The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition

[homecourtloss]

Didn’t watch last night (hate 10:30 pm starts), but looks like it went about how I expected. Vogel has no idea how to put together proper lineups and Pelinka is the dumbest GM in the NBA. LeBron had a nice, efficient night though. 34/11/5 on 57% shooting. It’s a shame he has such stupid people running the team. For all his problems Dan Gilbert wasn’t afraid to spend like crazy.

He was a bit hampered by all the injuries and resorted to Bradley at the end who played much better than Monk or Westbrook.

The crazy thing is that as poorly as Westbrook played, the Lakers were up 85-76 with 1:20 left in the third when that crazy Rondo-Westbrook-Melo lineup played at replacement levels and then gave away the game.

LeBron on court with Westbrook off court:

9 minutes, 20 possessions, 115.7 ORtg, 70 DRtg

LeBron + AD on court with Westbrook off court:

7 minutes, 14 possessions, 121.4 ORtg, 85.7 DRtg

At some point unless a miracle takes place, they’re going to have to consider having Westbrook play off the bench, which will cause chemistry/locker room problems. LeBron and AD look more than capable of winning playoff series if not for literally the worst possible surrounding cast in ever which way. Having another decent defender like Ariza in there who can also shoot would have been big for this team but is that doesn’t look like it will possible because Ariza coming back off of injuries will be iffy.

[Colbinii]

Didn’t watch last night (hate 10:30 pm starts), but looks like it went about how I expected. Vogel has no idea how to put together proper lineups and Pelinka is the dumbest GM in the NBA. LeBron had a nice, efficient night though. 34/11/5 on 57% shooting. It’s a shame he has such stupid people running the team. For all his problems Dan Gilbert wasn’t afraid to spend like crazy.

He was a bit hampered by all the injuries and resorted to Bradley at the end who played much better than Monk or Westbrook.

The crazy thing is that as poorly as Westbrook played, the Lakers were up 85-76 with 1:20 left in the third when that crazy Rondo-Westbrook-Melo lineup played at replacement levels and then gave away the game.

LeBron on court with Westbrook off court:

9 minutes, 20 possessions, 115.7 ORtg, 70 DRtg

LeBron + AD on court with Westbrook off court:

7 minutes, 14 possessions, 121.4 ORtg, 85.7 DRtg

At some point unless a miracle takes place, they’re going to have to consider having Westbrook play off the bench, which will cause chemistry/locker room problems. LeBron and AD look more than capable of winning playoff series if not for literally the worst possible surrounding cast in ever which way. Having another decent defender like Ariza in there who can also shoot would have been big for this team but is that doesn’t look like it will possible because Ariza coming back off of injuries will be iffy.

Thanks for the line-up data.

Vogel loves playing Rondo because what he does on the defensive end and what he provides with his brain in practice and in the locker room. The issue is Rondo with Westbrook is a terrible fit offensive.

The teams ceiling is clearly capped with integrating Westbrook's style into line-ups when LeBron is not on the floor or when LeBron is at the 4 with 2 other shooters. This line-up is going to take time to develop with all the new pieces and we need to be careful about not overreacting with conclusions about what the team will be by April. At the same time, it is fair to criticize certain line-ups but staying mindful of the 82 game regular season is the pre-season for the playoffs. There will be ups and downs and what we need to see as basketball minds is growth with line-ups.

Will you be tracking the Westbrook data? If you have time I would love to see how it evolves throughout the season.

[Mos_Heat]

Maybe they should fire Vogel right now, cuz they don't have personal for him. They can't play two bigs or Rondo for 20 straight minutes like he loves. Even 19-20 team with a team that was constructed pretty well, their offense sucked. With Westbrook they need borderline offensive genius to make this work

[The High Cyde]

Y’all are blaming Pelinka, but equal blame should be put on Bron and maybe AD as well. There’s no way this roster gets put together without their blessing.

[Gooner]

Y’all are blaming Pelinka, but equal blame should be put on Bron and maybe AD as well. There’s no way this roster gets put together without their blessing.

Absolutely not. LeBron wanted Westbrook, for whatever reason.

[Run DLC]

LeBron definitely deserved some blames. That’s always been LeBron’s main flaw as LeGM, he’s always trying to play with players that he’s friends with or want to be friends with instead of wanting to play with players that suit his playing style.

[Slava]

Westbrook for Love and Sexton mid season?

[McBubbles]

It feels like the Lakers are outplaying the Warriors by a noticable margin but its a 2pt game.....

when you have an elite defense its the other way around

In this game, it’s 2020 Bron and bubble AD, but every other player is replacement level bad. Imagine Green or Caruso or KCP out there instead of the detritus that’s currently there; they need to bring Bazemore back. AD and Bron will have to play major minutes for them to win games, and it’s obvious with these absolute scrubs out there.

Best and funniest use of the word detritus I've ever seen

[trickshot]

Westbrook will find a regular season niche with the Lakers but the game was imo a bigger indicator of what they will experience in the playoffs. He doesn't seem capable of figuring things out quickly. Lakers should do what Cleveland did with Love where he gets the first few touches to establish himself early on.

One thing I'm sure of is he isn't averaging that triple double or even a double double in assists. The Westbrook offense where roleplayers throw up any kind of low quality shot after he passes it isn't going to feature on this year's Lakers, not once the roleplayers enjoy the quality of shotcreation Lebron and Rondo's crisp, well weighted, well timed passes does for them. Yesterday they turned down so many shots the wizards and okc would have spammed. Another irony is Westbrook might actually be worse when his teammates get defensive attention.

Finally, don't understand how people are putting it on Lebron's ball dominance. You didn't even need to watch the game, If Lebron finished +10 and Westbrook -20 doesn't basic deductive reasoning already tell one they didn't play as many minutes together? Why did he also suck without Lebron? He has struggled to displace even Rondo. Lakers have some big sacrifices to make if they want to get their money's worth from Westbrook. They need to marginalise Rondo and stomach whatever higher error, lower quality offense Westbrook can bring.

[Greyhound]

Didn’t watch last night (hate 10:30 pm starts), but looks like it went about how I expected. Vogel has no idea how to put together proper lineups and Pelinka is the dumbest GM in the NBA. LeBron had a nice, efficient night though. 34/11/5 on 57% shooting. It’s a shame he has such stupid people running the team. For all his problems Dan Gilbert wasn’t afraid to spend like crazy.

He was a bit hampered by all the injuries and resorted to Bradley at the end who played much better than Monk or Westbrook.

The crazy thing is that as poorly as Westbrook played, the Lakers were up 85-76 with 1:20 left in the third when that crazy Rondo-Westbrook-Melo lineup played at replacement levels and then gave away the game.

LeBron on court with Westbrook off court:

9 minutes, 20 possessions, 115.7 ORtg, 70 DRtg

LeBron + AD on court with Westbrook off court:

7 minutes, 14 possessions, 121.4 ORtg, 85.7 DRtg

At some point unless a miracle takes place, they’re going to have to consider having Westbrook play off the bench, which will cause chemistry/locker room problems. LeBron and AD look more than capable of winning playoff series if not for literally the worst possible surrounding cast in ever which way. Having another decent defender like Ariza in there who can also shoot would have been big for this team but is that doesn’t look like it will possible because Ariza coming back off of injuries will be iffy.

Don’t forget Monk.

Vogel had him in at SF during that stretch. All 6’3” (on a good day) 200 lbs of him.

That end of the third lineup by Vogel was simply criminal.

[RCM88x]

I think people need to relax a bit, this was the first game. This team is going to be a WIP for a while with basically an entirely new roster that isn't even fully healthy.

Not sure what the expectations were, seems like some of you expected them to win by 30.

If they're still struggling after 30 games I'd maybe be concerned then.

[trickshot]

I actually think their offense is being overdiagnosed. They looked amazing on offense in the first 3 quarters. The game should have been put to bed before that. The problem is they haven't played net positive basketball. OrTG-Drtg, if your offense is that good and you lose with Curry on the bench then your defense didn't bring it.

They have these bench lineups that are 2-3 offensive players giving away open 3s like candy. Why we could sort of guess Bradley was going to become a coaching favourite. I'd keep the 3 best offensive roleplayers and flip everyone else for two way versatility. Also rofl at Westbrook going rebound hunting on the dagger 3. He's for sure getting benched in playoff clutch situations. It's clear his competitive mantra doesn't involve helping out on D, Asides that they will easily win every game they manage to keep opponents under 100 points.

[nzahir]

Rubio and Love would be a great haul for Russ

Rubio and Rondo/LeBron is redundant. Kevin Love stopped playing the 4 with a younger LeBron. How’s he getting minutes with AD and Dwight and DAJ when he hasn’t seen playoff basketball in almost 4 years.

Rubio would be our bench pg, Nunn or even Avery start at the 1

Rondo wouldn't play unless Rubio is hurt

Playoff core of

Nunn, Bazemore, Lebron, Love, AD
Rubio, THT, Ariza, Dwight

Avery?

Too good to be true though sadly

I think we will make a small move or 2 with expiring's and 2nds or buyout market

We could trade THT, but not sure for who.

Ingles? PJ Washington? Lamb? (meh)

[nzahir]

Yeah, I don’t have high hopes either. I know it’s just game one, but Westbrook is just a dumb player. He has heart and plays hard, but he doesn’t know how to play in a system. Lakers need to figure out a way to use him as a back door cutter/slasher. He has no business forcing those contested 3’s and 2’s that he normally take.

There was 1 time where he slashed and literally fumbled the ball instead of making the open dunk/layup

Guy is cancerous

I can legit think of 1 deal, would be with CLE

Love and Rubio for Russ and 5 2nds?

Nunn, Bazemore, Bron, Love, AD
Rubio, THT, Ariza, Melo, Dwight

Unrealistic, but funny to think If PHI hasn't figured it out by December:

Niang and Simmons for Russ, 2027 1st, 5 2nds

Phi probably laughs at us though

Cavs shouldn't want Westbrook on a team with Sexland otherwise it would be ok

D'Angelo and Prince for Westbrook?

No way Minny does this. Also KAT and D'lo are great friends

I wonder if they would consider

Beverly, Beasley, and Prince for Russ and Monk/Ellington

We can add 2nds if needed

Beverly, Bazemore, Ariza, Lebron, AD,
Nunn, Beasley, THT, Melo, Dwight

Can have Beasley start instead of Bazemore or Ariza for more spacing if needed

Still probably too good for us

[Mos_Heat]

Y’all are blaming Pelinka, but equal blame should be put on Bron and maybe AD as well. There’s no way this roster gets put together without their blessing.

I mean, that's 100% on Lebron and AD. Basically LAL had Hield route and Westbrook routeб and Lebron/AD chose Westbrook. Pelinka just overpaid in the trade like he usually does

[nzahir]

Y’all are blaming Pelinka, but equal blame should be put on Bron and maybe AD as well. There’s no way this roster gets put together without their blessing.

I mean, that's 100% on Lebron and AD. Basically LAL had Hield route and Westbrook routeб and Lebron/AD chose Westbrook. Pelinka just overpaid in the trade like he usually does

AC, Hield, Ariza, Lebron, AD
Nunn, Pope, Bazemore, Melo, Dwight

Rondo, Monk?, DJ

Cut out Melo and the bottom 3 guys for the playoffs

Maybe we would have signed someone else instead of Nunn with the mle, but looks pretty solid

[JLei]

I mean AD and Lebron look amazing that's the most important thing.

Why don't we wait for Nunn, THT, Ariza to get healthy before we sound the code red on the supporting cast. All are ahead of the guys they played yesterday and aren't dumpster fires defensively.

Westbrook.....yahhhh that didn't look great. But he is going to take the longest to fit in. Some sacrifices will have to be made to get him to fit in. And that's probably taking Rondo out of the rotation and not playing Carmelo and Westbrook together without Lebron and one of AD/Dwight on the court.

Without Lebron on the court. Melo is pretty bad out there. But with Lebron and AD/Dwight and against bench units, his offensive value isn't totally negated by his defense.

[zimpy27]

Y’all are blaming Pelinka, but equal blame should be put on Bron and maybe AD as well. There’s no way this roster gets put together without their blessing.

I mean, that's 100% on Lebron and AD. Basically LAL had Hield route and Westbrook routeб and Lebron/AD chose Westbrook. Pelinka just overpaid in the trade like he usually does

I think it was AD that wanted Westbrook. LeBron was pulling for DeMar/Hield.

[McBubbles]

Question, why is this now 117 page long, 2021 Off Season Thread which is no longer in the 2021 Off Season still active lol. Shouldn't there be a new one?

[The High Cyde]

SideshowBob MIA is why lol