The Lebron Thread (Pt. 3)

[GSP]

Anyone else think Parker leaving the game confused the Heat defense and how to match since their defense in game 2 was traps on pnr? Its just hard to believe they get blown out like this. The large lead only start in the 2nd half

[therealbig3]

Lol you don't know how you can easily spin this do you.

Lebron has a PER for the entire playoff's of 28.3 and a TS% of .601. That's the only argument someone will have to use 20 years from now to use "facts" against narrative.....

He's got good numbers for the entire playoffs. He's sucked in the Finals though. There is statistical evidence for that.

And throwing out stats without context is NOT what the "stats guys" that you dismiss all the time do. They use statistics to analyze how a player played WHILE considering context. Strictly judging players by W-L record is braindead.

[TheChosen618]

The Spurs ball-movement is killing the Heat. Knicks fans all season thought their team plays like the way the Spurs do, the problem is that they clearly don't and they play pretty close to the opposite of the Spurs.

Spurs ball-movement plus their hot shooting is what is making the Spurs kill the Heat right now, pretty simple.

[therealbig3]

Anyone else think Parker leaving the game confused the Heat defense and how to match since their defense in game 2 was traps on pnr? Its just hard to believe they get blown out like this. The large lead only start in the 2nd half

It was a reverse of what happened in game 2. Spurs and Heat are competitive for the most part, then SA starts hitting 3s like crazy, Miami can't hit a shot, and then Miami's defense and rebounding just falls apart and they can't get a stop to save their lives.

Miami still has a good chance to win the series if they take game 4, but LeBron needs to step up, there's no other way to put it. If he keeps playing the way he has, Miami's done.

[JNelson43]

LeBron's legacy is on the line again.

If he keeps this up, I don't think he's ever going to shake the monkey that will be on his back. He has to come through with some pretty monster performances if the Heat want to win.

And the Heat HAVE to win this series for LeBron to preserve his legacy. No matter what he does from game 4 onwards, if the Heat lose, LeBron's performance in games 1-3 are going to be a HUGE black mark for him.

Well 2011 was seen by many (most?) as the second choke job in a row after the Celtics, there were a lot of questions about exactly how high his game could go on the biggest stage. The 2012 Finals was vindication for him in a big way.

At this point he'll always have the 2012 Finals to point back to, and very possibly more Finals as well (if the Heat don't pull this series off anyway). The downside is that those series can't be looked at as flukes or the last big hurdle that Lebron overcame to become a legend. But as others have said, a string of bad performances in the midst of absolutely brilliant play has become a pattern with Lebron.

[GSP]

The Heats cant waste mike miller. He has it going from longrange this series.

[TheChosen618]

Lebron's 2013 Finals is looking like Tragic Johnson from 1984. Magic had already won in the past (two to be exact), so you couldn't question him, but nevertheless you could still criticize him and the media did. Lebron already has a ring and dominated in the Finals before, so you can't question him being a Finals choker or whatever, but you can still criticize him for his bad play.

[NaturalThunder]

Lebron's 2013 Finals is looking like Tragic Johnson from 1984. Magic had already won in the past (two to be exact), so you couldn't question him, but nevertheless you could still criticize him and the media did. Lebron already has a ring and dominated in the Finals before, so you can't question him being a Finals choker or whatever, but you can still criticize him for his bad play.

Difference/problem is, this would be 3 out of 4 Finals where LeBron was bad. That was just a one time thing for Magic.

[semi-sentient]

Lebron's 2013 Finals is looking like Tragic Johnson from 1984. Magic had already won in the past (two to be exact), so you couldn't question him, but nevertheless you could still criticize him and the media did. Lebron already has a ring and dominated in the Finals before, so you can't question him being a Finals choker or whatever, but you can still criticize him for his bad play.

Not even remotely comparable. Magic had a few late game blunders but otherwise played fantastic throughout the series against a team that was heavily favored.

18.0 pts (.612 ts%), 7.7 reb, and 13.6 ast is no joke. He was the 2nd most efficient scorer on the team, led in rebounds, and ran a great offense against a great defense.

[G35]

Lol you don't know how you can easily spin this do you.

Lebron has a PER for the entire playoff's of 28.3 and a TS% of .601. That's the only argument someone will have to use 20 years from now to use "facts" against narrative.....

He's got good numbers for the entire playoffs. He's sucked in the Finals though. There is statistical evidence for that.

And throwing out stats without context is NOT what the "stats guys" that you dismiss all the time do. They use statistics to analyze how a player played WHILE considering context. Strictly judging players by W-L record is braindead.

The stat is the the punchline for every argument. I don't hear HOW the player played, I just hear about production. And I didn't hear any of this all during the year. All I heard is how Lebron is now a top 10 player and moving up. Why? Stats.....

[JulesWinnfield]

He deserves all the criticism he is going to get in the next 40+ hours.

But there is still a lot of series to be played and opportunities that lie ahead. I still think Miami wins this series. It's way too early to start talking big picture legacy stuff based on these games when Miami and Lebron still have every opportunity to make that type of talk moot. And I think they will. Miami comes out in game 4 and responds the way they typically do off a loss IMO. I almost feel better about the fact that they got blown out as opposed to losing a heartbreaker.

Overall I'd be stunned if we have a 2004 finals on our hands here and the underdog runs off 3 in a row at home to closeout. This gets back to miami somehow, and when it does i like their chances.

[E-Balla]

Lebron's 2013 Finals is looking like Tragic Johnson from 1984. Magic had already won in the past (two to be exact), so you couldn't question him, but nevertheless you could still criticize him and the media did. Lebron already has a ring and dominated in the Finals before, so you can't question him being a Finals choker or whatever, but you can still criticize him for his bad play.

Not even remotely comparable. Magic had a few late game blunders but otherwise played fantastic throughout the series against a team that was heavily favored.

18.0 pts (.612 ts%), 7.7 reb, and 13.6 ast is no joke. He was the 2nd most efficient scorer on the team, led in rebounds, and ran a great offense against a great defense.

This. Magic only had a few late game turnovers. Lebron has all game issues.

[Dr Positivity]

LeBron's legacy is on the line again.

If he keeps this up, I don't think he's ever going to shake the monkey that will be on his back. He has to come through with some pretty monster performances if the Heat want to win.

And the Heat HAVE to win this series for LeBron to preserve his legacy. No matter what he does from game 4 onwards, if the Heat lose, LeBron's performance in games 1-3 are going to be a HUGE black mark for him.

Good point about already burying himself if MIA loses no matter his stats from here.

A Heat loss now would be BRUTAL for Lebron's legacy because of how it's combined with 2010 and 2011. 3 "WTFturtle" years out of 4 is really bad.

[E-Balla]

He deserves all the criticism he is going to get in the next 40+ hours.

But there is still a lot of series to be played and opportunities that lie ahead. I still think Miami wins this series. It's way too early to start talking big picture legacy stuff based on these games when Miami and Lebron still have every opportunity to make that type of talk moot. And I think they will. Miami comes out in game 4 and responds the way they typically do off a loss IMO. I almost feel better about the fact that they got blown out as opposed to losing a heartbreaker.

Overall I'd be stunned if we have a 2004 finals on our hands here and the underdog runs off 3 in a row at home to closeout. This gets back to miami somehow, and when it does i like their chances.

Again the Spurs have the next 2 at home and the team to win game 3 when it's 1-1 won 92% of the time. I picked Miami before the series so I'm sticking to it but it's looking very bleak.

Wished this happened last year when I picked the Spurs to beat the Heat in 5 before the season started...

[therealbig3]

I don't think the Spurs are going to win all 3 games at home, but game 4 is an absolute must-win for the Heat. They're not beating the Spurs 3 straight games, regardless if they take game 5 and have games 6 and 7 at home...it's just not happening.

They need to tie this up 2-2 if they want to have a chance. But they'd still be long shots if they go down 3-2, even with the last 2 games at home, although I wouldn't write them off. Ideally, they need to win both games 4 and 5 if they want to feel good about their chances of winning the series.

It's definitely an uphill battle for them the rest of the way, and they need to bring their A game pretty much every game. And it all starts with LeBron.

[GSP]

He deserves all the criticism he is going to get in the next 40+ hours.

But there is still a lot of series to be played and opportunities that lie ahead. I still think Miami wins this series. It's way too early to start talking big picture legacy stuff based on these games when Miami and Lebron still have every opportunity to make that type of talk moot. And I think they will. Miami comes out in game 4 and responds the way they typically do off a loss IMO. I almost feel better about the fact that they got blown out as opposed to losing a heartbreaker.

Overall I'd be stunned if we have a 2004 finals on our hands here and the underdog runs off 3 in a row at home to closeout. This gets back to miami somehow, and when it does i like their chances.

Complete agreed

[JordansBulls]

I don't think the Spurs are going to win all 3 games at home, but game 4 is an absolute must-win for the Heat. They're not beating the Spurs 3 straight games, regardless if they take game 5 and have games 6 and 7 at home...it's just not happening.

They need to tie this up 2-2 if they want to have a chance. But they'd still be long shots if they go down 3-2, even with the last 2 games at home, although I wouldn't write them off. Ideally, they need to win both games 4 and 5 if they want to feel good about their chances of winning the series.

It's definitely an uphill battle for them the rest of the way, and they need to bring their A game pretty much every game. And it all starts with LeBron.

This is why game 3 was important was SA because if they lost another one at home no way would they win game 6 and 7 on the road. I think SA needs to get the next game for sure mainly because I think they would want to end it in 5 and not risk going back to Miami.

[NaturalThunder]

Lebron's 2013 Finals is looking like Tragic Johnson from 1984. Magic had already won in the past (two to be exact), so you couldn't question him, but nevertheless you could still criticize him and the media did. Lebron already has a ring and dominated in the Finals before, so you can't question him being a Finals choker or whatever, but you can still criticize him for his bad play.

Not even remotely comparable. Magic had a few late game blunders but otherwise played fantastic throughout the series against a team that was heavily favored.

18.0 pts (.612 ts%), 7.7 reb, and 13.6 ast is no joke. He was the 2nd most efficient scorer on the team, led in rebounds, and ran a great offense against a great defense.

Or this too. I'm only 26 and I've never gone back and watched the '84 Finals like I have with some of the other Finals from the early 90's and 80's, so I never knew what the "Tragic Johnson" thing was about. I just thought he had some terrible games; but it if it was just some late game blunders, then this wouldn't even be remotely comparable because, like GC Pantalones said, it's been entire game problems for LeBorn in 2 games so far.

And, like I said, LeBron's already got the black cloud of 2011 and, to a lesser extent, 2007 hanging over his head. This would make 75% of his Finals appearances have been really bad (by his standards and other all-time great's standards) if he continues playing at or around this level and the Heat lose.

If you're an all-time great (top 5-10 all-time), you want the one bad Finals series to be the outlier or fluke; for LeBron, if this continues, the one good Finals series he had in 4 tries would be the outlier.

[nikomCH]

So far it hasn't looked like SAS is just the flat out better team like it did in 04 so I still give Miami a chance. They're both pretty close but I think SAS is the only team so far that understands how you guard LeBron, Pop is a god damn mastermind. Too many times you see teams play LeBron with single coverage (even good defensive teams) and don't send the double at the right time. SAS gives LeBron space and only sends the double or even triple once he's committed to making his move in the paint. It's so much easier to guard the entire team that way.

[JulesWinnfield]

He deserves all the criticism he is going to get in the next 40+ hours.

But there is still a lot of series to be played and opportunities that lie ahead. I still think Miami wins this series. It's way too early to start talking big picture legacy stuff based on these games when Miami and Lebron still have every opportunity to make that type of talk moot. And I think they will. Miami comes out in game 4 and responds the way they typically do off a loss IMO. I almost feel better about the fact that they got blown out as opposed to losing a heartbreaker.

Overall I'd be stunned if we have a 2004 finals on our hands here and the underdog runs off 3 in a row at home to closeout. This gets back to miami somehow, and when it does i like their chances.

Again the Spurs have the next 2 at home and the team to win game 3 when it's 1-1 won 92% of the time. I picked Miami before the series so I'm sticking to it but it's looking very bleak.

Wished this happened last year when I picked the Spurs to beat the Heat in 5 before the season started...

The 12-1 stat for game 3 doesn't mean much to me at all. Miami clearly has a better than 8% chance to win this series. Every series is different, and 13 series isn't a massive sample size. It's also a very selective stat, we've seen teams climb out of bigger holes in the finals than falling down 2-1 off a loss in game 3. Plus the one just happened two years ago.

If Miami gets this back home, and I think they do, I like their chances.