RealGM Top 100 List #10

[34Dayz]

Just to interject I consider the teams Lebron had "garbage" not slightly better garbage.

Perhaps we should discuss this.

[Vinsanity420]

These threads would be much better without the "Who's supporting cast was better?" nonsense.

[colts18]

Just to interject I consider the teams Lebron had "garbage" not slightly better garbage.

Perhaps we should discuss this.

I look at in tiers:

Garbage: 2007 KG, 04-05 LeBron, 2011 Cavs and T-Wolves
Slightly better garbage: 06-08 LeBron, 06-07 Kobe, 05-06 KG
Below average: KG 99-02, Dirk 11, 09-10 LeBron, 94 Hakeem, Duncan
Average: 95 Hakeem, 95 Shaq, 97-98 Malone, 06 Dirk, 09 Howard
Pretty good: 98 MJ, 00-01 Shaq, 06 Wade (not in the finals though)
Real good: 09-10 Kobe, 91-93 MJ, 02 Shaq, 08 KG/Pierce
Great: 80-88 Bird, 96-97 MJ, 80-87 Magic

[34Dayz]

lol.. too much info id take me awhile to make tiers of my own but alrite.

[Doctor MJ]

Just to interject I consider the teams Lebron had "garbage" not slightly better garbage.

Perhaps we should discuss this.

I look at in tiers:

Garbage: 2007 KG, 04-05 LeBron, 2011 Cavs and T-Wolves
Slightly better garbage: 06-08 LeBron, 06-07 Kobe, 05-06 KG
Below average: KG 99-02, Dirk 11, 09-10 LeBron, 94 Hakeem, Duncan
Average: 95 Hakeem, 95 Shaq, 97-98 Malone, 06 Dirk, 09 Howard
Pretty good: 98 MJ, 00-01 Shaq, 06 Wade (not in the finals though)
Real good: 09-10 Kobe, 91-93 MJ, 02 Shaq, 08 KG/Pierce
Great: 80-88 Bird, 96-97 MJ, 80-87 Magic

And I look at that in tears.

[Dr Positivity]

Below average: KG 99-02, Dirk 11, 09-10 LeBron, 94 Hakeem, Duncan
Average: 95 Hakeem, 95 Shaq, 97-98 Malone, 06 Dirk, 09 Howard
Pretty good: 98 MJ, 00-01 Shaq, 06 Wade (not in the finals though)
Real good: 09-10 Kobe, 91-93 MJ, 02 Shaq, 08 KG/Pierce

Vastly disagree with these labels. Of the guys you listed I'd say

Average: KG 99-02, 09 Lebron
Good: 06 Dirk, 10 LeBron, 94 Hakeem, 03 Duncan, 09 Howard
Very good: 95 Hakeem, 97-98 Malone, 06 Wade, 11 Dirk
Fantastic: 98 MJ, 95 Shaq, 00-02 Shaq, 09-10 Kobe, 08 KG

[An Unbiased Fan]

I'm still trying to figure out how KG is better than DRob. KM, KG, DRob, all have big dropoffs in the playoffs, but Malone has the better overall number of elite years and was the better regular season player, while DRob was the better defensive anchor, and impact player. The one argument I have heard in favor of KG over DRob is longevity, but honestly, I think if we matched up the 2 players year by year, DRob would win out.

In 1989, the Spurs went 21-61, and was -7.45 SRS.

In 1990, they get DRob, and go 56-26, and was 3.58 SRS. That's a monster turnaround. And he didn't add a Pierce, Allen, and Rondo to the roster either.

From 1990-96, he got 3.081 MVP shares(more than KG's entire career), and was at least Top 6 every year, including his rookie season. He got 4 All-nBA/All-D 1st teams in the toughest era for centers, along with a MVp, and DPOY. The SPurs had a Top 5 DRtg 5 times in that period, including 2 #1 ranks. To compare, KG never led Minny to a Top 5 DRtg, in fact, MOST of his Minny years, they had a DRtg at #15 or worse.

In 1997, DRob was hurt, and the Spurs went from 59-23(5.97 SRS) to 20-62(7.93 SRS)

In 1998, DRob came back with a rookie TD, and helped anchor a 2 time champion Spurs team.

So I ask again, what's KG's case over DRob? DRob is the superior scorer, and his impact on defense would appear to be greater since he was a true defensive anchor. Rebounding is comparable too. DRob just seems to be the better bigman.

[colts18]

Below average: KG 99-02, Dirk 11, 09-10 LeBron, 94 Hakeem, Duncan
Average: 95 Hakeem, 95 Shaq, 97-98 Malone, 06 Dirk, 09 Howard
Pretty good: 98 MJ, 00-01 Shaq, 06 Wade (not in the finals though)
Real good: 09-10 Kobe, 91-93 MJ, 02 Shaq, 08 KG/Pierce

Vastly disagree with these labels. Of the guys you listed I'd say

Average: KG 99-02, 09 Lebron
Good: 06 Dirk, 10 LeBron, 94 Hakeem, 03 Duncan, 09 Howard
Very good: 95 Hakeem, 97-98 Malone, 06 Wade, 11 Dirk
Fantastic: 98 MJ, 95 Shaq, 00-02 Shaq, 09-10 Kobe, 08 KG

I think the 09 cast was better than 10 for LeBron. If you think that, then must believe that 09 LeBron is significantly better than 10 LeBron.

I don't think that Dirk's 2011 cast is better than 06. He had a better Jason Terry, better PG, Stackhouse and Howard were better perimeter options, Dampier was around Chandler's level. I certainly don't think that Dirk's 11 cast is any better than say LeBron's 2010 cast or KG's 99-02 casts.

[colts18]

I'm still trying to figure ur how KG is better than DRob. KM, KG, DRob, all have big dropoffs in the playoffs, but Malone has the better overall number of elite years and was the better regular season player, while DRob was the better defensive anchor, and impact player. The one argument I have heard in favor of KG over DRob is longevity, but honestly, I think if we matched up the 2 players year by year, DRob would win out.

In 1989, the Spurs went 21-61, and was -7.45 SRS.

In 1990, they get DRob, and go 56-26, and was 3.58 SRS. That's a monster turnaround. And he didn't add a Pierce, Allen, and Rondo to the roster either.

From 1990-96, he got 3.081 MVP shares(more than KG's entire career), and was at least Top 6 every year, including his rookie season. He got 4 All-nBA/All-D 1st teams in the toughest era for centers, along with a MVp, and DPOY. The SPurs had a Top 5 DRtg 5 times in that period, including 2 #1 ranks. To compare, KG never led Minny to a Top 5 DRtg, in fact, MOST of his Minny years, they had a DRtg at #15 or worse.

In 1997, DRob was hurt, and the Spurs went from 59-23(5.97 SRS) to 20-62(7.93 SRS)

In 1998, DRob came back with a rookie TD, and helped anchor a 2 time champion Spurs team.

So I ask again, what's KG's case over DRob? DRob is the superior scorer, and his impact on defense would appear to be greater since he was a true defensive anchor. Rebounding is comparable too. DRob just seems to be the better bigman.

Here is my Malone vs. KG case.

Here are there numbers through age 34:
Malone: 26.2 PPG, 10.7 Reb, .583 TS%, 3.3 Ast, 24.1 PER, .207 WS/48
Garnett: 19.5 PPG, 10.7 Reb, .549 TS%, 4.1 Ast, 23.5 PER, .191 WS/48

Playoffs:
Malone: 26.9 PPG, 11.4 Reb, 2.9 Ast, .532 TS%, 22.3 PER, .154 WS/48
Garnett: 19.6 PPG, 11.1 Reb, 3.8 Ast, .519 TS%, 21.7 PER, .151 WS/48

Malone had a few solid years after this including an MVP season. KG is already declining rapidly.

All-NBA:
Malone: 14 All-NBA (11 first team)
Garnett: 9 All-NBA (4 first team)

MVP:
Malone: 2 MVP, 14 top 10, 9 Top 5, 5 Top 3
Garnett: 1 MVP, 7 Top 10, 5 Top 5, 4 Top 3

Head to Head:
Malone: 24.5 PPG, 8.8 Reb, 4.1 AST, 51.7 FG%
Garnett: 19.3 PPG, 10.0 Reb, 3.6 AST, 46.8 FG%

NBA Finals:
Malone- 24.4 PPG, 10.4 Reb, 3.7 AST, 47.3 FG%, .517 TS%
Garnett- 16.6 PPG, 9.0 Reb, 3.0 AST, 46.6 FG%, .509 TS%

You can't use the age excuse because Malone went to the Finals in his age 33 and 34 season while KG went in his 31 and 33. Malone did this while being guarded by one of the best defenders in history. Pau Gasol is no Dennis Rodman. Malone drew 2.2x more FT than KG in 1 less game.

One of the reasons I have Malone ahead is because of the significant offensive advantage. Big part is FT. Malone drew about 2x more FT than KG does. Not only does he rack up FT, but he forces his opponent into the penalty early helping his teammates out. All the KG supporter fail to mention his embarrassing track record at drawing FT.

[34Dayz]

No way Shaqs 95 cast is "Fantastic" its average at best and definitely worse then what Hakeem had in 95.

[therealbig3]

Well, looking at Malone's roster throughout his career (although it doesn't replace actually watching, I understand), he had some decent scorers other than himself outside of 94-98. This is what it looks like in the playoffs:

88: 3 other double-digit scorers, including Thurl Bailey at 20 ppg, and Stockton averaging 15/14
89: 3 other double-digit scorers, including Thurl Bailey at 20 ppg, and Stockton averaging 17/14
90: 2 other double-digit scorers, including Thurl Bailey at 14 ppg, and Stockton averaging 17/15
91: 3 other double-digit scorers, including Jeff Malone at 19 ppg, and Stockton averaging 17/14
92: 3 other double-digit scorers, including Jeff Malone at 20 ppg, and Stockton averaging 16/14
93: 3 other double-digit scorers, including Jeff Malone at 18 ppg, and Stockton averaging 15/12

Now, I don't know much about Jeff Malone and Bailey, but it seems like they were decent scorers, and Stockton gets underrated when people say he couldn't create offense for himself. He's considered one of the best shooters of all time, and as you can see, he was good for 15+ ppg, and a ton of assists. He could create for others at the very least, and Malone was definitely a beneficiary of that.

And it certainly doesn't look like Kobe had that much more offensive talent around him: Gasol, yes, Odom, yes, but who else? Bynum wasn't even a valuable contributor until the last two seasons. Fisher and Artest/Ariza were nothing more than spot-up jump shooters who relied on someone else, namely Kobe, to create for them.

And Odom and Gasol are notorious for playing too passive and not playing up to their potential.

And what about Malone vs KG? You say Malone's efficiency suffered because he wasn't as good as Hakeem, and Robinson was worse, but it's widely known that KG's best attribute isn't volume scoring. And yet, he was forced to be the only legit scoring option for the Wolves pretty much his entire career, and his efficiency didn't drop by as much as Malone's did. And KG's supporting talent was worse than Malone's. Malone's most valuable attribute was volume scoring, and if his suffered more than KG's, to actually drop to a level that wasn't THAT much better than KG's, and he already is inferior in terms of passing, rebounding, and defense, how exactly does he rank over KG? Because of 3 extra seasons?

[fatal9]

In 1989, the Spurs went 21-61, and was -7.45 SRS.

In 1990, they get DRob, and go 56-26, and was 3.58 SRS. That's a monster turnaround. And he didn't add a Pierce, Allen, and Rondo to the roster either.

In D-Rob's rookie year they also added Terry Cummings (22/8 player), made a mid-season trade for Rod Strickland (14/8 PG), drafted Sean Elliott amongst many other roster moves. Out of the top 12 players who played the most minutes on '89 Spurs vs. '90 Spurs, only THREE were the same (Willie Anderson, Maxwell and Brickowski). The rosters aren't even comparable at all and changed just as much as the Celtics one did.

[An Unbiased Fan]

In 1989, the Spurs went 21-61, and was -7.45 SRS.

In 1990, they get DRob, and go 56-26, and was 3.58 SRS. That's a monster turnaround. And he didn't add a Pierce, Allen, and Rondo to the roster either.

In D-Rob's rookie year they also added Terry Cummings (22/8 player), made a mid-season trade for Rod Strickland (14/8 PG), drafted Sean Elliott amongst many other roster moves. Out of the top 12 players who played the most minutes on '89 Spurs vs. '90 Spurs, only THREE were the same (Willie Anderson, Maxwell and Brickowski). The rosters aren't even comparable at all and changed just as much as the Celtics one did.

Those are great points. I was really just drawing parrallels between the SA turnaround, and the 08' Boston turnaround. Cummings/Rod/Elliot aren't quite the same as Piece/Allen/Rondo.

[shawngoat23]

I'm still trying to figure out how KG is better than DRob. KM, KG, DRob, all have big dropoffs in the playoffs, but Malone has the better overall number of elite years and was the better regular season player, while DRob was the better defensive anchor, and impact player. The one argument I have heard in favor of KG over DRob is longevity, but honestly, I think if we matched up the 2 players year by year, DRob would win out.

In 1989, the Spurs went 21-61, and was -7.45 SRS.

In 1990, they get DRob, and go 56-26, and was 3.58 SRS. That's a monster turnaround. And he didn't add a Pierce, Allen, and Rondo to the roster either.

From 1990-96, he got 3.081 MVP shares(more than KG's entire career), and was at least Top 6 every year, including his rookie season. He got 4 All-nBA/All-D 1st teams in the toughest era for centers, along with a MVp, and DPOY. The SPurs had a Top 5 DRtg 5 times in that period, including 2 #1 ranks. To compare, KG never led Minny to a Top 5 DRtg, in fact, MOST of his Minny years, they had a DRtg at #15 or worse.

In 1997, DRob was hurt, and the Spurs went from 59-23(5.97 SRS) to 20-62(7.93 SRS)

In 1998, DRob came back with a rookie TD, and helped anchor a 2 time champion Spurs team.

So I ask again, what's KG's case over DRob? DRob is the superior scorer, and his impact on defense would appear to be greater since he was a true defensive anchor. Rebounding is comparable too. DRob just seems to be the better bigman.

I agree with Unbiased Fan here. Garnett has a significant advantage as a passer and has a ring. I'd be willing to consider rebounding/defense a push--both were excellent. But Robinson was a much better scorer. Neither were known for big playoff performances (in general). Why is Garnett already getting votes, when Robinson is just about to get nominated?

[NO-KG-AI]

"You can't use the age excuse".

Lmao, KG came into the league out of HS, he's a lot older 35.

The fact that their offensive numbers and advanced box score numbers are close at the same age makes this laughable, considering Garnett is an all time great defender, and didn't have a HOF PG and HOF coach every single season of his career.

Either way, Doctor J would have been my number 10.

[ElGee]

I'm still trying to figure out how KG is better than DRob. KM, KG, DRob, all have big dropoffs in the playoffs, but Malone has the better overall number of elite years and was the better regular season player, while DRob was the better defensive anchor, and impact player. The one argument I have heard in favor of KG over DRob is longevity, but honestly, I think if we matched up the 2 players year by year, DRob would win out.

In 1989, the Spurs went 21-61, and was -7.45 SRS.

In 1990, they get DRob, and go 56-26, and was 3.58 SRS. That's a monster turnaround. And he didn't add a Pierce, Allen, and Rondo to the roster either.

From 1990-96, he got 3.081 MVP shares(more than KG's entire career), and was at least Top 6 every year, including his rookie season. He got 4 All-nBA/All-D 1st teams in the toughest era for centers, along with a MVp, and DPOY. The SPurs had a Top 5 DRtg 5 times in that period, including 2 #1 ranks. To compare, KG never led Minny to a Top 5 DRtg, in fact, MOST of his Minny years, they had a DRtg at #15 or worse.

In 1997, DRob was hurt, and the Spurs went from 59-23(5.97 SRS) to 20-62(7.93 SRS)

In 1998, DRob came back with a rookie TD, and helped anchor a 2 time champion Spurs team.

So I ask again, what's KG's case over DRob? DRob is the superior scorer, and his impact on defense would appear to be greater since he was a true defensive anchor. Rebounding is comparable too. DRob just seems to be the better bigman.

I agree with Unbiased Fan here. Garnett has a significant advantage as a passer and has a ring. I'd be willing to consider rebounding/defense a push--both were excellent. But Robinson was a much better scorer. Neither were known for big playoff performances (in general). Why is Garnett already getting votes, when Robinson is just about to get nominated?

You guys really need to stop thinking about offense as a summation of components. The gist of offensive success in basketball is how much pressure an individual can put on a defense -- it doesn't matter *how* he does it, just that he does it. It could be drawing fouls. Driving. Always making great passes. Whatever. But elevating the 5-man unit as a whole is what makes an offensive player's worth.

The greatest offensive player could never score. Think about that.

[NO-KG-AI]

I'm still trying to figure out how KG is better than DRob. KM, KG, DRob, all have big dropoffs in the playoffs, but Malone has the better overall number of elite years and was the better regular season player, while DRob was the better defensive anchor, and impact player. The one argument I have heard in favor of KG over DRob is longevity, but honestly, I think if we matched up the 2 players year by year, DRob would win out.

In 1989, the Spurs went 21-61, and was -7.45 SRS.

In 1990, they get DRob, and go 56-26, and was 3.58 SRS. That's a monster turnaround. And he didn't add a Pierce, Allen, and Rondo to the roster either.

From 1990-96, he got 3.081 MVP shares(more than KG's entire career), and was at least Top 6 every year, including his rookie season. He got 4 All-nBA/All-D 1st teams in the toughest era for centers, along with a MVp, and DPOY. The SPurs had a Top 5 DRtg 5 times in that period, including 2 #1 ranks. To compare, KG never led Minny to a Top 5 DRtg, in fact, MOST of his Minny years, they had a DRtg at #15 or worse.

In 1997, DRob was hurt, and the Spurs went from 59-23(5.97 SRS) to 20-62(7.93 SRS)

In 1998, DRob came back with a rookie TD, and helped anchor a 2 time champion Spurs team.

So I ask again, what's KG's case over DRob? DRob is the superior scorer, and his impact on defense would appear to be greater since he was a true defensive anchor. Rebounding is comparable too. DRob just seems to be the better bigman.

I agree with Unbiased Fan here. Garnett has a significant advantage as a passer and has a ring. I'd be willing to consider rebounding/defense a push--both were excellent. But Robinson was a much better scorer. Neither were known for big playoff performances (in general). Why is Garnett already getting votes, when Robinson is just about to get nominated?

Garnett lead the league in rebounding for 4 straight years, and his rebounding and scoring numbers didn't drop across the board like Robinson's did in the playoffs, they went up.

Garnett gets knocked because he doesn't shoot 50%, but his points were almost always up, that's why his playoff PPG is higher than his regular season PPG, and when you look at their post season numbers from about 22-31(taking out KG's very young small forward years, and Robinson's injury seasons) Robinson holds like a +2 ppg lead, but KG has rebounding and a significant passing edge, and he never had the catastrophic meltdowns Robinson did, and he had plenty more big time moments, and times where he was the go to scorer and finished series off, and capped it with a title.

Robinson outscored his regular season numbers just once. Hell he averaged more points over those 7 years combined than he ever scored in a single playoffs.

Garnett wasn't a great scorer, but he never had the collapses Robinson did, and even his low scoring years came with much bigger lifts in other areas (18.7 rebounds one year, 15.7, 14.6, all numbers Robinson never hit, or 8.8 assists, or 5 more years over Robinson's highest assist total).

That, and Garnett was just a better player if you needed a basket down the stretch, and was a better foul shooter.

TLDR; KG's numbers go up, D-Rob's go down, even if both sacrifice some efficiency(D-Rob's drop was larger)

[pancakes3]

You guys really need to stop thinking about offense as a summation of components. The gist of offensive success in basketball is how much pressure an individual can put on a defense -- it doesn't matter *how* he does it, just that he does it. It could be drawing fouls. Driving. Always making great passes. Whatever. But elevating the 5-man unit as a whole is what makes an offensive player's worth.

The greatest offensive player could never score. Think about that.

i'll agree to that if everyone else is prepared to drop the pretenses of "player A's scoring went up in the PS whereas player B's scoring went down..." being a recurring and valid argument.

[ElGee]

ElGee pretty much took a hammer and smashed the case of Kevin Garnett as an elite all-time player. When comparing him to the elites he fails miserably. He is the worst in bad categories, last place in good categories, and certainly doesn't have a case against a guy like Duncan and marginal one at best against Malone.

When did I do this??

I actually think Duncan and KG are incredibly close, and think KG's peak is clearly above Malone's.

Garnett, like Larry Bird, is very much a player I think impacts the game in ways well beyond the box score. He's quite clearly one of the greatest all-around/most versatile players in NBA history. He can score, on the block, on his own, or from the mid post. He can pass. He can play pick and pop. He can play multiple positions. He can play in multiple systems. I assume you are referring to his statistical changes...

Well, he actually increases his PS scoring a fair deal. His TS% across his prime years drops 2.7% more than "expected." As is always the case, you have to judge how much of that is defenses keying on him/teammates and context vs. his own shortcomings. I think it's mostly the former -- I was always *very* impressed with Kevin Garnett in the PS, even if he missed an extra shot or two. (Do people who cite TS% so much even grasp what these difference in % mean?)

As for scoring load, Garnett, never one of the GOAT scorers, carried the team a fair deal. I believe it was UAF who referenced pts%. This can be a very instructional figure. After all, 1999-2004 was the nadir of NBA scoring in the 3-point era. Here are KG's pts% in the PS w/apg in parents:
Garnett
1999 27.1% (3.8)
2000 22.0% (8.8)
2001 25.6% (4.3)
2002 23.5% (5.0)
2003 26.9% (5.2)
2004 26.4% (5.1)
--
By comparison, Robinson's are:
1990 20.8% (2.3)
1991 23.9% (2.0)
1993 22.9% (4.0)
1994 22.7% (3.5)
1995 25.7% (3.1)
1996 25.1% (2.4)

So just from those statistics, you get the picture of which guy is doing more for his team on offense. The one year (2000) KG scores less of his teams points, his assists spike. DRob has a relatively low/consistent share of the scoring load along with moderate assists contributions. IMO, this is a reflection of what one sees when watching them -- KG is all over the place basically trying to do everything (and we know he is unselfish to a fault, that IS something I have statistically suggested) whereas DRob is taking what comes to him and failing at that. Which is what always seems to happen when David Robinson plays good defenses (to a lesser extent at his peak, say in 1995).

THAT is the crux of the difference between these two. Among comparable modern players, no one has more bad shooting games in the PS than David Robinson. http://www.backpicks.com/2011/05/18/hig ... on-part-i/

What I find amazing about this is that it has little effect on his team whether he shoots one way or the other. Why? Because David Robinson's scoring wasn't that valuable to those teams. He rarely ever shot the ball a lot. And his team's performance varied with his other box score metrics, not his shooting numbers. Cummings, Elliot, Anderson and Rod Strickland did a lot on their own on offense. In 95, Avery, Del Negro and co. were decent too...although I think Robinson was better then as well.

And then there's the other side of the ball, in which you watch KG stripping PG's on the inbound pass and doing everything he can (look at the bounding numbers!) and marvel, while at times you ask yourself "where is David Robinson and why is he jumping around like a decapitated chicken?"

That's basically the different in peak between these two players. I don't really find it close.

[ThaRegul8r]

Just wanted to post some things on Dr. J's D...

Erving Thinking Defense, But Offense Still Shows

Twenty-five points, 15 rebounds and six assists.

Julius Erving of the New York Nets accomplished all of this in 39 minutes – and he wasn’t even trying to be an offensive threat.

“I tried to get more involved in the defense,” said Erving after leading the Nets to a 120-110 American Basketball Association victory over the Spirits of St. Louis Wednesday night.

Erving also blocked five shots and made a steal, just to keep his hand in the action at both ends of the court.

“The Spirits slowed down the pace,” Erving said, “and they put the crowd to sleep. But they weren’t going to do the same thing to me. I didn’t want to be flat, so I played a lot of roving defense — you know, tried to block shots and anticipate passes.”
(Kentucky New Era, Feb 4, 1976)

Blazers Died Under Dr. J’s Scalpel

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — It’s like watching a Ted Williams with the bat, an O.J. Simpson run a football, a Bobby Orr on skates. He’s the ultimate in his sport of basketball. He is Julius Erving, better known to an admiring public as Dr. J.

Dr. J orchestrates on the court like Eugene Ormandy with the Philadelphia Orchestra. He handles the basketball like a Leonard Bernstein at the piano. He’s a Picasso on a wooden floor, a mixture of sinew, grace, quickness and perception.

A sellout crowd of 18,276 watched this magician of basketball spill out his limitless bag of tricks Sunday in leading the Philadelphia 76ers to a 107-101 triumph over the Portland Trail Blazers in the first game of the National Basketball Association’s best-of-seven championship series.

If the victory proved anything, it was that Portland will have to find a way to defense Dr. J if the Blazers hope to survive. It wasn’t only that he scored 33 points, including 14 of 24 from the field and five of five at the foul line, or that he handed out four assists, stole the ball three times and rebounded five. It was the way he did it.

From the time that Erving, off the opening tap, swooped to the basket for a paralyzing dunk, he controlled the tempo of a very bruising confrontation between these playoff survivors. He was reminded of the one remark that one fan made entering the Spectrum.

“The 76ers can’t lose this series. Dr. J won’t let them,” the fan said.

Erving became the $6 million man when the 76ers gave the New York Nets a reported $2.5 million for him last fall and signed the Doc to an estimated $5.3 million contract for five years. But it’s not money, it’s pride that is driving him in these playoffs.

Someone asked him Sunday if in the back of his mind proving that the 76ers were the best basketball team in the world isn’t more important than his $23,000 of the winner’s pool.

“It’s in the front of my mind, not the back of my mind,” Erving replied. “I don’t think that I (personally) have to prove anything to anyone.”

Erving talked about the game as a businessman discusses an important deal—calmly, objectively, impassively.

“I just saw some daylight and I went to that daylight,” he explained to the mob of reporters surrounding him in the sweatbox of a dressing room. “I was trying to make the defense react to that. Personally, I went in spurts. I had good spurts and then cooled off.

“But I was trying to be consistent, trying to be a factor in scoring, on defense and passing. I was trying to maintain a total consciousness of how I could do the best for my team. I felt I had a chance today (Sunday) to show all my skills,” said Erving in his typical low speaking voice.

Erving did call on a lot of his skills. It’s doubtful if he used them all, because everytime you see this athlete he shows you something you’ve never seen before.

Against the Blazers, he drove for dunks, popped from outside, banked shots from the side. He did his Alley Oop number with Doug Collins, whereby he stands alongside the basket and waits for a high looping pass from Collins. The ball, and Erving leaping high like a standing high jumper, arrive above the rim at the same time. He simply pushes it through.

Then, he did his Superman routine in which he takes off from the foul line, literally flies 15 feet through the air to the basket holding the ball in one hand, finally whipping it through the hoop.

Alley Oop or Superman, the crowd stands and shakes the building with its roar of approval.

And when he wasn’t scoring, Erving harrassed the Blazers on defense with his quick hands. He also threw pin-point passes to teammates who converted them into field goals. He kept the Blazers’ defense off balance by forcing them to double team him, which opened options for other 76ers.
(The Victoria Advocate, May 24, 1977)

Defense Keeps Sixers Alive

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — The Philadelphia 76ers talked about dreams and positive thinking and tempo and crowd encouragement but they are still in the National Basketball Association playoffs today because of an unbending defense.

The 76ers, often referred to as the best team money can buy, stuck with their money players Wednesday night and it paid off with a 107-94 victory over the Washington Bullets.

Philadelphia got the job done with Julius “Dr. J” Erving, Doug Collins, Caldwell Jones and Henry Bibby, not only putting the ball in the hoop, but stripping the Bullets of their high scoring offense.

[…]

Collins and Erving led the 76ers’ fastbreak offense in staving off elimination from the playoffs. And 7-foot-1 center Caldwell Jones and Erving did the defensive jobs on the Bullets’ two big guns, Elvin Hayes and Bob Dandridge.

Collins and Erving each scored 24 points. Jones shut down Hayes, who had averaged 26.3 in the first four games, with just four field goals. Hayes got but 13 shots. And Erving turned on his all his court magic to bottle Dandridge with just 12 points. Dandridge had been averaging 24.3 in the series.

Coach Billy Cunningham of the 76ers said the name of the victory was defense.

“We communicated beautifully on defense and that’s where it all stems from,” Cunningham said. “The offense was generated by the defense. And we’re going to do the same thing Friday.”
(Reading Eagle, May 11, 1978)

Doc’s Defense Grounds Celts’ High-Flying Bird

BOSTON (AP) — Julius Erving is averaging 19.8 points per game in Philadelphia’s playoff series against the Boston Celtics, and while that’s nearly five below his regular-season average, 76ers Coach Billy Cunningham couldn’t be happier about Dr. J’s play.

Erving’s ability to get his teammates involved in the offense and his success in harassing Celtics star Larry Bird on defense have helped the 76ers move to a 3-1 lead over Boston in their National Basketball Association Eastern Conference showdown.

The 76ers, who took the homecourt advantage away from the Celtics by winning the opener 105-104 last Tuesday, can wrap up the best-of-seven conference final with another victory at Boston Garden tonight. If the Celtics win, the series shifts back to Philadelphia for Game 6 Friday night.

So far the big move in the series has been Cunningham’s decision, after watching Bird score 67 points in the first two games, to switch the assignment of guarding Boston’s 6-foot-9 forward from 7-footer Caldwell Jones to the 6-7 Erving. While Jones is noted for his defensive prowess and Erving is not, Cunningham said he never hesitated about making the change.

“Larry was shooting the ball from so far out on the court,” Cunningham explained, “I felt Caldwell was not able to guard him and also do the job on the defensive boards. So what choice did I have? I had to put Erving on him.”

The move couldn’t have worked better. Erving’s defense has helped limit Bird to 40 points and kept him from being a dominant force in either of the last two games, while Jones’ rebounding and shot-blocking have enabled the 76ers to cope with Boston’s strong inside game. And the bottom line is that Philadelphia won both games to assume a commanding position in this series — only three teams in NBA history (Boston in 1968, Los Angeles in 1970 and Washington in 1979) have come back from 3-1 deficits to win playoff series.

Although having to work so hard on the defensive end may have cut into Erving’s point production, Cunningham says it’s a worthwhile tradeoff.
(Reading Eagle, Apr 29, 1981)

Julius Erving, once considered a defensive liability, totally controlled Jamaal Wilkes, forcing the Lakers' secret weapon to shoot off-balance jumpers.
(Jun 2, 1983)

Over the years, millions of fans have watched Julius Erving's electrifying offense lift the 76ers to victory after victory. But you could probably count on one hand the number of people who have looked to the Doctor for his defense. And yet, yesterday afternoon, in front of 20,124 screaming, hostile fans at the Pontiac Silverdome and millions more watching on national television, Erving made two superb defensive plays to protect a slim lead and give the Sixers a 109-108 victory over the Detroit Pistons.
(Dec 26, 1984)

From APBRmetrics:

Julius Erving's D?

I noticed that he averaged 1.5spg and 1.8bpg in his 11 seasons in the NBA (which started at age 26, and probably hurt his career stats overall).

Was he a better defender than given credit for? Maybe not a man to man lock up type, but an excellent team defender/solid man defender at worst?

How much of Julius stats reflect his actual defensive ability and value to a team? It seems in the 1983 playoffs he wasn't really any better than Maurice Cheeks on offense, but his defensive numbers were very good. I am aware that Cheeks was on ALL-defensive teams, but perhaps Julius was even more valuable as a team defender for that 83 title team?
(Nikos. “Julis Erving’s D?” APBRmetrics. 14 Jul 2005. http://sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/vi ... .php?t=291)

I noticed that he (Erving) averaged 1.5 spg and 1.8 bpg in his 11 seasons in the NBA (which started at age 26, and probably hurt his career stats overall).

Was he a better defender than given credit for? Maybe not a man to man lock up type, but an excellent team defender/solid man defender at worst?

How much of Julius stats reflect his actual defensive ability and value to a team?

from 76-77 to 83-84, erving's first 8 seasons in the nba (but his 6th thru 13th seasons as a pro), he had 2192 ST+BS, 2nd behind jabbar amongst all players during that time. that's averaging 148 ST and 126 BS each season, and he played only 35 min/g over those 8 seasons...

i don't know what he's been "...given credit for..." but i've always thought of julius erving as a better than average man to man defender and an excellent team defender. that many great defensive-type impact plays (ST and BS) make up for many defensive woes - not that he had many....

and that many ST and BS are very valuable to a team. from 78-79 to 83-84 as a member of the 76ers bobby jones got almost as many ST+BS as erving did, and here are how the 76ers ranked in defensive points per possession allowed in the late 70s/early 80s:

77-78 7th
78-79 2nd
79-80 2nd
80-81 2nd
81-82 8th
82-83 5th
83-84 4th

during these 7 seasons the 76ers won 69% of their regular season games, the best overall winning percentage for the regular season of all teams during that stretch...
(bchaikin. “Re: Julis Erving’s D?” APBRmetrics. 14 Jul 2005. http://sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/vi ... .php?t=291)

i don't know what he's been "...given credit for..." but i've always thought of julius erving as a better than average man to man defender and an excellent team defender. that many great defensive-type impact plays (ST and BS) make up for many defensive woes - not that he had many....

I'll second that emotion. The blocks and steals came from sheer athleticism, but Doc was a smart and tenacious defender, down on the block or out on the perimeter. Bobby Jones usually got the tougher matchup, but both he and Doc were the key to the great defense of those 76er teams.
(moneyp. “Re: Julis Erving’s D?” APBRmetrics. 15 Jul 2005. http://sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/vi ... .php?t=291)