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Harry10 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
that is a big slap in the face to Jose Calderon. but i also agree with you implication,.... Bargnani does look like a bust, no help at all.
jeremy1215 wrote:West. I don't like how skinny Bosh is and imo he is over rated. I like West because he can play anywhere on offense and be effective. Threes, post shots, mid range, and he can pass too.
Pats19andO wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
bosh doesnt have cp3
UDRIH14 wrote:bosh is the better player
but west is no slouch either
too bad bosh plays from a scrub team whose record so far is not better than NOH
tsherkin wrote:jeremy1215 wrote:West. I don't like how skinny Bosh is and imo he is over rated. I like West because he can play anywhere on offense and be effective. Threes, post shots, mid range, and he can pass too.
Bosh and West...
Well, West has been (as mentioned) healthy and Bosh has not. West has another 20 ppg scorer on his team and Bosh does not. West has Chandler with him in the frontcourt, Bosh does not.
The Raptors have lots and lots of shooters, very good shooters. And three guys on the team that can create shots for themselves (Bosh, Calderon and Ford, who's presently out). Bosh started the season with some nagging injuries that continue to plague him.
Also, things to point out: Bosh is playing fewer minutes than West:
Bosh (RbR, RB40): 15.4, 10.72
West (RbR, RB40): 14.7, 10.35
Showing that Bosh is "only" outrebounding West by 0.3 rpg is kind of pointless, since he's playing 2.5 fewer minutes per game. The gap in rebounding is marginal but Bosh is also playing below his usual average on account of injury. Bosh had an RbR of 16.4 last year, higher than anything West has posted since his rookie year (playing about 13 mpg).
Bosh is a better rebounder than West, in general; they're roughly equivalent on the defensive glass but Bosh is significantly ahead as an offensive rebounder, even in his off-year.
As a scorer, this isn't even close. West is below league average in efficiency at 51.8%; league average is closer to 53%. Bosh is struggling from the floor (shooting 4.7% below his career average) and he's STILL above league average.
Because West gets to the line about 3.8 times a game (.228 FTA/FGA) and Bosh gets to the line about 8.1 times a game (.535 FTA/FGA).
He's considerably more effective at getting to the line. Both of them like long jumpers; Bosh actually takes about 37% of his shots from between 15 and 23 feet, usually from about 17 feet on the left wing, or the top of the circle. West likes those same spots but he also likes the right wing.
This season, West is shooting marginally better on his jumpers, an eFG% on Js of 40.4% to Bosh's 39.7%. However, Bosh has shot 41.0, 44.0 and 40.5 percent the last three years (e.g. starting from his second season when he scored 16.8 ppg), so it's functionally clear that he's having an off-season because he's struggling with his J... which is hardly a surprise, given that the injury he was working through is leg-related.
Bosh is a little bit less turnover-prone but neither of these guys turns the ball over a lot... but that said, Bosh gets the ball more often than West, so for him to not only be equivalent but beneath West in turnover rate actually speaks more highly of Bosh than it does of West; he rarely turns the ball over, which is impressive for a guy who has the third-highest usage rate among PFs this year (caveat, must be playing 6.09+ mpg to qualify for the list).
Passing-wise? They have comparable assist rates but there's a big gap in assists per bad pass. Bosh is at 5.7 and West is at 4.4. There's a marginal difference in passing rating (3.4 to 3.1, favoring Bosh) and a 0.2 favoring of Bosh in AST48 but a lot of that gap can probably be explained by the system; Bosh plays in a very well-structured offense (even this year, with Toronto playing weird on O and without Ford), with shooters everywhere and he's a pretty good player as far as not throwing the ball away. If you peek, he's throwing bad passes on only about 18% of his turnovers compared to West's 23.1%.
It's functionally clear at this point that Bosh is the better player.
He's having a bad year because his J isn't falling, he's had some injury issues, some team-related issues (injuries, regression of play from some players, etc) and he's come DOWN to a level that's still a little bit better than West.
He's a comparable shooter NOW, he's a slightly better rebounder and passer who doesn't turn the ball over as often and he's significantly more efficient because he gets to the line more.
There really isn't anything you can argue in West's favor. Bosh is scoring about a third of what West does in a game at the line each game, to give you an idea of how significant the free throw shooting is. Bosh is going for an average of 6.96/8.1 from the line each game. He's scored 188 points from the free throw line this year.
That means he's scoring about 37% of West's per-game average at the line each game and has scored 32% of West's season total from the line alone.
He's a better scorer, period. Even with his jumper failing him and having some trouble converting in the lane, which is depressing his FG% and his TS% (which is 56% on his career, incidentally, compared to West's career-high of 53.3% from last year), Bosh is still a better scorer.
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So yeah, end argument?
West approaches Bosh in a bad year; he's a good player but he's just not better than Bosh at anything and lags behind noticeably in a couple of key areas. There is no legitimate argument to be made for West > Bosh.
New Orleans gets a lot of respect for tabbing him at the 18th pick and for getting him involved and everything and this makes the third consecutive year that he's been a 17+ ppg scorer (and his third straight increase in ppg) but he really doesn't touch Bosh as a scorer. Nice player, great find, not as good as Chris.
