Can you name 15 players in NBA history better than Kobe?

[wallflower]

Hello there is no litmus test, just success. Two or three years ago he still had success (4 finals three 3 rings) and numbers I dont know what you are talking about?

I may lack critical thinking but you lack real world thinking. In the real world (sports or outside sports just not on forums) people value those who've shown their capable of delivering results. Kobe has done that. Guys like Lebron, Wade, TMac, Iverson, Mcadoo (lol?) quite simply haven't shown they can outside of hypotheticals.

[kabstah]

Kobe had no post-season success in 06 or 07 since he was ousted in the first round both times, and he wasn't statistically dominant in 09 or 10. His accomplishments from the 3 peat Lakers don't make him a better player 4 or 5 years later, otherwise Wizards MJ was still the best player in the game by virtue of what he did with the Chicago Bulls.

[Shot Clock]

This still ongoing?

There aren't 15 players you can name that are better then Kobe.

This whole thread was just chumming the waters and waiting to see what sharks would show up to fight over the stinky mess that would grow.

[Quincy]

It's funny, because I remember reading on this board that Kobe doesn't play above his regular season averages in the playoffs.

They must have been missing the playoffs then.

If you look at the post season, he's not the best in 06 or 07. If you look at statistics, he's not the best in 09 or 10. Which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

I don't wish to turn this into another Kobe vs. LeBron debate but you have to watch the games. I'm not claiming you don't, but everyone has different criteria for "best player".

Me? "Best player" and "best season" often get mixed up. LeBron has the latter locked up almost every year but Kobe is still smarter, more fundementally skilled, feared, etc. He comes up clutch on both ends of the floor many times and is a better leader. Excuse me for singling LeBron out but he really is(IMO) the only competition Kobe truly has.

I don't remember Kobe being the clear-cut best in 07-08 however, he did great up until the Finals though. That year didn't stand out for me.

No order for the lists below.

But anyway, players that are better than Kobe on the all-time list for sure.
Michael Jordan
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain

Players that I'm on the fence with or are debateably better; Close
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Shaquille O'Neal
Tim Duncan
Hakeem Olajuwon

He's legit top ten. End of story. And, truthfully, it shouldn't matter if you believe that he wasn't ever the clear-cut "best player" in the league. He's been top 5 since the 2001.

[RalphWiggum]

This list is not all about championships, it's about overall stats, on court ability, peak seasons and championships they would have won if you take Kobe off the Lakers for the last 14 and put said player in his place.

No Doubters it's not even close...at least for me
Magic
Jordan
Bird
Wilt
Kareem

Better but not by much
Russell
The Big O
Shaq
Dream
Duncan
K Malone

Toss ups but would definitely lean towards Kobe
Barkley
Admiral
Rick Barry (IMO severely underrated scoring machine)
Moses
Dominique
Iverson (imagine his prime 5-6 years with Shaq and with LA right now)

They were great but not Kobe great
Ewing
Baylor
Zeke
Stockton
Nash
West

So by my list I'd have Kobe just outside the the top 10 players ever as it stands now, by the time it's all said and done he should have a legit case for top 5, maybe top 3 depending on titles won.

[Warspite]

This list is not all about championships, it's about overall stats, on court ability, peak seasons and championships they would have won if you take Kobe off the Lakers for the last 14 and put said player in his place.

No Doubters it's not even close...at least for me
Magic
Jordan
Bird
Wilt
Kareem

Better but not by much
Russell
The Big O
Shaq
Dream
Duncan
K Malone

Toss ups but would definitely lean towards Kobe
Barkley
Admiral
Rick Barry (IMO severely underrated scoring machine)
Moses
Dominique
Iverson (imagine his prime 5-6 years with Shaq and with LA right now)

They were great but not Kobe great
Ewing
Baylor
Zeke
Stockton
Nash
West

So by my list I'd have Kobe just outside the the top 10 players ever as it stands now, by the time it's all said and done he should have a legit case for top 5, maybe top 3 depending on titles won.

DrJ? Hes not in your top 25?

[Jacks4]

MJ
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Wilt
Kareem
Hakeem

Kobe has a case over everybody else.

[jaypo]

I wanna throw this out there. Kobe has a case over many of the people below Hakeem and above. But imagine this scenario- people like Malone & Stockton and Barkley have no rings mainly because they played in the Jordan era. Yet, they have the numbers and accolades to be mentioned in the top 15. I actually use Kobe's body of work after Shaq as my example of his status. Imagine if Kobe's Lakers (not the 3 peat Lakers, because Kobe gets penalized for playing behind Shaq- most people are using what he did AFTER Shaq to show his greatness) had actually existed during the Jordan era. Do you think Kobe would have any titles except for the 3 peat titles? He would actually be in the same boat as Malone and Barkley in all probability. So when determining his place on the GOAT list, should that be taken into effect? I mean, Malone is the #2 leading scorer all time, and if he had a couple of rings, I'd bet he'd be up higher. Now, if Kobe hadn't won any rings but still put up the same accolades, how would he compare to someone like Malone?

(BTW- this can be discussed in the reverse order as well- what if Malone's Jazz played now, what if Barkley's 76rs and Suns played now, etc. How would they rank?)

[Jacks4]

Kobe would have gone down as top 15 ever even with 0 rings. He'd still have the outstanding peak, the incredible longevity, and many individual accolades (1st Team All-NBA's,MVP, some All-Defense teams).

[USA]

Jaypo,

That is one way you can look at it but I think that just opens a giant pandora's box. How many titles would Duncan have or Shaq have if they played during the Jordan era like Malone or Barkley? Where would they rank without titles? It just opens up far to many 'what if' or hypothetical situations. It is hard to compare era's when you are not playing against the same players, teams and game plans.

[J08]

I wanna throw this out there. Kobe has a case over many of the people below Hakeem and above. But imagine this scenario- people like Malone & Stockton and Barkley have no rings mainly because they played in the Jordan era. Yet, they have the numbers and accolades to be mentioned in the top 15. I actually use Kobe's body of work after Shaq as my example of his status. Imagine if Kobe's Lakers (not the 3 peat Lakers, because Kobe gets penalized for playing behind Shaq- most people are using what he did AFTER Shaq to show his greatness) had actually existed during the Jordan era. Do you think Kobe would have any titles except for the 3 peat titles? He would actually be in the same boat as Malone and Barkley in all probability. So when determining his place on the GOAT list, should that be taken into effect? I mean, Malone is the #2 leading scorer all time, and if he had a couple of rings, I'd bet he'd be up higher. Now, if Kobe hadn't won any rings but still put up the same accolades, how would he compare to someone like Malone?

(BTW- this can be discussed in the reverse order as well- what if Malone's Jazz played now, what if Barkley's 76rs and Suns played now, etc. How would they rank?)

what if is a horrible way to do rankings.

[jaypo]

I know. I just thought it be fun to rerank the GOAT list using that. For example, if Shaq played in the MJ era (oh, wait, he DID get thru MJ's Bulls!) or if TD did so, and if they won zero titles, would they be up there as well?

[FinalsMVP]

I can't name 5 better than Kobe.

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Magic
5. Kobe
6. Russell
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Shaquille
10. Dream
11. Oscar
12. West

[FinalsMVP]

Kobe's impact is about equal to Barkley's, so anyone that has had a better career than Barkley gets my vote. That list is:

1) Wilt
2) Hakeem
3) Kareem
4) Malone
5) Jordan
6) Duncan
7) Magic
8) Bird
9) Shaq
10) Ewing
11) Russell
12) Kobe
13) Barkley
14) Moses
15) Robinson

So no, there are not 15 players better than Kobe, in the history of the NBA.

[USA]

I wouldn't really say Shaq went through MJ's Bulls when MJ only played 17 games after a year in a half + out of the game. Not exactly peak MJ. Especially considering the very next season MJ's Bulls swept Shaq.

If we disregard championships and finals MVP's, then we have to go on stats and regular season accolades. In that case, I would put Malone, Duncan and Shaq above Kobe but not Barkley above Kobe. There is nothing to really support doing it. I do think Kobe, Duncan and Shaq fall a place or 2.

[FinalsMVP]

The thing is, Kobe has some of the highest scoring feats of all time. But he doesn't have the highest average, or best efficiency.

Why is that? BEcause tiny samples only tell half the story, his inconsistency causes a lot more "down games" than the other guys he's compared to scoring wise, that's why these single game numbers are dumb.

He scored 35 ppg for an entire season. I'm pretty sure that's a top 10 regular season of all time and probably the best of the modern era behind Jordan's 37ppg season.

Who knows what you're talking about.

[FinalsMVP]

Bryant obviously didnt play at the level of "2nd option" on the 2001 and 2002 title teams.

Neither did Shaq. But what Bryant DID do was play the #2 role in the offense. Because as I mentioned above, the Lakers ran the offense thru Shaq.

Just for fun, a few months ago in another thread, I posted stats for both players during their title years for the playoffs. And it basically debunked all those that say that Kobe was the only reason that the Lakers got TO the finals by his brilliant play during those other serieses. It showed that while Kobe did play well in those serieses, he didn't outshine Shaq as many of you would like to make it seem. Shaq played below his average in a couple of them (because of the improved defense in the Western Conference), but he was still able to get good efficient numbers.

Oh yeah, for the record, in their 8 year span, MVP shares were 2.62 for Shaq and .678 for Kobe, or an average of .33 to .08 per year. Just sayin!

Fact: Kobe Bryant was the number 1 option in the 4th quarter - the most important quarter. Fact: Kobe was better than Shaquille in the WC playoffs in 2001 and 2002.

So for me, Kobe's not a second option. Shaq and Kobe are partners.

[FinalsMVP]

Russel, bird, duncan, shaq, erving, and hakeem are not better thn kobe.
Dude kobe gets criticized for shooting a bad %, look at russells numbers he shoots 44% thats horrible for a centre. He won alot of rings but there was like 8 teams and his team was stacked.

Look at birds advanced stats and compare it to bryant. Birds advantage is only reb but kobe makes up for it with way better def and slightly better scoring.

Shaq had a better peak but not career.

Duncan only has mvps over bryant but bryant has more rings.

Horrible for a center in the modern era.

Year League FG% Rank
1956-57 NBA .427 (5)
1957-58 NBA .442 (3)
1958-59 NBA .457 (2)
1959-60 NBA .467 (4)

Four straight years in the top five? Not bad.

Dude, that's all the more reason to put Kobe over that fool. If .427 was fifth best in the league....

[Tim_Hardawayy]

This thread wouldn't be so bad if half the posters didn't have him on the borderline or just out of the top 15, and the other half didn't have him top 5 easily.

[Blame Rasho]

It really isn't possible because Kobe is in the 15 players of all time in my opinion.