Retro POY '02-03 (ends Tue morning PST)

[Gongxi]

Don't you think ranking McGrady above Duncan requires a bit more justification?

There are quite a few here (even non-Laker/Kobe fans) that have Kobe ahead of McGrady, but only 1 person has Duncan lower than #1.

McGrady had a dominating, historical season as far as production on the court goes. Duncan...did not. Only one of them played like a prime Jordan or LeBron that year, and it wasn't Duncan.

Well, obviously you've put some more thought into this, so how can you justify putting Bryant over McGrady when every metric points to McGrady not only producing more, but more efficiently?

plays in the East - this is probably the last year you'll see me put anyone from the East in the top 5 this decade.

WTF? After we proved that Bryant played better against the West than he did the East? Woooooooooow. I think that's just code for "I'm a Kobe Bryant fan".

[Silver Bullet]

One player does not a sample make -

Here's how it looks when you look across the board - Performances against West (as oppossed to East)
Carter Significantly worse
Iverson Significantly worse
Paul Peirce Slightly Worse
Reggie Miller Significantly worse
Micheal Redd Worse
Shawn Marion Significantly worse
Micheal Jordan Worse
Micheal Finley Slightly Worse
Cuttino Mobley Significantly worse
Allan Houston Better
Latrell Sprewell Same
Tracy Mcgracy Significantly worse
Kobe Bryant Better
Ray Allen Significantly better
Rashard Lewis Significantly worse
Gilbert Arenas Significantly worse
Correy Maggette Worse
Jalen Rose Slightly Worse

[Gongxi]

But one player is the only one that matters in this case. The evidence shows that Bryant benefited from playing in the West that year. It doesn't matter what Cuttino Mobley did.

[Doctor MJ]

'02-03 Results

Code: Select all

Player             1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts   POY Shares
1. Tim Duncan       22   3   1   0   0 241   0.964
2. Kevin Garnett     2  13   3   4   3 141   0.564
3. Tracy McGrady     1   3  12   4   5 108   0.432
4. Kobe Bryant       0   3   6  12   1  88   0.352
5. Shaquille O'Neal  0   2   4   5  13  62   0.248
6. Dirk Nowitzki     0   1   0   0   3  10   0.040


[mopper8]

Wow, these Shaq stories are brutal.

It's almost like he read this thread and decided there just isn't enough fodder out there already:

Shaq partied every night in 05-06

The subject of a cover story in this week's Sports Illustrated, the Cleveland Cavaliers center said that the 2005-06 title season spent with the Miami Heat was a whirlwind.

"I never got any rest in Miami," he is quoted in the piece that focuses on his revival this season alongside LeBron James.

"I still don't know how we won that championship," he said in the piece that has been posted at SI.com.

That quote concluded with an expletive about how the constant that season was partying "every night in Miami."

From a 52-30 finish that season, the Heat dropped to 44-38 the following season, when O'Neal appeared in only 40 games, and then to 15-67 in 2007-08, when O'Neal essentially forced a midseason trade to the Phoenix Suns, blaming the Heat's medical staff for his inability to get back to the court.

[Gongxi]

"I still don't know how we won that championship," he said in the piece that has been posted at SI.com.

I have an idea.

[semi-sentient]

... and here I was thinking that he was busy getting himself conditioned.

I have no idea why he would come out and say that... lol. That only hurts his reputation more.

PS: Site updated with 02-03 results -- www.dolem.com/poy

Duncan dominating the all-time POY shares so far.

[sp6r=underrated]

... and here I was thinking that he was busy getting himself conditioned.

I have no idea why he would come out and say that... lol. That only hurts his reputation more.

PS: Site updated with 02-03 results -- http://www.dolem.com/poy

Duncan dominating the all-time POY shares so far.

Shaq is living proof that effort doesn't matter nearly as much as our parents told us.

Does anyone think Shaq would have made the NBA if he had the size and athletic ability of Joe Johnson?

[Sedale Threatt]

No. But as hyperbolic as this sounds, you're probably talking about one of the most amazing physical specimens the human race has ever produced. To be that big -- in proportion -- and that agile...how many can there have been? That's why he could slack off for extended periods and still be legendarily great.

[Doctor MJ]

Shaq is living proof that effort doesn't matter nearly as much as our parents told us.

Does anyone think Shaq would have made the NBA if he had the size and athletic ability of Joe Johnson?

Yes and no. The talent-to-effort ratio varies from enterprise to enterprise. The center position in basketball is as talent driven as probably anything else in human society. My other favorite sport is tennis, and if the most talented tennis player in the world picked up a racket at age 15, there's probably no chance he ever amounts to anything, because there is so much skill involved. And of course, when you get into non-athletics, it's generally even more non-talent based (though admittedly part of that is due to the unlevel playing field we're born into.

[Dr Positivity]

Any way I can change my vote? I'm not comfortable with Tmac above Kobe now. I ignored the vast difference in mental make-up between Kobe and Tmac before in terms of what I want out of my star, Kobe's icy competitveness and Tmac's Does He Care-ness are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Albeit I'm still punishing Shaq for zoning out this year

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Kobe
4. Tmac
5. Shaq

[Doctor MJ]

Any way I can change my vote? I'm not comfortable with Tmac above Kobe now. I ignored the vast difference in mental make-up between Kobe and Tmac before in terms of what I want out of my star, Kobe's icy competitveness and Tmac's Does He Care-ness are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Albeit I'm still punishing Shaq for zoning out this year

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. Kobe
4. Tmac
5. Shaq

Too late to change the results, perfectly fine with people adding to the thread with furthers thoughts on the subject.