The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1

[Dr Spaceman]

Interest tidbit.

Stephen Curry wanted to get some shots up at Toyota Center on Thursday night, the eve of Game 6 against the Houston Rockets.

The Warriors' manager booked the court from 7 PM to 8 PM so Curry could work on his shot.

But Chris Paul heard about Curry's reservations and canceled them by using the hour to get shots up himself. Curry offered to stick to half a court, but Paul wouldn't allow it.

Following Golden State's Game 6 win over the Rockets, Draymond Green stood outside the Warriors' locker room to greet teammates as they came in. When Curry greeted Green, he screamed “Kick me off the court again, boy!”

Green replied to Curry's taunt: “Kick him off! Kick him off!”

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/253735/Chris-Paul-Kicked-Stephen-Curry-Out-Of-Toyota-Center-On-Eve-Of-Game-6

so what you're saying is curry was only bad in the first half because chris paul committed a FLAGRANT VIOLATION OF INTEGRITY?

what a monster

No, if I were to comment on that, it would be to point out that this is further evidence of what a petty jerk Chris Paul can be. I wouldn't say it had any impact on Curry's shooting in game 6. I'm sure he got plenty of shots up prior to the game.

I heard plenty of respect given by the Warriors to James Harden in the their postgame comments. Conversely, when the Warriors celebrated their series win over Houston, Brian Windhorst reported that they repeatedly invoked Chris Paul's name, "surrounded by curse words." As someone mentioned in the playoffs thread, Chris Paul used to be 75 percent skill and 25 percent antics, but that ratio has flipped to 25/75.

Is this more or less offensive than Draymond taking a swipe across Harden’s face after already injuring his eyes the previous game?

Who really cares about this stuff? You could make just as big a deal about the Warriors locker room apparently making fun of Harden for “faking” how much pain he was in after the eye injury. This is jsut how it is with extremely competitive people in extremely competitive environments.

The Warriors don’t have any sort of moral high ground here, though. You can think Paul is an ass but the Warriors have enough of those on their squad.

[MO12msu]

Hopefully he never psyches himself out on his jumper again.

He should still be a modest all-star(level player) for a couple more years if not.

Quietly a top 15 RPM in a disaster jumpshooting season. He’s far from done.

I’ve started to believe his jump shooting issues are at least in part because he’s slow and struggles to create separation. I mean his FT shooting was fine, it can’t still be the elbow bothering him. I don’t think his jumper is just gonna come back like magic.

Still a really effective guy. Top 15 player for sure. But he really is done as an effective shot creator IMO.

He's done as an effective creator one on one but I'm firmly of the belief that if the rockets add a little bit of variance in their offense and embrace traditional pick and roll offense when Paul is the main guy, he would still be able to get to his patented mid range jumper pretty easy.

Feel like we saw glimpses of it in this series, but the Rockets' offense has always been so one note that they don't really embrace fully committing to anything besides attacking switches, driving and kicking/lobbing the ball. It's beyond obvious at this point that he can't beat guys off the dribble anymore and will resort to bs foul drawing in those scenarios going forward.

[Dr Spaceman]

Hopefully he never psyches himself out on his jumper again.

He should still be a modest all-star(level player) for a couple more years if not.

Quietly a top 15 RPM in a disaster jumpshooting season. He’s far from done.

I’ve started to believe his jump shooting issues are at least in part because he’s slow and struggles to create separation. I mean his FT shooting was fine, it can’t still be the elbow bothering him. I don’t think his jumper is just gonna come back like magic.

Still a really effective guy. Top 15 player for sure. But he really is done as an effective shot creator IMO.

He's done as an effective creator one on one but I'm firmly of the belief that if the rockets add a little bit of variance in their offense and embrace traditional pick and roll offense when Paul is the main guy, he would still be able to get to his patented mid range jumper pretty easy.

Feel like we saw glimpses of it in this series, but the Rockets' offense has always been so one note that they don't really embrace fully committing to anything besides attacking switches, driving and kicking/lobbing the ball. It's beyond obvious at this point that he can't beat guys off the dribble anymore and will resort to bs foul drawing in those scenarios going forward.

The problem as I see it is that teams are taking away the traditional pick and roll offense from the Rockets by playing small and switching. Every time Bogut was on the floor Paul had a field day in the 2 man game but teams don’t give them that opportunity. In the later rounds of the playoffs it is always going to devolve into 1 on 1 play because the best teams can just switch and nullify that part of Paul’s game.

The whole iso-heavy offense was invented because after acquiring Paul the pick and roll Houston offense was so effective teams just started switching everything and iso is the best way to beat that.

Some teams still play traditional coverage of course, like the Jazz, but Paul couldn’t do much vs them either. It seems at this point you need: 1. A team committed to not switching and 2. A big who is slow or refuses to come out on the floor in order for Paul to be effective.

[Outside]

so what you're saying is curry was only bad in the first half because chris paul committed a FLAGRANT VIOLATION OF INTEGRITY?

what a monster

No, if I were to comment on that, it would be to point out that this is further evidence of what a petty jerk Chris Paul can be. I wouldn't say it had any impact on Curry's shooting in game 6. I'm sure he got plenty of shots up prior to the game.

I heard plenty of respect given by the Warriors to James Harden in the their postgame comments. Conversely, when the Warriors celebrated their series win over Houston, Brian Windhorst reported that they repeatedly invoked Chris Paul's name, "surrounded by curse words." As someone mentioned in the playoffs thread, Chris Paul used to be 75 percent skill and 25 percent antics, but that ratio has flipped to 25/75.

25 percent antics?

Anyway, what he did wasn't petty at all. It wasn't some pointless jab to spite him. Though that is the easy purely emotional takeaway.

It would be a bad move to allow him to just shoot at-will if you're a player. At least if you can stop it.

It's gamesmanship.

Gamesmanship? Gonna turn off the hot water in the visitor shower too?

The thing is that the Rockets have talked for a year about them being the better team. How about beating the Warriors straight up instead of pulling this crap. Or is gamesmanship the factor they missed most when Paul went out last year?

[Outside]

so what you're saying is curry was only bad in the first half because chris paul committed a FLAGRANT VIOLATION OF INTEGRITY?

what a monster

No, if I were to comment on that, it would be to point out that this is further evidence of what a petty jerk Chris Paul can be. I wouldn't say it had any impact on Curry's shooting in game 6. I'm sure he got plenty of shots up prior to the game.

I heard plenty of respect given by the Warriors to James Harden in the their postgame comments. Conversely, when the Warriors celebrated their series win over Houston, Brian Windhorst reported that they repeatedly invoked Chris Paul's name, "surrounded by curse words." As someone mentioned in the playoffs thread, Chris Paul used to be 75 percent skill and 25 percent antics, but that ratio has flipped to 25/75.

Is this more or less offensive than Draymond taking a swipe across Harden’s face after already injuring his eyes the previous game?

Who really cares about this stuff? You could make just as big a deal about the Warriors locker room apparently making fun of Harden for “faking” how much pain he was in after the eye injury. This is jsut how it is with extremely competitive people in extremely competitive environments.

The Warriors don’t have any sort of moral high ground here, though. You can think Paul is an ass but the Warriors have enough of those on their squad.

Whataboutism is not a good argument.

[Dr Spaceman]

No, if I were to comment on that, it would be to point out that this is further evidence of what a petty jerk Chris Paul can be. I wouldn't say it had any impact on Curry's shooting in game 6. I'm sure he got plenty of shots up prior to the game.

I heard plenty of respect given by the Warriors to James Harden in the their postgame comments. Conversely, when the Warriors celebrated their series win over Houston, Brian Windhorst reported that they repeatedly invoked Chris Paul's name, "surrounded by curse words." As someone mentioned in the playoffs thread, Chris Paul used to be 75 percent skill and 25 percent antics, but that ratio has flipped to 25/75.

Is this more or less offensive than Draymond taking a swipe across Harden’s face after already injuring his eyes the previous game?

Who really cares about this stuff? You could make just as big a deal about the Warriors locker room apparently making fun of Harden for “faking” how much pain he was in after the eye injury. This is jsut how it is with extremely competitive people in extremely competitive environments.

The Warriors don’t have any sort of moral high ground here, though. You can think Paul is an ass but the Warriors have enough of those on their squad.

Whataboutism is not a good argument.

It’s not “whataboutism” though because I’m not trying to convince you Paul isn’t a jerk or that his actions are justified. I am pointing out a double standard.

Just because the argument style has been misused by a certain party historically doesn’t mean it can’t be effective in a proper context. And honestly the fact that internet people can just totally shut down an argument by saying “whataboutism” is a pretty huge propaganda win for the other pole of the geopolitical spectrum.

When I saw the article about Paul doing this and people getting angry about it my first thought was “if this were Kobe people would eat this up”. Hell, in the 60s the Celtics used to jack up the temperature in the visitor’s locker room until it was like getting dressed in a sauna.

Tactics like this are as old as basketball. If you don’t like tactics like this then there are a lot of players to throw hate on. But you don’t make posts about how much of a jerk Draymond is, you jsut do it for Paul because your goal here is to specifically complain about the things Paul does to make you angry. And it’s inderstandable if fans of the team get a little angry and defensive about this because I genuinely do not remember a more hated squad existing in this sport despite them not really being as extreme as even other teams. .

[ShotCreator]

No, if I were to comment on that, it would be to point out that this is further evidence of what a petty jerk Chris Paul can be. I wouldn't say it had any impact on Curry's shooting in game 6. I'm sure he got plenty of shots up prior to the game.

I heard plenty of respect given by the Warriors to James Harden in the their postgame comments. Conversely, when the Warriors celebrated their series win over Houston, Brian Windhorst reported that they repeatedly invoked Chris Paul's name, "surrounded by curse words." As someone mentioned in the playoffs thread, Chris Paul used to be 75 percent skill and 25 percent antics, but that ratio has flipped to 25/75.

25 percent antics?

Anyway, what he did wasn't petty at all. It wasn't some pointless jab to spite him. Though that is the easy purely emotional takeaway.

It would be a bad move to allow him to just shoot at-will if you're a player. At least if you can stop it.

It's gamesmanship.

Gamesmanship? Gonna turn off the hot water in the visitor shower too?

The thing is that the Rockets have talked for a year about them being the better team. How about beating the Warriors straight up instead of pulling this crap. Or is gamesmanship the factor they missed most when Paul went out last year?

....Yes?

[Outside]

25 percent antics?

Anyway, what he did wasn't petty at all. It wasn't some pointless jab to spite him. Though that is the easy purely emotional takeaway.

It would be a bad move to allow him to just shoot at-will if you're a player. At least if you can stop it.

It's gamesmanship.

Gamesmanship? Gonna turn off the hot water in the visitor shower too?

The thing is that the Rockets have talked for a year about them being the better team. How about beating the Warriors straight up instead of pulling this crap. Or is gamesmanship the factor they missed most when Paul went out last year?

....Yes?

It's like Bull Durham, when Costner tells Robbins that when you're in the show, wearing shower shoes with mold makes you a character, but when you do it in the minors, it's just disgusting. Back in the day, the Celtics pulling that stuff added to their legend, but the Rockets didn't win, so Paul's move is just low class pettiness by someone who isn't good enough to win the game.

[ShotCreator]

Gamesmanship? Gonna turn off the hot water in the visitor shower too?

The thing is that the Rockets have talked for a year about them being the better team. How about beating the Warriors straight up instead of pulling this crap. Or is gamesmanship the factor they missed most when Paul went out last year?

....Yes?

It's like Bull Durham, when Costner tells Robbins that when you're in the show, wearing shower shoes with mold makes you a character, but when you do it in the minors, it's just disgusting. Back in the day, the Celtics pulling that stuff added to their legend, but the Rockets didn't win, so Paul's move is just low class pettiness by someone who isn't good enough to win the game.

Pop did it for years IIRC.

[Outside]

Is this more or less offensive than Draymond taking a swipe across Harden’s face after already injuring his eyes the previous game?

Who really cares about this stuff? You could make just as big a deal about the Warriors locker room apparently making fun of Harden for “faking” how much pain he was in after the eye injury. This is jsut how it is with extremely competitive people in extremely competitive environments.

The Warriors don’t have any sort of moral high ground here, though. You can think Paul is an ass but the Warriors have enough of those on their squad.

Whataboutism is not a good argument.

It’s not “whataboutism” though because I’m not trying to convince you Paul isn’t a jerk or that his actions are justified. I am pointing out a double standard.

Just because the argument style has been misused by a certain party historically doesn’t mean it can’t be effective in a proper context. And honestly the fact that internet people can just totally shut down an argument by saying “whataboutism” is a pretty huge propaganda win for the other pole of the geopolitical spectrum.

When I saw the article about Paul doing this and people getting angry about it my first thought was “if this were Kobe people would eat this up”. Hell, in the 60s the Celtics used to jack up the temperature in the visitor’s locker room until it was like getting dressed in a sauna.

Tactics like this are as old as basketball. If you don’t like tactics like this then there are a lot of players to throw hate on. But you don’t make posts about how much of a jerk Draymond is, you jsut do it for Paul because your goal here is to specifically complain about the things Paul does to make you angry. And it’s inderstandable if fans of the team get a little angry and defensive about this because I genuinely do not remember a more hated squad existing in this sport despite them not really being as extreme as even other teams. .

But Kobe never did anything like this. He'd work harder than you to beat you on the court. Kobe would look at this and say "Soft."

[bondom34]

I mean, traditionally I like CP3. But there's no need to sugarcoat it either, he can be a jerk. This sounded like one of those instances.

[ShotCreator]

Gamesmanship? Gonna turn off the hot water in the visitor shower too?

The thing is that the Rockets have talked for a year about them being the better team. How about beating the Warriors straight up instead of pulling this crap. Or is gamesmanship the factor they missed most when Paul went out last year?

....Yes?

It's like Bull Durham, when Costner tells Robbins that when you're in the show, wearing shower shoes with mold makes you a character, but when you do it in the minors, it's just disgusting. Back in the day, the Celtics pulling that stuff added to their legend, but the Rockets didn't win, so Paul's move is just low class pettiness by someone who isn't good enough to win the game.

And I really don’t like defining the intent by the result of a games outcome.

It’s just...ugh. That doesn’t make sense.

Unless of course you mean that was the Celtics legacy as well.

But I really don’t understand why you won’t just say, “Chris Paul did this, I don’t like it, I don’t like him.” Versus actually trying mold events to reflect your emotion.

You just admitted it’d possibly have an effect on the game. A lot of why shooting splits are what they are for home/road teams is because of scheduling like that. That alone disqualifies it from being petty.

[Outside]

....Yes?

It's like Bull Durham, when Costner tells Robbins that when you're in the show, wearing shower shoes with mold makes you a character, but when you do it in the minors, it's just disgusting. Back in the day, the Celtics pulling that stuff added to their legend, but the Rockets didn't win, so Paul's move is just low class pettiness by someone who isn't good enough to win the game.

And I really don’t like defining the intent by the result of a games outcome.

It’s just...ugh. That doesn’t make sense.

Unless of course you mean that was the Celtics legacy as well.

But I really don’t understand why you won’t just say, “Chris Paul did this, I don’t like it, I don’t like him.” Versus actually trying mold events to reflect your emotion.

You just admitted it’d possibly have an effect on the game. A lot of why shooting splits are what they are for home/road teams is because of scheduling like that. That alone disqualifies it from being petty.

I'm perfectly fine with saying he did this and I don't like him for it. I would think that's clear from what I wrote. Can't I also say that I think it was a petty thing to do?

I never said I thought it had an effect on the game. I don't think it affected Curry's game at all. Which is why I think it's so petty. It made no difference and was just a jerk move with no real purpose other than to be a jerk move.

We've beat this to death and I wasn't planning on responding any more, but you seemed to have misconceptions about what I was saying.

[GSP]

Apparently hes been on the trade block and now theres reports Cp3 and Harden have been feuding. Another feud for Cp3 with a star player. Not a good look for him and his locker room narrative

I thought Cp3/Harden would have issues their first year together but everything seemed to go swimmingly. Now we're starting to see the creases

[eminence]

As a Utah fan I'd be interested in him if he's really on the block. I get it he's old and expensive. But in the near recent past he was a far higher caliber player than we'd have any hope of getting on the market. Even if running his own team doesn't give him a bit of an offensive jolt he's still still a very solid player.

[Lost92Bricks]

Apparently hes been on the trade block and now theres reports Cp3 and Harden have been feuding. Another feud for Cp3 with a star player. Not a good look for him and his locker room narrative

I thought Cp3/Harden would have issues their first year together but everything seemed to go swimmingly. Now we're starting to see the creases

All we heard was they had an argument after losing game 6. How does that turn into "they have been feuding"?

[jdzimme3]

wait, do some people not believe Chris Paul is a jerk?

[inquisitive]

Cp3 would be a great mentor for Zion

[TroubleS0me]

Cp3 would be a great mentor for Zion

umm...

[TroubleS0me]

Trade request bump

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