Where does Kobe rank All-Time with another Repeat?

[NYK 455]

5 time champion
2 time Finals MVP
Regular Season MVP
2 time scoring champion
12 time all-star
8 time all-nba first team
8 time all-defense first team

yeah I would say that qualifies Kobe as top 6 all time

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Kobe
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem

that'll be the consensus top 10

[Iceman778]

yes you are right

[Asianiac_24]

Winning absolutely matters for All-Time rankings, or Wilt would be the clear cut GOAT. With another ring, Kobe is tied with Shaq/Duncan and would eventually pass them with a couple more top 5 player seasons.

[Gongxi]

Winning absolutely matters for All-Time rankings, or Wilt would be the clear cut GOAT.

Do you think Wilt's statistics are clear cut GOAT worthy? Why or why not? Are you taking into account pace when you do this?

With another ring, Kobe is tied with Shaq/Duncan and would eventually pass them with a couple more top 5 player seasons.

He's never been the better player, so that'd really be shocking and probably just something Laker fans would do. You guys can have your own rankings, though, I guess.

[eyriq]

...Kobe: 4 Titles, 1x finals MVP, led the post season in win shares 1x. 1x league MVP. Led the league in total points scored 4x and in PPG 2x. #17 in career PER, #20 in career win shares, and #26 in career win shares per 48min.

Kobe is a scorer. If he continues to have playoff success and gets another finals MVP than I'd say that though his regular season body of work over his career pales in comparison to any of the top ten I listed he would warrant a spot ahead of Robinson.

Edit: And Kobe ahead of Shaq is just flat out laughable.

[tkb]

I previously stated where I'd rank him, but left out my top 10 ranking which would look like this:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Bill Russell
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Tim Duncan
9. Shaquille O'Neal/Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Hakeen Olajuwon/Shaquille O'Neal

I have trouble picking between MJ and KAJ and think both have good arguments for the nr 1 spot. I more often lean towards MJ, so I guess I'd put him there, but other times find myself arguing for KAJ.

Also tough to separate Hakeem and Shaq IMO.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Unlike the Magic/Kareem pairing Shaq was the #1 player on those three championship teams. There is no argument. He's statistically superior, and anyone who have watched the 3 peat Lakers saw the offense was centered on Shaq, not Kobe. What really hurts Kobe's case for his credit of the 3 peat is that Shaq was just absolutely unstoppable.

Shaq was not unstoppable. All you had to do was foul him and send him to the free throw line. If your team had enough fouls to chew up, that was the way to stop him.

Why was Kobe the one who was making free throws at the end of close games?

Besides, Kareem was known as a second fiddle at the twilight of his career, so no one is putting him up high because they think he won six titles as the main go to guy, he wasn't. He is GOAT because of his excellence for nearly two decades. That's true longevity right there. Kobe has only been at it for ten years as one of the league's top players and he's already showing signs of decline, if he falls off either next year or right after that then we can put to rest that Kobe had a longer peak than either Duncan or Shaq.

Kareem still gets credit for six rings around here. Kobe only slowed down because of injury. I think you wish he was in decline.

[Wile E. Coyote]

...Kobe: 4 Titles, 1x finals MVP, led the post season in win shares 1x. 1x league MVP. Led the league in total points scored 4x and in PPG 2x. #17 in career PER, #20 in career win shares, and #26 in career win shares per 48min.

Kobe is a scorer. If he continues to have playoff success and gets another finals MVP than I'd say that though his regular season body of work over his career pales in comparison to any of the top ten I listed he would warrant a spot ahead of Robinson.

Edit: And Kobe ahead of Shaq is just flat out laughable.

Robinson in the top ten is laughable.

[Wile E. Coyote]

There is really no point to arguing with these guys. Kobe could average 10 pts on 25% shooting for the year, and if the Lakers won the Title that year, it's another ring for Kobe, justifying him over Shaq, Duncan, Bird, etc.

Who in this thread is arguing that?

Kobe is averaging 36+ minutes, 26/4/5 in the playoffs so far. And that's including a sub-par first round.

[KING JAMES1978]

I previously stated where I'd rank him, but left out my top 10 ranking which would look like this:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Bill Russell
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Tim Duncan
9. Shaquille O'Neal/Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Hakeen Olajuwon/Shaquille O'Neal

I have trouble picking between MJ and KAJ and think both have good arguments for the nr 1 spot. I more often lean towards MJ, so I guess I'd put him there, but other times find myself arguing for KAJ.

Also tough to separate Hakeem and Shaq IMO.

I'll put Kobe at 8 and Duncan still at 7.
Kobe 5 rings(2 as the leader)/2 Finals MVP/1 MVP
Duncan 4 rings(4 as the leader)/3 Finals MVP/2 MVP

Even if Kobe win his 5th still Duncan>Kobe in my book.

1.Jordan
2.Wilt
3.KAJ
4.Magic
5.Bird
6.Russell
7.Duncan
8.Kobe
9.Shaq
10.Robertson

[microfib4thewin]

Shaq was not unstoppable. All you had to do was foul him and send him to the free throw line. If your team had enough fouls to chew up, that was the way to stop him.

You do understand that there are 4 quarters in a game correct? If a team only tries to foul Shaq in the 4th quarter they might as well not bother when Shaq already demolished them in the first three quarters. Sure, let Shaq get his 40, THEN we foul him in the 4th as a futile attempt at getting him out of the game when we're already down 20. You are naive or ignorant to believe you can stop Shaq by fouling him. IIRC Shaq's 4th quarter FT during his prime was around 66%. Not very good, but good enough that he's not a liability.

Kareem still gets credit for six rings around here. Kobe only slowed down because of injury. I think you wish he was in decline.

-Kareem was a better player than Kobe when he won his first two titles in LA.
-Magic wasn't as good as 3 peat Shaq during that same period.

If you can say Pippen's 6 rings counts less than Kobe's 4, then I say 3 of Kareem's rings means much more than Kobe's.

[sp6r=underrated]

It is a joke that people are now ranking him over Shaq if they win.

[NYK 455]

It is a joke that people are now ranking him over Shaq if they win.

Yeah....and they must put Pippen in front of Kobe too, right? I mean, Pippen has more rings. Right?

[pancakes3]

are these comments just sour grapes, or boredom talking? stop bringing up pippen. it brings nothing to the conversation.

[Don Draper]

It is a joke that people are now ranking him over Shaq if they win.

It a joke and sad all at the same time. The revisionist History that goes around here is pretty ridiculous.

[NYK 455]

are these comments just sour grapes, or boredom talking? stop bringing up pippen. it brings nothing to the conversation.

Not really. People are putting Kobe over Shaq and Duncan, based on sheer number of rings, not role on the Championship teams or actual level of play. So I'm doing the same.

[An Unbiased Fan]

It is a joke that people are now ranking him over Shaq if they win.

Yeah....and they must put Pippen in front of Kobe too, right? I mean, Pippen has more rings. Right?

Pippen wasn't an 8 time All-NBA/All-D 1st teamer, for starters. So the comaprison is invalid.

Kobe has individual + team accomplishments that only a select few can claim. In the POY threads, Kobe has made the Top 5 each year he won a ring so far. So are we now saying that winning a ring as a Top 5 NBA player that year, isn't enough? Think about that for a second. Shaq didn't even recieve a vote in 2006, so does that regulate him to just 3 legit rings?

[NYK 455]

It is a joke that people are now ranking him over Shaq if they win.

Yeah....and they must put Pippen in front of Kobe too, right? I mean, Pippen has more rings. Right?

Pippen wasn't an 8 time All-NBA/All-D 1st teamer, for starters. So the comaprison is invalid.

Kobe has individual + team accomplishments that only a select few can claim. In the POY threads, Kobe has made the Top 5 each year he won a ring so far. So are we now saying that winning a ring as a Top 5 NBA player that year, isn't enough? Think about that for a second. Shaq didn't even recieve a vote in 2006, so does that regulate him to just 3 legit rings?

Stop changing the criteria for Kobe.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Yeah....and they must put Pippen in front of Kobe too, right? I mean, Pippen has more rings. Right?

Pippen wasn't an 8 time All-NBA/All-D 1st teamer, for starters. So the comaprison is invalid.

Kobe has individual + team accomplishments that only a select few can claim. In the POY threads, Kobe has made the Top 5 each year he won a ring so far. So are we now saying that winning a ring as a Top 5 NBA player that year, isn't enough? Think about that for a second. Shaq didn't even recieve a vote in 2006, so does that regulate him to just 3 legit rings?

Stop changing the criteria for Kobe.

How has the criteria been changed? A player's greatness is measurement by a combination of his individual + team accomplishments. Kobe won those rings as a Top player which is how every player in any team sport is measured.

[Blackfyre]

Kobe with 5 championships.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Magic Johnson
5. Wilt Chamberlain (overrated)
6A. Shaquille O'neal (underrated)
6B. Larry Bird
8A. Tim Duncan
8B. Kobe Bryant
10. Hakeem Olajuwon

If I had to choose between Tim and Kobe then I would probably take slightly Tim over him.