Chris Paul 21-22 Thread

[Lost92Bricks]

His worst game IMO was his game 3 against the Spurs in 2015. He and the Clippers got killed in San Antonio and went down 2-1.

Another one is in 2013 right after all-star break, Tony Parker kicked his ass on national TV in Staples Center. It was embarrassing.

[falcolombardi]

i once compared curry and paul team offense results and it was pretty interesting

curry

2015 +4 (RS) +4.1(PS)
2016 +7.9(RS)+5.7(PS)
2017 +6.8(RS)+11.6 (PS)
2018 + 5.0(RS)+6.5(PS)
2019 + 5.5(RS)+5.4 (PS)
average: 5.85 (RS) 6.6(PS)
combined average: +6.2

RAMP 2015-2019: +5.5

chris paul

2013 + 4.7 (RS) +8.3(PS)
2014 +5.4 (RS) +11.0(PS)
2015 +6.8 (RS) +6.3 (PS)
2016 +1.9 (RS) -2.6 (PS)
2017 +3.9 (RS) +4.6 (PS)
2018 + 6.1 (RS) +3.5(PS)

13-18: +4.5(RS) +5.2 (PS) (+6.6 without the 2016 outlier which would make it equal to curry 5-year peak)
combined average: +4.8
RAPM 2014-2018: +5.5

chris paul is generally seen as a better defender

his team offense results are a step below but fairly comparable although with weaker teammates (and more injuries)

and plus-minus metrics love both about equally

again why are we so sure curry is in a tier above when he looks more than comparable by most metrics? are we sure there is not some ring bias involved?

[trex_8063]

I didn't say any of those were legacy games...... Just candidates for the worst he's ever played in playoffs since Jaivl thought this Mavs game 3 might've been his worst

Cherry-picking is fun....

So last night he was 12 pts @ 66.7% TS, 7 reb, 4 ast, 7 tov.
Couple examples of games you're listing [as his potential worst] include:
10 pts @ 55.6% TS, 4 reb, 5 ast, 8 tov
9 pts @ 41.4% TS, 5 reb, 8 ast, 4 tov.

Since you're making it your goal to label him a playoff choker (while Kevin Harlan, Reggie Miller, Doris Burke et al are all praising his "clutchness", Reggie wanting to call him "Mr. 4th Quarter", fwiw), I just want to take a look at some of the stinkers [or semi-stinkers] of a player you no doubt have multiple tiers ahead of Paul AND likely consider a "clutch" playoff performer......

15 pts @ 48.6% TS, 7 reb, 3 ast, 2 tov
14 pts @ 43.75% TS, 8 reb, 6 ast, 3 tov
31 pts @ 50.9% TS, 12 reb, 2 ast, 8 tov
12 pts @ 30.2% TS, 14 reb, 4 ast, 6 tov [in an elimination game, btw]
12 pts @ 43.2% TS, 12 reb, 9 ast, 10 tov [well, it's a triple-double]
8 pts @ 31.3% TS, 13 reb, 10 ast, (plus 5 steals), 3 tov (hesitant to include, as he was double-figures in reb/ast and only 3 tov; but just 8 pts on atrocious shooting for a guy relied on [more than Paul is] as a scorer [and also different tier [supposedly "clutch"] star, too])
8 pts @ 33.7% TS, 12 reb, 7 ast, 3 tov
10 pts @ 42.5% TS, 12 reb, 4 ast, (tov missing from box, though avg 3.2 topg in the five-game series, fwiw)
10 pts @ 29.6% TS, 8 reb, 1 ast, (tov missing from box, but from same 3.2 topg series)
18 pts @ 44.0% TS, 14 reb, 4 ast, 6 tov
14 pts @ 35.2% TS, 17 reb, 4 ast, 5 tov
17 pts @ 45.3% TS, 10 reb, 4 ast, 2 tov
18 pts @ 45.0% TS, 11 reb, 8 ast, 6 tov [another elimination game, fwiw]
21 pts @ 45.3% TS, 13 reb, 4 ast, 9 tov
21 pts @ 44.0% TS, 7 reb, 7 ast, 3 tov
14 pts @ 39.7% TS, 7 reb, 6 ast, 8 tov [in a close-out game, which they lost]
17 pts @ 40.3% TS, 5 reb, 5 ast, 2 tov [in the next close-out game, which they won anyway]
20 pts @ 43.1% TS, 7 reb, 3 ast, 2 tov
17 pts @ 51.1% TS, 11 reb, 6 ast, 5 tov
16 pts @ 50.0% TS, 7 reb, 4 ast, 3 tov
16 pts @ 45.0% TS, 9 reb, 5 ast, 4 tov [elimination game]
16 pts @ 37.4% TS, 14 reb, 5 ast, 2 tov [elimination game]
15 pts @ 46.6% TS, 9 reb, 6 ast, 3 tov
10 pts @ 40.6% TS, 7 reb, 4 ast, 1 tov
13 pts @ 53.3% TS, 6 reb, 4 ast, 1 tov
16 pts @ 42.4% TS, 5 reb, 5 ast, 1 tov
12 pts @ 38.1% TS, 4 reb, 4 ast, 0 tov [elimination game]
4 pts @ 34.0% TS, 2 reb, 3 ast, 1 tov [injured, played just 17 min, but not well]
13 pts @ 62.3% TS, 5 reb, 0 ast, 2 tov [in 20 min, again injured]


I'll stop with that. There are several others that aren't much better than most of the above.
Shall we select the half-dozen WORST of the above (perhaps the five I bolded, plus one other?) and see how they compare to Paul's half-dozen WORST playoff games? Bearing in mind, of course, that this^^^ is an entirely different tier of player and not a choker like Paul.

Can we guess who this is?

[falcolombardi]

I didn't say any of those were legacy games...... Just candidates for the worst he's ever played in playoffs since Jaivl thought this Mavs game 3 might've been his worst

Cherry-picking is fun....

So last night he was 12 pts @ 66.7% TS, 7 reb, 4 ast, 7 tov.
Couple examples of games you're listing [as his potential worst] include:
10 pts @ 55.6% TS, 4 reb, 5 ast, 8 tov
9 pts @ 41.4% TS, 5 reb, 8 ast, 4 tov.

Since you're making it your goal to label him a playoff choker (while Kevin Harlan, Reggie Miller, Doris Burke et al are all praising his "clutchness", Reggie wanting to call him "Mr. 4th Quarter", fwiw), I just want to take a look at some of the stinkers [or semi-stinkers] of a player you no doubt have multiple tiers ahead of Paul AND likely consider a "clutch" playoff performer......

15 pts @ 48.6% TS, 7 reb, 3 ast, 2 tov
14 pts @ 43.75% TS, 8 reb, 6 ast, 3 tov
31 pts @ 50.9% TS, 12 reb, 2 ast, 8 tov
12 pts @ 30.2% TS, 14 reb, 4 ast, 6 tov [in an elimination game, btw]
12 pts @ 43.2% TS, 12 reb, 9 ast, 10 tov [well, it's a triple-double]
8 pts @ 31.3% TS, 13 reb, 10 ast, (plus 5 steals), 3 tov (hesitant to include, as he was double-figures in reb/ast and only 3 tov; but just 8 pts on atrocious shooting for a guy relied on [more than Paul is] as a scorer [and also different tier [supposedly "clutch"] star, too])
8 pts @ 33.7% TS, 12 reb, 7 ast, 3 tov
10 pts @ 42.5% TS, 12 reb, 4 ast, (tov missing from box, though avg 3.2 topg in the five-game series, fwiw)
10 pts @ 29.6% TS, 8 reb, 1 ast, (tov missing from box, but from same 3.2 topg series)
18 pts @ 44.0% TS, 14 reb, 4 ast, 6 tov
14 pts @ 35.2% TS, 17 reb, 4 ast, 5 tov
17 pts @ 45.3% TS, 10 reb, 4 ast, 2 tov
18 pts @ 45.0% TS, 11 reb, 8 ast, 6 tov [another elimination game, fwiw]
21 pts @ 45.3% TS, 13 reb, 4 ast, 9 tov
21 pts @ 44.0% TS, 7 reb, 7 ast, 3 tov
14 pts @ 39.7% TS, 7 reb, 6 ast, 8 tov [in a close-out game, which they lost]
17 pts @ 40.3% TS, 5 reb, 5 ast, 2 tov [in the next close-out game, which they won anyway]
20 pts @ 43.1% TS, 7 reb, 3 ast, 2 tov
17 pts @ 51.1% TS, 11 reb, 6 ast, 5 tov
16 pts @ 50.0% TS, 7 reb, 4 ast, 3 tov
16 pts @ 45.0% TS, 9 reb, 5 ast, 4 tov [elimination game]
16 pts @ 37.4% TS, 14 reb, 5 ast, 2 tov [elimination game]
15 pts @ 46.6% TS, 9 reb, 6 ast, 3 tov
10 pts @ 40.6% TS, 7 reb, 4 ast, 1 tov
13 pts @ 53.3% TS, 6 reb, 4 ast, 1 tov
16 pts @ 42.4% TS, 5 reb, 5 ast, 1 tov
12 pts @ 38.1% TS, 4 reb, 4 ast, 0 tov [elimination game]
4 pts @ 34.0% TS, 2 reb, 3 ast, 1 tov [injured, played just 17 min, but not well]
13 pts @ 62.3% TS, 5 reb, 0 ast, 2 tov [in 20 min, again injured]


I'll stop with that. There are several others that aren't much better than most of the above.
Shall we select the half-dozen WORST of the above (perhaps the five I bolded, plus one other?) and see how they compare to Paul's half-dozen WORST playoff games? Bearing in mind, of course, that this^^^ is an entirely different tier of player and not a choker like Paul.

Can we guess who this is?

paul pierce?

[dygaction]

i once compared curry and paul team offense results and it was pretty interesting

curry

2015 +4 (RS) +4.1(PS)
2016 +7.9(RS)+5.7(PS)
2017 +6.8(RS)+11.6 (PS)
2018 + 5.0(RS)+6.5(PS)
2019 + 5.5(RS)+5.4 (PS)
average: 5.85 (RS) 6.6(PS)
combined average: +6.2

RAMP 2015-2019: +5.5

chris paul

2013 + 4.7 (RS) +8.3(PS)
2014 +5.4 (RS) +11.0(PS)
2015 +6.8 (RS) +6.3 (PS)
2016 +1.9 (RS) -2.6 (PS)
2017 +3.9 (RS) +4.6 (PS)
2018 + 6.1 (RS) +3.5(PS)

13-18: +4.5(RS) +5.2 (PS) (+6.6 without the 2016 outlier which would make it equal to curry 5-year peak)
combined average: +4.8
RAPM 2014-2018: +5.5

chris paul is generally seen as a better defender

his team offense results are a step below but fairly comparable although with weaker teammates (and more injuries)

and plus-minus metrics love both about equally

again why are we so sure curry is in a tier above when he looks more than comparable by most metrics? are we sure there is not some ring bias involved?

Because Curry's team actually won and his PS stats came from deeper runs and higher levels of competitions. If you switch them, they may have similar stats, but CP3's previous "weaker teammates" would likely get more rings.

[Colbinii]

I didn't say any of those were legacy games...... Just candidates for the worst he's ever played in playoffs since Jaivl thought this Mavs game 3 might've been his worst

Cherry-picking is fun....

So last night he was 12 pts @ 66.7% TS, 7 reb, 4 ast, 7 tov.
Couple examples of games you're listing [as his potential worst] include:
10 pts @ 55.6% TS, 4 reb, 5 ast, 8 tov
9 pts @ 41.4% TS, 5 reb, 8 ast, 4 tov.

Since you're making it your goal to label him a playoff choker (while Kevin Harlan, Reggie Miller, Doris Burke et al are all praising his "clutchness", Reggie wanting to call him "Mr. 4th Quarter", fwiw), I just want to take a look at some of the stinkers [or semi-stinkers] of a player you no doubt have multiple tiers ahead of Paul AND likely consider a "clutch" playoff performer......

15 pts @ 48.6% TS, 7 reb, 3 ast, 2 tov
14 pts @ 43.75% TS, 8 reb, 6 ast, 3 tov
31 pts @ 50.9% TS, 12 reb, 2 ast, 8 tov
12 pts @ 30.2% TS, 14 reb, 4 ast, 6 tov [in an elimination game, btw]
12 pts @ 43.2% TS, 12 reb, 9 ast, 10 tov [well, it's a triple-double]
8 pts @ 31.3% TS, 13 reb, 10 ast, (plus 5 steals), 3 tov (hesitant to include, as he was double-figures in reb/ast and only 3 tov; but just 8 pts on atrocious shooting for a guy relied on [more than Paul is] as a scorer [and also different tier [supposedly "clutch"] star, too])
8 pts @ 33.7% TS, 12 reb, 7 ast, 3 tov
10 pts @ 42.5% TS, 12 reb, 4 ast, (tov missing from box, though avg 3.2 topg in the five-game series, fwiw)
10 pts @ 29.6% TS, 8 reb, 1 ast, (tov missing from box, but from same 3.2 topg series)
18 pts @ 44.0% TS, 14 reb, 4 ast, 6 tov
14 pts @ 35.2% TS, 17 reb, 4 ast, 5 tov
17 pts @ 45.3% TS, 10 reb, 4 ast, 2 tov
18 pts @ 45.0% TS, 11 reb, 8 ast, 6 tov [another elimination game, fwiw]
21 pts @ 45.3% TS, 13 reb, 4 ast, 9 tov
21 pts @ 44.0% TS, 7 reb, 7 ast, 3 tov
14 pts @ 39.7% TS, 7 reb, 6 ast, 8 tov [in a close-out game, which they lost]
17 pts @ 40.3% TS, 5 reb, 5 ast, 2 tov [in the next close-out game, which they won anyway]
20 pts @ 43.1% TS, 7 reb, 3 ast, 2 tov
17 pts @ 51.1% TS, 11 reb, 6 ast, 5 tov
16 pts @ 50.0% TS, 7 reb, 4 ast, 3 tov
16 pts @ 45.0% TS, 9 reb, 5 ast, 4 tov [elimination game]
16 pts @ 37.4% TS, 14 reb, 5 ast, 2 tov [elimination game]
15 pts @ 46.6% TS, 9 reb, 6 ast, 3 tov
10 pts @ 40.6% TS, 7 reb, 4 ast, 1 tov
13 pts @ 53.3% TS, 6 reb, 4 ast, 1 tov
16 pts @ 42.4% TS, 5 reb, 5 ast, 1 tov
12 pts @ 38.1% TS, 4 reb, 4 ast, 0 tov [elimination game]
4 pts @ 34.0% TS, 2 reb, 3 ast, 1 tov [injured, played just 17 min, but not well]
13 pts @ 62.3% TS, 5 reb, 0 ast, 2 tov [in 20 min, again injured]


I'll stop with that. There are several others that aren't much better than most of the above.
Shall we select the half-dozen WORST of the above (perhaps the five I bolded, plus one other?) and see how they compare to Paul's half-dozen WORST playoff games? Bearing in mind, of course, that this^^^ is an entirely different tier of player and not a choker like Paul.

Can we guess who this is?

paul pierce?

Magic Johnson

[coastalmarker99]

The Point God ended the game today with 5 points 7 assists and 5 rebounds to go along with 2 turnovers.


It's a credit to Dallas that their defence has really shut him and the suns down over the past two games.

[coastalmarker99]

Chris Paul has already lost 5 playoff series while being up by 2 games in his career.

Lost in 7 to Spurs in 2008 while being up 2-0

Lost in 6 to the Grizzlies in 2013 while being up 2-0

Lost in 7 to Houston in 2015 while being up 3-1

Lost in 6 to Portland in 2016 while being up 2-0

Lost in 6 to the Bucks in 2021 while being up 2-0

The Suns are now 2-2 against the Mavs while they were up 2-0 after game 2




Do you think this series will be the 6th time that he blows it?


Also, I have taken a look at the number of series losses while being up by at least 2 games by other superstars

LeBron: 0

KD: 1

Steph: 1

Harden: 0


CP3 clearly is a complete outlier in the playoffs much as Doc rivers is in blowing leads.

[Lost92Bricks]

CP3 clearly is a complete outlier in the playoffs much as Doc rivers is in blowing leads.

Maybe Doc gets too much criticism. Maybe he just didn't coach good enough players aside from when he was in Boston. Who knows???

[art_tatum]

Cp3 is a fraud those who made fun of me saying his great first round game won't last are sure quiet now once they actually gameplay against him.
History speaks for itself.

Lmao at the advanced stats people who can't figure out why curry (who i think isn't even a top 5 player now) is so much better than him.
Wow comparable advanced stats? Maybe use your eyes it's clear curry has been the better player since 2013. Yes he was the best player in the clippers warriors series too.

Advanced stats isn't everything as it's just incomplete data.

[DirtyDez]

The Chris Paul playoff experience-

[Jaivl]

Cp3 is a fraud those who made fun of me saying his great first round game won't last are sure quiet now once they actually gameplay against him.
History speaks for itself.

Lmao at the advanced stats people who can't figure out why curry (who i think isn't even a top 5 player now) is so much better than him.
Wow comparable advanced stats? Maybe use your eyes it's clear curry has been the better player since 2013. Yes he was the best player in the clippers warriors series too.

Advanced stats isn't everything as it's just incomplete data.

List of all the people that have said Paul is a better player than Curry:

[Texas Chuck]

Cp3 is a fraud those who made fun of me saying his great first round game won't last are sure quiet now once they actually gameplay against him.
History speaks for itself.

Lmao at the advanced stats people who can't figure out why curry (who i think isn't even a top 5 player now) is so much better than him.
Wow comparable advanced stats? Maybe use your eyes it's clear curry has been the better player since 2013. Yes he was the best player in the clippers warriors series too.

Advanced stats isn't everything as it's just incomplete data.

List of all the people that have said Paul is a better player than Curry:

I mean this isn't that big a deal. I can have felt Chris Paul was playing great when you know he was playing great. And I can acknowledge he just had two brutal games. Both are true and neither invalidates the other.

And I don't think Paul is a better player than Curry, though I think its a lot closer probably than most.

But I find it wild this expectation that if we don't take radical kneejerk turns on players after every game or two, we are advanced stats worshipping morons. I mean wat?

[cpower]

Chris Paul has already lost 5 playoff series while being up by 2 games in his career.

Lost in 7 to Spurs in 2008 while being up 2-0

Lost in 6 to the Grizzlies in 2013 while being up 2-0

Lost in 7 to Houston in 2015 while being up 3-1

Lost in 6 to Portland in 2016 while being up 2-0

Lost in 6 to the Bucks in 2021 while being up 2-0

The Suns are now 2-2 against the Mavs while they were up 2-0 after game 2




Do you think this series will be the 6th time that he blows it?


Also, I have taken a look at the number of series losses while being up by at least 2 games by other superstars

LeBron: 0

KD: 1

Steph: 1

Harden: 0


CP3 clearly is a complete outlier in the playoffs much as Doc rivers is in blowing leads.

i just dont see how Suns can blow the series.. they are just so much better than Mavs.i mean if they really find ways to blow the series, that is major blow to Paul's legacy.

[TroubleS0me]

lol u guys keep coming when he loses

[TroubleS0me]

ill admit he has been bad these past 2 games

[art_tatum]

lol u guys keep coming when he loses

And we will take a vacation when he is on

[GSP]

Another bad game for Cp3. Hes had 2 terrific quarters this series and been complete ASS CHEEKS otherwise

this was a pivotal game 5 with the series tied but luckily his teammates bailed him out. Book, Ayton, Bridges, Biyombo, Cam Johnson, Shamet all balled..............now that Phoenix has the 3-2 lead with less pressure for Cp3 look to see him have a great game 6 and go back to being overrated and called "Point God" like he hasnt been dog doo for 90% of this series

[TroubleS0me]

Another bad game for Cp3. Hes had 2 terrific quarters this series and been complete ASS CHEEKS otherwise

this was a pivotal game 5 with the series tied but luckily his teammates bailed him out. Book, Ayton, Bridges, Biyombo, Cam Johnson, Shamet all balled..............now that Phoenix has the 3-2 lead with less pressure for Cp3 look to see him have a great game 6 and go back to being overrated and called "Point God" like he hasnt been dog doo for 90% of this series

happens to all greats

[Lost92Bricks]

Another bad game for Cp3. Hes had 2 terrific quarters this series and been complete ASS CHEEKS otherwise

this was a pivotal game 5 with the series tied but luckily his teammates bailed him out. Book, Ayton, Bridges, Biyombo, Cam Johnson, Shamet all balled..............now that Phoenix has the 3-2 lead with less pressure for Cp3 look to see him have a great game 6 and go back to being overrated and called "Point God" like he hasnt been dog doo for 90% of this series

Who cares, he won the game.

Sometimes you need your teammates to carry you. I wish it happened more in his early years.