2020-21 RealGM All-Season POY & Other Awards Discussion Thread

[BobbyPortisFan]

Once again it feels like we are ignoring how his best offensive teammates were playing. Jrue still gives you a fair bit defensively, but he was brutal on offense and Middleton wasn't much better. I don't think we are rewarding Giannis for being on a winning team, I think we have to realize he's the primary reason they advanced to the ECF.

I think big men are held to a higher standard than wings because people don't want to account for defense. If we just judged the bucks by results these last three years,
-> almost won title in 19
-> lose to a team that took 2 games off the lakers with bam and dragic hobbled
-> dominante the defending eastern champs by a bigger margin than any other series winner
-> beat a team with a bunch of shooting and decent defense which had two arguable top 10 players on the court at the same time for most of the series.

calling that "not top 5" seems silly. The bucks are pretty average without giannis and they've been successful in the postseaosn and extremely successful in the regular season.

If giannis was on the mavericks, we're probably havving very different conversations than "does he have a case as the best player" or "is he top five".

What does the bold have to do with each other?

The Bucks weren't that close to winning the championship either - the Sixers sure, the Bucks were decisively beaten, and likely would have been beaten by the Sixers as well. Giannis did not play well in that series either.

They were a double overtime away from going 3-0 up and probably still win if van vleet doesn't have a baby. They were outscored by a point a game. That's as close as you get to winning without winning and as close as durant or harden have gotten without 73 win teams.

The sixers kept things close but the raptors role players were signifcantly worse vs the sixers than they were vs the bucks.

Giannis did play well when you account for him being far and away the best defender that series and he also dominanted a good celtics defense to get there in the first place. By results, giannis is firmly a top 5 player and a candidate for best player period. And he's not being used optimally by the bucks. Boxscore doesn't neccesarily say how good you are. Especially when we're talking about arguably the best postseason defender over the last three years.. By results/value he's been the best player over the last three years in the regular seasons and close to the best in the postseason.

So rating him lower than that because his boxscore production and the way he lifts his team doesn't fit an archtype you prefer seems silly.

[HeartBreakKid]

I think big men are held to a higher standard than wings because people don't want to account for defense. If we just judged the bucks by results these last three years,
-> almost won title in 19
-> lose to a team that took 2 games off the lakers with bam and dragic hobbled
-> dominante the defending eastern champs by a bigger margin than any other series winner
-> beat a team with a bunch of shooting and decent defense which had two arguable top 10 players on the court at the same time for most of the series.

calling that "not top 5" seems silly. The bucks are pretty average without giannis and they've been successful in the postseaosn and extremely successful in the regular season.

If giannis was on the mavericks, we're probably havving very different conversations than "does he have a case as the best player" or "is he top five".

What does the bold have to do with each other?

The Bucks weren't that close to winning the championship either - the Sixers sure, the Bucks were decisively beaten, and likely would have been beaten by the Sixers as well. Giannis did not play well in that series either.

They were a double overtime away from going 3-0 up and probably still win if van vleet doesn't have a baby. They were outscored by a point a game. That's as close as you get to winning without winning and as close as durant or harden have gotten without 73 win teams.

The sixers kept things close but the raptors role players were signifcantly worse vs the sixers than they were vs the bucks.

Giannis did play well when you account for him being far and away the best defender that series and he also dominanted a good celtics defense to get there in the first place. By results, giannis is firmly a top 5 player and a candidate for best player period. And he's not being used optimally by the bucks. Boxscore doesn't neccesarily say how good you are. Especially when we're talking about arguably the best postseason defender over the last three years.. By results/value he's been the best player over the last three years in the regular seasons and close to the best in the postseason.

So rating him lower than that because his boxscore production and the way he lifts his team doesn't fit an archtype you prefer seems silly.

Part of his job is to be the best scorer on his team - him not being able to score well or make great plays for his teammates is certainly relevant to his overall ability - he is not Gobert or Capella a lot of his impact is supposed to come from his offense. It seems like you're very all or nothing on this topic - as if you are suggesting that because he had a horrible scoring series he must have been a scrub and did nothing else.

Either he is a top 5 player because he had elite defense with poor boxscore stats, or the only way to be ranked high is to have high boxscore stats and defense doesn't matter. This almost seems like the scenario you're perpetuating. Where did I say that his defense does not matter? Perhaps I think his defense just isn't as good as you think it is. Or perhaps I do think it's really good, and maybe he's #6 and not #5 - which would not make him a top 5. You're making a lot of assumptions about me when I've been saying good things for Giannis for years in this section during a period where his stock was much lower than it is now.

You're also all over the place because I'm not sure what year you're talking about. You're using things that happened in 2019 and 2020 to suggest that he is a top 5 player in 2021. The field is different.


The bold part doesn't suggest that they won an NBA title. Despite what the media says or what has happened in history, being up 3-0 does not mean you won the series, especially in a series where they would lose at least 3 more games afterward in a row. Hardly a guarantee. They also did not really lose by a point in every game, the very next game they lost by 18 points. I'm not sure how we are saying they were outscored by a "point a game" - did you do some type of margin of victory average thing? What would be the point of that when the actual scoring doesn't reflect that?


I applaud you for defending Giannis and considering non-scoring impact, but I don't really get how you can just dog me for being someone who doesn't care about defense (I have Bill Russell as GOAT). I don't expect someone to just know my poster history, but I really didn't say enough for you to jump tot the conclusion that I think Giannis is a scrub because his scoring is not that great. In fact, if I only cared about boxscore metrics I would probably be much higher on Giannis as he does indeed have good boxscore numbers. Anyhoot, I don't even have a list solidified to criticize yet.

[BobbyPortisFan]

What does the bold have to do with each other?

The Bucks weren't that close to winning the championship either - the Sixers sure, the Bucks were decisively beaten, and likely would have been beaten by the Sixers as well. Giannis did not play well in that series either.

They were a double overtime away from going 3-0 up and probably still win if van vleet doesn't have a baby. They were outscored by a point a game. That's as close as you get to winning without winning and as close as durant or harden have gotten without 73 win teams.

The sixers kept things close but the raptors role players were signifcantly worse vs the sixers than they were vs the bucks.

Giannis did play well when you account for him being far and away the best defender that series and he also dominanted a good celtics defense to get there in the first place. By results, giannis is firmly a top 5 player and a candidate for best player period. And he's not being used optimally by the bucks. Boxscore doesn't neccesarily say how good you are. Especially when we're talking about arguably the best postseason defender over the last three years.. By results/value he's been the best player over the last three years in the regular seasons and close to the best in the postseason.

So rating him lower than that because his boxscore production and the way he lifts his team doesn't fit an archtype you prefer seems silly.

Part of his job is to be the best scorer on his team - him not being able to score well or make great plays for his teammates is certainly relevant to his overall ability - he is not Gobert or Capella a lot of his impact is supposed to come from his offense. It seems like you're very all or nothing on this topic - as if you are suggesting that because he had a horrible scoring series he must have been a scrub and did nothing else.

Either he is a top 5 player because he had elite defense with poor boxscore stats, or the only way to be ranked high is to have high boxscore stats and defense doesn't matter. This almost seems like the scenario you're perpetuating. Where did I say that his defense does not matter? Perhaps I think his defense just isn't as good as you think it is. Or perhaps I do think it's really good, and maybe he's #6 and not #5 - which would not make him a top 5. You're making a lot of assumptions about me when I've been saying good things for Giannis for years in this section during a period where his stock was much lower than it is now.

You're also all over the place because I'm not sure what year you're talking about. You're using things that happened in 2019 and 2020 to suggest that he is a top 5 player in 2021. The field is different.


The bold part doesn't suggest that they won an NBA title. Despite what the media says or what has happened in history, being up 3-0 does not mean you won the series, especially in a series where they would lose at least 3 more games afterward in a row. Hardly a guarantee. They also did not really lose by a point in every game, the very next game they lost by 18 points. I'm not sure how we are saying they were outscored by a "point a game" - did you do some type of margin of victory average thing? What would be the point of that when the actual scoring doesn't reflect that?


I applaud you for defending Giannis and considering non-scoring impact, but I don't really get how you can just dog me for being someone who doesn't care about defense (I have Bill Russell as GOAT). I don't expect someone to just know my poster history, but I really didn't say enough for you to jump tot the conclusion that I think Giannis is a scrub because his scoring is not that great. In fact, if I only cared about boxscore metrics I would probably be much higher on Giannis as he does indeed have good boxscore numbers. Anyhoot, I don't even have a list solidified to criticize yet.

I dont get why you're putting so much emphasis on his scoring when, even with his scoring, he's still good enough to lead contenders without anywhere near the help we've seen players you presumably do have in the top 5(like durant or harden) have. Doesn't that speak to his "Overall ability"? If you're ranking him outside of the top 5, which 5 players do you think could replicate the team success giannis has had with the bucks? Which 5 players do you think would be more valuable on the hawks, the suns or the clippers?

I'm using 19 and 20 for context/sample size since playoffs are small samples. Do you think giannis has signficantly regressed from 19 relative to his competition? I don't see much reason to think 21 giannis is alot worse than 19 giannis. His offense looks more versatile if anything and he's shown he can work well as a rim runner and screen setter.

I was using net differential over the series. Sure maybe the raptors are the first team to overcome a 3-0 hole, but if you're vanking on something that's never happened before, I don't think it's fair to describe the series as anything but a "close' one. Also if you're going to say the bucks "weren't that close" because they lost 4 straight, doesn't that also apply to the mavs losing 4-1 over the last 5 games in 2021 once their shooting cooled down, the jazz losing 4-1 without kawhi, the 12 thunder losing 4 straight to the heat, the 12 spurs losing 4 straight to the thunder, the 16 warriors losing 3 straight to the cavs and 16 okc losing three straight to the warriors?

I guess the sixers series was closer, but that doesn't mean the bucks weren't a legit threat to win.


I'm dogging you because your assessment of how big a weakness giannis's scoring is doesn't seem to lineup with the bucks team success. I could get not having him as the best, but not having him top 5? The bucks have comfortably been top 5 over the last three years, and are a top 5 team in the current playoffs. How does that work if giannis isn't a top 5 player? It's not like the bucks are a exeprtly well coached side or an unfairly talented juggernaut.

[Doctor MJ]

So some thoughts now that we're through 2 rounds:

POY

This is the only award I really put a lot of thought into ranking in the regular season (because of MVP), so let me share first my Top 5 MVP guys:

1. Jokic
2. Gobert
3. Curry
4. Embiid
5. Giannis

At this point, I'm not sure if I would change anything on the list, but I will keep thinking on all these guys. Most notably, I'm really going to be thinking hard about Gobert for all the reasons I'm sure y'all know.

Giannis being the only one still active of the bunch is the obvious candidate to knock Jokic off his perch. We'll see what happens.

There are many other great players in this league who would be in the argument for Top 10, but I don't any already eliminated player who isn't currently on that list is going to move up into the list. In terms of guys from still-alive teams other than Giannis, who is the clear Bucks representative:

Suns - Booker & Paul. These are the two guys to discuss here clearly. I maintain what I said before that it's easier to see Booker exploding to reach these heights than Paul. Most likely neither guy quite gets there even if the Suns win the title.

I do want to say that some have scoffed at the notion that Booker be ranked above Doncic, and while I've emphasized that Booker still being a candidate because he's still playing doesn't mean I'm ranking him higher than Doncic, Booker does have a clear path to surpass Doncic. If he rips the Clippers apart all series like he did in Game 1, that probably does it for me.

But I also want to say this: While Doncic does things that screams "basketball genius" in a way I wouldn't ascribe to Booker, I find Doncic's play quite sloppy. Booker, like all of the Suns, seem like they are playing "coach-approved smart basketball". Obviously Paul is the savviest Sun with all the tools he's bringing with his established toolset, but the Suns in general are playing a tight game that really makes use of everybody on the court's strengths.

And meanwhile Doncic was out there publicly dressing down his coach, one of the best in the game who has now resigned. I don't think Doncic demanded him to be fired, but I do think that if Carlisle thought Doncic were more coachable, he'd have wanted to stay.

Clippers - Kawhi & George. There seemed to be a clear path for Kawhi to rise to the top before his injury, and then he gets hurt and the team actually seemed better. Ouch. Now, I'm not suggesting the Clippers should cut Kawhi - I don't think there's any doubt that he's the best individual offense player and best individual defensive player on the roster. But the way the ball flowed out there without Kawhi, Kawhi needs to see that and try to blend in going forward.

He also needs to see the way George looked like the George in OKC that he thought he was getting and realize that George still has it, so the issue is how to get that from George when the two are sharing the floor.

I included George's name here because logically if the Clippers end up winning the title without Kawhi, we're going to be talking about him seriously. He'll need to be incredible though.

Hawks - Trae. I really don't want to imply I'm rating Trae as a top tier contender here just because the Hawks beat the 76ers. But I do think it's a distinct possibility that Trae puts up video game numbers against the Bucks. Maybe it won't happen - Bucks have Jrue, and this is Jrue's time to shine - but the Bud's defensive scheme has exploits.

Of course, Trae would have to follow that up against the Western champs, and I feel like those coaches are more likely to find a successful vise for Trae even if they can't find any one defender to act as the clamp.

OPOY

Felt like Jokic, Steph & Dame were the guys in the regular season. Again thought Kawhi had a shot before injury.

Something I will say though for a couple guys I mentioned before: Booker & Trae have been putting up big On-Court ORtg numbers all year. Booker's currently clocking at 120.2, Young 119.4. Either guy if he explodes in the next couple series with big box score and big On-Court ORtg is going to become a serious challenger.

DPOY

I'm at such a loss here. I thought Gobert was the clear cut guy in the RS, and was fine with Simmons & Draymond as the next two. But now what?

We can put blame on Gobert's defensive supporting cast sure, but Snider's defensive system is built on the theory of a Gobert. Gobert is supposed to allow you to play weaker defenders around him. He's supposed to be a floor-raiser, and the Clippers just torched the Jazz with a 130 ORtg.

To say that the door is open for someone to surpass Gobert is a bit of an understatement...but I don't feel great about any particular candidate to do so.

It's possible the answer is the obvious one: Simmons. Certainly you're talking about with Simmons a great defender who seems more suited to defending in space than Gobert. Not that excited about this though. Maybe it's just the intensity of the bitter aftertaste the Atlanta series left in my mouth due to his offense, in which case, I shouldn't let that bleed in to evaluating his defense.

I'll be looking at how Trae & the Hawks fares against Milwaukee with great interest. If in the end Philly ends up looking like they did about as good a job on them as you can, Simmons will probably be a strong candidate.

Of course, if the Bucks shut down the Hawks, then Giannis or Jrue might end up as really strong contenders.

Draymond is tough because I do have more respect for him than any other defender in the league, but while there's no doubt he's still great, there's also no doubt that his reputation has everything to do with my respect, and I'd have really liked to see him impress in a playoff series to prove he's still what he always was.

As with Curry, it feels wrong the idea that a guy who doesn't play in the playoffs should move up past someone who does. Doesn't mean I won't do it, but it feels wrong.

Other guys on my mind is Clint Capela. The Hawks' defense has been rather shockingly impressive in the playoffs so far, and while I think Coach Nate and the rest of the team are part of this, Capela seems like a clear defensive candidate.

ROY

I don't think any rookie's really been big in the playoffs. Expecting to vote Ball, Edwards, Haliburton.

MIP

So, Randle's not going to be a candidate for me. I was actually really happy for him this year, but the praise heaped on him clearly seems to have been based on him taking on the helio role and doing it "okay" in the regular season, which along with the Thibs defense, was enough to give the Knicks surprising success. We saw in the playoffs though that this was entirely fool's gold, which was always the concern about Randle as a guy who always seemed to be the best fit as the alpha of a team in a lesser league.

Michael Porter was my pick in the regular season, and I'd say he's still my guy for the moment. Disappointing post-season, but I think that was about health. Still, health or no, it did leave the door a crack open for someone else.

I don't like Jerami Grant as a candidate. Like Randle, he's being given a ton of primacy which gives him the big numbers. Unlike Randle, the team stunk with or without him on the floor.

I think SGA screams "MIP" to me, but I just really don't want to give it to a guy who played less than half the season, and whose team seemed to do that to tank. Awards like this about shining a spotlight on players and teams that deserve it, and I'd rather not do that at the moment. Maybe someone can sway me that I'm just being too curmudgeonly there though, because SGA looks great.

I think the Suns duo of Bridges & Ayton deserve serious consideration here.

I think Trae Young may have a really good argument when all is said and done. Yes he scored more last year, but we've seen his ability to adapt this season to better teammates and playoff opponents. It's damn impressive.

6MOY

This is a place where playoffs tends to loom quite large, but to this point none of the bench players in the Final 4 are screaming for attention here, at least to me.

I said Joe Ingles during the RS. Still siding with him, with Clarkson as a candidate for one of the other Top 3 slots.

I think Hardaway makes a lot of sense as a candidate.

Thaddeus Young I also think deserves consideration.

I don't love Rose as a candidate because he only did his Thibs thing for part of the year. If he keeps this up - and stays a non-starter - next year, he'll be a very strong candidate.

COY

I had this as Monty, Quinn, Thibs during the regular season.

Thibs is flat out. I suspected his team wouldn't scale well to playoff competition, but wow. This is fool's gold.

I'd say Quinn Snider is eliminated from #1 consideration at this point, but may still make my Top 3.

I think my #1 spot will go to whoever is more impressive between Monty Williams and Ty Lue in the WCF, and the other guy will likely be #2, but I don't think any lower than #3. These two guys have really announced themselves as undeniably great coaches this year. Some will argue Lue already should have been seen like that, and I'm not going to say they're wrong, but I think they'd agree he's going to rise in stature now. I love the job Monty's done in Phoenix, and man, NO firing him years back hasn't aged well (and I'll admit, I thought it was time for them to try a different coach back then, but yeah, I don't think coaching was the problem).

The other coach becoming impossible to ignore is Nate McMillan. What a story, and yeah, turns out coaching wasn't the problem in Indiana.

EOY

To me this is probably between Sean Marks of Brooklyn and Travis Schlenk of Atlanta.

I've been giving the nod to Marks all year, and I still think he's a great candidate. He built the team that the entire rest of the league was terrified of, and we shouldn't forget that just because injuries brought them down.

With Atlanta performing not one but two upsets with a coach Schlenk hired then promoted midseason, and a bunch of role players Schlenk acquired this year to bolster the Trae-led core he assembled, he's definitely the guy who feels like everything he's touching turns to gold. (Dude's also the guy known for pushing for the Warriors to draft Draymond Green.)

James Jones obviously just won the official award, and to me he's a lesser candidate, but I think this very much depends on your philosophy, and I understand if people see me as cheating/fudging on this. It bothers me that Jones didn't actually build most of this Suns team. The reason to be super-excited about the Suns going forward is Booker/Ayton/Bridges, and Jones wasn't the GM when they drafted those guys. You put Jones on a team whose previous GM actually drafted terribly and there's no reason to think the Suns are anywhere right now.

I will acknowledge that the acquisition of Chris Paul has paid bigger dividends though this season than any other new acquisition. I don't think he's anywhere near as valuable as a get as Harden, and so I'd still be inclined to go with Marks over him if that's your criteria, but I can see the argument over Schlenk, even if I'm considerably more impressed by what I've seen from Schlenk as a GM to this point.

What do y'all think?

[bondom34]

I think SGA screams "MIP" to me, but I just really don't want to give it to a guy who played less than half the season, and whose team seemed to do that to tank. Awards like this about shining a spotlight on players and teams that deserve it, and I'd rather not do that at the moment. Maybe someone can sway me that I'm just being too curmudgeonly there though, because SGA looks great.

Don't know if there's anything I feel too strongly about on here, and the POY seems reasonable at top 5 (might change order a good bit and consider a few others too). Might have some minor differences here or there, and I largely value RS more than most (also don't know if I'd vote but mainly wanted to point this out ). I wouldn't have SGA in the real running for this either due to games played, but his injury seems to be pretty legitimate from all reports. Final word I see is that they called it a "significant" plantar fascia tear.

[PaulieWal]

Gobert at #2 for POY? Gonna need a minute to digest that.

[Doctor MJ]

Gobert at #2 for POY? Gonna need a minute to digest that.

Well first keep in mind that this was a list created in the regular season. Not using that as an excuse, but I really felt like the reasons the vast majority of folks had him lower during the regular season didn't add up. Gobert's +/- ahead during the RS was WAY ahead of everyone else, and the reality is is that if that held during the playoffs, and he kept that up for years, people would become comfortable again with the idea of a defensive anchor as most valuable player, like they were in the days of Bill Russell.

This wasn't a prediction of playoff success, but just a recognition that based on the RS alone, Gobert's impact was undeniable.

Now, everyone skeptical about Gobert in the playoffs is rightfully taking a bow right now, and I may well end up with Gobert not in my Top 5...but this isn't a case where everyone else in the Top 6 is having an amazing, flawless run through the playoffs. I don't think things have felt this chaotic since the '98-99 lockout year.

[Texas Chuck]

Jones is my EOY. He hired this coach. He added Paul and Crowder this year and unearthed reclamation projects in Saric and Payne that tightened up the bench.

Monty is my COY. You introduce Chris Paul, you need a coach who helps make that work and it worked a charm with a couple of young players who accepted major changes to their role and ceded a lot of credit to Paul rightfully or not. Not every coach makes that work this beautifully.

Feels stupid to keep going Suns for everything, but Mikal is my MIP. His offensive strides means his defense stays on the court not only with no drop off at the other end but he's now a clear plus.

6MOY Joe Ingles. Apologies to Gallo or Payne but none of the 4 remaining teams have anyone who can catch up and nobody exceeded Ingles through the first 2 rounds.

DPOY -- still Gobert. I refuse to over-think this or overreact to 3-pt shooting when Gobert forced the Clippers to take a lower percentage of shots in the paint in that series than any team did over the RS. Him not being able to defend the entire court all by himself doesn't take away from the massive impact he has. No close 2nd here.

POY its down to 2. Jokic is still the winner, but if Giannis wins the title and plays well as he has, he's going to stake a real claim. I don't care how a player impacts the game just that they do. Him not shooting jumpers or FT's well doesn't trouble me if he's still completely dominating all the other areas of the game he does. Particularly since his offensive co-stars are missing so many layups/open shots.

OPOY is probably still Jokic just over Curry and Luka. Trae and Booker aren't this level of player and Kawhi's team advancing without him and playing great offense takes a bit of his shine off.

[mikejames23]

Looking back at things -

Rudy Gobert the 3 time DPOY...actually during DPOY mentions earlier in the season, Rudy Gobert was supposedly uncontested, like there was no one close to him. Now the media wants to steal the award back.

I actually waited for a while after the excitement of Game 6, and kept wondering how the Jazz let this happen. The last game was especially interesting, where the Jazz plan was to let Mann shoot, and Mann turned into Ray Alllen, while Clippers went off to nearly 150 O-Rating?

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2021/06/rudy-gobert-jazz-clippers-game-6-defense

Looking through this article, he apparently allowed 79% of shots to go in. Only argument on this is Gobert's not really meant to be at the perimeter, and the rest of the cast was poor with helping.

The Clippers had supposedly changed their style to be not in attacking Gobert and make it more balanced around Game 3.

Big tactical development from Game 3 IMO: Per tracking data via source, the Clippers ran just *16* ball screens involving Rudy Gobert for the entire game. They ran 40 involving other players. It's obvious they're trying to focus their offense away from him.

https://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/clippers-interesting-tactical-adjustment-win-game-3/580208


Note on the Clippers - they averaged 120+ o-rating against the Mavs as well, and through 1 game vs the Suns, so perhaps they can do this to every playoff team?


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Knicks - I think there’s some case to be made around RJ Barrett and Derrick Rose being poor options for scoring. Barrett still prone to mistakes and young, while Rose shouldn’t be leading an NBA offense at this stage of his career. So Thibs might not’ve choked, he simply lacked the talent to get it done.

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Awards -

EOY - Hawks. Adding a good amount of depth and then letting Nate McMillan take over look like money moves looking back.

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ROY

Meh list… i’d probably roll with Anthony Edwards. Good production in 2nd half of year.

OPOY

Lillard, Curry, Jokic… As all 3 are out, I don’t see this changing.

MIP

Julius Randle - Great season by the numbers, and being meh in the playoffs didn’t do enough for me to knock him out.

6 MOY

Ingles I guess. - Good player, should’ve been better in the Clippers series when Conley was out.

DPOY, COY, POY I’ll wait for playoffs to be over. They're still pretty close.

[eminence]

In my eyes the takeaway of the Clippers/Jazz series isn't a direct commentary on Gobert - it's that it may be possible to negate (or near it) potentially every defensive player in history with a high enough level of overall shooting/other offensive talent. I'm unsure yet whether I'll commit to that, as the Jazz rotations outside of Gobert were truly terrible, with a drive and kick often being enough to generate the Clippers a completely open look. If the Clippers keep it up against a more competently rotating team like the Suns I may concede it (though maybe not if CP3 doesn't return).

I agree with the above articles note that the Clippers stopped going at Gobert directly in the PnR (they weren't getting through him) about midway through the series.

[Doctor MJ]

Feels stupid to keep going Suns for everything, but Mikal is my MIP. His offensive strides means his defense stays on the court not only with no drop off at the other end but he's now a clear plus.

Only thing I'm going to say is that the more I watch Ayton, the more he stands out to me as the MIP over Bridges, and possibly over the entire league.

Everything seems to be rising up like a phoenix in Phoenix, including the temperature.

[Outside]

A little late, but here's where I'm at after two rounds.

POY

1. Jokic
2. Giannis
3. Curry
4. Embiid
5. What feels like a 14-way tie

Jokic is still clearly my number one, but the gap I had between him and the field has closed significantly. Jokic put up really good box score stats in his playoff run, but his defense was not good, and Ayton was able to somewhat limit him. It's not Jokic's fault that half his team was hurt and he was playing with scrubs at both guard spots against a team with excellent guards, but despite the counting stats, I still came away from the Phoenix series with too much of a meh feeling. I'm trying hard to stick with my resolve that the RS counts for a lot and that he dominated the RS from an MVP standpoint.

We'll see about Giannis. He's the only one I can see that has a chance to overtake Jokic. He wasn't off to a great PS start, but he closed really well against the Nets. He had an under-the-radar RS that means he wasn't that far behind Jokic to begin with.

Curry was unbelievably good this season. The on/off numbers are staggering. Once Wiseman and Oubre were hurt and the team was no longer in development mode (Wiseman) or don't-want-to-hurt-your-ego mode (Oubre), they went for wins, Curry went nuclear, and they shoulda coulda woulda made the playoffs. I watched him game after game, and Curry was special. I always considered him among the best ceiling raisers ever for a championship-level team but didn't think he was that good of a floor raiser for a lousy team, but this season proved me wrong on that count.

Embiid is really good on both ends and has the impact stats to back that up. But he missed too many games, he got hurt again in the playoffs, and he faded late in games too often. He's just not durable. His PS production was good, but his efficiency was down significantly. He was much less impactful defensively. Some of that is due to playing with a knee injury, and some to the general team dysfunction, but this was not that great of a PS for him.

As for the fifth spot, I suppose if push comes to shove, I'd pick Lillard. Impact stats say this should be Gobert, but I can't get over what I saw in the Clippers series, which is that preventing the opponent from shooting layups is only so much of a benefit when they're raining threes on you. It's not Gobert's fault that they were raining threes, but he couldn't do anything about it either. And his lack of offensive game, just hoping beyond hope each game that he could make himself useful on that end, that hurts his case. I really liked Utah and wanted them to win, and it's too bad Conley was out and Mitchell was still hurt, but everybody's dealing with something. Gobert just wasn't close to being the most important player in the series.

Durant was awesome, but the RS counts, and he only played 35 games. Kawhi missed too many games, and like Doctor MJ said, it doesn't look good for Kawhi that the Clippers in general and Paul George in particular actually look better with him out. James Harden was great but missed too many games. Luka was great but not as good when you do a deep dive, and he faded in most PS games. Everyone else has issues.

DPOY

1. Rudy Gobert
2. Draymond Green
3. Ben Simmons
4. Joel Embiid
5. Deandre Ayton

The top four are here based on the RS, Ayton based on the PS.

MIP

1. Deandre Ayton
2. Julius Randle
3. Michael Porter, Jr.
4. Zion Williamson
5. Andrew Wiggins

Ayton has the benefit of the PS. I don't think Wiggins has been mentioned much, but he should be recognized for becoming a very good defender after having a reputation as someone who didn't have effort or focus on that end.

COY

1. Monty Williams
2. Nate McMillan
3. Steve Nash
4. Taylor Jenkins
5. Quin Snyder

I can't bring myself to include Thibodeau after their lousy showing in the PS.

EOY

1. Sean Marks
2. James Jones
3. Travis Schlenk

No one else stands out to me.

[Colbinii]

MIP

So, Randle's not going to be a candidate for me. I was actually really happy for him this year, but the praise heaped on him clearly seems to have been based on him taking on the helio role and doing it "okay" in the regular season, which along with the Thibs defense, was enough to give the Knicks surprising success. We saw in the playoffs though that this was entirely fool's gold, which was always the concern about Randle as a guy who always seemed to be the best fit as the alpha of a team in a lesser league.

Michael Porter was my pick in the regular season, and I'd say he's still my guy for the moment. Disappointing post-season, but I think that was about health. Still, health or no, it did leave the door a crack open for someone else.

I don't like Jerami Grant as a candidate. Like Randle, he's being given a ton of primacy which gives him the big numbers. Unlike Randle, the team stunk with or without him on the floor.

I think SGA screams "MIP" to me, but I just really don't want to give it to a guy who played less than half the season, and whose team seemed to do that to tank. Awards like this about shining a spotlight on players and teams that deserve it, and I'd rather not do that at the moment. Maybe someone can sway me that I'm just being too curmudgeonly there though, because SGA looks great.

I think the Suns duo of Bridges & Ayton deserve serious consideration here.

I think Trae Young may have a really good argument when all is said and done. Yes he scored more last year, but we've seen his ability to adapt this season to better teammates and playoff opponents. It's damn impressive.

My MIP in the regular season was Joel Embiid. He improved from an all-star, weak All-NBA player to a MVP and DPOY level player. Embiid made the most difficult jump as a player, which is becoming a player who can be the best player on a Championship team. The 76ers were never, ever going to sniff anything close to a Championship with Embiid as their best player if he were at the level pre-2021, yet he found it in himself to take the next step as a player.

Suns Suns and more Suns

Relax a bit on the Suns. We get it, they are good, but they have been fortunate to play against a team missing a key piece (Davis, Murray, Kawhi) in all rounds.

No way should Mikal Bridges be receiving MIP votes here. He is a fine player but it seems like you have a cake to cut up and are just giving an entire cake to each aspect of the Suns rather than being rational about how to give out praise.

[Texas Chuck]

Suns Suns and more Suns

Relax a bit on the Suns. We get it, they are good, but they have been fortunate to play against a team missing a key piece (Davis, Murray, Kawhi) in all rounds.

No way should Mikal Bridges be receiving MIP votes here. He is a fine player but it seems like you have a cake to cut up and are just giving an entire cake to each aspect of the Suns rather than being rational about how to give out praise.

I'm going to cut you some slack because I notice you've been off your game a bit lately. But this really should have started with a Bosom Buddies, Sunny, Sunny, Sunny. Classic line, fits perfect.

And I probably am giving too much love to Phoenix. Fair criticism for sure. But I'm 95% sure I'm on the record with Jones, Monty, and Mikal before the playoffs even started so this overreaction isn't on the playoffs alone fwiw.

[Colbinii]

Suns Suns and more Suns

Relax a bit on the Suns. We get it, they are good, but they have been fortunate to play against a team missing a key piece (Davis, Murray, Kawhi) in all rounds.

No way should Mikal Bridges be receiving MIP votes here. He is a fine player but it seems like you have a cake to cut up and are just giving an entire cake to each aspect of the Suns rather than being rational about how to give out praise.

I'm going to cut you some slack because I notice you've been off your game a bit lately. But this really should have started with a Bosom Buddies, Sunny, Sunny, Sunny. Classic line, fits perfect.

And I probably am giving too much love to Phoenix. Fair criticism for sure. But I'm 95% sure I'm on the record with Jones, Monty, and Mikal before the playoffs even started so this overreaction isn't on the playoffs alone fwiw.

Has Mikal improved more than Embiid?

Embiid's improvements are real and even though I don't want to say "Look at the stats"--look at the stats.

PER: 25.8-->30.3
BPM: 4.7-->7.2
WS/48: .192-->.266
Scoring per 100: 37.7-->44.3
TS Add: 51.1-->147.2
MVP Shares: 7th-->2nd

Sorry for being off, I have had two major changes in my life recently. One, I was forced to go back into the office last week and I'll forgo sharing number two

[Texas Chuck]

I concede. I concede. Mikal a bad pick. But let me tell you about 6MOY Cam Payne....

[Doctor MJ]

Hawks - Trae. I really don't want to imply I'm rating Trae as a top tier contender here just because the Hawks beat the 76ers. But I do think it's a distinct possibility that Trae puts up video game numbers against the Bucks. Maybe it won't happen - Bucks have Jrue, and this is Jrue's time to shine - but the Bud's defensive scheme has exploits.

Of course, Trae would have to follow that up against the Western champs, and I feel like those coaches are more likely to find a successful vise for Trae even if they can't find any one defender to act as the clamp.

Please forgive me highlighting my own quote. Wanted to make sure more people saw this, though I won't pretend it isn't a bit of a (even broken clocks...) victory lap. Not so bold as to have said it was definitely going to happen, because I never know these things, but man, this kid is exciting.

[HeartBreakKid]

I'm thinking Capella deserves a spot over Simmons.

[Colbinii]

I'm thinking Capella deserves a spot over Simmons.

He has been a better defender all season long.

[Doctor MJ]

I'm thinking Capella deserves a spot over Simmons.

He has been a better defender all season long.

Am I nuts for being more impressed with Capella than any other defender in the playoffs?