2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[Doctor MJ]

Read on Twitter

In other words, Mark Jackson will be the Lakers' next coach. Big yikes.

Also seeing reports that LeBron is pulling for this. I'm amazed.

I don't know if there's any living NBA coach I'd want to hire in my organization less than Jackson, and I can't imagine anyone thinking that Jackson would be able to actually solve basketball problems with superior creativity.

[Doctor MJ]

Sounds like the appalling way that the Lakers fired Vogel has already cost them any microscopic chance they had at Quin Snyder:

Snyder, who is known for having very good offensive sets and a solid defensive foundation, has led the Jazz to the playoffs for the sixth consecutive season. He was an assistant with the Lakers while on the staff of coach Mike Brown in 2011-2012. Not only is Snyder under contract with the Jazz for at least one more season, people not authorized to speak publicly on the matter said he has become less interested in the Lakers' job because of how the Vogel firing was handled.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/story/2022-04-11/lakers-coaching-candidates-insiders-guide-doc-rivers-nick-nurse

At this rate, the only takers they'll have are Doc and Mark Jackson. Pretty sure they would have been better off just keeping Vogel.

I find the Doc rumors fascinating given that he's still under contract in Philly for 3 more years.

Now, were I Morey, I'd absolutely jump at the chance to let him out of his contract and possibly even extort assets from the sucker who wants him, but it's pretty mind-blowing to me that people are even thinking "Doc would be the perfect guy to fix the locker room" given that the only reason he'd be available is if his current team - who hired him specifically to be "the perfect guy to fix the locker room" - has decided he wasn't that.

More broadly there's this issue where ever since the '07-08 Celtics, Doc's had this reputation for making egos happy together, and as far as I can tell, he's never once had any kind of success doing this. Doc thrives on no-talent teams excelling in getting them to the first round. Beyond that, the only serious locker room success he's associated with quite clearly came from Kevin Garnett stepping in and re-defining the Celtic culture that had previously all the pep of a flat tire.

Nevertheless, I can absolutely see the Lakers hiring Doc. If you can't change the players you have under contract, then your only hope is that you'll bring someone in who magically makes everyone happy, and while no one actually exists that can do this, Doc is the official go-to coach to hire when you're looking to delude yourself.

[Outside]

Regarding Luka's calf injury, it could happen to anyone, but I do wonder if his weight was a factor. Even though he has apparently played himself into shape during the season, he's still one very tall, bulky guy who has issues with conditioning and/or diet. I still don't know how he could go from the NBA season to the Olympics and then show up at camp after a few weeks in such poor shape. Or maybe all that has nothing to do with it.

I hope he can come back, but the worry is that calf injuries can linger and recur. Plus there's the specter of Durant's calf injury turning into an Achilles tear. This felt like the year that he'd finally make it out of the first round, and I was looking forward to the possibility of Dallas vs Phoenix in the second round. It's just the way things work out, but they would've been better off if the league hadn't rescinded his tech and he'd been suspended for that last, meaningless game.

[Outside]

I don't see why any top tier coach would want the Lakers job.

Mark Jackson would be such a soap opera move, on multiple levels. On the one hand, it seems like he can't possibly have gone all this time since the Warriors job without learning some lessons about all the things that he did wrong there, but on the other hand, he seems stubborn and set in his ways so he may do the exact same ludicrous stuff again. The disaster could be epic, even compared to this season.

[Doctor MJ]

Regarding Luka's calf injury, it could happen to anyone, but I do wonder if his weight was a factor. Even though he has apparently played himself into shape during the season, he's still one very tall, bulky guy who has issues with conditioning and/or diet. I still don't know how he could go from the NBA season to the Olympics and then show up at camp after a few weeks in such poor shape. Or maybe all that has nothing to do with it.

I have similar concerns.

I just can't shake this thought about both Luka and Zion: They seem to gain weight very easily. I don't mean this as any kind of character flow, but just as a statement about metabolism. I think both are going to quickly developing exceptionally good year-round habits if they want to have long, healthy careers.

Of the two, I'm less concerned with Luka though. He strikes me as someone who has a pretty well informed understanding of what he's going to need to do to be a professional athlete as he ages, in part because of his dad's career. He has to change his habits, but my guess is he probably will. Zion on the other hand, feels like someone who is operating with much less of a roadmap, and if he doesn't find the right mentors, it won't take much for him to ruin his body.

[Doctor MJ]

I don't see why any top tier coach would want the Lakers job.

Mark Jackson would be such a soap opera move, on multiple levels. On the one hand, it seems like he can't possibly have gone all this time since the Warriors job without learning some lessons about all the things that he did wrong there, but on the other hand, he seems stubborn and set in his ways so he may do the exact same ludicrous stuff again. The disaster could be epic, even compared to this season.

Yup. Both sides represent drama that no one competent should want to touch.

Re: more epic disaster than even this season. Maybe. It'll be more final if that's the direction things go. If next year goes badly, then LeBron's leaving in free agency will feel like a burial of the Laker franchise, and it may well be. They ain't goin' bankrupt or anything, but this was a franchise that looked absolutely terrible before LeBron showed up. If they end up back in that same boat again with no reason to think any subsequent superstar wants to join them, they are going to have to change how they do business.

[falcolombardi]

I don't see why any top tier coach would want the Lakers job.

Mark Jackson would be such a soap opera move, on multiple levels. On the one hand, it seems like he can't possibly have gone all this time since the Warriors job without learning some lessons about all the things that he did wrong there, but on the other hand, he seems stubborn and set in his ways so he may do the exact same ludicrous stuff again. The disaster could be epic, even compared to this season.

Yup. Both sides represent drama that no one competent should want to touch.

Re: more epic disaster than even this season. Maybe. It'll be more final if that's the direction things go. If next year goes badly, then LeBron's leaving in free agency will feel like a burial of the Laker franchise, and it may well be. They ain't goin' bankrupt or anything, but this was a franchise that looked absolutely terrible before LeBron showed up. If they end up back in that same boat again with no reason to think any subsequent superstar wants to join them, they are going to have to change how they do business.

lakers seem like one of those teams that is behind the times and doesnt want to modernize/clean up house

if they are not careful they will find themselves left behind and without lakers brand power being enough to save them (specially now that there are so many big market options for marquee free agents compared to before with clippers, miami, nets, etc)

[MartinToVaught]

Sounds like the appalling way that the Lakers fired Vogel has already cost them any microscopic chance they had at Quin Snyder:

Snyder, who is known for having very good offensive sets and a solid defensive foundation, has led the Jazz to the playoffs for the sixth consecutive season. He was an assistant with the Lakers while on the staff of coach Mike Brown in 2011-2012. Not only is Snyder under contract with the Jazz for at least one more season, people not authorized to speak publicly on the matter said he has become less interested in the Lakers' job because of how the Vogel firing was handled.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/story/2022-04-11/lakers-coaching-candidates-insiders-guide-doc-rivers-nick-nurse

At this rate, the only takers they'll have are Doc and Mark Jackson. Pretty sure they would have been better off just keeping Vogel.

I find the Doc rumors fascinating given that he's still under contract in Philly for 3 more years.

Now, were I Morey, I'd absolutely jump at the chance to let him out of his contract and possibly even extort assets from the sucker who wants him, but it's pretty mind-blowing to me that people are even thinking "Doc would be the perfect guy to fix the locker room" given that the only reason he'd be available is if his current team - who hired him specifically to be "the perfect guy to fix the locker room" - has decided he wasn't that.

More broadly there's this issue where ever since the '07-08 Celtics, Doc's had this reputation for making egos happy together, and as far as I can tell, he's never once had any kind of success doing this. Doc thrives on no-talent teams excelling in getting them to the first round. Beyond that, the only serious locker room success he's associated with quite clearly came from Kevin Garnett stepping in and re-defining the Celtic culture that had previously all the pep of a flat tire.

Nevertheless, I can absolutely see the Lakers hiring Doc. If you can't change the players you have under contract, then your only hope is that you'll bring someone in who magically makes everyone happy, and while no one actually exists that can do this, Doc is the official go-to coach to hire when you're looking to delude yourself.

I've been saying it for years. Doc's reputation as a players' coach/ego manager only exists because even his buddies in the national media can't praise his playbook or adjustments with a straight face, so they need something nice to say about him. He couldn't get along with T-Mac, allowed the Ray/Rondo drama to fester until Ray left for Miami, destroyed an already tense Lob City locker room by trading for his own son and then favoring him, played favorites again with Trez while blaming every loss on Zubac, coddled Ben Simmons all last season only to throw him under the bus after the Hawks series, and has now settled on Harden and Paul Reed as his scapegoats for this year. Any team that brings him in thinking he can fix their locker room is delusional. There is nothing Doc does well as a coach besides coming up with excuses on the fly after losses, and even that doesn't work for very long with a tough local media like we're seeing in Philly.

[Dr Positivity]

I don't see why any top tier coach would want the Lakers job.

I think for Doc he'd just want to live in LA again

[MyUniBroDavis]

Read on Twitter

In other words, Mark Jackson will be the Lakers' next coach. Big yikes.

Also seeing reports that LeBron is pulling for this. I'm amazed.

I don't know if there's any living NBA coach I'd want to hire in my organization less than Jackson, and I can't imagine anyone thinking that Jackson would be able to actually solve basketball problems with superior creativity.

Even though it’ll probably be neither of them,It’s kind of hilarious that it’s between Jackson and Nurse rn

Like a top 3 coach vs the worst one not named Kurt rambis

[Doctor MJ]

I don't see why any top tier coach would want the Lakers job.

Mark Jackson would be such a soap opera move, on multiple levels. On the one hand, it seems like he can't possibly have gone all this time since the Warriors job without learning some lessons about all the things that he did wrong there, but on the other hand, he seems stubborn and set in his ways so he may do the exact same ludicrous stuff again. The disaster could be epic, even compared to this season.

Yup. Both sides represent drama that no one competent should want to touch.

Re: more epic disaster than even this season. Maybe. It'll be more final if that's the direction things go. If next year goes badly, then LeBron's leaving in free agency will feel like a burial of the Laker franchise, and it may well be. They ain't goin' bankrupt or anything, but this was a franchise that looked absolutely terrible before LeBron showed up. If they end up back in that same boat again with no reason to think any subsequent superstar wants to join them, they are going to have to change how they do business.

lakers seem like one of those teams that is behind the times and doesnt want to modernize/clean up house

if they are not careful they will find themselves left behind and without lakers brand power being enough to save them (specially now that there are so many big market options for marquee free agents compared to before with clippers, miami, nets, etc)

Yup, I tend to call this the Blockbuster problem.

If the position you're in the past is offered a massive competitive advantage, it's hard to pivot toward an approach where you don't have that same kind of advantage. But if that new approach is going to make your current approach obsolete (cough, Netflix), you either adapt or you die.

Lakers won't truly die, but they already had 6 straight losing seasons in the 2010s and only broke free from it because a superstar decided to come any way. No reason the 6 years can't repeat, and no reason to assume they'll be saved by another superstar next time, particularly if things don't end well this time.

[Outside]

I don't see why any top tier coach would want the Lakers job.

Mark Jackson would be such a soap opera move, on multiple levels. On the one hand, it seems like he can't possibly have gone all this time since the Warriors job without learning some lessons about all the things that he did wrong there, but on the other hand, he seems stubborn and set in his ways so he may do the exact same ludicrous stuff again. The disaster could be epic, even compared to this season.

Yup. Both sides represent drama that no one competent should want to touch.

Re: more epic disaster than even this season. Maybe. It'll be more final if that's the direction things go. If next year goes badly, then LeBron's leaving in free agency will feel like a burial of the Laker franchise, and it may well be. They ain't goin' bankrupt or anything, but this was a franchise that looked absolutely terrible before LeBron showed up. If they end up back in that same boat again with no reason to think any subsequent superstar wants to join them, they are going to have to change how they do business.

Ownership is bad. Jeanie Buss isn't at Dolan's level of bad, but there's the whole Kurt/Linda Rambis factor, her impulsive hires (Magic, Pelinka), and her inability or unwillingness to get an experienced president of bball operations to make smart, tough decisions. Jeanie is stuck in the old mindset of what an owner should be instead of moving into the modern age like the Dodgers did.

Pelinka is bad or overmatched. He overreacted badly to losing in the first round last season. He's made a few good moves but more often bad ones, misjudging talent and fit. He apparently can't say no to LeBron (though he has another chance to with Jackson being pushed by LeBron and Klutch).

LeBron has done a lot of good for player empowerment, but he's turned into a monster in that regard. LeGM is a thing. He won't be taking any discounts with his next contract, which will be huge. He still puts up numbers and puts fannies in seats, so he has all the leverage, and he knows it.

The roster is a mess. LeBron is officially old and has missed over a quarter of the games since coming to LA. Regardless of the occasional highlight, his defensive effort is now mostly standing in one place, swiping at the ball, and pointing at teammates. AD is younger but is out as much as LeBron. Westbrook is a bad fit, has lost much of his value regardless of fit, and has an albatross of a contract that will be difficult to move for anything of value. The combination of LeBron, AD, and Westbrook leaves them so cap-strapped that they barely have any moves available. The role players pale in comparison to the bubble championship team.

Vogel was actually the one steadying influence in the whole mess this year. Replacing him with Mark Jackson? Yikes.

[Doctor MJ]

Read on Twitter

In other words, Mark Jackson will be the Lakers' next coach. Big yikes.

Also seeing reports that LeBron is pulling for this. I'm amazed.

I don't know if there's any living NBA coach I'd want to hire in my organization less than Jackson, and I can't imagine anyone thinking that Jackson would be able to actually solve basketball problems with superior creativity.

Even though it’ll probably be neither of them,It’s kind of hilarious that it’s between Jackson and Nurse rn

Like a top 3 coach vs the worst one not named Kurt rambis

If I'm Nurse, I'm staying the hell away from the Lakers.

Re: worst not named Rambis. Interesting comparison. I'd say Jackson is the more effective player coach, but of course, that's not the big reason why no one should hire him. Jackson has shown a tendency to get into power struggles with both his bosses and underlings for no good reason. As a GM, if you hire him, expect that he'll be buttering up the owner and getting you blamed for the disappointment that follows.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Also seeing reports that LeBron is pulling for this. I'm amazed.

I don't know if there's any living NBA coach I'd want to hire in my organization less than Jackson, and I can't imagine anyone thinking that Jackson would be able to actually solve basketball problems with superior creativity.

Even though it’ll probably be neither of them,It’s kind of hilarious that it’s between Jackson and Nurse rn

Like a top 3 coach vs the worst one not named Kurt rambis

If I'm Nurse, I'm staying the hell away from the Lakers.

Re: worst not named Rambis. Interesting comparison. I'd say Jackson is the more effective player coach, but of course, that's not the big reason why no one should hire him. Jackson has shown a tendency to get into power struggles with both his bosses and underlings for no good reason. As a GM, if you hire him, expect that he'll be buttering up the owner and getting you blamed for the disappointment that follows.

Oh I was just going off betting odds lol, there’s no way they act get nurse lmao

But Rambis is already at that point, he could probably get the GM fired right now for the Lakers if he really wanted to lol

[Texas Chuck]

Regarding Luka's calf injury, it could happen to anyone, but I do wonder if his weight was a factor. Even though he has apparently played himself into shape during the season, he's still one very tall, bulky guy who has issues with conditioning and/or diet. I still don't know how he could go from the NBA season to the Olympics and then show up at camp after a few weeks in such poor shape. Or maybe all that has nothing to do with it.

I have similar concerns.

I just can't shake this thought about both Luka and Zion: They seem to gain weight very easily. I don't mean this as any kind of character flow, but just as a statement about metabolism. I think both are going to quickly developing exceptionally good year-round habits if they want to have long, healthy careers.

Of the two, I'm less concerned with Luka though. He strikes me as someone who has a pretty well informed understanding of what he's going to need to do to be a professional athlete as he ages, in part because of his dad's career. He has to change his habits, but my guess is he probably will. Zion on the other hand, feels like someone who is operating with much less of a roadmap, and if he doesn't find the right mentors, it won't take much for him to ruin his body.

Dirk was so faithful about this, just fanatical with his in-season diet and work-out routine and even in the off-season he didn't ever give himself a break until the lockout after the title year. But its discouraging when Dirk talks about mentoring Luka. He always says I'm here to help him anyway I can, but he doesn't ask me much and I don't offer much. Then Dirk goes on to say how Luka is better than he ever was(not yet he isn't Dirk ) plus with Dirk's personality he's just not going to push hard on that sort of thing,

But I share similar concerns. He's a naturally big dude, with a heavy workload, and seems to enjoy the NBA lifestyle. Maybe it takes a little more playoff disappointment to get him to really take it serious. Or maybe if gets married, has kids--that seems to impact certain guys.

I have nowhere near the Zion concerns though. Luka is hyper competitive in ways we've not seen from Zion. I don't see Luka accepting anything but being the best player in the league and competing for (read: winning) titles.

[Dr Positivity]

Cavs would have a chance in 7 game against Brooklyn but in one game playoffs can't do much about Kyrie and Durant starting 15 for 16

[Fadeaway_J]

Cavs would have a chance in 7 game against Brooklyn but in one game playoffs can't do much about Kyrie and Durant starting 15 for 16

LeVert being 2-10 is a bigger concern, he's supposed to be Garland's support.

[Dr Positivity]

Really like what Bruce Brown is doing. Unfortunately for Nets he is FA this summer.

[falcolombardi]

nets winning barely in ganes where dursnt and kyrie are sun hot is not the best signal imo

they can beat anyone when their two stars have a hot hand, but can they do that 4 of 7 games every series?

[Fadeaway_J]

nets winning barely in ganes where dursnt and kyrie are sun hot is not the best signal imo

they can beat anyone when their two stars have a hot hand, but can they do that 4 of 7 games every series?

It also should be noted that Cleveland has terrible personnel to guard either of them. Boston is an entirely different kettle of fish.