2012-13 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

NinjaSheppard · Post #221 » by **NinjaSheppard** » Sun May 26, 2013 8:17 pm

KG finished above Chris Paul last season. Paul had a similar season this year to last year.

Kinda interested in seeing how Duncan's season is looked at this year as in a lot of ways it is similar to KG's season from last year.

Colbinii · Post #222 » by **Colbinii** » Sun May 26, 2013 11:36 pm

NinjaSheppard wrote:KG finished above Chris Paul last season. Paul had a similar season this year to last year.

Kinda interested in seeing how Duncan's season is looked at this year as in a lot of ways it is similar to KG's season from last year.

KG is a god on this board. Not trying to say he wasn't as good as Timmy, but he gets rated higher on this forum than any other one I have ever been on.

Post #223 » by **Doctor MJ** » Tue May 28, 2013 12:08 am

NinjaSheppard wrote:KG finished above Chris Paul last season. Paul had a similar season this year to last year.

Kinda interested in seeing how Duncan's season is looked at this year as in a lot of ways it is similar to KG's season from last year.

Funny you made me go back and really look about the results. So, umm, typo. This is what I wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:Our results...

Code: Select all
Player 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Points Share 1. LeBron James 18 0 0 0 0 180 1.000 2. Kevin Durant 0 16 2 0 0 122 0.678 3. Chris Paul 0 2 1 4 1 82 0.456 4. Kevin Garnett 0 0 3 5 3 33 0.183 5. Dirk Nowitzki 0 0 0 4 4 16 0.089 6. Kobe Bryant 0 0 1 1 1 9 0.050 7. Dwyane Wade 0 0 0 1 5 8 0.044 8. R. Westbrook 0 0 1 0 2 7 0.039 9. James Harden 0 0 0 1 0 3 0.017 9. Dwight Howard 0 0 0 1 0 3 0.017 9. Tony Parker 0 0 0 1 0 3 0.017 12. Kevin Love 0 0 0 0 1 1 0.006 12. Steve Nash 0 0 0 0 1 1 0.006

Congratulations to LeBron for becoming a member of the exclusive unanimous POY club.

I'll try to get updated historical totals up in the next few days, and hopefully we can get semi-sentient to update his project site.

Thanks guys!

Notice that I typed "1" instead of "11" for Paul's 3rd place vote. As a result the data doesn't add up and when sentient translated it to his website Paul got credited with only 32 points when it should have been 82 WAY ahead of Garnett.

Post #224 » by **Doctor MJ** » Tue May 28, 2013 12:21 am

Further on the question though, clearly we are in a very similar situation both years with a Big 3 and then everyone else. I don't know how it will play out. Don't even know how I'm leaning really.

To the Garnett/Duncan analogy here, the biggest thing getting in the way of that right now is that I think most of us are inclined to favor Tony Parker as the #1 on the Spurs this year, which would seem make it next to impossible for him to get on many ballots (How many people are going to have both Parker & Duncan in the 4th & 5th spots?)

As for, voting aside, whether Duncan should be getting equal love to Garnett to what Garnett did last year, it's certainly worthy of debate. What Garnett's had going for him among some of us in this crew is that he's the clear defensive star on a team winning with defense, and his RAPM data screams that if anything that understates his impact. With Boston fading people don't really feel like championing Garnett any more which moves him below Duncan, but that doesn't change the assessment of Duncan's role at this point in his career.

Is that grotesquely underrating Duncan? Well, remember that Garnett's argument is how the Celtics live & die without him. We've seen a lot of the Spurs without Duncan in recent years, and it's only reinforced the feeling that it seems like the Spurs don't have any keystone that the team can't thrive without other than Pop. As I say all of this though, when we split hairs along these lines, we have to know that sample size is small and interpretations have to remain open-minded.

ThaRegul8r · Post #225 » by **ThaRegul8r** » Tue May 28, 2013 12:30 am

NinjaSheppard wrote:Kinda interested in seeing how Duncan's season is looked at this year as in a lot of ways it is similar to KG's season from last year.

I'd actually been going over my notes and looking at Garnett 2011-12 as compared with Duncan 2012-13 so far, though the latter of course is still a work in progress.

B_Creamy · Post #226 » by **B_Creamy** » Tue May 28, 2013 1:19 am

Does anybody want to give the Parker over Duncan argument? I feel like I'm in a very small minority.

Post #227 » by **bondom34** » Tue May 28, 2013 4:33 am

B_Creamy wrote:Does anybody want to give the Parker over Duncan argument? I feel like I'm in a very small minority.

That game

Mutnt · Post #228 » by **Mutnt** » Tue May 28, 2013 9:50 am

I'm moving Parker into my top 3 for this year, pushing CP3 to #4. They weren't that much apart during the regular season anyway. I just can't no longer ignore the significance of Tony Parker for the Spurs success and his level of play (which is gradually rising). Even if the Spurs end up losing in the Finals and Parker has a subpar series, he's done enough in my book to edge out Paul.

Edit: Oh and Timmy rounds out my Top 5.

nunemouse · Post #229 » by **nunemouse** » Tue May 28, 2013 3:43 pm

My top 10 (playoffs a big factor):

Lebron
Durant
Paul
Parker
Duncan
Curry
Harden
Gasol
Melo
Wade

sp6r=underrated · Post #230 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Fri May 31, 2013 4:37 pm

Has Wade's performance in the post-season significantly impacted your view of his season?

sp6r=underrated · Post #231 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Fri May 31, 2013 4:43 pm

At this point numbers one through three are set and cannot be changed.

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Paul

colts18 · Post #232 » by **colts18** » Fri May 31, 2013 4:46 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:Has Wade's performance in the post-season significantly impacted your view of his season?

He might not even be top 10 for me. Westbrook has to be ranked ahead of him.

E-Balla · Post #233 » by **E-Balla** » Fri May 31, 2013 4:54 pm

colts18 wrote:
sp6r=underrated wrote:Has Wade's performance in the post-season significantly impacted your view of his season?

He might not even be top 10 for me. Westbrook has to be ranked ahead of him.

This. Wade was barely hanging on to my top 10 before the postseason as it was. Hard to see him in the top 10 now.

sp6r=underrated · Post #234 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Fri May 31, 2013 5:03 pm

GC Pantalones wrote:
colts18 wrote:
sp6r=underrated wrote:Has Wade's performance in the post-season significantly impacted your view of his season?

He might not even be top 10 for me. Westbrook has to be ranked ahead of him.

This. Wade was barely hanging on to my top 10 before the postseason as it was. Hard to see him in the top 10 now.

I really don't know how you can have a top 10 without Wade even if you weight the post-season heavily.

E-Balla · Post #235 » by **E-Balla** » Fri May 31, 2013 5:07 pm

Lebron
Durant
Melo
Paul
Tony
Timmy
Marc
Harden
Westbrook
Kobe

That's ten right there.

sp6r=underrated · Post #236 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Fri May 31, 2013 5:26 pm

Westbrook and Kobe are the two head scratchers for me. You're docking Wade for his post-season and you rank ahead of him two guys who were too injured to even play. Do you actually think they had better RS than Wade?

Kobe was maybe the worse defensive guard in the NBA.

colts18 · Post #237 » by **colts18** » Fri May 31, 2013 5:27 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:Westbrook and Kobe are the two head scratchers for me. You're docking Wade for his post-season and you rank ahead of him two guys who were too injured to even play. Do you actually think they had better RS than Wade?

Kobe was maybe the worse defensive guard in the NBA.

Westbrook's regular season was better than Wade. He lead a 9 SRS team. His value showed in the playoffs whereas the Heat are like 21-4 without Wade. Westbrook is valuable, Wade is not. The Heat probably still beat the Pacers if Wade never shows up (and he hasn't really shown up yet in the playoffs).

colts18 · Post #238 » by **colts18** » Fri May 31, 2013 5:46 pm

Combined RS and PS minutes:
Wade: 2849 Minutes
Westbrook: 2929 minutes
Kobe: 3013 Minutes

So despite Wade playing in the playoffs, he still hasn't surpassed Westbrook or Kobe in minutes

therealbig3 · Post #239 » by **therealbig3** » Fri May 31, 2013 6:40 pm

I think Curry is still in the mix for top 5.

The top 3 is already pretty set for most people, so just starting with 4 and 5:

4. Curry
5. Gasol

Surprised at how many people are on the Parker/Duncan bandwagon. Neither one has played all that great imo. They've been solid, but not top 5 worthy.

therealbig3 · Post #240 » by **therealbig3** » Fri May 31, 2013 6:42 pm

colts18 wrote:Combined RS and PS minutes:
Wade: 2849 Minutes
Westbrook: 2929 minutes
Kobe: 3013 Minutes

So despite Wade playing in the playoffs, he still hasn't surpassed Westbrook or Kobe in minutes

This is assuming that RS and PS minutes are equally important, which they're not. I'd take lower RS minutes + actually being able to play in the playoffs, easily.

And Wade has his own issues with regards to health and PS performance, but Westbrook and Kobe weren't even available for their teams...they're pretty much disqualified.