2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[SeniorWalker]

God Jokic is being wasted on Denver. So depressing watching this club

Let's not do this thing where we absolve the star of any and all blame. Jokic has not been his usual dominant self either so far and it's not just his teammates not hitting shots.

[RCM88x]

Smart winning is about one thing and one thing only: people do not like Rudy Gobert. Who is the best defensive player every year, but the media doesn't like him and so they hunted for anyone else.

It's an absolute joke.

Rudy has made All Nba the past 4-5 seasons and has 3 of the last 5 Dpoys.....how does the media hate him? youre acting like he has no accolades.....in fact hes been one of the most credentialed players in the league

Maybe they just got tired of seeing lineups like Maxi Kleber at the 5 negate his defensive impact?

The problem with this argument is that no NBA team ever will adjust their lineup to negate the "defensive impact" of Smart. Because he's simply not a impactful enough defender to bother with. Maybe you run an action away from him or something but that's it.

It's very arguable if Smart is even the 2nd best defensive player on his team let alone the best. Gobert is probably the only positive player on that end on his entire team...

[falcolombardi]

Smart winning is about one thing and one thing only: people do not like Rudy Gobert. Who is the best defensive player every year, but the media doesn't like him and so they hunted for anyone else.

It's an absolute joke.

Rudy has made All Nba the past 4-5 seasons and has 3 of the last 5 Dpoys.....how does the media hate him?

Maybe they just got tired of seeing lineups like Maxi Kleber at the 5 negate his defensive impact?

Have to agree. For every skip Bayless, there's at least a Zach Lowe or someone who is a disciple of advanced statistical impact. They're a dime a dozen now and rudy gets plenty of love from all over. He's a 3 time winner, it's just not valid to say he doesn't get a lot of love.

He definitely has his haters but he has plenty of lovers as well and that's why he's won so much.

I also think there's is legitimate question about him having a critical, exploitable weakness, though many here and elsewhere will deny it and say it's "all his teammates" fault.

but is true, a player cannot defend alone, gobert cannot protect the paint and defend the perimeter simulatenously, just like a lockdown perimeter defender cannot guard 2 guys simultaneously

if peak kawhi is screened he needs his teammate to help him in the 2 man play, if the opponent goes towards their second best scorer to avoid kawhi he cannot just go towards the ball so he needs his teammate to hold his own

same thingh with gobert, he can either defend kleber in the perineter or defend the paint, he cannot teleport to do both

[Doctor MJ]

Guess this begs the question, is Smart the worst DPOY since Payton?

Camby was far worse than either

My immediate thought as well.

While Smart is of course weak by DPOY standards, he does what he does as good as anyone.

Camry was just a guy whose height and no score resembled a top defensive anchor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sp6r=underrated]

God Jokic is being wasted on Denver. So depressing watching this club

Let's not do this thing where we absolve the star of any and all blame. Jokic has not been his usual dominant self either so far and it's not just his teammates not hitting shots.

This roster makes it impossible for Jokic to answer the questions you raise here. And there is no reason not to find it depressing because even if he played perfect they're getting their ass kicked

Right and I understand and have acknowledged that Jokic fills more holes than Curry
(that's what she said)
But ultimately what I'm questioning, what we have not seen yet and do not know, is what happens when Jokic does have a more balanced group. How successful can this team be, how much does Jokic impact drive that success? How much does he fit, or how well do others fit around him on a team that has real title aspirations? Can he lead a powerful ship? I predict we will see it, to me he is the modern day Larry bird, just two inches taller and if he gets a decently balanced team it is inevitable he will be in contention a few times. I want analyze the ship when that happens. Right now, I'm not taking anything away from him whatsoever, he actually blows me away with his intuitive play. But when I look at his advanced metrics, I have two conclusions: 1)he can do a heck of a lot on a basketball court and 2)the nuggets are playoff fodder. I think with most people 2 compounds the positives of the 1, I just have some caution with that. We need more, "different" data with Jokic. Different situations, not more of this singular carrying to mediocrity.

[itsxtray]

Jokic is too emotional which is something he needs to work on. That foul he committed against the suns last year, his retaliation against Morris and how the warriors have him tonight, dude gets too angry when he feels slighted and reacts emotionally.

[falcolombardi]

people who are smarter at X's and O's thsn me

are mike malone and jokic doing somethingh wrong or are they just being outtalented really hard out there?

i mean both defense and offense

[SeniorWalker]

God Jokic is being wasted on Denver. So depressing watching this club

Let's not do this thing where we absolve the star of any and all blame. Jokic has not been his usual dominant self either so far and it's not just his teammates not hitting shots.

This roster makes it impossible for Jokic to answer the questions you raise here. And there is no reason not to find it depressing because even if he played perfect they're getting their ass kicked

Right and I understand and have acknowledged that Jokic fills more holes than Curry
(that's what she said)
But ultimately what I'm questioning, what we have not seen yet and do not know, is what happens when Jokic does have a more balanced group. How successful can this team be, how much does Jokic impact drive that success? How much does he fit, or how well do others fit around him on a team that has real title aspirations? Can he lead a powerful ship? I predict we will see it, to me he is the modern day Larry bird, just two inches taller and if he gets a decently balanced team it is inevitable he will be in contention a few times. I want analyze the ship when that happens. Right now, I'm not taking anything away from him whatsoever, he actually blows me away with his intuitive play. But when I look at his advanced metrics, I have two conclusions: 1)he can do a heck of a lot on a basketball court and 2)the nuggets are playoff fodder. I think with most people 2 compounds the positives of the 1, I just have some caution with that. We need more, "different" data with Jokic. Different situations, not more of this singular carrying to mediocrity.

I completely agree with you and i said now is not the time to judge what he ultimately is.

I have a feeling he won't get that roster he needs in Denver but he's really only had one serious attempt at a run with a full roster there. Denver deserves a chance to get a healthy team around him.

[ronnymac2]

I haven't been able to root for GSW in years. I am remembering how fun they can be when they are your good guys.

[Peregrine01]

God Jokic is being wasted on Denver. So depressing watching this club

Let's not do this thing where we absolve the star of any and all blame. Jokic has not been his usual dominant self either so far and it's not just his teammates not hitting shots.

Teammates not being able to hit shots is a rather huge deal in offense. Warriors are making it hard for Joker to even catch the ball and pretty much ignoring everyone else. If they can't hit wide-open shots, the Warriors are just gonna pack the paint on Jokic, preventing him from hitting the offensive glass and speeding up the game. No one can go 1 on 5 and expect to come out on top, and especially not against this defense.

[SeniorWalker]

Wtf is going on with the nuggets bench/locker room? They've appeared to be fighting/arguing a few times tonight.

Not a good look, I thought they might get a game this series....

[RCM88x]

Let's not do this thing where we absolve the star of any and all blame. Jokic has not been his usual dominant self either so far and it's not just his teammates not hitting shots.

This roster makes it impossible for Jokic to answer the questions you raise here. And there is no reason not to find it depressing because even if he played perfect they're getting their ass kicked

Right and I understand and have acknowledged that Jokic fills more holes than Curry
(that's what she said)
But ultimately what I'm questioning, what we have not seen yet and do not know, is what happens when Jokic does have a more balanced group. How successful can this team be, how much does Jokic impact drive that success? How much does he fit, or how well do others fit around him on a team that has real title aspirations? Can he lead a powerful ship? I predict we will see it, to me he is the modern day Larry bird, just two inches taller and if he gets a decently balanced team it is inevitable he will be in contention a few times. I want analyze the ship when that happens. Right now, I'm not taking anything away from him whatsoever, he actually blows me away with his intuitive play. But when I look at his advanced metrics, I have two conclusions: 1)he can do a heck of a lot on a basketball court and 2)the nuggets are playoff fodder. I think with most people 2 compounds the positives of the 1, I just have some caution with that. We need more, "different" data with Jokic. Different situations, not more of this singular carrying to mediocrity.

I completely agree with you and i said now is not the time to judge what he ultimately is.

I have a feeling he won't get that roster he needs in Denver but he's really only had one serious attempt at a run with a full roster there. Denver deserves a chance to get a healthy team around him.

Even if Denver is healthy I don't know if they're a clear cut contender even in this uniquely competitive season. Murray and MPJ are both good players but I have a hard time seeing them as a favorite level team.

[SeniorWalker]

God Jokic is being wasted on Denver. So depressing watching this club

Let's not do this thing where we absolve the star of any and all blame. Jokic has not been his usual dominant self either so far and it's not just his teammates not hitting shots.

Teammates not being able to hit shots is a rather huge deal in offense. Warriors are making it hard for Joker to even catch the ball and pretty much ignoring everyone else. If they can't hit wide-open shots, the Warriors are just gonna pack the paint on Jokic, preventing him from hitting the offensive glass and speeding up the game. No one can go 1 on 5 and expect to come out on top, and especially not against this defense.

I understand that but I think in these situations it's up to the star player to impose himself a little more in 1 v 1 matchups. Thats how you get less talented teammates wide open. The warriors know he wants to pass first and they're playing him that way.

[falcolombardi]

the annoying part in all of this is that i can already see barkley and shaq ready to say "if jokic was a REAL mvp likr allen iverson he would WILL his team to a win"

and it becoming the popular narrative that is jokic fault lol

[GSP]

I haven't been able to root for GSW in years. I am remembering how fun they can be when they are your good guys.

Warriors will never be the good guys when Klay is the only likable player on the team

[sp6r=underrated]

Jokic is too emotional which is something he needs to work on. That foul he committed against the suns last year, his retaliation against Morris and how the warriors have him tonight, dude gets too angry when he feels slighted and reacts emotionally.

he is too emotional but his retaliation against morris was fine

[falcolombardi]

Let's not do this thing where we absolve the star of any and all blame. Jokic has not been his usual dominant self either so far and it's not just his teammates not hitting shots.

Teammates not being able to hit shots is a rather huge deal in offense. Warriors are making it hard for Joker to even catch the ball and pretty much ignoring everyone else. If they can't hit wide-open shots, the Warriors are just gonna pack the paint on Jokic, preventing him from hitting the offensive glass and speeding up the game. No one can go 1 on 5 and expect to come out on top, and especially not against this defense.

I understand that but I think in these situations it's up to the star player to impose himself a little more in 1 v 1 matchups. Thats how you get less talented teammates wide open. The warriors know he wants to pass first and they're playing him that way.

imo, is hard for a big to do this compared to a wing or even guard cause they dont have the handle to get to their spots completely on their own

is why i think is harder for a offensive big to carry a truly talentless offense

[sp6r=underrated]

the annoying part in all of this is that i can already see barkley and shaq ready to say "if jokic was a REAL mvp likr allen iverson he would WILL his team to a win"

and it becoming the popular narrative that is jokic fault lol

yup when you see teams like this you see why stars bail.

You get all the grief with no benefit.

[Peregrine01]

Let's not do this thing where we absolve the star of any and all blame. Jokic has not been his usual dominant self either so far and it's not just his teammates not hitting shots.

Teammates not being able to hit shots is a rather huge deal in offense. Warriors are making it hard for Joker to even catch the ball and pretty much ignoring everyone else. If they can't hit wide-open shots, the Warriors are just gonna pack the paint on Jokic, preventing him from hitting the offensive glass and speeding up the game. No one can go 1 on 5 and expect to come out on top, and especially not against this defense.

I understand that but I think in these situations it's up to the star player to impose himself a little more in 1 v 1 matchups. Thats how you get less talented teammates wide open. The warriors know he wants to pass first and they're playing him that way.

Except he's rarely playing 1 on 1, not even against Draymond. They're guarding him straight up at first but the Warriors send a second player once he puts down the ball for a second dribble.

[GSP]

Jokic has to drop 40 in game 3 doesnt even matter if they lose. He needs to show some spine and just dominate a game. He hasnt dominated a must win playoff game outside of the bubble.