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Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST)

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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#201 » by NO-KG-AI » Thu May 13, 2010 7:54 pm

We both know you aren't the person I was referring to in those posts anyway :P
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#202 » by Tesla » Thu May 13, 2010 8:02 pm

As many pro-Kobe people as there are, there are just as many anti -kobe people... then there is a pretty big moderate/middle IMO (where some believe they are...but really are not, but that's another story lol)... so at the end it all balances itself out.
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#203 » by Doctor MJ » Thu May 13, 2010 8:37 pm

Chiming in:

I wouldn't claim that all biases cancel each other out, and it's true there are some Kobe supporters well outside of the norm. However, I don't think the end result justifies that much alarm. The guy who is clearly doing better in this project than in MVP voting is Garnett, not Kobe. Kobe didn't even win POY in the year where he won the MVP.
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#204 » by ElGee » Thu May 13, 2010 10:06 pm

bastillon wrote:Kobe 0.38
KG 0.16
T-Mac 0.16
Kidd 0.14
Dirk 0.7

close call between these players ? agreed.
but it's just that something doesn't add up here, because it wasn't a close call according to voters in the first place. I don't know.


Kobe was on every ballot. KG and T-Mac were on 24 COMBINED. Winning the championship didn't hurt Kobe. I think voting him 2nd or 3rd are just ignoring (?) his poor production from November to May.
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#205 » by ElGee » Thu May 13, 2010 10:12 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:Chiming in:

I wouldn't claim that all biases cancel each other out, and it's true there are some Kobe supporters well outside of the norm. However, I don't think the end result justifies that much alarm. The guy who is clearly doing better in this project than in MVP voting is Garnett, not Kobe. Kobe didn't even win POY in the year where he won the MVP.


Completely agree -- all biases do not cancel each other out. I also don't see any blind hatred toward Bryant in these threads -- most of the discussion is fruitful and thought out, and he actually has extremely strong modal results in a lot of years, so I'm not sure where the canceling would take place.

Oh, and he shouldn't have won the MVP in 2008, so that might be why he didn't win POY. :wink:
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#206 » by bastillon » Thu May 13, 2010 10:17 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:Chiming in:

I wouldn't claim that all biases cancel each other out, and it's true there are some Kobe supporters well outside of the norm. However, I don't think the end result justifies that much alarm. The guy who is clearly doing better in this project than in MVP voting is Garnett, not Kobe. Kobe didn't even win POY in the year where he won the MVP.


given that Garnett outplayed him in the postseason and led the MVP voting until he got hurt, it's not that surprising. you people are acting as if Garnett got that POY award being merely TOP5 player or smth. greatest turnaround, championship, statistical dominance - KG had it all.

and RS MVP isn't a good indicator at all. we've analyzed 9 years including 01 and only 3 MVPs won POY, Duncan 03, Garnett 04 and LeBron 09.
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#207 » by Gongxi » Thu May 13, 2010 10:57 pm

Tesla wrote:As many pro-Kobe people as there are, there are just as many anti -kobe people


Are there any anti-Kobe people? There are two people in particular that seem to rate him bizarrely high and then a couple that just seem to- probably unconsciously- favor him. Maybe there are a couple people here that also unconsciously are biased against him, but I haven't seen any counterweight to the first guys I mentioned.
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#208 » by bastillon » Thu May 13, 2010 11:02 pm

UAF has Kobe 1st almost every year so ...
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#209 » by sp6r=underrated » Thu May 13, 2010 11:04 pm

UAF is An Unbiased Fan so why are you guys discussing him.
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#210 » by bastillon » Thu May 13, 2010 11:11 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:UAF is An Unbiased Fan so why are you guys discussing him.


it's gonna be interesting if he participates after Bryant drops out of the picture.
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#211 » by Gongxi » Thu May 13, 2010 11:12 pm

He might, just to rank Jordan 5th every year.
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#212 » by An Unbiased Fan » Thu May 13, 2010 11:51 pm

bastillon wrote:UAF has Kobe 1st almost every year so ...

No, I haven't. The last time I put him at #1 was 2006.
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#213 » by sp6r=underrated » Fri May 14, 2010 12:11 am

I'm surprised Dirk got so little love this year. He wasn't on half the ballots.
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#214 » by semi-sentient » Fri May 14, 2010 12:18 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:Well it's pretty easy when you see "omg, if you put this player above Kobe, im gonna rank him at 1-2 just to make up the difference".

He seems to be the only one getting absurdly high ratings in years he shouldn't, but that's to be expected given the circumstances.


I said I was joking in the other thread, so don't bring that crap up.

That's pathetic.

PS: Site updated. Duncan has a massive lead in POY shares, and I don't think Shaq will be able to catch him even though he'll sweep from 99-00 to 01-02. It'll be interesting though.

Code: Select all

1. Tim Duncan         4.455
2. Kobe Bryant        3.203
3. Kevin Garnett      2.929
4. LeBron James       2.267
5. Shaquille O'Neal   1.823
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#215 » by NO-KG-AI » Fri May 14, 2010 12:31 am

What's funny is, I don't even feel that you are doing that, but I felt like others doing it that way to alter results, your comment just stuck out.
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#216 » by semi-sentient » Fri May 14, 2010 12:43 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:What's funny is, I don't even feel that you are doing that, but I felt like others doing it that way to alter results, your comment just stuck out.


My bad then. I thought you were accusing me of purposely doing that.

I agree that it's happening, but it hasn't skewed the results THAT much. There are people who are purposely leaving Kobe off their ballots (2005-06) and putting players above him (Malone in 01?) to balance things out, or at least make it closer to what it should be. Kobe has been recognized as one of the top players of the decade (along with Duncan and Shaq), so it's no surprise to me that Duncan and Kobe currently hold the 1/2 spots on the historical view, while Shaq will be right there as soon as we finish up 99-00. To me, the results are right on point, although I'm a bit surprised by how large of a lead Duncan has. KG at #4 doesn't shock me one bit. It's what I would expect considering his lack of success, which does play a part in all of this.
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#217 » by semi-sentient » Fri May 14, 2010 12:52 am

BTW, if we were to leave out 99-00 and include 09-10, LeBron would be above both Shaq and KG.
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Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST) 

Post#218 » by Doctor MJ » Fri May 14, 2010 1:26 am

ElGee wrote:Oh, and he shouldn't have won the MVP in 2008, so that might be why he didn't win POY. :wink:


Ha, I think we understand each other, but just so it's clear for everyone: Fine that Garnett won the 2008 POY, but I don't know how a major pro-Kobe bias effect exists without him winning that year.
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