4. Ed Macauley - Always a metronome of efficiency. 1st Team All-NBA. 20.3/9.1/4.1 on 54.3 %TS (+9.8 rTS) in the regular season then 16.8/9.7/3.5 on 53.3 %TS (+8.8 rTS). Surely he benefited from Cous to get him good looks but still think he's a solid pick at this spot.

5. Dolph Schayes - Strong regular season all-around as always but very poor playoffs. 1st Team All-NBA.

Offensive Player of the Year

1. Bob Cousy
2. Neil Johnston
3. Ed Macauley

Defensive Player of the Year

1. George Mikan
2. Nat Clifton - Anchored the #2 best defense in the league.
3. Slater Martin

[Doctor MJ]

POY
1. George Mikan (Mpl)
2. Bob Cousy (Bos)
3. Dolph Schayes (Syr)
4. Sweetwater Clifton (NY)
5. Slater Martin (Mpl)

So I'll start it with this: Looking at the All-NBA 1st team, that gives me 4 guys - Mikan, Cousy, Schayes & Macauley that I'm strongly considering here.

With Mikan & Schayes they're just the clear stand outs of good/great teams.

With Cousy & Macauley they're on the same team, and their relationship needs to be parsed out. I've used the term "influence" to distinguish from +/- impact, and primacy is a related term. I think it's clear that Cousy has clearly the strongest influence on how the Celtics are playing in this era - and particularly so on offense over his wingmen who he was creating for.

Does that mean Cousy was always the most impactful/valuable? No...but while the team still has the best ORtg (and Cousy's still not a negative relative efficiency guy to boot) I think I have to give him the nod.

And in the Cousy vs Schayes comparison, hard not to give Cousy the nod this year after that playoff series, but I think I knocked Schayes too much for that small sample in the past.

So then Macauley's battling for one of the last two spots, and I end up going with Sweets & Slater instead. How did I make these decisions?

Well, with Clifton, it begins with him being the MVP of a superior team to the one Macauley's the 2nd best player on. We see the series between the two teams, and I'd call Clifton the MVP of that series. Then there's the matter that I just think Clifton with his all-around game was a better matchup against elite opponents than Macauley.

What about Martin? Well, I'm perhaps overly infatuated with his story, but three things to consider together:

1. The Mikan-driven offensive scheme was designed to get the ball in to Mikan's (or an interior player's) hands, and I think that tended to make the statistics of the perimeter Lakers look way worse than what they were capable of...and this seems to have led the Lakers to actually believe a guard like Martin was unimportant which is why he later leaves the team.

2. I'm struck though when I see certain statlines for players who might thing don't have a proverbial "bag" to attack the defense with. Look at the winner-take-all Game 5 between the Lakers & Pistons and who do we have getting to the free throw line repeatedly to efficiently tie Mikan for highest scorer in the game? Not Pollard or Mikkelsen, but Martin. Interesting.

3. Fast forward years and both Martin and Macauley are on the Hawks, and despite Martin being several years older while Macauley's still at a prime age, who becomes critical to the champion core? Once again, it's Martin, and once again, it's not Macauley.

Last note, that 5th 1st team guy is of course Neil Johnston. I don't want to be overly critical of a guy who could mostly do his thing the same way on a great team and add value, but I mean it when I say I don't think he was actually adding value this season to any meaningful degree. As in: Take him off the roster, I don't think the team, or even the offense, gets much worse.

I think what we see from the Warriors in '52-53 is a great example of how a team can think they're using the best scheme for their talent because they are building a guy with a really clear skill, but there can be subtle costs to this approach that turn teammates into something less than replacement level in what it demonstrates.

OPOY
1. Bob Cousy (Bos)
2. Ed Macauley (Bos)
3. George Mikan (Mpl)

I think Boston is the clear class of the league with two clear top players. While I don't think it's clear that the offense is so good good it warrants this much dominance in my list, the fact is that these are the two guys I'm debating. I'll also say putting Cousy 2 and Macauley at HM in my POY feels like too much of a gap to me, and I can see an argument for Macauley over Schayes there just like here.

Why Mikan over Schayes for the 3rd spot? Playoffs. Yeah it's a small sample for Schayes, but it's Mikan being the offensive focal point of the champion after a year where the Lakers were a good RS offense and Mikan was still a positive efficiency guy while Schayes is at home recovering from the wounds of the season.

Last: It was noted - I think by eminence - that candidates this year were weak. Indeed they were, and Mikan can thank the loss/dropoff of Arizin & Davies for getting one more ballot spot from me.

DPOY
1. George Mikan (Mpl)
2. Sweetwater Clifton (NY)
3. Mel Hutchins (Mil)

I strongly considered Clifton for the top spot here but have to still side with Mikan. In general, these are the two great professional rivals among bigs in this age, but Mikan just always seemed too have just a bit too much for Clifton, and of course, he's still leading the best defense to a title here, while also fouling Clifton out to close out the finals.

Hutchins arrives as a clear defensive force this year, and I'm giving him the nod over guys like Martin or Seymour who were also worthy.

unoffical COY:
1. Joe Lapchick (NY)
2. Red Auerbach (Bos)
3. John Kundla (Mpl)

Seems fitting to give Lapchick the nod at this time with his team achieving 3 straight Finals appearances despite not having a best-in-league type of star. Shout out to the Original Celtics!

To the new Celtics, with the incorporation of Sharman Auerbach now has the premier offense of this era about to hit apex. Impressive, and noteworthy given the defensive focus we know is to come.

As before, Kundla kinda gets on by default. I really doubt people thought the Lakers were a sure thing at this point, but they kept on winning.

[ZeppelinPage]

POY
1. Bob Cousy
2. George Mikan
3. Dolph Schayes
4. Nat Clifton
5. Ed Macauley

OPOY
1. Bob Cousy
2. Ed Macauley
3. George Mikan

DPOY
1. George Mikan
2. Nat Clifton
3. Mel Hutchins

Tough ballot. Mikan still led his team to a championship, but he did struggle to score more than usual, especially against Nat Clifton, him and Cousy are clear top two for me here. Schayes, Clifton, and Macauley all stand out among the rest of the competitors for the roles they played on their team. Cousy and Macauley should definitely be top 3 for OPOY, and Mikan did have a lot on his shoulders to score. Hutchins will end up as the best defensive player in the league soon, and I came close to giving Nat Clifton DPOY for his performance in the Finals, but I do think that Mikan's impact as a rebounder was just still too much value.

[LA Bird]

Edit: Changed from Gallatin to Clifton for 4 with reasoning in post #39

Player of the Year
1. George Mikan
2. Dolph Schayes
3. Bob Cousy
4. Nat Clifton
5. Neil Johnston

Not the best year from Mikan but the competition wasn't that great either so he gets another #1 placing by default.

Celtics had the best offense in the league but they were only 5th of 10 teams by SRS overall. And while Cousy was the offensive anchor, they easily had the best offensive #2 and #3 in the league with the emergence of Sharman. Very strong performance in the playoffs especially directly against Schayes which understandably would shift some votes but 2 games is not going to fundamentally shift my opinion of how good a player is. Schayes in 53 and 54 was the closest any player ever got to Mikan.

The Warriors record was trash but the rest of the roster was a complete joke after the departure of Arizin and Phillip . 65 Wilt pre-trade was on a Warriors that was dead last in the league too and he would still make my top 5. One of the weakest MVP years so Johnston just barely makes it.

[Dr Positivity]

I can't get on board with the Clifton>Gallatin votes since I believe Gallatin is also a great defender. Clifton is a good passer but I still believe Gallatin is a different level on offense due to huge efficiency advantage.

[AEnigma]

I can't get on board with the Clifton>Gallatin votes since I believe Gallatin is also a great defender. Clifton is a good passer but I still believe Gallatin is a different level on offense due to huge efficiency advantage.

I think when you are a seventh man for a team’s postseason, that functionally disqualifies you as their best player.

Does not prevent anyone from voting for Gallatin for other reasons, but he was not the main part of their Finals run.

[Dr Positivity]

I think when you are a seventh man for a team’s postseason, that functionally disqualifies you as their best player.

Based on incomplete minute data, for the record, although based on his points totals it's possible his minutes got yanked around on a deep team.

[eminence]

I think when you are a seventh man for a team’s postseason, that functionally disqualifies you as their best player.

Based on incomplete minute data, for the record, although based on his points totals it's possible his minutes got yanked around on a deep team.

The totals are complete I believe, we just don't have all the individual game box scores.

[Doctor MJ]

I think when you are a seventh man for a team’s postseason, that functionally disqualifies you as their best player.

Based on incomplete minute data, for the record, although based on his points totals it's possible his minutes got yanked around on a deep team.

But hold on, you're still talking about a situation where Clifton is beating Gallatin in points, rebounds, and assists. If you don't actually think that he had a minutes advantage, then you have to try to explain how Clifton averaged more P, R & A on less minutes when that isn't how things were typically.

Now, Gallatin is the better scorer generally and was more efficient so I don't want to talk as if you can't make an argument that Gallatin was more valuable than Clifton even with his stat shrinkage in these playoffs, but when we talk about defense in the context of the DPOY it just gets weird to me. To me Gallatin's whole defensive argument over Clifton would be largely about his rebounding totals, because Clifton is the one with more of a rep for defense in my recollection, but in a post-season where he doesn't even have the edge there, to me there's really no reason at all to look at these playoffs as something making us more confident in him playing the critical role on defense.

[Dr Positivity]

I think when you are a seventh man for a team’s postseason, that functionally disqualifies you as their best player.

Based on incomplete minute data, for the record, although based on his points totals it's possible his minutes got yanked around on a deep team.

Ok, you're right that they have a total of 303 minutes in 11 games, so it appears that coincidentally it was almost exactly same 27.5-27.6 mpg as those 5 games anyways, which is still not really that terrible a number or enough to make it impossible he was the most valuable.

[AEnigma]

It is not strictly impossible, no. Just extremely, extremely unlikely, and even if you give him no penalty for low minutes in wins, he deserves them if he as their best player could not give more while losing the Finals.

[Dr Positivity]

I think when you are a seventh man for a team’s postseason, that functionally disqualifies you as their best player.

Based on incomplete minute data, for the record, although based on his points totals it's possible his minutes got yanked around on a deep team.

But hold on, you're still talking about a situation where Clifton is beating Gallatin in points, rebounds, and assists. If you don't actually think that he had a minutes advantage, then you have to try to explain how Clifton averaged more P, R & A on less minutes when that isn't how things were typically.

Now, Gallatin is the better scorer generally and was more efficient so I don't want to talk as if you can't make an argument that Gallatin was more valuable than Clifton even with his stat shrinkage in these playoffs, but when we talk about defense in the context of the DPOY it just gets weird to me. To me Gallatin's whole defensive argument over Clifton would be largely about his rebounding totals, because Clifton is the one with more of a rep for defense in my recollection, but in a post-season where he doesn't even have the edge there, to me there's really no reason at all to look at these playoffs as something making us more confident in him playing the critical role on defense.

He doesn’t have to be better than Clifton on D though, just closer than their margin on offense if one sees a gap between them

These arguments are convincing me Gallatin can be dropped for his weird playoff minutes/finals numbers, but not for Clifton for me who I had as an mediocre offense/good D big, that makes him valuable piece on a winner, but I assumed that was a DPOY ballot not POY guy of top 5 in the whole league. eg I have no way of knowing if he’s better on D than Mikkelson whose offensive stats are clearly better, and even he didn’t make my top 5. I voted for Seymour who I rated as the best defender at SG, with better offense than Clifton as an efficient 14ppg with passing, so for Clifton to be higher he has to make up a lot of ground on D, but is that for sure?

[LA Bird]

Just noticed that in my rush to vote, I forgot to add my thoughts for the Knicks. They had a 4 point improvement on defense over the year before and after but there aren't any major roster changes to explain it. Unless the argument is that Clifton had an outlier defensive year in 53 specifically, it's hard to credit him alone with all that team defensive improvement. And even with the better defense, they were still almost as good on offense (+2.5) as defense (-2.7). There would be a stronger case for Clifton if the Knicks was a heavily one way defensive team (eg. -1 offense, -6 defense). OTOH, Gallatin's minutes did take a big hit in the playoffs and he was basically dead last on the team in assists per 36 which really offsets his efficiency advantage on offense. This is a tough one and I might honestly be swayed by Clifton's raw WOWY numbers in 50/51 (Knicks -11 MOV over 5 games without him).

[eminence]

You could argue Zaslofsky to Braun as a pretty big roster change.