2024-25 NBA Season Discussion

[RCM88x]

I'm pretty naïve when it comes to professional ball outside of the US. But is the NBA the only major league that has rules that differ significantly from the FIBA rules?

Yes, fiba rules are what basketball worldwide outside of usa use

Albeit philipines top league just introduced a 4 point shot

I feel like that has to be a massive disadvantage for the US. "Its still basketball" sure, but when you're playing by different rules that most guys are unfamiliar with, all it takes is a 6-10 point swing in a game to turn a blowout into a competitive game.

[Bob8]

I'm pretty naïve when it comes to professional ball outside of the US. But is the NBA the only major league that has rules that differ significantly from the FIBA rules?

Yes, fiba rules are what basketball worldwide outside of usa use

Albeit philipines top league just introduced a 4 point shot

I feel like that has to be a massive disadvantage for the US. "Its still basketball" sure, but when you're playing by different rules that most guys are unfamiliar with, all it takes is a 6-10 point swing in a game to turn a blowout into a competitive game.

The best players of every team are playing in Nba.

[Colbinii]

Yes, fiba rules are what basketball worldwide outside of usa use

Albeit philipines top league just introduced a 4 point shot

I feel like that has to be a massive disadvantage for the US. "Its still basketball" sure, but when you're playing by different rules that most guys are unfamiliar with, all it takes is a 6-10 point swing in a game to turn a blowout into a competitive game.

The best players of every team are playing in Nba.

While true, many top players on other teams have been playing FIBA style basketball for longer or as long as they have played in the NBA.

Then, moving beyond the best player(s) who play in the NBA, the vast majority of players on international teams play FIBA rules in their respective leagues.

[tsherkin]

I feel like that has to be a massive disadvantage for the US. "Its still basketball" sure, but when you're playing by different rules that most guys are unfamiliar with, all it takes is a 6-10 point swing in a game to turn a blowout into a competitive game.

The best players of every team are playing in Nba.

While true, many top players on other teams have been playing FIBA style basketball for longer or as long as they have played in the NBA.

Then, moving beyond the best player(s) who play in the NBA, the vast majority of players on international teams play FIBA rules in their respective leagues.

It also isnt that much different in concept. Shooting prevails. Hit the boards. Move, with and without the ball. Screen. Score. Athleticiam + skill still dominates. Like, 39 yo Lebron was killing it but the other teams all played pretty well. Much better competition than in 92, obviously.

[Bob8]

I feel like that has to be a massive disadvantage for the US. "Its still basketball" sure, but when you're playing by different rules that most guys are unfamiliar with, all it takes is a 6-10 point swing in a game to turn a blowout into a competitive game.

The best players of every team are playing in Nba.

While true, many top players on other teams have been playing FIBA style basketball for longer or as long as they have played in the NBA.

Then, moving beyond the best player(s) who play in the NBA, the vast majority of players on international teams play FIBA rules in their respective leagues.

You're talking like Fiba basketball is totally different game, it's not. The most important difference is defensive 3-seconds rule, other than that the best players in Nba still dominate in Fiba basketball too and are far the most important part of their NT. I would even say that Jokic is more dominant in Nba than in Fiba basketball and we could see how important was Curry's shooting. The difference is that many international players have important roles in Nba too and that makes their NT much more competitive than before. World just got better, luckily for USA there is too many countries in Europe. United European team would destroy USA.

[RCM88x]

Yes, fiba rules are what basketball worldwide outside of usa use

Albeit philipines top league just introduced a 4 point shot

I feel like that has to be a massive disadvantage for the US. "Its still basketball" sure, but when you're playing by different rules that most guys are unfamiliar with, all it takes is a 6-10 point swing in a game to turn a blowout into a competitive game.

The best players of every team are playing in Nba.

Sure, but those guys are significantly more familiar and experienced in FIBA rules than Americans are. These guys play by the FIBA rules for a month every few years with coaches who aren't used to coaching by them either.

I think this is why we've seen the last few Canadian teams struggle relatively speaking too. All of those guys are used to the NBA/American rules too, not FIBA.

It is the same game with the same skills sure, 95% is the same. But 5% is a lot, and like I said, a 6-10 point swing in a game because one team isn't familiar with the rules and one team is can be a difference in competition and a blowout.

[jalengreen]

The best players of every team are playing in Nba.

While true, many top players on other teams have been playing FIBA style basketball for longer or as long as they have played in the NBA.

Then, moving beyond the best player(s) who play in the NBA, the vast majority of players on international teams play FIBA rules in their respective leagues.

You're talking like Fiba basketball is totally different game, it's not. The most important difference is defensive 3-seconds rule, other than that the best players in Nba still dominate in Fiba basketball too and are far the most important part of their NT. I would even say that Jokic is more dominant in Nba than in Fiba basketball and we could see how important was Curry's shooting. The difference is that many international players have important roles in Nba too and that makes their NT much more competitive than before. World just got better, luckily for USA there is too many countries in Europe. United European team would destroy USA.

They certainly could win a BO1, just as France and Serbia could have won their BO1 against the USA. But I don't think it's a sure thing. Ultimately the European superteam would run into the same thing as Team USA where superstars thrown on the same team have to adapt to new roles and playing with guys they're not used to playing with. Just like we see with Team USA, a united European team would probably not be as good as they look on paper.

[falcolombardi]

I feel like that has to be a massive disadvantage for the US. "Its still basketball" sure, but when you're playing by different rules that most guys are unfamiliar with, all it takes is a 6-10 point swing in a game to turn a blowout into a competitive game.

The best players of every team are playing in Nba.

Sure, but those guys are significantly more familiar and experienced in FIBA rules than Americans are. These guys play by the FIBA rules for a month every few years with coaches who aren't used to coaching by them either.

I think this is why we've seen the last few Canadian teams struggle relatively speaking too. All of those guys are used to the NBA/American rules too, not FIBA.

It is the same game with the same skills sure, 95% is the same. But 5% is a lot, and like I said, a 6-10 point swing in a game because one team isn't familiar with the rules and one team is can be a difference in competition and a blowout.

I think that may be overreacting a bit to them losing vs the same team that beat fiba champions germany

Canada 2nd bigger volume guy had a tragic game looking out of shape (murray) and they were outmatched in the interior by french bigs

Shai did his thingh regardless and so did in smaller roles guys like nembhard

[falcolombardi]

While true, many top players on other teams have been playing FIBA style basketball for longer or as long as they have played in the NBA.

Then, moving beyond the best player(s) who play in the NBA, the vast majority of players on international teams play FIBA rules in their respective leagues.

You're talking like Fiba basketball is totally different game, it's not. The most important difference is defensive 3-seconds rule, other than that the best players in Nba still dominate in Fiba basketball too and are far the most important part of their NT. I would even say that Jokic is more dominant in Nba than in Fiba basketball and we could see how important was Curry's shooting. The difference is that many international players have important roles in Nba too and that makes their NT much more competitive than before. World just got better, luckily for USA there is too many countries in Europe. United European team would destroy USA.

They certainly could win a BO1, just as France and Serbia could have won their BO1 against the USA. But I don't think it's a sure thing. Ultimately the European superteam would run into the same thing as Team USA where superstars thrown on the same team have to adapt to new roles and playing with guys they're not used to playing with. Just like we see with Team USA, a united European team would probably not be as good as they look on paper.

Case in point. 2 years ago european teams led by doncic, jokic and giannis lost a tournament that a team led by near retirement ricky rubio won

These same olympics a josh giddey led australia almost sent jokic home

Is like people always forget that being the better team in talent doesnt mean 100% win rate

[Colbinii]

You're talking like Fiba basketball is totally different game, it's not. The most important difference is defensive 3-seconds rule, other than that the best players in Nba still dominate in Fiba basketball too and are far the most important part of their NT. I would even say that Jokic is more dominant in Nba than in Fiba basketball and we could see how important was Curry's shooting. The difference is that many international players have important roles in Nba too and that makes their NT much more competitive than before. World just got better, luckily for USA there is too many countries in Europe. United European team would destroy USA.

They certainly could win a BO1, just as France and Serbia could have won their BO1 against the USA. But I don't think it's a sure thing. Ultimately the European superteam would run into the same thing as Team USA where superstars thrown on the same team have to adapt to new roles and playing with guys they're not used to playing with. Just like we see with Team USA, a united European team would probably not be as good as they look on paper.

Case in point. 2 years ago european teams led by doncic, jokic and giannis lost a tournament that a team led by near retirement ricky rubio won

These same olympics a josh giddey led australia almost sent jokic home

Is like people always forget that being the better team in talent doesnt mean 100% win rate

Let's say the US has a 90% chance to win any given game. They play Quarters/Semis/Finals.

.90 x .90 x .90 = 73%

Give US a 95% chance it is still 86% to win all 3 games.

86% in Best-of-1 is terrific, but it isn't fail proof.

[RCM88x]

The best players of every team are playing in Nba.

Sure, but those guys are significantly more familiar and experienced in FIBA rules than Americans are. These guys play by the FIBA rules for a month every few years with coaches who aren't used to coaching by them either.

I think this is why we've seen the last few Canadian teams struggle relatively speaking too. All of those guys are used to the NBA/American rules too, not FIBA.

It is the same game with the same skills sure, 95% is the same. But 5% is a lot, and like I said, a 6-10 point swing in a game because one team isn't familiar with the rules and one team is can be a difference in competition and a blowout.

I think that may be overreacting a bit to them losing vs the same team that beat fiba champions germany

Canada 2nd bigger volume guy had a tragic game looking out of shape (murray) and they were outmatched in the interior by french bigs

Shai did his thingh regardless and so did in smaller roles guys like nembhard

Sure, it's not like they got destroyed by a nothing team. But they were a team a lot of people felt like were a strong sliver contender and they never looked like that. Always seemed to be less than the expected sum. Was the same last year in the WC.

[Doctor MJ]

Sure, but those guys are significantly more familiar and experienced in FIBA rules than Americans are. These guys play by the FIBA rules for a month every few years with coaches who aren't used to coaching by them either.

I think this is why we've seen the last few Canadian teams struggle relatively speaking too. All of those guys are used to the NBA/American rules too, not FIBA.

It is the same game with the same skills sure, 95% is the same. But 5% is a lot, and like I said, a 6-10 point swing in a game because one team isn't familiar with the rules and one team is can be a difference in competition and a blowout.

I think that may be overreacting a bit to them losing vs the same team that beat fiba champions germany

Canada 2nd bigger volume guy had a tragic game looking out of shape (murray) and they were outmatched in the interior by french bigs

Shai did his thingh regardless and so did in smaller roles guys like nembhard

Sure, it's not like they got destroyed by a nothing team. But they were a team a lot of people felt like were a strong sliver contender and they never looked like that. Always seemed to be less than the expected sum. Was the same last year in the WC.

I'm confused by this.

The Canadians only ever lost one game, they lost it to the eventual Silver Medalist, who was also the previous Silver Medalist, and in that game that team - also the host of the tourney - shot an absurd 42 free throws. Not looking to disparage what the French team accomplished, but this Canadian team could have quite easily ended up with the Silver, and had that happened Canada's only loss would have been to the US. Seems pretty impressive to me.

[Bob8]

You're talking like Fiba basketball is totally different game, it's not. The most important difference is defensive 3-seconds rule, other than that the best players in Nba still dominate in Fiba basketball too and are far the most important part of their NT. I would even say that Jokic is more dominant in Nba than in Fiba basketball and we could see how important was Curry's shooting. The difference is that many international players have important roles in Nba too and that makes their NT much more competitive than before. World just got better, luckily for USA there is too many countries in Europe. United European team would destroy USA.

They certainly could win a BO1, just as France and Serbia could have won their BO1 against the USA. But I don't think it's a sure thing. Ultimately the European superteam would run into the same thing as Team USA where superstars thrown on the same team have to adapt to new roles and playing with guys they're not used to playing with. Just like we see with Team USA, a united European team would probably not be as good as they look on paper.

Case in point. 2 years ago european teams led by doncic, jokic and giannis lost a tournament that a team led by near retirement ricky rubio won

These same olympics a josh giddey led australia almost sent jokic home

Is like people always forget that being the better team in talent doesnt mean 100% win rate

The problem of more or less all European teams is depth. Look at Slovenia for example, there is Luka, fringe Nba player Cancar few fringe Euroleague players and then you have half of the team that plays in 5th tier leagues. It can't be much different with 2 mio population. It would be totally different story, if at least ex Yugo players were playing together. USA has just incredible advantage in pool of players, that's why they are hard to beat, when they bring best players. Slovenia has 2 mio population, Lithuania 3, Croatia 4, Serbia 7, Greece 10... Almost impossible to compete against USA, when your second best player can't even be close of making USA team. European team , Jokic/Luka/Giannis/Markkanen/Wemby/Wagner/Sabonis/Bogdan...would be favourite against anyone. Now some of them can't even play in Olympics, because their NT is not good enough. Slovenia qualified only once in Olympics in its history. Just imagine, if you had 50 NT in USA. How many titles would you won?

[RCM88x]

I think that may be overreacting a bit to them losing vs the same team that beat fiba champions germany

Canada 2nd bigger volume guy had a tragic game looking out of shape (murray) and they were outmatched in the interior by french bigs

Shai did his thingh regardless and so did in smaller roles guys like nembhard

Sure, it's not like they got destroyed by a nothing team. But they were a team a lot of people felt like were a strong sliver contender and they never looked like that. Always seemed to be less than the expected sum. Was the same last year in the WC.

I'm confused by this.

The Canadians only ever lost one game, they lost it to the eventual Silver Medalist, who was also the previous Silver Medalist, and in that game that team - also the host of the tourney - shot an absurd 42 free throws. Not looking to disparage what the French team accomplished, but this Canadian team could have quite easily ended up with the Silver, and had that happened Canada's only loss would have been to the US. Seems pretty impressive to me.

I guess if you spin it that way, sure. But I never felt like Canada really had a shot at a medal, if they somehow made it past France, they lose to Germany. Obviously in a single elimination tournament the results are kind of up to chance, its more about process. With the "NBA" talent Canada had most people though they were the second most talented team. I never felt like they looked anything like that.

It is because those guys are more familiar with the NBA than FIBA rules which none of those guys play under outside of a few weeks every year or three? I feel like that has to be a factor.

[Texas Chuck]

I guess if you spin it that way, sure. But I never felt like Canada really had a shot at a medal, if they somehow made it past France, they lose to Germany.

Wait so what actually happened is "spin", but your opinion is fact? You can't state categorically they lose to Germany.

Also really hurts when one of their best players was terrible. A big part of why people were high on Canada was Murray. He didn't show up. Hard for any of the non-American teams to survive a key no show like that because none of them have an excess of top end talent.

[RCM88x]

I guess if you spin it that way, sure. But I never felt like Canada really had a shot at a medal, if they somehow made it past France, they lose to Germany.

Wait so what actually happened is "spin", but your opinion is fact? You can't state categorically they lose to Germany.

Also really hurts when one of their best players was terrible. A big part of why people were high on Canada was Murray. He didn't show up. Hard for any of the non-American teams to survive a key no show like that because none of them have an excess of top end talent.

Ehh whatever I've already typed way too much about this. If you asked anyone on the street they'd say that Canada disappointed by not getting a medal despite having a team full of NBA players. Weather that's fair or not is besides the point.

[Peregrine01]

Great video on Rudy here:

Watch on YouTube

[Outside]

Great video on Rudy here:

Watch on YouTube

Nice job of showing that all great post defenders get hunted in the playoffs, essentially drawing them away from the key where they are most impactful.

But the point about Gobert ultimately being a liability because he is so inept offensively? That's become painfully obvious over the course of his career. Other than putback dunks and the occasional pass for a dunk, he offers nothing on the offensive end. His hands are bad, like really bad. He has no timing or body awareness to convert lobs. He has no post game. It's painful to watch.

I have no idea if he doesn't put in the work to develop skills on the offensive end or if he is actually incapable. My guess is a combination of the two.

France basically benched him in the gold medal game because their other bigs were more impactful overall.

[Peregrine01]

Great video on Rudy here:

Watch on YouTube

Nice job of showing that all great post defenders get hunted in the playoffs, essentially drawing them away from the key where they are most impactful.

But the point about Gobert ultimately being a liability because he is so inept offensively? That's become painfully obvious over the course of his career. Other than putback dunks and the occasional pass for a dunk, he offers nothing on the offensive end. His hands are bad, like really bad. He has no timing or body awareness to convert lobs. He has no post game. It's painful to watch.

I have no idea if he doesn't put in the work to develop skills on the offensive end or if he is actually incapable. My guess is a combination of the two.

France basically benched him in the gold medal game because their other bigs were more impactful overall.

It's a shame cause his hands are all-time bad - maybe even worse than Kwame's. I think he gets hate from other players because of how awkward and gangly he looks for the same reason why players like PG get respect from others players because of how smooth his game looks.

[ShaqAttac]

Double-J better be a good coach