Retro Player of the Year 1980-81 UPDATE — Larry Bird

[penbeast0]

Can anybody explain me how the Sixers are much better than the Bucks talent-wise? I keep reading that being repeated, but I see no reason to believe that at all.

Lanier was better than Dawkins, but Moncrief wasn’t the Moncrief of late yet. Bridgemen pretty much disappeared after game 1. No one could equal Caldwell Jones and Bobby Jones size and defense. Cheeks was superior to Quinn Bucker.

Let's break it down, listed in order of total minutes played v. the guy more or less filling the same role for the other team:

SF/star -- Erving v. Marques Johnson. Let's assume for the sake of argument that they are roughly similar in impact.

PF/interior defender -- Caldwell Jones v. Harvey Catchings. Both excellent defenders with no offensive game. Caldwell the more skilled on offense fwiw. Small edge Philadelphia mainly on leadership and intangibles.

SG/defensive stopper --Sidney Moncrief v. Lionel Hollins. Sid isn't as good as he will be the next year but still much the better scorer and defender, Hollins the better playmaker. Collins played only 12 games. Strong advantage Bucks.

PG/point of attack defender -- Mo Cheeks v. Quinn Buckner. Pretty close defensively, much as I loved Cheeks, Buckner was a terrific defender and probably a bit more disruptive at his peak. Cheeks owns him on efficiency on the offensive end, both shooting and creating without high turnovers. Strong advantage Sixers.

Instant offense guy -- Junior Bridgeman v. Andrew Toney. Bridgeman had a bigger role but Andrew Toney was a more efficient shooter on similar volumes and a better playmaker though he didn't have Bridgeman's size to play SF. Small advantage Sixers.

Two way combo forward -- Mickey Johnson v. Bobby Jones. Rubber Band Man started all 82 games for Milwaukee and did a fine job. Bobby Jones didn't play as many minutes but was more of a difference maker defensively and similarly impactful on offense. Strong Advantage Sixers.

Offensive center -- Darryl Dawkins v. Bob Lanier. Chocolate Thunder had incredible physical gifts and outscored, outrebounded, and got more blocks per minute than Bigfoot. More than a bit immature but more likely to take over games. Pick em.

4th guard -- Brian Winters v. Clint Richardson. Winters gave you more shooting range, Richardson better defense. Pick em.

4th forward -- Steve Mix v. Pat Cummings. Mix was a really good veteran; Cummings was one of the early stretch bigs. Both are way too good to play this role on most other teams. Pick em.

Moncrief is the biggest advantage for Milwaukee, he's better than either Hollins or Cheeks. On the flip side, Bobby Jones is better than Mickey Johnson and Philly also has an advantage on their 3rd guard with Toney and with their defensive PF with Caldwell Jones. I would say Philly has the better players around their star by a bit. I would, however, give Don Nelson in Milwaukee the coaching edge over Cunningham in Philly.

[DNice68]

Can anybody explain me how the Sixers are much better than the Bucks talent-wise? I keep reading that being repeated, but I see no reason to believe that at all.

Lanier was better than Dawkins, but Moncrief wasn’t the Moncrief of late yet. Bridgemen pretty much disappeared after game 1. No one could equal Caldwell Jones and Bobby Jones size and defense. Cheeks was superior to Quinn Bucker.

Let's break it down, listed in order of total minutes played v. the guy more or less filling the same role for the other team:

SF/star -- Erving v. Marques Johnson. Let's assume for the sake of argument that they are roughly similar in impact.

PF/interior defender -- Caldwell Jones v. Harvey Catchings. Both excellent defenders with no offensive game. Caldwell the more skilled on offense fwiw. Small edge Philadelphia mainly on leadership and intangibles.

SG/defensive stopper --Sidney Moncrief v. Lionel Hollins. Sid isn't as good as he will be the next year but still much the better scorer and defender, Hollins the better playmaker. Collins played only 12 games. Strong advantage Bucks.

PG/point of attack defender -- Mo Cheeks v. Quinn Buckner. Pretty close defensively, much as I loved Cheeks, Buckner was a terrific defender and probably a bit more disruptive at his peak. Cheeks owns him on efficiency on the offensive end, both shooting and creating without high turnovers. Strong advantage Sixers.

Instant offense guy -- Junior Bridgeman v. Andrew Toney. Bridgeman had a bigger role but Andrew Toney was a more efficient shooter on similar volumes and a better playmaker though he didn't have Bridgeman's size to play SF. Small advantage Sixers.

Two way combo forward -- Mickey Johnson v. Bobby Jones. Rubber Band Man started all 82 games for Milwaukee and did a fine job. Bobby Jones didn't play as many minutes but was more of a difference maker defensively and similarly impactful on offense. Strong Advantage Sixers.

Offensive center -- Darryl Dawkins v. Bob Lanier. Chocolate Thunder had incredible physical gifts and outscored, outrebounded, and got more blocks per minute than Bigfoot. More than a bit immature but more likely to take over games. Pick em.

4th guard -- Brian Winters v. Clint Richardson. Winters gave you more shooting range, Richardson better defense. Pick em.

4th forward -- Steve Mix v. Pat Cummings. Mix was a really good veteran; Cummings was one of the early stretch bigs. Both are way too good to play this role on most other teams. Pick em.

Moncrief is the biggest advantage for Milwaukee, he's better than either Hollins or Cheeks. On the flip side, Bobby Jones is better than Mickey Johnson and Philly also has an advantage on their 3rd guard with Toney and with their defensive PF with Caldwell Jones. I would say Philly has the better players around their star by a bit. I would, however, give Don Nelson in Milwaukee the coaching edge over Cunningham in Philly.

Great post!

[70sFan]

Can anybody explain me how the Sixers are much better than the Bucks talent-wise? I keep reading that being repeated, but I see no reason to believe that at all.

Lanier was better than Dawkins, but Moncrief wasn’t the Moncrief of late yet. Bridgemen pretty much disappeared after game 1. No one could equal Caldwell Jones and Bobby Jones size and defense. Cheeks was superior to Quinn Bucker.

Let's break it down, listed in order of total minutes played v. the guy more or less filling the same role for the other team:

SF/star -- Erving v. Marques Johnson. Let's assume for the sake of argument that they are roughly similar in impact.

PF/interior defender -- Caldwell Jones v. Harvey Catchings. Both excellent defenders with no offensive game. Caldwell the more skilled on offense fwiw. Small edge Philadelphia mainly on leadership and intangibles.

SG/defensive stopper --Sidney Moncrief v. Lionel Hollins. Sid isn't as good as he will be the next year but still much the better scorer and defender, Hollins the better playmaker. Collins played only 12 games. Strong advantage Bucks.

PG/point of attack defender -- Mo Cheeks v. Quinn Buckner. Pretty close defensively, much as I loved Cheeks, Buckner was a terrific defender and probably a bit more disruptive at his peak. Cheeks owns him on efficiency on the offensive end, both shooting and creating without high turnovers. Strong advantage Sixers.

Instant offense guy -- Junior Bridgeman v. Andrew Toney. Bridgeman had a bigger role but Andrew Toney was a more efficient shooter on similar volumes and a better playmaker though he didn't have Bridgeman's size to play SF. Small advantage Sixers.

Two way combo forward -- Mickey Johnson v. Bobby Jones. Rubber Band Man started all 82 games for Milwaukee and did a fine job. Bobby Jones didn't play as many minutes but was more of a difference maker defensively and similarly impactful on offense. Strong Advantage Sixers.

Offensive center -- Darryl Dawkins v. Bob Lanier. Chocolate Thunder had incredible physical gifts and outscored, outrebounded, and got more blocks per minute than Bigfoot. More than a bit immature but more likely to take over games. Pick em.

4th guard -- Brian Winters v. Clint Richardson. Winters gave you more shooting range, Richardson better defense. Pick em.

4th forward -- Steve Mix v. Pat Cummings. Mix was a really good veteran; Cummings was one of the early stretch bigs. Both are way too good to play this role on most other teams. Pick em.

Moncrief is the biggest advantage for Milwaukee, he's better than either Hollins or Cheeks. On the flip side, Bobby Jones is better than Mickey Johnson and Philly also has an advantage on their 3rd guard with Toney and with their defensive PF with Caldwell Jones. I would say Philly has the better players around their star by a bit. I would, however, give Don Nelson in Milwaukee the coaching edge over Cunningham in Philly.

I agree with that breakdown, with the exception that Lanier was way better player than Dawkins even at that point. Bob was still a highly impactful player in reduced roles while Dawkins is one of the players I find the most disappointing as far as impact to physical tools ratio goes.

I also think Winters offense gives you a bit more than Cliff defense. So in the end, I don't think any meaningful gap exists in either way. Marques vs Julius is a good discussion this season, arguing that Johnson lost because of much worse team doesn't hold up though.

[70sFan]

If Bird hadn’t been on the 1980 Celtics they’d have been much the same as they were in 79.

That's highly unlikely, considering significantly better health for all players and Bill Fitch change as a coach.

These guys were just not needle movers. Tiny got healthy in 1980 obviously, but it wouldn’t have made much difference. He got recognition because Bird made the Celtics great, not the other way around.

Any evidences to back it up?

Wilkes was 10th in MVP voting in 1981, and was a 3 time all-star who had gotten MVP votes on 3 different occasions.

It's funny that you find Wilkes worthy of MVP consideration, while thinking not highly of Maxwell, who played a better season this year...

Magic was hurt, but he was healthy in the playoffs.

Yeah and he played like trash in the playoffs, unlike Tiny.

I voted for Kareem 9/10 years, and have him rated top 3 all-time. I don’t think I’m unfairly maligning him here. Kareem was 33. Not many guys, especially bigs, are still in their prime at 33. Bird’s impact was just bigger at this point.

Again, what evidences can you provide that Bird has bigger impact than Kareem this season, outside of massively outlier Bird's signal from his rookie season?

The Bucks are similar. Moncrief would go on to become a superstar, but at age 23 he wasn’t that guy yet. As others have noted, he was particularly disappointing in the playoffs with 14ppg and 6.7rpg on weak efficiency.

Moncrief's main strength was never volume scoring, even at his peak. He was extremely good defensively during the playoffs and 6.7 rpg is a lot for a guard actually.

The only other guy worth discussing is Lanier, who I haven’t voted for even once. I don’t think that much of him. He was a good player and all, but not in his prime anymore. Post-prime Lanier and pre-prime Moncrief isn’t a better support cast than Erving or Kareem had.

Yeah, but that's because you don't know who guys like Bridgman or Winters were...

As I noted, Kareem had 2 all-stars outside of Magic (who was back by the playoffs), and a great role player in Cooper too. The Lakers problem in 81 was coaching, not talent. Even with Magic, they were 26-11 compared to 28-17 without him. Obviously having Magic helped, but they were only playing like a 57 win team even with Magic.

Have you ever thought that the reason why the Lakers were successful without Magic is because they had the best player in the league?

As for Philly, there’s more of an argument. Philly succeeded because of an ensemble cast of guys under Erving who fit well together and had well defined roles, rather than due to 1-2 talented sidekicks. They had a lot of good players though. Bobby Jones in particular, but also Caldwell, Dawkins, Hollins, and even a young Andrew Toney and Mo Cheeks. Every one of those 6 guys I just named had been or would be an all-star except for Dawkins (and Dawkins was a very solid starter too).

No, Dawkins wasn't a good starter. He's one dimensional scoring foul machine that was turnover prone and didn't defend well. He's known because of his unique playstyle and cool nickname, but I see no reason to believe he was ever a net positive player.

Dawkins was a strong defensive player.

No, Dawkins wasn't a strong defensive player at all. Where did you get that from?

You note that the Bucks went 6-0 without Marques, but that’s too small a sample to tell us much. Maybe they just played 6 weak or injured or tired teams in those 6 games, or maybe they got lucky.

You know it's easy to look at the list of opponents in those games, right?

[OhayoKD]

So Bird wasn't even 2nd last time, but now he's #1. The winning bias is real. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to have Bird #1 too, but I'm not sure he got much better. Statistically he's not much different, the team just added Parish and McHale.

He performed substantially better against the 76ers, and Erving and Kareem both performed substantially worse. Such a mystery!

Kareem had slipped a bit by this point. He was still a great player, but I don't think he had the impact of Bird or Marques. The Lakers had more talent than the Celtics or Bucks did, but performed worse than both. Some of that was the stupid coaching shift away from what worked the previous year, but even that serves to highlight how building a team around Kareem wasn't as much of a winning proposition as it used to be.

And why exactly did the Lakers have “more talent”? Why is Norm Nixon, third year Michael Cooper, Jamaal Wilkes, and 37 games of Magic so much better than Tiny Archibald, Cedric Maxwell, Robert Parish, and rookie McHale? Let alone Sidney Moncrief, Bob Lanier, and a stellar guard rotation of Quinn Buckner, Junior Bridgeman, and Brian Winters. The Bucks went 6-0 without Marques this year. In 1982, they go 16-6. From 1978-84, they go 32-18 without him in total. And you want to portray this as some untalented hard luck team being carried by this one 20ppg forward? Kareem went 28-17 without Magic this year; not enough of a “carry” for you?

I wanted to put Moses top 5, but I found myself wondering why his carry job was so much better than what Gervin did. The Spurs won more in the RS, and lost in 7 to a Rockets team that frankly had more support than Gervin did. If Gervin wins that narrow 7 game series, I'm sure he can beat the Kings and lose in the finals to the Celtics too.

Again, based on what was there this superior help. Was Gervin a good playmaker? No. Good defender? Absolutely not. He was a good scorer, but Moses outscored him and did so more efficiently. And then Moses replicated that feat when they met up in the postseason. Yet somehow your conclusion is that despite Moses being a bigger contributor on defence, and being a “better” scorer, and playing five hundred more minutes during the regular season, he actually had more help.

While Erving had slipped, and was a dubious MVP, he hadn't slipped so much that his impact was below the likes of Gervin or Moses. He just came up against the Celtics is all.

The 76ers with Erving outscored opponents by 351 points. Without Erving, they outscored opponents by 293 points. Great impact!

So, coming back to this. Some comments I’d make.

1) Strength of support casts

I don’t think much of Tiny or Maxwell on the Celtics. I didn’t think much of them in 1980, and I think even less of them now.

The Maxwell who shut down Malone while lead the Celtics in scoring in the finals?

For all your handwringing about impact signals, your assessment of bird and his teammates seems entirely predicated on that one-off unreplicated turnaround from 1980. Why do you describe everyone on the teams you're comparing in terms of accolades or hypothetical results as opposed to basketball?

Bird doesn't take out extra defenders with his assists, he doesn't draw defenders with ball-handling, he's ignored whenever he's outside the key, he can barely jump, he can't really slash, he relies on bigger teammates to do the real work to pick up rebounds, and in 81 he is averaging 21 at below average efficiency in a league with much lower effeciency(something you say isn't about rules but about skill).

You have no issue dismissing data for players who score effeciently, do not rely on teammates for rebounds, and take out alot more defenders via assists (cough Jokic cough). But when it comes to Bird you go out of your way to ignore how he actually played or produced or literally any signal other than that one off from 1980

Where the heck is Bird's allegedly Kareem level impact coming from. Explain to me in basketball terms what you think he does so well that he can literally average 20 at below league efficiency(outright terrible by your standards) and you will pretend he's carrying his team

[70sFan]

The Maxwell who shut down Malone while lead the Celtics in scoring in the finals?

Maxwell didn't defend Malone in the finals, Parish did. Robert regularly did an excellent job on Malone.

[AEnigma]

The Maxwell who shut down Malone while lead the Celtics in scoring in the finals?

Maxwell didn't defend Malone in the finals, Parish did. Robert regularly did an excellent job on Malone.

Cannot easily find Games 3-5, but can validate that Parish spent by far the most time on Moses in Game 6. Game 6 also reminded me (courtesy of the announcing team) that Parish was in severe foul trouble in Games 2 and 3… but McHale took on more of the Moses assignment in Game 2. If Maxwell did spend sustained time guarding Moses, it would have almost certainly only been in Game 3 (where both Parish and McHale barely played). Overall, Parish should be recognised as both the primary defender of and the defender who did the best job on Moses.

[Djoker]

The Maxwell who shut down Malone while lead the Celtics in scoring in the finals?

Maxwell didn't defend Malone in the finals, Parish did. Robert regularly did an excellent job on Malone.

Cannot easily find Games 3-5, but can validate that Parish spent by far the most time on Moses in Game 6. Game 6 also reminded me (courtesy of the announcing team) that Parish was in severe foul trouble in Games 2 and 3… but McHale took on more of the Moses assignment in Game 2. If Maxwell did spend sustained time guarding Moses, it would have almost certainly only been in Game 3 (where both Parish and McHale barely played). Overall, Parish should be recognised as both the primary defender of and the defender who did the best job on Moses.

Here is a YT playlist of the 1981 Finals; all full games too!

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMDZI0yMfjSPcQxu6zj96D7qpCKa2TOe0

[70sFan]

The Maxwell who shut down Malone while lead the Celtics in scoring in the finals?

Maxwell didn't defend Malone in the finals, Parish did. Robert regularly did an excellent job on Malone.

Cannot easily find Games 3-5, but can validate that Parish spent by far the most time on Moses in Game 6. Game 6 also reminded me (courtesy of the announcing team) that Parish was in severe foul trouble in Games 2 and 3… but McHale took on more of the Moses assignment in Game 2. If Maxwell did spend sustained time guarding Moses, it would have almost certainly only been in Game 3 (where both Parish and McHale barely played). Overall, Parish should be recognised as both the primary defender of and the defender who did the best job on Moses.

Can't find time to extract such information from the tracking data I got for now, but in G3 Rick Robey played 31 minutes and I remember him defending Moses throughout the game.

[70sFan]

Player of the Year
1. Moses Malone
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Larry Bird
4. Julius Erving
5. Marques Johnson
HM: George Gervin, Artis Gilmore

It's not an easy year for me, with no top tier candidate for POY. Kareem had the best RS in the league to me and people trying to sell the narrative that he got dominated by Moses in 3 games series just show they never watched the series (or watched it too long ago to remember anything). At the same time, he didn't play on his 1979-80 level against the Rockets and short postseason run hurts his case a bit (imagine Magic not playing the worst PS game of his career in elimination game - maybe we'd get another easy KAJ POY).

Moses didn't play on a good RS team. Some people may think it's underwhelming relative to the talent he played with and it's defensible take. At the same time though, I believe that Moses was overall the most consistent player in the postseason this year. He didn't face stiff competition, but still needed to beat much more talented Lakers team and Rockets weren't blown out in the finals against the Celtics like the year before.

As I said before, I am not that high on pre-1984 Bird but he still had an all-around fantastic season. Julius vs Marques is extremely close, I decided to give Erving the benefit of doubt, although it's his weakest season of the three-year 1980-82 span overall (ironically, he won MVP that year).

I am also open to Gilmore's case. Bulls were not competitive against the Celtics, but they destroyed much better Knicks team in short 2 game series (mainly thanks to Artis inside pressence) and Chicago team was actually better than the numbers might suggest at the end of the season:

First 42 games: +0.4 Net Rtg (42 wins pace), 20-20 record (41 wins pace)
Last 42 games: +3.3 Net Rtg (50 wins pace), 25-17 record (49 wins pace)

They were unfortunate to face a very bad stylistic matchup and Gilmore was unable to do much to stop the Celtics offense, but I hope to see more discussions towards him as I can see him as high 4th.

OPOY
1. Larry Bird
2. George Gervin
3. Moses Malone
HM: Julius Erving, Marques Johnson

DPOY
1. Caldwell Jones
2. Robert Parish
3. Dennis Johnson
HM: Artis Gilmore

[One_and_Done]

What did Bird do to make the Celtics improve so much from 79 to 80? That’s a good question. Obviously the biggest thing he did was transform their offense; not just by scoring, but through his floor game and offensive management. Some of it was likely his strong intangibles too. The Celtics improved their offense from 3rd last to 2nd in Bird’s first year. The defence improved too of course, from 3rd last to 4th in fact, but the actual swing was considerably less (106.4 Drtg to 101.9 Drtg v.s a swing of 101.6 Ortg all the way up to a then impressive 109.4 Ortg. The Celtics were a team who won primarily with their offense.

Obviously Bird wasn’t a big factor in their defensive improvement, but I do think he helped there with his defensive playmaking. He also helped by being a good team organiser, and most importantly because Bird was now carrying the offensive load it freed up other guys to focus on D more.

Tiny didn’t help their D in 1980 either, so I don’t think you can credit that aspect to him. The previous year they had Maxwell and Cowens playing even more minutes than they did in 1980, and the D was still horrible. The 5th starter was Ford, and he was there in 1979 too. I don’t see a big infusion in defensive players that came in and changed things, just ML Carr off the bench, so I honestly have to attribute most of the improvement on both ends to Bird for the reasons I outlined.

Guys like Tiny and Cowens were once big names. By 1980 they were not needle movers. In Cowens case, we can literally see it. Firstly, the team was bad the year before when he was leading it, and then in the 16 games he missed they were 12-4. If Tiny had missed games, I’m sure we’d have seen the same thing. These were guys who got Kyle Korver all-star nods that year because of how incredible Bird had made the team, leading to the idea that “well, the Celtics have to get X many all-stars because of how good they are”, but there’s little evidence I can see of them mattering much.

The biggest driver of the Celtics turnaround was clearly Bird. The other factors didn’t matter much.

[ShaqAttac]

MOSES
Beat Cap and Magic lakeshow and then forced Bird's superteam to 6 with scrubs. Rockets terrible when Moses leaves and goes fo fo fo fo so I think he has good impact. Good D and Great O.

KAREEM
he a goat but cant put him above someone who cooks him with less help moses. carried us without magic tho.

DOCTOR J
wins MVP without superteam and almost beats bos.

BIRD
his scoring looks bad and he prob choked vs the sixers and rox but a chip is a chip. like usual ppl making args for bird doing alot worse than people making args against.

ARTIS
Great D and good O. Marques impact looks bad and 70s makes good arg for gilmore.

[Dr Positivity]

The biggest driver of the Celtics turnaround was clearly Bird. The other factors didn’t matter much.

While there's no denying that, there's other reasons that could have helped and maybe turned a 50 W team into a 60 W one, like the coaching working better, locker room stuff (not that Bird doesn't help) and small changes like the before mentioned Carr being a key reserve, Archibald having a much better season, and 79 had some poor minute players, for example the old version of White sucks and is still shooting more than Maxwell in his games, PF Curtis Rowe is in last year and also putting up -4 BPM type of stats, and they're giving burn to rookie Jeff Judkins who didn't turn into much. In addition I'd argue having THE best record seems like overperforming when they lost in 5 games to the Sixers, maybe 55 would've been more fair.

To make a comparison the Warriors improved from play-in team to champion from 21 to 22 (starting 24-5 without Klay), not really making that many major changes, it was just small stuff like depth changes and some players having better seasons and for whatever reason, it seems like they just had the glue in a way they didn't in seasons like 2021 and 2023. Likewise the Celtics could've had those type of improvements (plus a coaching change) and while also adding a top 5 player.

[DNice68]

Marques impact looks bad.

Explain?

[Djoker]

VOTING POST

POY

1. Larry Bird - 1st Team All-NBA. Got even better from a sensational rookie year and this time translated it into the PS where he had a fantastic series against the Sixers which was the real finals. Amazing all-around player and IMO his defensive peak. He had a lot of energy on D and was just a force on the glass too on top of terrific shooting and passing. Averaged 21.2/10.9/5.5 on 52.8 %TS (-0.6 rTS) in the RS and then 21.9/14.0/6.1 on 53.2 %TS (+0.9 rTS) in the PS.

2. Moses Malone - 2nd Team All-NBA. Same dominant scoring and historic rebounding and then led an underdog team to the NBA Finals while playing really well in the process. Only Boston with its plethora of bigs boxing out could keep Moses off the offensive glass. Truly relentless. Averaged 27.8/14.8/1.8 on 58.5 %TS (+5.1 rTS) in the RS then 26.8/14.5/1.7 on 53.7 %TS (+1.7 rTS) in the PS.

3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 1st Team All-NBA. 1st Team All-Defense. Kareem was probably still the best player in the world based on ability but unlike the late 70's, the gap wasn't so big over the next best players that I would still pick him ahead with a poor PS run. And this was poor for Kareem. While he didn't get outplayed by Moses by any significant margin, he still didn't win the match-up and didn't have a good defensive series as his team lost as a heavy favorite in the 1st round. Yes it's a three game miniseries. At the end of the day Kareem at #1 isn't a terrible pick but I think it's ok here. Averaged 26.2/10.3/3.4 on 61.6 %TS (+8.2 rTS) in the RS and then 26.7/16.7/4.0 on 51.7 %TS (-1.8 rTS) in the PS.

4. Julius Erving - 1st Team All-NBA. MVP. Erving had a great RS for the best team in the league (+7.76 SRS) but his PS was underwhelming and he got badly outplayed by Bird as his team lost to the Celtics. The Doctor just couldn't impose himself on the series. He averaged 24.6/8.0/4.4 on 57.2 %TS (+3.8 rTS) in the RS then 22.9/7.1/3.4 on 52.7 %TS (+0.9 rTS) in the PS.

5. George Gervin - 1st Team All-NBA. Led the Spurs to the 2nd best finish in the West and had a good playoff run as they lost to the eventual finalists Rockets. Averaged 27.1/5.1/3.2 on 55.5 %TS (+2.1 rTS) in the RS then 27.1/5.0/3.4 on 54.7 %TS (+1.2 rTS) in the PS.

OPOY

1. Larry Bird - His passing makes him a great offensive anchor.

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Just lost a step from his prime.

3. George Gervin - Monster scorer. Actually not his best efficiency.

DPOY

1. Caldwell Jones - Best defender on the Sixers who were a defensive juggernaut. Minutes leader among their best defenders too.

2. Bobby Jones - Defensive great in his absolute prime also on the Sixers.

3. Dennis Johnson - Best defender on the #1 defense. Not higher because he's a guard. He can't keep up with the Jones'!

[One_and_Done]

Offensive Player of the Year

1. Moses Malone

Moses is a weird player to evaluate career-wise. On the one hand, he was probably the best offensive rebounder ever. On the other hand, he was relatively inefficient for a low post big man during his career, and his passing was absolutely atrocious, with his defense serviceable at best. The Rockets this season didn’t even have a winning record, though Moses’ efficiency was well above average, and his rebounding the best in the league. In the playoffs however, Malone remained one of the league’s more efficient scorers, and led Houston to the Finals, where they lost in six games to Boston. Considering how a lot of other players this year flamed out in the postseason, I think I’ll go with Moses.

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Kareem was no longer the undisputed best player in the world anymore, but almost everything I said about how refined his game was last season still applies. He also led the Lakers to 54 wins despite Magic only playing in 37 games.

3. Julius Erving

Doctor J’s stats this year are basically the same as last year, which in a field with not a lot of clear options, leaves him as the third best offensive player. Obviously he lost in the playoffs, but he still played well in them, and came close to beating the Celtics.

Defensive Player of the Year

1. Julius Erving

The Sixers remained one of the best defensive teams in the NBA, and Doctor J once again placed high in both block and steals, while improving his rebounding numbers slightly.

2. Robert Parish

Not far behind the Sixers though, were the Celtics, and Parish joining the team was almost inarguably what pushed them over the top this year. The Chief could average around 10 rebounds a game in his sleep, and his shot blocking, and to a lesser extent, steal numbers were at their height this year.

3. Mychal Thompson

As good as the Celtics and Sixers were, Phoenix had the best defensive team in the NBA this season. However, that accomplishment appears to have been mostly a collective effort, as only Dennis Johnson got much recognition for his defense during his career. Therefore, I went with Thompson, as the Blazers had one of the most well rounded defenses this year, and Thompson was their best rebounder and shot blocker, and he played well in the playoffs (albeit in three games).

Player of the Year

1. Julius Erving

Being the best defender and third best offensive player kind of means Doctor J wins this by default. No one else had quite the two-way impact he did.

2. Robert Parish

I didn’t mention Parish’s offense earlier, but it also played a huge part in the Celtics championship run. Parish only averaged two less points than Larry Bird on the team, and unlike Bird, he was very efficient, while Bird was surprisingly below average this season. His playmaking wasn’t great, but it was arguably at its best this year.

3. Moses Malone

Moses certainly had quite a year, though I still question his impact outside of the playoffs considering Houston’s record. Still, his stats were among the best in the league, and clearly he was doing something right when the Rockets needed him the most.

4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Kareem’s decline is noticeable, but he was still absurdly efficient while leading the Lakers to a great record, and did so without Magic’s help for most of the season.

5. Marques Johnson

Just like last year, Marques was good at a little bit of everything, but he improved his assist numbers a lot for a 60 win Bucks team.

I haven't seen alot of pushback on this rather odd Parish take yet. If Parish was better than Bird why could Bird take them to 61 wins the year before without him, and why wasn't Parish carrying his previous team to contention? Just a weird take.

[IlikeSHAIguys]

1 - Moses Malone
2 - Kareem
3 - Marques Johnson
4 - Julius Erving
5 - Larry Bird

I think Malone played the best in the playoffs and outplayed the guy alot of you are calling the best player in the league to do it. I also think taking 2 wins from the champions is the cherry on the top though I guess neither Bird or Malone played great.

If Kareem's the best player I feel like a game or 2 losing to a team that could have won everything shouldn't change stuff too much. Moses was better and definitely had the more impressive season but I'm not going to go too hard on a couple games.

I don't know if Marques really was 3rd best but I don't like everyone putting him below Erving including people who think Marques played better. Erving wins an MVP and it doesn't seem like him or Bird played well vs each other. From reading what you guys are saying Bird had a really good team and his scoring looks really bad. I was also sent the Bird assist thing and I see what they're saying. He still was probably the best player on a team that won so its weird to exclude him completely but your team getting it done while you play eh doesn't really move me. Like do the people voting for him feel he played better than Moses or Erving or is it just because he won?

Offensive Player of the Year
1 - Kareem
2 - Julius Erving
3 - Bird

Gonna skip defensive player of the year because I just don't know.

[penbeast0]

...(POY)

2. Robert Parish

I didn’t mention Parish’s offense earlier, but it also played a huge part in the Celtics championship run. Parish only averaged two less points than Larry Bird on the team, and unlike Bird, he was very efficient, while Bird was surprisingly below average this season. His playmaking wasn’t great, but it was arguably at its best this year....

I haven't seen alot of pushback on this rather odd Parish take yet. If Parish was better than Bird why could Bird take them to 61 wins the year before without him, and why wasn't Parish carrying his previous team to contention? Just a weird take.

Parish is an unsung choice but not a terrible one. He received at least one MVP ballot that year (7th in league in MVP votes).
(a)The Celtics' main MVP candidate for the previous decade is the man Parish replaced, Dave Cowens, so he's filling big shoes.
(b)Parish was still improving in his 5th year in the league and John Lucas's drug addiction really had messed with the chemistry in Golden State.

[Djoker]

Parish was a consideration for me to make the ballot but ultimately he missed out. He would definitely be in my top 10 for this year though. Ultimately not a bad choice to make the ballot at all. I don't agree he's better than Bird though but hey if you're very high on his defense (I'm just moderately high on it) then I can see it.

[70sFan]

Parish was a consideration for me to make the ballot but ultimately he missed out. He would definitely be in my top 10 for this year though. Ultimately not a bad choice to make the ballot at all. I don't agree he's better than Bird though but hey if you're very high on his defense (I'm just moderately high on it) then I can see it.

The problem with Parish is that he always lacked minutes played on the court due to him being a constant foul machine. He averaged only 28-29 mpg for both RS and PS because he couldn't stay on the court for longer (massive foul rate at around 5 fouls per 36 minutes).

I am quite high on his defense (though I wouldn't call him top 15 defender ever level, he was definitely a tier lower) but fouls also limit his defensive impact as well. Take a look at two series in which he faced an all-nba level big in 1981:

1981 ECSF: 28.8 mpg, 5.3 fouls per36
1981 Finals: 27.8 mpg, 5.8 fouls per36

I mean, Moses fouled him out in game 2 in just 14 minutes, costing the Celtics a game.

I think Parish is a legit contender for top 10 players in the league during the 1981-83 span per minute, but lack of minutes hurts his case a lot - especially when we have someone like Gilmore having a remarkable season on his own for example.