2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2661 » by falcolombardi » Mon Jun 7, 2021 3:21 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:I think 70sfan touched upon this somewhere, but seeing a series where Boban is getting important minutes against the opposing starting line up kind of exposed the idea that he would dominate older eras, and in general should warp some peoples perception on how useful large size is in certain eras.

When Boban got the ball down low he really didn't do much with it. His ball movement was very good, but in terms of creating his own shot it looked incredibly limited and was very unsophisticated. Most of the shots he made were more put back situations, and this is a guy who was often matched with perimeter players super down low - not other big boys. The idea that you're going to dump him in the 90s or 70s or whatever and he's going to go to town on every big was greatly exaggerated. Boban is a bench player because he's not good enough at the sport to be a starter, not just because he is too slow to defend the perimeter.

70sfan also mentioned this, but it DOES show that big guys can play with guys much smaller. In fact, Dallas was mega big - 7'3 and 7'4 PF and C listed. It wasn't a layup line or something from the other team. There are a lot of bigs that people say can't hang today (including bigs who are literally active and defensively dominant lol) because their perimeter defense would look too bad - but all those centers are much faster than Boban. And it's not like Boban looked like an NCAA player that can't hang in the NBA - he simply is a back up center and he played like one.

While on the topic, I was surprised about HOW Boban's defense was bad. I actually did not think his speed was that much of a problem. It was really his decision making. He made a lot of bad plays. He also would often close out way too much on role players outside, and of course they're going to drive on his ass. Now, if he was faster there would be more margin for error, but from what I noticed it seems like Boban's struggles on defense comes from not playing within his athletic ability.


i think it becomes exxagersted as most era related narratives are, but i definitely think perimeter defense is a weakness that older centers didnt have to worry that much about before

would it make, lets say shaq un playable today? no, but ir would reduce his defensive impact (i dont believe it would tire him more, post defense likely is more tiring)

would it make boban a superstar? no, but it would make him a less situational player and inprove his defense impact
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2662 » by MartinToVaught » Mon Jun 7, 2021 3:21 pm

Mazter wrote:The 4 remaining Western conference contenders combine for 0 titles in both NBA and ABA, they combine for an 0-5 Finals record. The last title won by 1 of the remaining teams was by the Sixers in 1982 (their third). Only the Hawks (1958) and the Bucks (1971) have won an NBA title, the Nets (74 and 76) won 2 in the ABA.

Adam Silver is probably salty as hell right now, but this is good for the league.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2663 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jun 7, 2021 3:25 pm

Boban cannot be starting deciding playoff games. He has his uses in spurts but for Rick to essentially conclude I have to ride Boban just shows how bad Maxi Kleber's achilles injury really was. I would have tried more WCS but I guess Rick didn't trust his decision making when they trapped Luka. Also shows what a failed bit Richardson was otherwise I think Dallas runs with KP as the lone big more.

But basically Rick felt like he had Luka, Dorian, and Tim, pretty much had to roll with KP and then just was grasping at straws beyond that. Brunson a non-factor. Got Trey Burke out there doing absolutely nothing in games 6 and 7. Ugh.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2664 » by HeartBreakKid » Mon Jun 7, 2021 3:44 pm

Why would Silver be salty? Nets vs Clippers is a potential finals match up with a ton of stars involved. NBA has been hoping those franchises could get going forever. If anything that is an ideal scenario that can very realistically happen.

The only thing Silver would probably be mad about is a Denver vs Utah conference finals.

Pretty much everything else the NBA can spin as pretty marketable. Sixers have a star and are a market that has needed help for a while. Sixers vs Hawks is a battle of two big markets that have been dormant and now have exposure and things to be excited about.

They invested a lot marketing Giannis for two years, so him in the finals or winning a title might get them some return. Clippers and Nets are little brothers who had no success, and can now finally get some traction in the two largest markets. Jokic wins a title the same year he gets an MVP in an untalented small market, they can at least take some of the criticism that small markets can compete. Phoenix is a decent market and has a couple of young stars who can now be useful names for years to come, as well as a redemption story to sell with CP3.


This was a very successful playoffs match up wise for the NBA if I had to guess. They all 4 mega market teams make the post season, including the Knicks which was not expected. They got to see the Lakers go against the Warriors in the play-in.

Just because the Lakers lose doesn't mean that the NBA has nothing else to draw with or invest in.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2665 » by mikejames23 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 3:50 pm

The Marjanovic adjustment was interesting. Now he's not Batum. Batum measures as a good defender in the 90th percentile category. Marjanovic plays limited minutes and posts high efficiency rates on those limited minutes, but he’s reserved to around 8 MPG in the RS. Still, Marjanovic looked like he was well suited for that role. What I found interesting was the size advantage Mavs had. Running Marjanovic and Kristaps at 7’3” and 7’4” together could've led to sheer destruction. Size matters when you play like this. Though their advantage didn't happen. The Mavs won the rebounding battle but it wasn't enough of an advantage over the Clips. Carlisle was good with Kristaps according to news sources, and Kristaps was good playing within the Mavs decided game plan, but I really wanted to see him kill it and go off. Tim Hardaway Jr. ended up taking over that role.


Chuck mentioned WCS and that's a good mention too. WCS would've been interesting but coaching doesn't trust him enough. WCS is a shot blocking, defensive type to mix things up.

Looking at boxscore, Clips were slightly better at eFG% and a good amount better at free throw draw rate, which led to the series W.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2666 » by falcolombardi » Mon Jun 7, 2021 3:54 pm

i think you guys are confunding nba with tv channels

nba promotes small markets/stars in their social media, not quite perfectly but they promete the whole product to some extent

is national tv media that only talks lakers or new York, and nba doesnt control those, only takes their money

what i think nba should really consider going forward is running more of their own tv and streaming media, tv is a dying business and league pass is a **** deal

if they went all in on streaming they could more easily survive cord cutting (which is only gonna get worse) and better promete their product
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2667 » by Dr Positivity » Mon Jun 7, 2021 3:59 pm

Nets Clippers would be great for ratings. Bucks or Sixers vs Jazz would probably not be.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2668 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:40 pm

falcolombardi wrote:i think you guys are confunding nba with tv channels

nba promotes small markets/stars in their social media, not quite perfectly but they promete the whole product to some extent

is national tv media that only talks lakers or new York, and nba doesnt control those, only takes their money

what i think nba should really consider going forward is running more of their own tv and streaming media, tv is a dying business and league pass is a **** deal

if they went all in on streaming they could more easily survive cord cutting (which is only gonna get worse) and better promete their product


Streaming isn't going to guarantee them the money traditional television continues to. Like it or not they are married to this model as long as it holds. And obviously they have smart people working for them who know it's not going to hold indefinitely so they will be pursuing alternatives. But you don't walk away from the trough when its still full of tasty tasty scraps.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2669 » by HeartBreakKid » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:44 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:i think you guys are confunding nba with tv channels

nba promotes small markets/stars in their social media, not quite perfectly but they promete the whole product to some extent

is national tv media that only talks lakers or new York, and nba doesnt control those, only takes their money

what i think nba should really consider going forward is running more of their own tv and streaming media, tv is a dying business and league pass is a **** deal

if they went all in on streaming they could more easily survive cord cutting (which is only gonna get worse) and better promete their product


Streaming isn't going to guarantee them the money traditional television continues to. Like it or not they are married to this model as long as it holds. And obviously they have smart people working for them who know it's not going to hold indefinitely so they will be pursuing alternatives. But you don't walk away from the trough when its still full of tasty tasty scraps.


What the heck kind of line is this? Do people in Texas actually say that or you just made that one up?
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2670 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:46 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:i think you guys are confunding nba with tv channels

nba promotes small markets/stars in their social media, not quite perfectly but they promete the whole product to some extent

is national tv media that only talks lakers or new York, and nba doesnt control those, only takes their money

what i think nba should really consider going forward is running more of their own tv and streaming media, tv is a dying business and league pass is a **** deal

if they went all in on streaming they could more easily survive cord cutting (which is only gonna get worse) and better promete their product


Streaming isn't going to guarantee them the money traditional television continues to. Like it or not they are married to this model as long as it holds. And obviously they have smart people working for them who know it's not going to hold indefinitely so they will be pursuing alternatives. But you don't walk away from the trough when its still full of tasty tasty scraps.


What the heck kind of line is this? Do people in Texas actually say that or you just made that one up?


Don't blame the great state of Texas. Chuck original bit of analogy gold right there. :wink:
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2671 » by parsnips33 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:56 pm

Never been less sure what team is coming out of the West. Both series should be very interesting
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2672 » by HeartBreakKid » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:02 pm

parsnips33 wrote:Never been less sure what team is coming out of the West. Both series should be very interesting


Jazz got this, I think.

they're way more talented than the Mavericks, have played better ball than them throughout the season (and the Clippers), and they're experienced.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2673 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:06 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
parsnips33 wrote:Never been less sure what team is coming out of the West. Both series should be very interesting


Jazz got this, I think.

they're way more talented than the Mavericks, have played better ball than them throughout the season (and the Clippers), and they're experienced.


I have Utah also, but I'd not be stunned if any of the 4 came out. Conley not being 100% I think returns Utah to the pack enough.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2674 » by HeartBreakKid » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:07 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
parsnips33 wrote:Never been less sure what team is coming out of the West. Both series should be very interesting


Jazz got this, I think.

they're way more talented than the Mavericks, have played better ball than them throughout the season (and the Clippers), and they're experienced.


I have Utah also, but I'd not be stunned if any of the 4 came out. Conley not being 100% I think returns Utah to the pack enough.

what happened to conley?
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2675 » by parsnips33 » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:08 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
parsnips33 wrote:Never been less sure what team is coming out of the West. Both series should be very interesting


Jazz got this, I think.

they're way more talented than the Mavericks, have played better ball than them throughout the season (and the Clippers), and they're experienced.


I have Utah also, but I'd not be stunned if any of the 4 came out. Conley not being 100% I think returns Utah to the pack enough.


What's up with Ibaka? Feel like he could be huge for Clippers in this matchup
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2676 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:09 pm

Hamstring. They weren't sure he was going to be ready for game 1 on Sunday if Dallas had won game 6. And he's been a bit limited with it even while playing.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2677 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:10 pm

Ibaka I think is still his back. I wouldn't count on anything from him. But Zubac should be back in play as the Jazz guards can't do to him what Luka did. And they need him against Gobert who will dominate inside if they try playing too small.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2678 » by HeartBreakKid » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:15 pm

Injuries are a concern for Utah and Phoenix, but I think the main reason those franchises are not seen as givens is due to lack of a superstar.

People are greatly overlooking that they are very deep teams, and unlike many deep teams that have failed - both those teams essentially have big 3s attached to them. They have enough top heaviness to perfectly compliment how deep they are.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2679 » by 70sFan » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:18 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:I think 70sfan touched upon this somewhere, but seeing a series where Boban is getting important minutes against the opposing starting line up kind of exposed the idea that he would dominate older eras, and in general should warp some peoples perception on how useful large size is in certain eras.

When Boban got the ball down low he really didn't do much with it. His ball movement was very good, but in terms of creating his own shot it looked incredibly limited and was very unsophisticated. Most of the shots he made were more put back situations, and this is a guy who was often matched with perimeter players super down low - not other big boys. The idea that you're going to dump him in the 90s or 70s or whatever and he's going to go to town on every big was greatly exaggerated. Boban is a bench player because he's not good enough at the sport to be a starter, not just because he is too slow to defend the perimeter.

Yeah, I think that people don't realize how good you have to be back in the 1970s to be a major star. Boban isn't unskilled player and I really like him, but he's not capable of being big part of your offense. Him struggling to post up small forwards isn't an indicator of having all-star qualities for other eras.

70sfan also mentioned this, but it DOES show that big guys can play with guys much smaller. In fact, Dallas was mega big - 7'3 and 7'4 PF and C listed. It wasn't a layup line or something from the other team. There are a lot of bigs that people say can't hang today (including bigs who are literally active and defensively dominant lol) because their perimeter defense would look too bad - but all those centers are much faster than Boban. And it's not like Boban looked like an NCAA player that can't hang in the NBA - he simply is a back up center and he played like one.

While on the topic, I was surprised about HOW Boban's defense was bad. I actually did not think his speed was that much of a problem. It was really his decision making. He made a lot of bad plays. He also would often close out way too much on role players outside, and of course they're going to drive on his ass. Now, if he was faster there would be more margin for error, but from what I noticed it seems like Boban's struggles on defense comes from not playing within his athletic ability.

This is also huge - Boban would be so much better defensively with higher BBIQ. He's slow, so he'd never be amazing defender but makes many mistakes and his reaction time is very slow. If you give him Marc Gasol BBIQ, he would be at worst average.

That's what makes Mark Eaton so much different than other giant stiffs. He had very unique timing and anticipation for someone this large. I don't think Eaton would be DPOTY in modern league due to spacing and constant switching, but I can't imagine any era when Boban would be as good as him defensively. There are entire tiers between them.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#2680 » by 70sFan » Mon Jun 7, 2021 5:21 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
parsnips33 wrote:Never been less sure what team is coming out of the West. Both series should be very interesting


Jazz got this, I think.

they're way more talented than the Mavericks, have played better ball than them throughout the season (and the Clippers), and they're experienced.

I really hope you're right... Utah winning first title in history would be amazing!

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