Luka Doncic ('24 NBA Scoring Leader) & Kyrie Irving - 23-24 NBA Thread

Post #241 » by **tsherkin** » Fri May 31, 2024 6:13 pm

frica wrote:Luka-Kyrie is like a modern Carmelo-Iverson.

But both of them are playing quality defense and reasonably efficient offense. And passing well, and not holding onto the ball too long. And the personalities don't line up.

And neither of them is a weak playmaker like Melo was. That's an awful comparison.

Ian Scuffling · Post #242 » by **Ian Scuffling** » Fri May 31, 2024 7:01 pm

tsherkin wrote:
frica wrote:Luka-Kyrie is like a modern Carmelo-Iverson.

But both of them are playing quality defense and reasonably efficient offense. And passing well, and not holding onto the ball too long. And the personalities don't line up.

And neither of them is a weak playmaker like Melo was. That's an awful comparison.

My thought, too. I was hoping it was sarcasm.

Post #243 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Jun 1, 2024 3:02 am

Ian Scuffling wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
frica wrote:Luka-Kyrie is like a modern Carmelo-Iverson.

But both of them are playing quality defense and reasonably efficient offense. And passing well, and not holding onto the ball too long. And the personalities don't line up.

And neither of them is a weak playmaker like Melo was. That's an awful comparison.

My thought, too. I was hoping it was sarcasm.

No green font, no /s, no context. Hard to tell, but I hope so as well.

TroubleS0me · Post #244 » by **TroubleS0me** » Tue Jun 4, 2024 5:06 pm

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GSP · Post #251 » by **GSP** » Thu Jun 13, 2024 3:59 am

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His defense has been horrendous all series too. Worst defender of the series of those getting big minutes by far. Only ppl like Hardaway Jr have been worse on defense

Djoker · Post #252 » by **Djoker** » Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:27 am

Luka fouling out is a really low IQ play. I'm honestly disappointed in him. He should have been nowhere close to Brown.

O_6 · Post #253 » by **O_6** » Thu Jun 13, 2024 3:58 pm

0 Dunks in 20 Playoff Games
2 Dunks in 70 Regular Season Games

2.3 FGA in Restricted Area in Playoffs (73rd in league)
3.8 FGA in Restricted Area in RS (84th in league)

Luka shoots very well at the rim but rarely attacks that area. He's become one of the best "tough-shot" makers I've seen. Arguably Top 3 of the last 15 years I've seen with Curry/Kobe. But unless he attacks the rim more, I think his efficiency will have a ceiling that will limit his impact. He's a 6'8" tank, he needs to try and get easier buckets inside.

oaktownwarriors87 · Post #254 » by **oaktownwarriors87** » Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:37 pm

Luka has been ISO'd 66 times so far in the playoffs and he's holding his opponents to 30% shooting.

Players that have been ISO'd the most since 2016:

84 Thompson 1.0 ppp (2016)
73 Looney 1.0 ppp (2018)
69 Horford 0.69 ppp (2022)
66 Doncic 0.64 pp (2024)

ShotCreator · Post #255 » by **ShotCreator** » Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:28 pm

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Luka has been ISO'd 66 times so far in the playoffs and he's holding his opponents to 30% shooting.

Players that have been ISO'd the most since 2016:

84 Thompson 1.0 ppp (2016)
73 Looney 1.0 ppp (2018)
69 Horford 0.69 ppp (2022)
66 Doncic 0.64 pp (2024)

I was just gonna post in the season thread, I think it's the Playoff Russell Westbrook theory of bad offense going on.

Draymond once said, when asked about stopping star players around the league, that you actually want Westbrook to gun it for the rim and force it to the cup.

All these ISO's where Luka is just giving guys the step is not actually conducive to their style of scoring, and playing. Especially when they're getting collapsed on heavily by help rotations.

There was a stretch where Harden was at 1.2 PPP in isolation for over a calendar year of basketball and people began to think isolation was easy offense(after years of ISO being looked at as inefficient, which it largely was and is), but then older Westbrook and CP3 flamed out of the playoffs on bad performances when forced to switch and isolate heavily. Now I think prime CP3 would've been "fine", just as he was in 2018 isolating so much, but it would've never been optimal. And that's whats happening to Boston. It's suboptimal.

I think if they played like the 14 Spurs and initiated more out of the screen game with sincerity, they can blow the top off the building and go out blazing.

But as it stands, Luka is playing within a team concept in half court and just funneling these guys, to competent help D. And when that's not happening they're just taking bad jumpers.

bballcool34 · Post #256 » by **bballcool34** » Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:47 pm

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Luka has been ISO'd 66 times so far in the playoffs and he's holding his opponents to 30% shooting.

Players that have been ISO'd the most since 2016:

84 Thompson 1.0 ppp (2016)
73 Looney 1.0 ppp (2018)
69 Horford 0.69 ppp (2022)
66 Doncic 0.64 pp (2024)

I mean does this capture how often Luka is able to actually stay in front of his man? And therefore all the guys who get by Luka easily leading to a scrambling Mavs defense and easy open shots for the Celtics?

Djoker · Post #257 » by **Djoker** » Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:40 pm

Honestly Luka hasn't been horrible on D. He's had breakdowns but he's also had some good possessions. But last night fouling out was inexcusable. You have to be smarter than that! He should be nowhere near Brown. It doesn't matter that it arguably was a charge but he shouldn't have put himself in that situation.

oaktownwarriors87 · Post #258 » by **oaktownwarriors87** » Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:57 pm

bballcool34 wrote:
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Luka has been ISO'd 66 times so far in the playoffs and he's holding his opponents to 30% shooting.

Players that have been ISO'd the most since 2016:

84 Thompson 1.0 ppp (2016)
73 Looney 1.0 ppp (2018)
69 Horford 0.69 ppp (2022)
66 Doncic 0.64 pp (2024)

I mean does this capture how often Luka is able to actually stay in front of his man? And therefore all the guys who get by Luka easily leading to a scrambling Mavs defense and easy open shots for the Celtics?

Of all the Mavs players with 20+ minutes played in the Finals (total, not per game), only Dereck Lively has a better defensive rating than Luka.

If his man can't score and the team plays better defense with him it's hard to so he's the problem on defense.

lessthanjake · Post #259 » by **lessthanjake** » Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:44 pm

There’s only been 26 minutes with Luka off the court in the Finals. And like 5 of those minutes were complete garbage time. I wouldn’t really put any stock in defensive on-off with the tiniest of sample sizes, as some kind of measure of individual defensive performance. Luka has been off the court for a grand total of 40 non-garbage-time possessions! With that kind of sample size, the eye test is a far better measure IMO.

TroubleS0me · Post #260 » by **TroubleS0me** » Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:39 am

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His defense has been horrendous all series too. Worst defender of the series of those getting big minutes by far. Only ppl like Hardaway Jr have been worse on defense

sounds familiar like LBJ before he won his 1st ring besides the defense part.