Baller 24 wrote: They were? Really?
Baylor was 5th in MVP voting in '69, he was also doing 25/5/11 and while doing so on his third highest season in terms of efficiency (2nd highest if you don't count injury riddled 1970). He was 34 playing at a very high production, you know who else was playing at a high production at age 34? Michael Jordan, but I guess Pippen carried him and his statistics are inflated along with his MVP award & Championship.
But West too? Really?
He was 2nd in MVP voting on three conseuctive seasons next to Chamberlain, also considered his three best passing seasons ever throughout his career. West had just turned 30 when he joined, in the midst of his prime.
Wilt played with them for 5 years out of a 14 year career. And I never said Wilt's cast sucked, just that Bird & Magic's were better. Wilt himself was about to exit his prime by the time he came to LA.
We're running in circles on this anyway. When I pointed out support, I was listing overall playoff series records above it. That's the only reason I even mentioned it. For much of his career, Wilt didn't' have the same support. You can point to a 5 year span at the end of his career, but that misses the point of observation, which is his entire career.
Though at the same time, none of the teams the Lakers faced throughout this dominance of the west consistend of the TALENT neccsary on any of these teams to very so easily dominate like the kind Bird had to face (save two surprise Rockets stints). Note that the 80s Bucks are in the pack as one of the better defensive teams in history, the '83 Sixers wer know all about them, and the late 80s Pistons too. In the west, despite what SRS states, no one was as relevant historically as the teams in the eastern conference.
SRS is the best method of balancing I can do(it's a great measuring stick). It's not like Magic didn't beat Eastern teams 5 times throughout his career, so i don't know why you're focussing on the West. From 80'-88', Magic's team was 5-2 in the Finals over the Eastern opponent.
You stated Bird would be good, but you questioned his abilities, and at the very same time in an earlier thread you stated that that West very clearly be in an elite group. I'm reading what you stated, nothing else.
I questioned how some aspects of his game would adapt to today. There's nothing wrong with that. Let's not act like this very topic hasn't been a subject of discussion on the PC Board many times. I also never came to a conclusion one way or the other.
I'm stating you did when you question Bird's abilities in the 00s, praise West's abilities in any era, and dismantle Wade's at the same time.
I was simply answering a question you actually posed. It was an honest answer, and I gave reasons for why I felt West/Oscar were above Wade/Lebron. Bird & West aren't the same player, so my analysis won't be the same.
Johnson would be a mismatch on the defensive end too, it works two-ways. I'm focusing on this part, because you're stating that Bird's skills wouldn't transcend in the '00s, that's my point. I can even counter that argument and say that with the abundance of athletic- defensive- players with the lateral quickness, you can limit Johnson's game too (Scottie Pippen '91).
Well, I pointed out that Magic was a defensive liability in the original post. I pointed this out as well in the #3 thread. Neither guy were great defenders.
Magic was stronger than Bird though on offense, and at 6'9 would be matched up up smaller players for the most part.
He would blow by anyone then, his athleticism cannot be contained by anyone there. Though at the same time, how does Jerry West's despite his athletic disadvantages NOT suffer and automatically be elite?
When on the other side you clearly stated that Bird could be disturbed by the length and strengths of players (even though Bird played with those), but it doesn't apply to West?
Wade could blow by and hit a wall in the paint. Again, spacing was different back then, and big men would send Wade to the floor all game long. How long would Wade last playing that way? What Wade would have to do is paly a more perimeter game, and I don't think that's his strength.
And my point with Bird was 3 & 4 are longer and stronger these days. Players who used to play center, are now PF, and many old school PFs are now SFs. The same isn't really true of PG/SGs.
You REALLY think West has the advantages to adapt, while Wade clearly doesn't, beyond the fact that he's superior to terms of athletic abilities to any of West's peers in the 60s?
Oscar wasn't a great athlete??? I already said Wade would be the 3rd best guard, i don't see that as an insult when the Top 2 are West & Oscar.
West is one of the greatest shooters ever, he was a great facilitator, and combo guard. Why are you basing everything on Wade's athletic ability? I eman Westbrook is a better athlete than Nash or Stockton, but....well, you get the point.
In terms of length really who's longer in today's league that plays on the perimeter and can defend a 6'9/6'10 SF? Aside from LeBron James and probably Tracy McGrady, I can't really think of any other players. Other than that, they're still most definitely equal to than say the SF of the 80s (6'7-6'8) range.
Off the top of my head, Prince, Deng, G.Wallace, Marion.
So if I make a thread about Wade playing in the 60s, you seriously would stand by the fact that he wouldn't dominate that era? Not me, but you were the one that questioned Russell's abilities as a defender, stating that the offense just seemed very poor.
No, you're thinking of a different poster. I said Russell would be DPOY caliber in the 00's.
Not comparing, I'm comparing style of play, which is very evident that it's similar. And I'm guessing Bryant would too be very easily the best guard of that era right? Wade however, even with his skillset, his significant advantage in athleticism, and ability to blow by players would barely crack the top 3. Sweet.
LOL, I really don't know why you make it seem like I dissed Wade. YOu asked a question and I gave input. There is no shame being #3 of that era.
