Retro Player of the Year Project 1983-84 UPDATE — Larry Bird

[trelos6]

OPOY

1.Magic Johnson. It was a close one this year. Isiah put up a good fight, but ultimately, Magic was the best passer in the league. He scored efficiently with 16.4 pp75 on +8.5 rTS%. Lakers were a good offense in the regular season, at +3.1 rOrtg, and in the post season, they were the best offense of teams that played more than one series.

2.Isiah Thomas. Isiah was the best playmaker in the league. A great passer, he led the Pistons to the best offense in the regular season (+3.7 rOrtg). He scored good volume, 20.2 pp75, though was a tad inefficient -2.3 rTS%.

3.Larry Bird. Celtics were a top 5 offense and 2nd in the post season for teams playing more than one series. He scored 22.7 pp75 on +0.9 rTS%, and the team was a +3.1 rOrtg. His efficiency rose by 5% in the playoffs, and I think he was a better passer this year than in ‘83.

DPOY

1.Sidney Moncrief. In what’s a tough year for DPOY, I’m going Moncrief. Eaton only played 26 min, and Utah was only midpack in DRtg. Bobby Jones was great, but only 24 mpg. Michael Cooper was also good, but he largely came off the bench. Tree Rollins was ok, but Atlanta were also only 7th on D.

2.Tree Rollins. Great rim protection. Played 30 mpg. Hawks were top 7 in DRtg.

3.Bobby Jones. Jones gets 3rd despite only playing 24 mpg.

POY

1.Larry Bird. +3.76 OPIPM, +1.74 DPIPM, +5.5 PIPM, 20.3 Wins Added. Improved playmaking, efficiency rose with some more competent pieces next to him.

2.Magic Johnson. +3.45 OPIPM, +1.17 DPIPM, +4.62 PIPM. 15.37 Wins Added. He missed a few games, but was healthy in the playoffs. Best passer, decent enough as a scorer.

3.Sidney Moncrief. 20 pp75 on +4.8 rTS%. Bucks were league average offensively, but top 2 defensively. +2.76 OPIPM, +0.24 DPIPM, +2.99 PIPM. 13.12 Wins added.

4.Julius Erving, +2.2 OPIPM, +1.31 DPIPM. +3.51 PIPM. 11.22 Wins Added. Monster on both sides, scoring 23.3, +1.9.

5.Isiah Thomas. +3.42 OPIPM, +0.76 DPIPM, +4.18 PIPM. Wins Added 13.56

[kcktiny]

Eaton per minute is the best defender here

Agree.

but this year he plays few enough minutes that he is not necessarily the league’s most valuable defender

Eaton played 2139 minutes, was 2nd in DPOY voting that season. In 1976-77 and 1977-78 Bill Walton played 2264 and 1929 minutes yet was named to the all-defensive 1st team both seasons (no DPOY back then). And Bobby Jones was 4th and 3rd in DPOY voting this season and the year before and didn't even play 1800 minutes either season.

Also at that time Eaton's 351 blocked shots were the 2nd most ever by an NBA player in a season (Elmore Smith blocked 393 shots in 1973-74), but his per minute rate for blocking shots this season (and the previous one 1982-83) were by far the best in NBA history up to that season. Back then I remember all the comparisons of him to Chamberlain and Russell as the greatest shot blockers ever.

[B-Mitch 30]

Offensive Player of the Year

1. Larry Bird

This season was likely Bird’s crowning achievement, as he not only had great box score numbers and efficiency, leading the NBA in free throw percentage, but the Celtics had the league’s best record. In the playoffs and Finals, Bird raised his scoring and efficiency, and avenged his NCAA championship loss to Magic by beating him and the Lakers.

2. Magic Johnson

Magic continues to be the NBA's best passer, while assuming more of the scoring load from Kareem. The Lakers remained the best team in the West this year, and despite their Finals loss, Magic’s stats in it and the playoffs were excellent, arguably being better than Bird’s, as the Lakers took the Celtics to seven games.

3. Mychal Thompson

Mychal Thompson seems like a strange choice here, until you look at the Trail Blazers stats for this season. They were 4th in eFG, 11th in turnover percentage, 3rd in offensive rebounding percentage, and 4th in free throws per field goal attempt. Thompson averaged 15.7 points per game on great efficiency, and drew only 11 fewer fouls than the Blazers leading scorer Jim Paxson. He was also their 2nd best passer behind Fat Lever, who only started in 22 games, and best offensive rebounder. He also played well in the postseason, though the Blazers lost in the first round, likely because Thompson fractured his elbow after colliding with Calvin Natt.

Defensive Player of the Year

1. Bill Cartwright

The Knicks clearly had the best defense in the league, and Cartwright was their best rebounder, starting shot blocker, and averaged half a steal per game.

2. Larry Bird

After the Knicks, the Celtics were the second best defense in my opinion, despite what their defense rating might suggest. They were 2nd in eFG defense and defensive rebounding, while committing the fewest fouls per field goal attempt in the NBA. The Knicks were only better because they were 1st in turnover percentage. Bird led the Celtics in steals, was their 2nd best starting shot blocker, and about even with Robert Parish in defensive rebounding.

3. Mark Eaton

Eaton seems to me the main reason the Jazz finally made the playoffs with Adrian Dantley. The league’s best shot blocker greatly improved the team’s eFG defense, and clearly made up for his offensive limitations.

Player of the Year

1. Larry Bird

Bird is here for the reasons discussed above.

2. Magic Johnson

Magic continues to be the best playmaker in the NBA, more than making up for any defensive weaknesses he might have.

3. Mychal Thompson

Did I mention the Trail Blazers were also an above average defense this year? Or that Thompson was their leading shot blocker?

4. Bernard King

King was the perfect complement to Cartwright’s defense, averaging a hyper efficient 26.3 points per game, and managing to maintain that efficiency in the playoffs while leading it in scoring, as the Knicks nearly beat the Celtics in seven games.

5. Michael Cooper

Cooper seems like an odd choice until you put his stats in context. He was the only qualified three-point shooter who shot over 30% from behind the line and had an above average true shooting percentage. He was also arguably the Lakers best defender, which were a top 10 defense this season.

[Djoker]

I see some love for Bill Cartwright for DPOY. I never saw him as an elite defender. He was definitely solid but doesn't belong a with the likes of Buck Williams, Bobby Jones and Mark Eaton.

[AEnigma]

I see some love for Bill Cartwright for DPOY. I never saw him as an elite defender. He was definitely solid but doesn't belong a with the likes of Buck Williams, Bobby Jones and Mark Eaton.

So we will agree to disagree on the value Bobby Jones was providing while playing what is now less than half the game/season.

Mark Eaton was not relevant last year. I agree he was better this year and do not see a serious case for Cartwright over him.

Buck Williams is certainly a more standout defender relative to position, but last year was a relative disappointment in the postseason. Not necessarily his fault, but still reflects negatively on him — especially when the opposing defence fared substantially better with Cartwright as their anchor. And Buck had maybe the best defensive coach in the history of the sport, so I do not think he deserves overwhelming individual credit for that “#1 defence” anyway. This year, Brown is gone, and Buck is a major part of the Nets’ upset over the 76ers, so I acknowledge Buck’s case is more secure than it was previously.

On the subject of #1 defences, Cartwright too should not be a disproportionate beneficiary. As I touched on when discussing Isiah, the Knicks were the top defence because of their ability to force turnovers. While such an aggressive scheme requires capable back-line help, it does not require elite back-line help. Recall the recent Suns and Royals teams which managed top defences primarily via forcing turnovers. In the same scheme, I would generally take players like Sikma and Parish over Cartwright — to say nothing of elite rim protectors like Eaton or Tree.

Now, I believe in rewarding seasonal accomplishments, which is why I have ignored Sikma the past two seasons and ignored Parish last season. When I twice voted for DJ as the standout defender on a #1 defence, it was not because I thought he was the third most impactful defender in the league. In turn, I am fine with rewarding Cartwright as the nominal top defender for strong and relevant Knicks defences, and in fact did so last year.

We should be careful to not just blindly reward a player for being on a #1 team, and I do feel that is what is required to vote Cartwright #1 over every other alternative… but the Larry Bird at #2 vote is far more egregious (albeit in line with voting Erving #1 on a team with multiple mainstay all-defensive players), so seems odd to focus specifically on Cartwright.

[One_and_Done]

Offensive Player of the Year

1. Larry Bird

This season was likely Bird’s crowning achievement, as he not only had great box score numbers and efficiency, leading the NBA in free throw percentage, but the Celtics had the league’s best record. In the playoffs and Finals, Bird raised his scoring and efficiency, and avenged his NCAA championship loss to Magic by beating him and the Lakers.

2. Magic Johnson

Magic continues to be the NBA's best passer, while assuming more of the scoring load from Kareem. The Lakers remained the best team in the West this year, and despite their Finals loss, Magic’s stats in it and playoffs were excellent, arguably being better than Bird’s, as the Lakers took the Celtics to seven games.

3. Mychal Thompson

Mychal Thompson seems like a strange choice here, until you look at the Trail Blazers stats for this season. They were 4th in eFG, 11th in turnover percentage, 3rd in offensive rebounding percentage, and 4th in free throws per field goal attempt. Thompson averaged 15.7 points per game on great efficiency, and drew only 11 fewer fouls than the Blazers leading scorer Jim Paxson. He was also their 2nd best passer behind Fat Lever, who only started in 22 games, and best offensive rebounder. He also played well in the postseason, though the Blazers lost in the first round, likely because Thompson fractured his elbow after colliding with Calvin Natt.

Defensive Player of the Year

1. Bill Cartwright

The Knicks clearly had the best defense in the league, and Cartwright was their best rebounder, starting shot blocker, and averaged half a steal per game.

2. Larry Bird

After the Knicks, the Celtics were the second best defense in my opinion, despite what their defense rating might suggest. They were 2nd in eFG defense and defensive rebounding, while committing the fewest fouls per field goal attempt in the NBA. The Knicks were only better because they were 1st in turnover percentage. Bird led the Celtics in steals, was their 2nd best starting shot blocker, and about even with Robert Parish in defensive rebounding.

3. Mark Eaton

Eaton seems to me the main reason the Jazz finally made the playoffs with Adrian Dantley. The league’s best shot blocker greatly improved the team’s eFG defense, and clearly made up for his offensive limitations.

Player of the Year

1. Larry Bird

Bird is here for the reasons discussed above.

2. Magic Johnson

Magic continues to be the best playmaker in the NBA, more than making up for any defensive weaknesses he might have.

3. Mychal Thompson

Did I mention the Trail Blazers were also an above average defense this year? Or that Thompson was their leading shot blocker?

4. Bernard King

King was the perfect complement to Cartwright’s defense, averaging a hyper efficient 26.3 points per game, and managing to maintain that efficiency in the playoffs while leading it in scoring, as the Knicks nearly beat the Celtics in seven games.

5. Michael Cooper

Cooper seems like an odd choice until you put his stats in context. He was the only qualified three-point shooter who shot over 30% from behind the line and had an above average true shooting percentage. He was also arguably the Lakers best defender, which were a top 10 defense this season.

So Magic had the 5th best player in the NBA and Kareem, Worthy, etc, and still couldn't beat Bird? How is Magic #2 then?

Cooper at 5 seems pretty hard to justify. Thompson in the top 5 is wild too; I guess we shouldn't give Magic too much credit in 87 when he won; after all, he had another top 5 type talent in Thompson as well as Cooper.

[Narigo]

1. Larry Bird- Had a season similar to his 1983 campaign but was better in the playoffs this year compared to last year.

2. Magic Johnson- A bit of down year imo. Choke in a few games in the finals. But despite that, still a clear number 2

3..Bernard King- His postseason was pretty good. Have Celtics a challenge

4. Sidney Moncrief

5. Isiah Thomas- Decided to give Isiah the edge over Dantley

[B-Mitch 30]

I see some love for Bill Cartwright for DPOY. I never saw him as an elite defender. He was definitely solid but doesn't belong a with the likes of Buck Williams, Bobby Jones and Mark Eaton.

So we will agree to disagree on the value Bobby Jones was providing while playing what is now less than half the game/season.

Mark Eaton was not relevant last year. I agree he was better this year and do not see a serious case for Cartwright over him.

Buck Williams is certainly a more standout defender relative to position, but last year was a relative disappointment in the postseason. Not necessarily his fault, but still reflects negatively on him — especially when the opposing defence fared substantially better with Cartwright as their anchor. And Buck had maybe the best defensive coach in the history of the sport, so I do not think he deserves overwhelming individual credit for that “#1 defence” anyway. This year, Brown is gone, and Buck is a major part of the Nets’ upset over the 76ers, so I acknowledge Buck’s case is more secure than it was previously.

On the subject of #1 defences, Cartwright too should not be a disproportionate beneficiary. As I touched on when discussing Isiah, the Knicks were the top defence because of their ability to force turnovers. While such an aggressive scheme requires capable back-line help, it does not require elite back-line help. Recall the recent Suns and Royals teams which managed top defences primarily via forcing turnovers. In the same scheme, I would generally take players like Sikma and Parish over Cartwright — to say nothing of elite rim protectors like Eaton or Tree.

Now, I believe in rewarding seasonal accomplishments, which is why I have ignored Sikma the past two seasons and ignored Parish last season. When I twice voted for DJ as the standout defender on a #1 defence, it was not because I thought he was the third most impactful defender in the league. In turn, I am fine with rewarding Cartwright as the nominal top defender for strong and relevant Knicks defences, and in fact did so last year.

We should be careful to not just blindly reward a player for being on a #1 team, and I do feel that is what is required to vote Cartwright #1 over every other alternative… but the Larry Bird at #2 vote is far more egregious (albeit in line with voting Erving #1 on a team with multiple mainstay all-defensive players), so seems odd to focus specifically on Cartwright.

I understand feeling that the Knicks defensive success was mostly a team thing (to some degree this is always true) but I think the fact their defense collapsed in 1984-1985, when Cartwright missed the whole season with a broken foot, provides a little evidence that they were very reliant on him.

[AEnigma]

I agree. Not to the point of thinking he merits a #1 DPoY vote, but yes, he was the most important defender on what that year was a #1 defence.

[penbeast0]

I understand feeling that the Knicks defensive success was mostly a team thing (to some degree this always true) but I think the fact their defense collapsed in 1984-1985, when Cartwright missed the whole season with a broken foot, provides a little evidence that they were very reliant on him.

As I pointed out elsewhere recently, it wasn't just Cartwright that disappeared between 83-84 and 84-85, they also lost Marvin Webster (one of the league's absolute best shot blockers) and PF Truck Robinson thus losing all 3 of their main bigs, replacing the 3 with the likes of Pat Cummings, Ken Bannister, and James Bailey who were at best NBA journeymen. That said, Cartwright didn't have a great defensive rep with the Knicks, maybe because he was splitting time with Marvin Webster who did, but he developed one when he went to Chicago for Oakley and led Chicago to some very good defensive performances too indicating that people may have been sleeping on his defense in New York.

[OhayoKD]

I love how Bird goes from 5th to 1st in most people's ballots, where he basically was the same player. l.

This is a good point in favor of him not being first this year. No one was willing to seriously defend him as top 2 last year, including you, yet now he's first on the back of a bunch of teammate improvements you note after a series where his main competition for 1 averages 3 times as many assists, shoots more effeciently, while also being an era standout in terms of assist-quality for this era by every approach attempted(hakeem thus far is also up there on much lower volume by all the vettable hand-tracking that's been done) while Bird thus far falls in the polar opposite end of the spectrum.

Despite this, you, while calling out winning bias, are going to vote him 1st because

A. He won
B. On the basis of nothing, you think his style of play is more conductive to winning than the style of play of the guy with the highest winning percentage ever.


If you really don't care Bird won as opposed to being bulldozed by someone he's allegedly much better than in 1983, then you shouldn't be voting him 1st in the first place.

[trelos6]

Despite this, you, while calling out winning bias, are going to vote him 1st because

A. He won

To clarify, winning bias was in reference to title or bust.

A player who can constantly win 50+ games per season, and even 60+ win seasons is demonstrating value. Playoff sample sizes are small, and can often be matchup dependent. A player having a shooting hot streak for 4-7 games could knock off the better team. There should be some consideration of course, but I generally favour a larger sample size. the 82 vs 16 debate is a tricky one.

[OhayoKD]

Despite this, you, while calling out winning bias, are going to vote him 1st because

A. He won

To clarify, winning bias was in reference to title or bust.

A player who can constantly win 50+ games per season, and even 60+ win seasons is demonstrating value. Playoff sample sizes are small, and can often be matchup dependent. A player having a shooting hot streak for 4-7 games could knock off the better team. There should be some consideration of course, but I generally favour a larger sample size. the 82 vs 16 debate is a tricky one.

Or, maybe instead of defaulting to how much they won (also a weird angle given the competition is literally the #1 among MVPs in rs win percentage), you could look at how they actually played. 83(or any Bird really) is not a all-time creator in terms of volume or quality, he reports a back condition from 83 that has him commiting more breakdowns than positive plays defensively by 1986, and he scores at low volume for an offensive star on not elite effeciency. If you can't explain in actual basketball you think makes Bird a top 1 player in 1983, then I don't know why you're arguing we were too low on 1983 Bird as opposed to you just being way too high on 84-86 Bird

[One_and_Done]

1. Bird
Clearly the most impactful player, just like he would have been last year if not for a bad playoffs.

2. Magic
Like Bird, he's just a cut above the rest of the candidates.

3. Moncrief
Spots 3-5 are brutal, but I'll take Moncrief who was the undisputed best Buck by this point. His 2 way play was vital, and he'd stepped up alot despite Marques drug problems and seeming drop off.

4. B.King
5. Dantley

Kareem had fallen off a fair bit by this point. I wanted to list him, bit I just couldn't. King and Dantley led successful playoff teams with minimal help. While their scoring wouldn't translate as well today, it was effective for this era.

I don't care for I.Thomas, who is one of the more overrated players of all-time, so he's out. I considered Agguire, but I don't think he was as good as King or Dantley.

[70sFan]

Both King and Dantley missed 27 games in 1985, but while Utah chugged along unabated, the Knicks became the clear worst team in the league. Dantley was never anywhere near as impactful as his efficiency might suggest; how you get your points matters too.

New York dropped like a paralyzed pigeon based on going from the best defensive team in the league to 19th/23. If you ever saw King, you would probably realize he had very little to do with their success in that area.

They lost starting center Bill Cartwright (who went on to help MJ win titles), reserve center Marvin "the Human Eraser" Webster, and starting PF Truck Robinson for some combination of career journeymen Pat Cummings, Ken "the Animal" Bannister, James Bailey, and SF Louis Orr trying to play up. That's a massive defensive downgrade and more than explains the Knicks falling completely off the table.

All of that already happened in 1985.

Remember that they were a less efficient offense than Utah in 84 (hard to blame that on King though admittedly he didn't pass much for someone with the ball in his hands that much) but while both teams dropped with their star scorer out, Utah's offense dropped off worse. Utah did drop 8 games from 49 wins to 41 which seems a reasonable response to losing your best player for a third of the season. And they dropped that badly despite drastically improving their defense to best in the league as their offense tanked from top 10 to bottom 3. Interestingly, Utah's personnel changed very little except for rookie reserve PG John Stockton who is unlikely to be a key ingredient in less than 20 mpg so hard to explain the defensive performance.

1985 Jazz ppg with Dantley: 110
1985 Jazz ppg without Dantley: 106.9 (-3.1)

1985 Knicks ppg with King: 109.2
1985 Knicks ppg without King: 97.1 (-12.1)

The Jazz went 13-14 without Dantley; the Knicks went 5-22 without King.

To be more precise:

1984/85 Jazz with Dantley: 28-27 (42 wins pace), +1.4 Net Rtg (45 wins pace), 105.0 ORtg, 103.7 DRtg
1984/85 Jazz without Dantley: 13-14 (39 wins pace), -3.0 Net Rtg (32 wins pace), 100.7 ORtg, 103.7 DRtg

1984/85 Knicks with King: 19-36 (28 wins pace), -2.4 Net Rtg (34 wins pace), 107.5 ORtg, 110.0 DRtg
1984/85 Knicks without King: 5-22 (15 wins pace), -9.4 Net Rtg (17 wins pace), 101.0 ORtg, 110.5 DRtg

I don't think their team situation is comparable at all in 1985. King's supporting cast was absolutely horrible and he couldn't do anything with that. He provided a solid offensive lift (+6.5 ORtg) with no influence on defense, but that wasn't enough to make the team relevant.

Jazz outperformed their Net Rtg without Dantley, but they weren't good without him. He turned a non-playoff team into a slightly above average one with slightly worse offensive lift (+4.3 ORtg) but his team was competent on defense, unlike the Knicks.

Taking all into account, I don't think we can conclude anything meaningful from these numbers. I consider King and Dantley the same tier players, at their peaks they were solid all-nba players limited by their one dimensional game (both weren't much of creators and mediocre defenders).

[ShaqAttac]

KING
took bos superteam to 7 and crazy impact in reg szn too.

MAGIC
tbh its an l not winning with kareem but peeps making magic args doing a lot better than ppl making bird args right now. Put up big numbers and got most impact. Cant put him 1 tho when King does the same thing while having to carry. Best O.

BIRD

champ and mvp. maybe his stats are a little fake but he won.

IISIAH
21 points and 14 assists, take champs to 6 and sweepts the Jets. Gonna lead Det to chips pretty soon.

SIDNEY
wins another DPOY and puts up 20 and the most assists to carry bucks to the ECF. MJ scores more vs BOS but his TS is alot lower.

[Djoker]

Disregarding the fact that Kings peak was cut short by injuries and that this fact ruins his career value...

I think King was a better player than Dantley. AD always fell off the cliff in the postseason whereas King dominated including against very strong teams like the Celtics. Dantley was a bit of a regular season warrior. I've also never heard anyone question King's intangibles whereas teams wanting him out and then getting better sort of defined Dantley.

[AEnigma]

^ Provided we are solely referring to King’s on-court “intangibles”, with absolutely no reference to anything off-court, sure.

[70sFan]

Disregarding the fact that Kings peak was cut short by injuries and that this fact ruins his career value...

I think King was a better player than Dantley. AD always fell off the cliff in the postseason whereas King dominated including against very strong teams like the Celtics. Dantley was a bit of a regular season warrior. I've also never heard anyone question King's intangibles whereas teams wanting him out and then getting better sort of defined Dantley.

That's not how I would describe King and Dantley in the playoffs. First of all, neither player has much of a playoff sample in his prime, due to playing on weak teams and not advancing far. If we do take a look at their performances though, I don't find King to be a notable playoff dominator:

1979 RS: 21.6 ppg, 3.6 apg, 3.9 tov on 54.2 TS%
1979 vs Sixers (2 games): 26.0 ppg, 3.5 apg, 3.0 tov on 49.5 TS%

1983 RS: 21.9 ppg, 2.9 apg, 2.9 tov on 56.6 TS%
1983 vs Nets (2 games): 29.0 ppg, 3.5 apg, 1.0 tov on 65.7 TS%
1983 vs Sixers (4 games): 20.8 ppg, 1.5 apg, 2.0 tov on 60.8 TS%

1984 RS: 26.3 ppg, 2.1 apg, 2.6 tov on 61.9 TS%
1983 vs Pistons (5 games): 42.6 ppg, 2.6 apg, 2.8 tov on 64.4 TS%
1983 vs Sixers (7 games): 29.1 ppg, 3.3 apg, 2.7 tov on 59.7 TS%

1988 RS: 17.2 ppg, 2.8 apg, 3.1 tov on 55.0 TS%
1988 vs Pistons (5 games): 13.8 ppg, 1.8 apg, 2.8 tov on 55.4 TS%

He had this monstrous series against Pistons (a mediocre defensive team but still very impressive), a quite impressive series against Boston and... that's it basically. Unless you want to include 2 games series against the Nets, nothing from this resume screams a dominant postseason performer. He underperformed in 1979, was good but nothing special against the Sixers in 1983 and was washed after 1985 injury. I think two series is not enough to call someone a dominant postseason performer.

I also don't agree that Dantley was consistently worse in the playoffs:

1978 RS (LAL only): 19.4 ppg, 3.4 apg, 2.9 tov on 58.9 TS%
1978 vs Sonics (3 games): 17.0 ppg, 3.7 apg, 2.0 tov on 60.0 TS%

1979 RS: 17.3 ppg, 2.3 apg, 2.6 tov on 59.9 TS%
1979 vs Nuggets (3 games): 26.3 ppg, 1.3 apg, 2.0 tov on 71.9 TS%
1979 vs Sonics (5 games): 15.0 ppg, 1.3 apg, 2.6 tov on 56.9 TS%

1984 RS: 30.6 ppg, 3.4 apg, 3.1 tov on 65.2 TS%
1984 vs Nuggets (5 games): 31.0 ppg, 5.4 apg, 3.6 tov on 62.5 TS%
1984 vs Suns (6 games): 33.2 ppg, 3.2 apg, 3.3 tov on 60.1 TS%

1985 RS: 26.6 ppg, 3.9 apg, 3.3 tov on 60.7 TS%
1985 vs Rockets (5 games): 24.6 ppg, 1.6 apg, 3.2 tov on 58.2 TS%
1985 vs Nuggets (5 games): 26.0 ppg, 2.4 apg, 4.0 tov on 65.6 TS%

1987 RS: 21.5 ppg, 2.0 apg, 2.2 tov on 61.4 TS%
1987 vs Bullets (5 games): 21.3 ppg, 1.7 apg, 2.0 tov on 67.4 TS%
1987 vs Hawks (5 games): 15.8 ppg, 2.4 apg, 2.2 tov on 51.3 TS%
1987 vs Celtics (7 games): 23.6 ppg, 2.6 apg, 2.3 tov on 63.3 TS%

1988 RS: 20.0 ppg, 2.5 apg, 2.0 tov on 61.9 TS%
1988 vs Bullets (5 games): 20.4 ppg, 1.6 apg, 2.2 tov on 59.2 TS%
1988 vs Bulls (5 games): 18.6 ppg, 2.0 apg, 2.2 tov on 58.9 TS%
1988 vs Celtics (6 games): 17.0 ppg, 2.0 apg, 1.8 tov on 53.7 TS%
1988 vs Lakers (7 games): 21.3 ppg, 2.3 apg, 2.6 tov on 67.6 TS%

Out of 14 series Dantley played, I think we can say that he underperformed against 1979 Sonics, 1985 Rockets (but they still won), 1987 Hawks (easy win) and 1988 Celtics (they won again). He played fantastic against the two best teams he ever faced - 1987 Celtics and 1988 Lakers - all when he was past his best years.

Was Dantley an amazing postseason performer? No, that's not my point. Was he solid? Definitely, I don't see him being labelled a "RS warrior". Dantley was a key piece for two contending teams and he was arguably the Pistons MVP in the most important series of the season, which is something you can't say about King as he never really played on a contending team.

[Lebronnygoat]

Kareem outplayed Bird in the 1984 Finals, and the conference finals. He also had the better regular season, idk how else you look at it.

In the Finals he was a better creator, scorer in 4 out of 7 games, and clearly a better defender.

Conference Finals he was a way better scorer, better creator, and clearly better defender.

Logic applies to the regular season too (scoring is closer, though). So Bird can’t be the best.