Does a ring this year really add to Shaq's legacy?

[ponder276]

If he steps up big in the playoffs, then sure, it'll add to it. His legacy will still mostly be about his days in LA and Orlando, but it would be a nice little feather in his cap. If he just plays limited minutes and coasts to a ring as a role player, then it doesn't add much.

[ronnymac2]

Before I answer the OP, I need to respond to Shaq and his role with the Cavs this year. He wasn't brought in to help them add to their 66 wins (BTW, that win total overrates that team imo). It should have been obvious to everybody that with the Shaq acquisition, the Cavs would struggle more times during the season than during last season. With 37 year old Shaq, they aren't as prepared to win games in the regular season. IMHO, I thought the Cavs would win 55 games this year. Looks like they'll win 60 or so (speaks to how great James is). But they'll be much better equipped for the playoffs against the actual teams that will be there with them in the end.

Shaq makes that team better, for reasons mentioned by others already. Looking at stats RIGHT NOW like SRS and offensive rating and everything.....none of that is showing Shaq's real effects on the team or where his value will be. Honestly, who cares about the 45 games played so far. For the elite teams, it doesn't mean a damn thing anyway. All of the elite teams just want to start rolling in the second half and want to get healthy. If the Cavs win the title and Shaq contributes in the playoffs, nobody will care if the Cavs offense was worse through 45 games in 2010 as opposed to 2009.


Shaq's legacy will be moderately affected by it. Nothing major. On my personal all-time list, I doubt he'd really move up even one place, and he likely wouldn't even prevent others from passing him (though on my list, Shaq is more alongside or among other players as opposed to between players in spots). As a Shaq fan, I think it'd be cool to see Shaq go the Jabbar circa 88 route where he helps a team lead by the best player in the league (the unselfish, ultra-versatile, best player in the league who's the size of a power foward with the skills of a guard) to a title. Jabbar was more of a mainstay figure with LA, whereas Shaq is a mercenary/gun-for-hire (though I think Shaq actually likes playing the role of elder on the Cavs right now).

Of course, I'm not actively rooting for the Cavs. If the Lakers, Heat, Knicks, and Nets aren't playing anymore, I'll actively root for the Cavs. That's it.

[jaypo]

Well, Ronnymac2, I think the Nets are out of it, as well as the Knicks. The Heat and Cavs would be an awesome matchup in the playoffs- imagine a determined DWade and Lebron going toe to toe like Ali and Frazier!

I think that another ring with the Cavs if he contributes substantially would keep others from passing him. Many put Akeem or Duncan ahead of him (unrightfully so, IMO), and another ring would easily separate him from those guys. And unless Duncan would get 2 more, he'd be safe from being passed by those guys. Plus, he would probably get a ring this year by going thru Kobe, which would keep Kobe from ever passing him unless Kobe was able to win the next 3 titles, because he's starting to feel his age this season.

[Baller 24]

It shouldn't mean much to his legacy, but like many have stated, it will.

[Chosen01]

It all depends on how well he plays in the playoffs/finals.

[semi-sentient]

I think it adds to his legacy.

Does anyone here seriously believe that the Cavs would be able to take down the Lakers without Shaq?

He has proven his worth already and if they win the title he will be a large part of the reason. Bynum can't stay out of foul trouble against the guy and Gasol wants no part of him, so if that same story plays out in the Finals then he deserves more than just "role player" credit.

Of course this is all assuming that they meet/beat the Lakers in the Finals, which is a reasonable assumption.

As far as Orlando goes, they've clearly shot themselves in the foot by getting rid of Hedo, so I don't think Shaq will be the reason for them getting over that hump.

[tsherkin]

1. My bringing up about the free throws after you pointed out the error was as much to point how I could have made the mistake.

Yeah, I was just trying to make sure I wasn't being a dick about it.

2. Howard's regression this year isn't just about changing player, though it doesn't help that Carter isn't playing nearly as well as expected. He's turning the ball over much more this year than last. FWIW I don't think his passing, which is never a strength, is as good as last year.

I'm inclined to disagree on the topic of his passing; I think he's uncomfortable playing next to Vince. He obviously doesn't have the same synergy he did with Hedo, and he's obviously a bit miffed that he's shooting about as much as he did as a rookie. They're struggling to re-integrate a new player AND bringing back Nelson for a full season instead of Rafer (who played the half-season that Nelson didn't last year).

If the Magic were to go to him a little more, I think we'd see him bounce back. 3 shots per game is a lot, that's a quarter of his total shooting volume from last season. The fact that he's still scoring over 17 ppg is fantastic, IMO. I don't consider it a regression. Bear in mind he's shooting only 0.5 fewer FTA/g and shooting the best FT% since his rookie campaign. Anyway, you're talking about passing, and yeah his turnover rate is way up.

Passing turnovers are 18.5% of his turnovers so far this year, so they're up 5.25% from last season. His passing rating is down from 1.5 to 1.2, his 82games.com 'Hands' rating down from 5.6 to 4.1.

It doesn't really LOOK like he's doing anything worse when I watch him, but the stats do bear out your argument, so maybe I'll look a little closer.

3. The Suns are skidding right now, but IMO this could just be a bad stretch.

It could be. But it's also true that they've been consistently terrible on defense all year, it's not something new. And it's also true that a 35 year-old Nash is playing out of his mind and hasn't missed a game yet in order to get them to a slightly above-.500 record. That team is one injury away from the lottery, if said injury is to Nash, Stoudemire, Jason Richardson, Grant Hill OR Channing Frye. They have no margin for error because they have comparatively little depth and they rely entirely on offensive firepower in order to win.

4. Your point about title solidifying Shaq's legacy makes sense to me in that I understand the argument but I don't agree with it.

Fair enough.

The question is entirely subjective anyway, I was just trying to elucidate what I thought about it and show what I meant rather than implying that I felt he could move UP the ladder.

[JordansBulls]

I think it adds to his legacy.

Does anyone here seriously believe that the Cavs would be able to take down the Lakers without Shaq?

He has proven his worth already and if they win the title he will be a large part of the reason. Bynum can't stay out of foul trouble against the guy and Gasol wants no part of him, so if that same story plays out in the Finals then he deserves more than just "role player" credit.

Of course this is all assuming that they meet/beat the Lakers in the Finals, which is a reasonable assumption.

As far as Orlando goes, they've clearly shot themselves in the foot by getting rid of Hedo, so I don't think Shaq will be the reason for them getting over that hump.

Have you seen Hedo play this year?

[tsherkin]

Have you seen Hedo play this year?

True, but remember that he doesn't have a thunderingly dangerous low-post force and the same kind of floor spacing and dribble-penetrators around him that he did in Orlando.

[RoyceDa59]

I believe the Cavs with Shaq are more equiped this season to take on the likes of Orlando, LA, Boston and San Antonio in a playoff series. In the regular season they will not cruise to 66 wins like last year, but just from knowing what I know about Shaq and watching the Cavs swagger this season, I think they are in a better position to win a title this season than they were last season. Shaq gives them a legitimate low post threat and a man big enough and strong enough to match up to Dwight, Garnett, Duncan and Pau/Bynum defensively. Shaq also brings them a truck load of playoff and championship experience and I believe right now he is cruising in 3rd gear, saving himself for the playoffs. I also expect his minutes to increase from about 23 MPG to about 28 MPG in the playoffs.

Right now, the Cavs are looking like the team to beat, and I think Shaq is a significant reason why.

[semi-sentient]

Have you seen Hedo play this year?

True, but remember that he doesn't have a thunderingly dangerous low-post force and the same kind of floor spacing and dribble-penetrators around him that he did in Orlando.

This, and the Magic seemed to have much better all around chemistry with Hedo instead of Vince.

[Speedlot]

So many wall of texts. The only thing Cavs need to worry about is that they're 2-0 Against the lakers, where as they were 0-2 against them last year. THAT alone makes Shaq's addition HUGE.

Records don't matter that much. Cavs is 2-0 against Lakers, 1-0 vs orlando, 2-0 vs atlanta, and 0-1 against celtics.

Last year, their record was better but they did significantly worst against CONTENDERS/elite team.

They may not be able to dominate the scrub teams as much as before but that doesn't matter ( see Mavs ) as long as they have a fighting chance against elite teams. The steamrolling they got from Orlando should teach you a lesson. 8-0 in the first two series only to get manhandled by the Magics.

[tsherkin]

Wait til Vince rediscovers his shot, though, and we're going to see some fun in the sun in Orlando.

[JordansBulls]

Have you seen Hedo play this year?

True, but remember that he doesn't have a thunderingly dangerous low-post force and the same kind of floor spacing and dribble-penetrators around him that he did in Orlando.

This, and the Magic seemed to have much better all around chemistry with Hedo instead of Vince.

Orlando is just waiting for the playoffs this year. No need to try to wear yourself out trying to get the best record and then falter in the playoffs.