Where would ‘97 MJ rank today?

[70sFan]

Of guards i have watched enough to be confident in this view

Tony allen

Peak wade

Bulls Jimmy butler

Jason kidd (pg but plays like a sg in defense a ton)

There is also sidney moncrief who i have not watched much film of yet but including him from rep as probable

If we expand it to guards in general who "play point guard" in defense i would add jrue holliday, frazier as strong options

Then there are the odd cases of big players who played guard in defense like andre roberson or ben simmons who i would handily take over jordan for D

Let's start with that I don't want to include Ben Simmons who isn't really a guard on defense.

Wade pick is interesting. Which years would you say Wade peaked on defensive end?

Allen, Kidd, Jrue and Frazier are all legit choices, they were fantastic. It still makes 1992 Jordan around top 5 defensive guard ever, which is fairly impressive given his offensive load.

After watching a lot of Moncrief games, I don't think I would call him a better defender than Jordan. Others I would consider are Jerry West, younger Dennis Johnson and Marcus Smart. Maybe I am forgetting someone now.

For wade his healthy seasons circa 2006-2011 are clearly better than what i have seen from 92 (and 93 months before) jordan defense. Less mistakes amd better help defense inside, albeit a bit easier to beat off ball/or off the dribble (i value the former thinghs more)

If he counts as a shooting guard i would add danny green too and i am fairly confident on peak defense butler>92/93 jordan

Note that i have not watched as many players as you are and this is only guys from the 00's and the few older guys i am more familiar with.

If i watched as many footage as you and others here i suspect i could double the picks. And move 92 jordan out of a top 10 guard defender (i can almost do it already just out of guys i am familiarized with: wade,kidd,frazier, jrue,danny green(?), smart,allen, butler)

To me this version of jordan has too high of a error rate to be that caliber of a defender and not enough motor/activity to make that weakness weight little in the aggregate

Do you not have -peak- moncrief over 92/93 jordan? Remember we are comparing that specific non peak version of jordan defense against everyone else. 88 jordan (who i admittedly have not yet game tracked as i have ring years) may be a top 3 sg defender but is hard for me to envision 92/93 jordan as one

When i finish game tracking more jordan games i can post some of my notes on them to show why i am not that high on that version

I don't know about peak Moncrief vs 1992 Jordan. I may go with Squid as Jordan definitely wasn't super consistent in those years.

I always like Squid's game, but after closer look at him, I don't view him as GOAT-tier guard defender anymore. I can post a thing or two about him if you wish.

[falcolombardi]

Let's start with that I don't want to include Ben Simmons who isn't really a guard on defense.

Wade pick is interesting. Which years would you say Wade peaked on defensive end?

Allen, Kidd, Jrue and Frazier are all legit choices, they were fantastic. It still makes 1992 Jordan around top 5 defensive guard ever, which is fairly impressive given his offensive load.

After watching a lot of Moncrief games, I don't think I would call him a better defender than Jordan. Others I would consider are Jerry West, younger Dennis Johnson and Marcus Smart. Maybe I am forgetting someone now.

For wade his healthy seasons circa 2006-2011 are clearly better than what i have seen from 92 (and 93 months before) jordan defense. Less mistakes amd better help defense inside, albeit a bit easier to beat off ball/or off the dribble (i value the former thinghs more)

If he counts as a shooting guard i would add danny green too and i am fairly confident on peak defense butler>92/93 jordan

Note that i have not watched as many players as you are and this is only guys from the 00's and the few older guys i am more familiar with.

If i watched as many footage as you and others here i suspect i could double the picks. And move 92 jordan out of a top 10 guard defender (i can almost do it already just out of guys i am familiarized with: wade,kidd,frazier, jrue,danny green(?), smart,allen, butler)

To me this version of jordan has too high of a error rate to be that caliber of a defender and not enough motor/activity to make that weakness weight little in the aggregate

Do you not have -peak- moncrief over 92/93 jordan? Remember we are comparing that specific non peak version of jordan defense against everyone else. 88 jordan (who i admittedly have not yet game tracked as i have ring years) may be a top 3 sg defender but is hard for me to envision 92/93 jordan as one

When i finish game tracking more jordan games i can post some of my notes on them to show why i am not that high on that version

I don't know about peak Moncrief vs 1992 Jordan. I may go with Squid as Jordan definitely wasn't super consistent in those years.

I always like Squid's game, but after closer look at him, I don't view him as GOAT-tier guard defender anymore. I can post a thing or two about him if you wish.

Would be really interesting if you get the time for it, would be very appreciated to compare later for when i eventually watch 80's bucks games

[falcolombardi]

What SGs would you take defensively over 1992 Jordan? Have you studied them this hard as well?

I'm asking this because sometimes when you study player's tendencies really hard you start to see more and more weaknesses. It may give you the idea that this player is overrated, but you have to keep in mind that you have to do the same process for all great defenders.

Of guards i have watched enough to be confident in this view

Tony allen

Peak wade

Bulls Jimmy butler

Jason kidd (pg but plays like a sg in defense a ton)

There is also sidney moncrief who i have not watched much film of yet but including him from rep as probable

If we expand it to guards in general who "play point guard" in defense i would add jrue holliday, frazier as strong options

Then there are the odd cases of big players who played guard in defense like andre roberson or ben simmons who i would handily take over jordan for D

Let's start with that I don't want to include Ben Simmons who isn't really a guard on defense.

Wade pick is interesting. Which years would you say Wade peaked on defensive end?

Allen, Kidd, Jrue and Frazier are all legit choices, they were fantastic. It still makes 1992 Jordan around top 5 defensive guard ever, which is fairly impressive given his offensive load.

After watching a lot of Moncrief games, I don't think I would call him a better defender than Jordan. Others I would consider are Jerry West, younger Dennis Johnson and Marcus Smart. Maybe I am forgetting someone now.

This is a quick edit of my notes (defense only for brevity) of jordan to illustrate the high error rate

https://youtu.be/eg2w0SgbkW4


Jordan vs knicks 1992


2:50  jordan commits to double on ewing, leads to easy pass and open shot (this play jordan risk heavy tendencies cause a costly mistake) specially bad choice to help off a shooter straight in ewing vision line and close enough to him for the easy pass

4:15  jordan telegraphed double cross the court completely abandoning his man, leads to open kick out shot and score by knicks (bad mistake)

6:00 knicks break, jumper, jordan athletic defensive rebound over ewing amd pass leads to pippen fastbreak and fts (good defensive play)

7:10 jordan good agressive defense in pick and roll makes knicks reset  (good play)-> 

over comits to prevent a entry pass by jumping while doubking ewing and leaving knicks ballhandler a shot or drive window, kincks player wastes it (bad mistake)

10:00 jordan fights hard for offensive rebound(), leads to late contest on his man on thr fastbreak (small negative) as it starts the defensive breakdown

10:20 ewing block on cartwright leads to break, jordan athletic run deflects the ball (high value play) good help from pippen rim protection corraling the ballhandler

13:50 jordan caught napping (costly mistake)

15:00 pippen bad mistake in sidepick and roll passes to a knicks player hands, jordan saves the play by deflecting the ball off bounds 1vs1 on the fastbreak (strong play)

then makes a good off ball D against a screen to deny a path (solid play)

16:30 gets beat in off ball curl for a drive (small negative), grant stops the layup and jordan runs the break

18:30 roams in the paint a bit too comittal for posible steal on the drive as his man gets open at the 3 point line, but knicks player doesnt think of doing a kickout  not a terrible overplay but the play could have been costly with a better passer so i will call it neutral 

20:45 team defensive breakdown in big part due to jordan taking a risk on a pass interception and not being able to recover well (costly mistake)

23:15 good off ball D movement (small positive) but fouls in the contest for fts (costly mistake)

32:40 feels like he may have overcommited a bit but not sure , tocall it a outright mistske/negative would be nitpicky so i will go neutral on this on

49:00 jordan turns his back on his mark to provide help in corraling D rebound, could have been costly if the ball ended in his mark hands with a better passer, but to be fair ewing was not a better passer or in a good angle to see the option there (neutral ish on this)


In this stretch alone Counted 6 significant mistakes /errors and 2 slight ones

Counted 2 big defensive plays and 5 small positive plays (worse mistakes than good plays)

I give him credit for being a strong 1vs1 link that knicks dont attack amd for solid off ball defense against screens but on the aggregate he is a rather unremarkable defender here

A mix of good off ball defense play (good at following players across screens), not tsrgeted by the D (actually rarely got to defend on-ball) and solid defense the few times he got to go 1 on 1 but i think the surprisingly high error rate neutralized the good impact

[70sFan]

For wade his healthy seasons circa 2006-2011 are clearly better than what i have seen from 92 (and 93 months before) jordan defense. Less mistakes amd better help defense inside, albeit a bit easier to beat off ball/or off the dribble (i value the former thinghs more)

If he counts as a shooting guard i would add danny green too and i am fairly confident on peak defense butler>92/93 jordan

Note that i have not watched as many players as you are and this is only guys from the 00's and the few older guys i am more familiar with.

If i watched as many footage as you and others here i suspect i could double the picks. And move 92 jordan out of a top 10 guard defender (i can almost do it already just out of guys i am familiarized with: wade,kidd,frazier, jrue,danny green(?), smart,allen, butler)

To me this version of jordan has too high of a error rate to be that caliber of a defender and not enough motor/activity to make that weakness weight little in the aggregate

Do you not have -peak- moncrief over 92/93 jordan? Remember we are comparing that specific non peak version of jordan defense against everyone else. 88 jordan (who i admittedly have not yet game tracked as i have ring years) may be a top 3 sg defender but is hard for me to envision 92/93 jordan as one

When i finish game tracking more jordan games i can post some of my notes on them to show why i am not that high on that version

I don't know about peak Moncrief vs 1992 Jordan. I may go with Squid as Jordan definitely wasn't super consistent in those years.

I always like Squid's game, but after closer look at him, I don't view him as GOAT-tier guard defender anymore. I can post a thing or two about him if you wish.

Would be really interesting if you get the time for it, would be very appreciated to compare later for when i eventually watch 80's bucks games

Here's my older post about Moncrief defense:

I think ironically, the biggest strength of Moncrief defense is his ability to read the game, position himself in the right position and switch onto bigger guys without giving up much. He was just a very sound defender who didn't do a lot of mistakes and could quietly impact the game without having a lot of great plays at the end of the game.

I also did some deep dive into the 1980s Bucks games and I came out relatively unimpressed by Squid's man defense and he was mostly praised for that. I think players like Cooper, DJ, Pressey or Twardzik were significantly better man defenders than him. He was very long and could contest jumpshots really well, his strength was also helpful in the post but his lateral quickness just wasn't there.

I always struggle to rank Moncrief's peak. On one hand, he's very versatile player who can give you a lot of value through his athleticism and agression. On the other hand, he had quite a lot of weaknesses for a star guard, even for his era.

Moncrief was a smart defender, but I struggle to view him as the ultimate shutdown man defender when he was blown by quite regulary and it's not like he was a massive pressence inside either.

[70sFan]

This is a quick edit of my notes (defense only for brevity) of jordan to illustrate the high error rate

https://youtu.be/eg2w0SgbkW4

Jordan vs knicks 1992

Cool, I will make my notes on your notes

2:50  jordan commits to double on ewing, leads to easy pass and open shot (this play jordan risk heavy tendencies cause a costly mistake) specially bad choice to help off a shooter straight in ewing vision line and close enough to him for the easy pass

I guess you may call it a mistake, but it was typical way to defend post bigs in the 1990s. It's not some huge risk play, it was typical coverage of post play.

4:15  jordan telegraphed double cross the court completely abandoning his man, leads to open kick out shot and score by knicks (bad mistake)

I agree, it's a horrible gamble.

6:00 knicks break, jumper, jordan athletic defensive rebound over ewing amd pass leads to pippen fastbreak and fts (good defensive play)

I agree.

7:10 jordan good agressive defense in pick and roll makes knicks reset  (good play)-> 

over comits to prevent a entry pass by jumping while doubking ewing and leaving knicks ballhandler a shot or drive window, kincks player wastes it (bad mistake)

1. It's a very good P&R defense.
2. Well... that's not something I'd call a mistake in the 1990s. Again, you can't use modern standards to 1990s games. Jordan did what most players would do back then.

10:00 jordan fights hard for offensive rebound(), leads to late contest on his man on thr fastbreak (small negative) as it starts the defensive breakdown

I guess you can call it a negative play, but as you said - it's a minor one.

10:20 ewing block on cartwright leads to break, jordan athletic run deflects the ball (high value play) good help from pippen rim protection corraling the ballhandler

That's very good defensive play indeed.

13:50 jordan caught napping (costly mistake)

Yeah, that's the ideal example of Jordan gambling not working - he could just stay in front of his man and nothing would happen, but instead Knicks got the advantage.

15:00 pippen bad mistake in sidepick and roll passes to a knicks player hands, jordan saves the play by deflecting the ball off bounds 1vs1 on the fastbreak (strong play)

Jordan was a terror in transition.

then makes a good off ball D against a screen to deny a path (solid play)

I agree.

16:30 gets beat in off ball curl for a drive (small negative), grant stops the layup and jordan runs the break

He got sloppy on that one without the ball, I'd call it a clear negative.

18:30 roams in the paint a bit too comittal for posible steal on the drive as his man gets open at the 3 point line, but knicks player doesnt think of doing a kickout  not a terrible overplay but the play could have been costly with a better passer so i will call it neutral 

I think it's important to note who Jordan guarded on this possession - Wilkins could hit an open three from time to time, but he wasn't a relevant shooter. Again, that's the type of defense a lot of guards performed back then - although I don't like Jordan's passiveness here - he didn't do anything to influence possession and gives Ewing potential pass.

20:45 team defensive breakdown in big part due to jordan taking a risk on a pass interception and not being able to recover well (costly mistake)

That's another typical Jordan play on defense, I don't like it.

23:15 good off ball D movement (small positive) but fouls in the contest for fts (costly mistake)

Eh, sometimes players get such calls. I wouldn't call it a clear mistake, at least without a better angle.

32:40 feels like he may have overcommited a bit but not sure , tocall it a outright mistske/negative would be nitpicky so i will go neutral on this on

I wouldn't call it a negative play either.

49:00 jordan turns his back on his mark to provide help in corraling D rebound, could have been costly if the ball ended in his mark hands with a better passer, but to be fair ewing was not a better passer or in a good angle to see the option there (neutral ish on this)

That's a bit nitpicky, especially because Jordan didn't really guard a shooter here.

In this stretch alone Counted 6 significant mistakes /errors and 2 slight ones

Counted 2 big defensive plays and 5 small positive plays (worse mistakes than good plays)

I give him credit for being a strong 1vs1 link that knicks dont attack amd for solid off ball defense against screens but on the aggregate he is a rather unremarkable defender here

A mix of good off ball defense play (good at following players across screens), not tsrgeted by the D (actually rarely got to defend on-ball) and solid defense the few times he got to go 1 on 1 but i think the surprisingly high error rate neutralized the good impact

I think you are a little bit too harsh on some of these plays to be honest. Remember that defense was played differently back then and things like doubling weak passing bigs in the post isn't something I'd contribute to Jordan gambling, but more of a typical strategy back then.

[falcolombardi]

This is a quick edit of my notes (defense only for brevity) of jordan to illustrate the high error rate

https://youtu.be/eg2w0SgbkW4

Jordan vs knicks 1992

Cool, I will make my notes on your notes

2:50  jordan commits to double on ewing, leads to easy pass and open shot (this play jordan risk heavy tendencies cause a costly mistake) specially bad choice to help off a shooter straight in ewing vision line and close enough to him for the easy pass

I guess you may call it a mistake, but it was typical way to defend post bigs in the 1990s. It's not some huge risk play, it was typical coverage of post play.

4:15  jordan telegraphed double cross the court completely abandoning his man, leads to open kick out shot and score by knicks (bad mistake)

I agree, it's a horrible gamble.

6:00 knicks break, jumper, jordan athletic defensive rebound over ewing amd pass leads to pippen fastbreak and fts (good defensive play)

I agree.

7:10 jordan good agressive defense in pick and roll makes knicks reset  (good play)-> 

over comits to prevent a entry pass by jumping while doubking ewing and leaving knicks ballhandler a shot or drive window, kincks player wastes it (bad mistake)

1. It's a very good P&R defense.
2. Well... that's not something I'd call a mistake in the 1990s. Again, you can't use modern standards to 1990s games. Jordan did what most players would do back then.

10:00 jordan fights hard for offensive rebound(), leads to late contest on his man on thr fastbreak (small negative) as it starts the defensive breakdown

I guess you can call it a negative play, but as you said - it's a minor one.

10:20 ewing block on cartwright leads to break, jordan athletic run deflects the ball (high value play) good help from pippen rim protection corraling the ballhandler

That's very good defensive play indeed.

13:50 jordan caught napping (costly mistake)

Yeah, that's the ideal example of Jordan gambling not working - he could just stay in front of his man and nothing would happen, but instead Knicks got the advantage.

15:00 pippen bad mistake in sidepick and roll passes to a knicks player hands, jordan saves the play by deflecting the ball off bounds 1vs1 on the fastbreak (strong play)

Jordan was a terror in transition.

then makes a good off ball D against a screen to deny a path (solid play)

I agree.

16:30 gets beat in off ball curl for a drive (small negative), grant stops the layup and jordan runs the break

He got sloppy on that one without the ball, I'd call it a clear negative.

18:30 roams in the paint a bit too comittal for posible steal on the drive as his man gets open at the 3 point line, but knicks player doesnt think of doing a kickout  not a terrible overplay but the play could have been costly with a better passer so i will call it neutral 

I think it's important to note who Jordan guarded on this possession - Wilkins could hit an open three from time to time, but he wasn't a relevant shooter. Again, that's the type of defense a lot of guards performed back then - although I don't like Jordan's passiveness here - he didn't do anything to influence possession and gives Ewing potential pass.

20:45 team defensive breakdown in big part due to jordan taking a risk on a pass interception and not being able to recover well (costly mistake)

That's another typical Jordan play on defense, I don't like it.

23:15 good off ball D movement (small positive) but fouls in the contest for fts (costly mistake)

Eh, sometimes players get such calls. I wouldn't call it a clear mistake, at least without a better angle.

32:40 feels like he may have overcommited a bit but not sure , tocall it a outright mistske/negative would be nitpicky so i will go neutral on this on

I wouldn't call it a negative play either.

49:00 jordan turns his back on his mark to provide help in corraling D rebound, could have been costly if the ball ended in his mark hands with a better passer, but to be fair ewing was not a better passer or in a good angle to see the option there (neutral ish on this)

That's a bit nitpicky, especially because Jordan didn't really guard a shooter here.

In this stretch alone Counted 6 significant mistakes /errors and 2 slight ones

Counted 2 big defensive plays and 5 small positive plays (worse mistakes than good plays)

I give him credit for being a strong 1vs1 link that knicks dont attack amd for solid off ball defense against screens but on the aggregate he is a rather unremarkable defender here

A mix of good off ball defense play (good at following players across screens), not tsrgeted by the D (actually rarely got to defend on-ball) and solid defense the few times he got to go 1 on 1 but i think the surprisingly high error rate neutralized the good impact

I think you are a little bit too harsh on some of these plays to be honest. Remember that defense was played differently back then and things like doubling weak passing bigs in the post isn't something I'd contribute to Jordan gambling, but more of a typical strategy back then.

You seem to generally agree with the vast majority of these except two main disagreemenrs

The foul on the contest and the offensive rebound attempt

The former is potentially a ref mistake without a better angle but generally speaking, commiting foul when closing out a jumpshoot is costly to a defense and is either the defender mistake or a ref mistake. Without a good review i would go with it as a negstive jordan play that costed ppints

The offensive rebound is trickier cause chsrging the boards hard is common practice at the time but it is also the consistent jordan tendency of going for the high risk/tough block/steal/etc which often bsckfired. It is not necesarrily a bad choice to go for a offensive rebound there. But is important to track the times it backfires too

If we dont mention every time a steal attempt/double/ offensive rebound attempt backfires for the defense but we count all the steals/blocks/deflections we can come away with a mistsken idea of how impactful that player was on D.

It would be the defense equivalent of keeping track of field goals hit but not the misses.aka scoring volume without accounting for efficiency

Defense being played that way at the time doesnt mean not keeping a tally of the defensive errors/breakdowns a player had playing that era style. Specially because jordan higher risk/higher reward approach led to more errors than most

[magicman1978]

Defense being played that way at the time doesnt mean not keeping a tally of the defensive errors/breakdowns a player had playing that era style. Specially because jordan higher risk/higher reward approach led to more errors than most

some of what you are calling errors are what players were taught to do though. So can you blame the player for not know better than their coaches and going against what they are taught?

[falcolombardi]

Defense being played that way at the time doesnt mean not keeping a tally of the defensive errors/breakdowns a player had playing that era style. Specially because jordan higher risk/higher reward approach led to more errors than most

some of what you are calling errors are what players were taught to do though. So can you blame the player for not know better than their coaches and going against what they are taught?

If i am evaluating his actual impact in defense of course i have to account for them as errors

Plays or decisions that help the opposite offenses have to be included as negatives in any evaluation of defense regardless of how you call them

Most of these plays signaled as errors had nothingh to do with scheme and all to do with the risk taking which jordan was notable for (his high risk/high reward approach has been well noted by most people who wat h him) or were outright lapses and bad reads in defense

Amd even the ones which were scheme/calculated risks backfiring would need to be accounted for when evaluating the efficacy of that player defense (you cannot praise a player for his deflections or steals -which i did- without accounting for the strike outs leading to defensive breakdowns too)

[The Explorer]

Best in the league.
I take it no one in this thread has seen the last dance and how many times MJ took matchups, other players getting recognition, fake slights, etc personally? He would use anything as fuel to propel him to be the best.

[HEAT33]

Any version of Bulls Jordan is instantly the best player in the league. Put that blunt down

[70sFan]

Any version of Bulls Jordan is instantly the best player in the league. Put that blunt down

You mean rookie Jordan as well? I don't buy it.

[tsherkin]

Any version of Bulls Jordan is instantly the best player in the league. Put that blunt down

You mean rookie Jordan as well? I don't buy it.

Of course you don't, because it's ridiculous.

[AEnigma]

Any version of Bulls Jordan is instantly the best player in the league. Put that blunt down

You mean rookie Jordan as well? I don't buy it.

Of course you don't, because it's ridiculous.

But did you watch The Last Dance? Have you not seen the “and I took that personally” memes?? What more do you need?????

[tsherkin]

But did you watch The Last Dance? Have you not seen the “and I took that personally” memes?? What more do you need?????

Indeed. That kind of BS belongs on the GB, not here on the PC Board, though, lol.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

The 13 people voting that Jordan would not be in the top 5 today have no clue.

Thinking that old LeBron, Jokic, Doncic, Gianis and Embiid and maybe Ja Morant are better than Jordan was is hard for me to fathom.


Embiid is not as good as Robinson, Hakeem and pre peak 1990s Shaq. Embiid vs Ewing is debatable. Those top centers were not as good as Jordan.

Doncic is like a lesser version of Bird with a much better drive than Bird and a better hand in his face 3 point shot than Bird. Jokic is like a bigger lesser Bird. Bird was not as good as Jordan.

Giannis is like a more athletic better dribbling less strong Karl Malone.
JA is like a shorter Jordan with a better outside shot than Jordan.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Any version of Bulls Jordan is instantly the best player in the league. Put that blunt down

You mean rookie Jordan as well? I don't buy it.

2nd year Jordan diced up the champion Celtics like a hot knife going through butter in the 1986 playoffs but coukd not lead that mediocre Bulls team to victory.

I think 2nd year Jordan who came back from a major injury was already better than anybody currently playing in the NBA.
Inthink 1986 Jordan was better than 1998 Jordan.
I can’t speak for Jordan’s rookie year.

[70sFan]

Any version of Bulls Jordan is instantly the best player in the league. Put that blunt down

You mean rookie Jordan as well? I don't buy it.

2nd year Jordan diced up the champion Celtics like a hot knife going through butter in the 1986 playoffs but coukd not lead that mediocre Bulls team to victory.

I think 2nd year Jordan who came back from a major injury was already better than anybody currently playing in the NBA.
Inthink 1986 Jordan was better than 1998 Jordan.
I can’t speak for Jordan’s rookie year.

Jordan had a wonderful game 2 when he did everything he could to beat the Celtics, but that's only one game. In the other two games Bulls were blown out quickly, both times the game was basically over before the start of the 4th quarter. So no, one game of brilliance isn't enough to say that Jordan is better than anyone else in the league. Especially since we have seen him next year playing similar way full season and he wasn't really clearly the best player in the league.

[HeartBreakKid]

Any version of Bulls Jordan is instantly the best player in the league. Put that blunt down

Yeah 95 Jordan killed it.

[The Explorer]

But did you watch The Last Dance? Have you not seen the “and I took that personally” memes?? What more do you need?????

Indeed. That kind of BS belongs on the GB, not here on the PC Board, though, lol.

I never referenced memes, but how is referencing the last dance and his intangibles and mentality BS? Also, please explain why bringing up intangibles does not belong on this board.

[falcolombardi]

But did you watch The Last Dance? Have you not seen the “and I took that personally” memes?? What more do you need?????

Indeed. That kind of BS belongs on the GB, not here on the PC Board, though, lol.

I never referenced memes, but how is referencing the last dance and his intangibles and mentality BS? Also, please explain why bringing up intangibles does not belong on this board.

You dont see how a documentary about michael jordan produced/supervised by michael jordan is a biased source?