PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

[Clyde Frazier]

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Good times, America

It's so embarrassing as an America that our systems are so dysfunctional. We're supposed to be the New World with all the great new ideas.

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This is well worth the watch. Some progress!

[Dr Spaceman]

Yup, if there is anything good that can come from this it is the sheer benefits of Universal Basic Income and Medicare for All. The fact is a society chooses to bat an eye to these potentially fantastic benefits and instead is focused so much on the stock market should hopefully wake people up from the cave they choose to live in.

It is probably not the right time to have this debate, but I am not convinced that Medicare for All is the answer. There are other routes to universal coverage. Medicare for All Who Want It is good policy and what most first world countries including Germany, Canada, and Ireland who have great Healthcare systems do, just doesn’t roll off the tongue quite as well.

That said, Sanders and Warren were the only candidates running on Universal health coverage from day 1- and so if their platform is Medicare for All, so be it, they get my vote. Having everyone covered Immediately>>>>having the ”perfect” system.

Agree on UBI- and I was thinking the other day this pandemic makes an awesome argument for it, assuming you could guarantee somehow the government does not go back on its promises. We wouldn’t have to worry at all about a quarantine if we had UBI. Glad a mainstream candidate has brought it up.

Yeah I may need to extend my backpacking trip with my girlfriend in the Rural South.

Have a great trip! Are you in the Appalacians?

[Colbinii]

Have a great trip! Are you in the Appalacians?

That was the plan originally but due to questionable weather and the first trip of the year we decided on central Missouri as a starting point and moved east from there, ending in St. Louis yesterday. It was warmer weather than where we are from [Twin Cities] and we enjoyed our time. We learned some disappointing things about Missouri [For example, they don't have a recycling system so even the State Parks told us to simply throw away our recycling]. One of our things we do when we visit new cities is go to an open mic comedy event in the city and it is always an interesting--often unforgettable time.

I did a loop in the Appalacians up in New Hampshire a few years ago and it was beautiful. We did the Pemi Loop and it was fantastic and couldn't recommend it enough if you get a chance.

https://www.hikingproject.com/trail/7009842/pemi-loop

[CKRT]

Have a great trip! Are you in the Appalacians?

That was the plan originally but due to questionable weather and the first trip of the year we decided on central Missouri as a starting point and moved east from there, ending in St. Louis yesterday. It was warmer weather than where we are from [Twin Cities] and we enjoyed our time. We learned some disappointing things about Missouri [For example, they don't have a recycling system so even the State Parks told us to simply throw away our recycling]. One of our things we do when we visit new cities is go to an open mic comedy event in the city and it is always an interesting--often unforgettable time.

I did a loop in the Appalacians up in New Hampshire a few years ago and it was beautiful. We did the Pemi Loop and it was fantastic and couldn't recommend it enough if you get a chance.

https://www.hikingproject.com/trail/7009842/pemi-loop

Oh shoot, where in the TC do you live? We just moved to Texas from Minneapolis (we lived in South and St Louis Park before that) to be closer to my wife's family since we have a young family. The lack of recycling or compost programs compares to Minneapolis is really shocking. Everyone here literally just throws everything away. Our city doesn't even have an optional recycling program that you could pay for.

[bondom34]

Oh shoot I think my parents hiked that or nearby last summer. We were up there like a week after my race, love NH.

[Colbinii]

Have a great trip! Are you in the Appalacians?

That was the plan originally but due to questionable weather and the first trip of the year we decided on central Missouri as a starting point and moved east from there, ending in St. Louis yesterday. It was warmer weather than where we are from [Twin Cities] and we enjoyed our time. We learned some disappointing things about Missouri [For example, they don't have a recycling system so even the State Parks told us to simply throw away our recycling]. One of our things we do when we visit new cities is go to an open mic comedy event in the city and it is always an interesting--often unforgettable time.

I did a loop in the Appalacians up in New Hampshire a few years ago and it was beautiful. We did the Pemi Loop and it was fantastic and couldn't recommend it enough if you get a chance.

https://www.hikingproject.com/trail/7009842/pemi-loop

Oh shoot, where in the TC do you live? We just moved to Texas from Minneapolis (we lived in South and St Louis Park before that) to be closer to my wife's family since we have a young family. The lack of recycling or compost programs compares to Minneapolis is really shocking. Everyone here literally just throws everything away. Our city doesn't even have an optional recycling program that you could pay for.

Yeah in Minneapolis we utilize the public compost so it must shocking going down to Texas!

I was shocked when we were checking out of our State Park and one of the Park Officers just said to throw away the recycling with the trash. Uhh what?

I had friends who lived in South on 13th and Lake. Going to Chicago-Lake Liquor was always a trip.

[eminence]

Starting running again recently (very light stuff so far, a light 30-40 6x a week, just base building), but what distance would y'all recommend training for - 5k or the 1/2? Only ever really raced in school, is it easy enough to find a couple races a year for the 1/2? Kinda leaning towards the 1/2 just cause I don't want to ever have to put in real speed work, lol.

[bondom34]

Starting running again recently (very light stuff so far, a light 30-40 6x a week, just base building), but what distance would y'all recommend training for - 5k or the 1/2? Only ever really raced in school, is it easy enough to find a couple races a year for the 1/2? Kinda leaning towards the 1/2 just cause I don't want to ever have to put in real speed work, lol.

I'm sure you can find a half if you'd like and are ready. I hate speed work and haven't done it since high school so understand lol. Most even decently sized cities have them.

[E-Balla]

Yup, if there is anything good that can come from this it is the sheer benefits of Universal Basic Income and Medicare for All. The fact is a society chooses to bat an eye to these potentially fantastic benefits and instead is focused so much on the stock market should hopefully wake people up from the cave they choose to live in.

It is probably not the right time to have this debate, but I am not convinced that Medicare for All is the answer. There are other routes to universal coverage. Medicare for All Who Want It is good policy and what most first world countries including Germany, Canada, and Ireland who have great Healthcare systems do, just doesn’t roll off the tongue quite as well.

That said, Sanders and Warren were the only candidates running on Universal health coverage from day 1- and so if their platform is Medicare for All, so be it, they get my vote. Having everyone covered Immediately>>>>having the ”perfect” system.

Agree on UBI- and I was thinking the other day this pandemic makes an awesome argument for it, assuming you could guarantee somehow the government does not go back on its promises. We wouldn’t have to worry at all about a quarantine if we had UBI. Glad a mainstream candidate has brought it up.

Yeah I may need to extend my backpacking trip with my girlfriend in the Rural South.

Have a great trip! Are you in the Appalacians?

Not even remotely true. Every single candidate but Biden, Amy, and Bloomberg I think ran on universal coverage, just not M4A.

As far as UBI goes it'd hurt more than help since it's a regressive tax paid for through sales tax. Poor people would have less money under a UBI system, even if it would mean people still had a quarantine income in this specific situation.

[eminence]

There's UBI and there's Yang's UBI.

[Colbinii]

As far as UBI goes it'd hurt more than help since it's a regressive tax paid for through sales tax. Poor people would have less money under a UBI system, even if it would mean people still had a quarantine income in this specific situation.

It isn't all paid through sales tax though.

Andrew Yang laid out a fairly detailed path to gaining the money needed for his UBI.

https://www.yang2020.com/what-is-freedom-dividend-faq/

As far as I know the main sources are current spending [re-distributing money already going to welfare systems and the like], a VAT, New Revenue generated by the plan and Taxes on Top Earners and importantly, producers/polluters. This doesn't really mention things like Military and other redistributing of other Government programs which will be less needed and don't run efficiently already.

Regards to VAT...

First, not all goods will be subject to the VAT. Staples such as groceries and clothing will be excluded from the VAT.

Second, the assumption that the entire VAT would get passed on to consumers is incorrect. Consumers are price sensitive, and the demand for most goods is at least somewhat elastic. While prices will likely increase on many goods, the increase will, for the most part, be smaller than the VAT as producers find more efficient ways to produce goods and adjust prices to maximize profitability.

Finally, an individual would have to buy a lot of non-exempt items in order to “cancel out” the value of the UBI. Assuming all goods are subject to a VAT and the entire VAT is passed on to consumers, an individual would have to buy $120,000 worth of items before the extra costs associated with a VAT “use up” their UBI

A VAT at half the European level would generate $800 billion in new revenue. A VAT will become more and more important as technology improves because you cannot collect income tax from robots or software.

[trex_8063]

Have a great trip! Are you in the Appalacians?

That was the plan originally but due to questionable weather and the first trip of the year we decided on central Missouri as a starting point and moved east from there, ending in St. Louis yesterday. It was warmer weather than where we are from [Twin Cities] and we enjoyed our time. We learned some disappointing things about Missouri [For example, they don't have a recycling system so even the State Parks told us to simply throw away our recycling]. One of our things we do when we visit new cities is go to an open mic comedy event in the city and it is always an interesting--often unforgettable time.

I did a loop in the Appalacians up in New Hampshire a few years ago and it was beautiful. We did the Pemi Loop and it was fantastic and couldn't recommend it enough if you get a chance.

https://www.hikingproject.com/trail/7009842/pemi-loop

Oh shoot, where in the TC do you live? We just moved to Texas from Minneapolis (we lived in South and St Louis Park before that) to be closer to my wife's family since we have a young family. The lack of recycling or compost programs compares to Minneapolis is really shocking. Everyone here literally just throws everything away. Our city doesn't even have an optional recycling program that you could pay for.

Is it a semi-major city? If so, that's really surprising.
Where I live [read: NOT Texas] it's automatic (weekly recycling pick-up), it's worked right into our other residential fees: so you're paying for it whether you utilize it or not. And there are additional drop-off sites for larger recyclable objects (large boxes, etc). I just figured most major municipalities did something similar in this day and age.

[Colbinii]

That was the plan originally but due to questionable weather and the first trip of the year we decided on central Missouri as a starting point and moved east from there, ending in St. Louis yesterday. It was warmer weather than where we are from [Twin Cities] and we enjoyed our time. We learned some disappointing things about Missouri [For example, they don't have a recycling system so even the State Parks told us to simply throw away our recycling]. One of our things we do when we visit new cities is go to an open mic comedy event in the city and it is always an interesting--often unforgettable time.

I did a loop in the Appalacians up in New Hampshire a few years ago and it was beautiful. We did the Pemi Loop and it was fantastic and couldn't recommend it enough if you get a chance.

https://www.hikingproject.com/trail/7009842/pemi-loop

Oh shoot, where in the TC do you live? We just moved to Texas from Minneapolis (we lived in South and St Louis Park before that) to be closer to my wife's family since we have a young family. The lack of recycling or compost programs compares to Minneapolis is really shocking. Everyone here literally just throws everything away. Our city doesn't even have an optional recycling program that you could pay for.

Is it a semi-major city? If so, that's really surprising.
Where I live [read: NOT Texas] it's automatic (weekly recycling pick-up), it's worked right into our other residential fees: so you're paying for it whether you utilize it or not. And there are additional drop-off sites for larger recyclable objects (large boxes, etc).

So I am in St. Louis right now and the only recycling service they have is in blue dumpsters at the ends of alley-ways and streets. If you choose to recycle you need to bring and drop-off your recycling bin at these locations.

Where I live in Minnesota [Eastern Suburbs of the Twin Cities, formerly in the city of Minneapolis which I do miss] we have weekly Garbage/Recycling pick-up and also the option to pay extra for Compost.

[Jaivl]

Starting running again recently (very light stuff so far, a light 30-40 6x a week, just base building), but what distance would y'all recommend training for - 5k or the 1/2? Only ever really raced in school, is it easy enough to find a couple races a year for the 1/2? Kinda leaning towards the 1/2 just cause I don't want to ever have to put in real speed work, lol.

400 meters

[eminence]

Starting running again recently (very light stuff so far, a light 30-40 6x a week, just base building), but what distance would y'all recommend training for - 5k or the 1/2? Only ever really raced in school, is it easy enough to find a couple races a year for the 1/2? Kinda leaning towards the 1/2 just cause I don't want to ever have to put in real speed work, lol.

400 meters

Lol, obviously

[E-Balla]

As far as UBI goes it'd hurt more than help since it's a regressive tax paid for through sales tax. Poor people would have less money under a UBI system, even if it would mean people still had a quarantine income in this specific situation.

It isn't all paid through sales tax though.

Andrew Yang laid out a fairly detailed path to gaining the money needed for his UBI.

https://www.yang2020.com/what-is-freedom-dividend-faq/

As far as I know the main sources are current spending [re-distributing money already going to welfare systems and the like], a VAT, New Revenue generated by the plan and Taxes on Top Earners and importantly, producers/polluters. This doesn't really mention things like Military and other redistributing of other Government programs which will be less needed and don't run efficiently already.

Current spending aka cutting welfare benefits for many people (the average family getting SNAP, TNAF, and Medicaid gets more than 1,000 a month).

And a VAT in inherently a regressive tax no matter how many things are excluded from it and it effectively is a sales tax. The prices for everything will increase for the consumer so that people that actually need the money won't see any extra benefits.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/who-would-bear-burden-vat

It also doubles as making it a million times easier for Republicans to starve the beast.

Regards to VAT...

First, not all goods will be subject to the VAT. Staples such as groceries and clothing will be excluded from the VAT.

Second, the assumption that the entire VAT would get passed on to consumers is incorrect. Consumers are price sensitive, and the demand for most goods is at least somewhat elastic. While prices will likely increase on many goods, the increase will, for the most part, be smaller than the VAT as producers find more efficient ways to produce goods and adjust prices to maximize profitability.

Finally, an individual would have to buy a lot of non-exempt items in order to “cancel out” the value of the UBI. Assuming all goods are subject to a VAT and the entire VAT is passed on to consumers, an individual would have to buy $120,000 worth of items before the extra costs associated with a VAT “use up” their UBI

A VAT at half the European level would generate $800 billion in new revenue. A VAT will become more and more important as technology improves because you cannot collect income tax from robots or software.

The issue with UBI is that families that need $1,000 a month already get more than that in government benefits. It's a handout to the middle class, and it's definitely not necessary when we have the poverty issues we have in the US. It's not 2100 yet we don't have a need for something like UBI and especially not something as useless to people in poverty as Yang's UBI proposal(specifying this for eminence ) which was seemingly designed to give him as much of the young college kid that would've been a Ron Paul fan a decade ago vote as possible.

[Zeitgeister]

Completely agree with EBalla on Yang's implementation of UBI, it's good for the middle class but it hurts poor people. Yang was running on UBI from the beginning and it wasn't until after some prodding that he even began to consider having it stack with other welfare benefits. His UBI from the original conception had more in common with Milton Friedman's idea than a left wing version. I'm not opposed to a UBI, it's just very important that it actually helps poor people instead of hurt them.

As to universal coverage of healthcare versus M4A, I think M4A was better than the alternatives that were proposed and I also think a lot of the moderates that ran on universal coverage did so as a response to Sanders position and the more growing popularity of M4A.

[E-Balla]

Completely agree with EBalla on Yang's implementation of UBI, it's good for the middle class but it hurts poor people. Yang was running on UBI from the beginning and it wasn't until after some prodding that he even began to consider having it stack with other welfare benefits. His UBI from the original conception had more in common with Milton Friedman's idea than a left wing version. I'm not opposed to a UBI, it's just very important that it actually helps poor people instead of hurt them.

As to universal coverage of healthcare versus M4A, I think M4A was better than the alternatives that were proposed and I also think a lot of the moderates that ran on universal coverage did so as a response to Sanders position and the more growing popularity of M4A.

Hillary proposed universal healthcare in the 90s and Biden was fighting for a public option a decade ago while trying to pass the ACA. The idea Sanders is the reason why current moderates want universal healthcare just doesn't vibe with reality.

I think Sanders is why a lot of the less moderate people said they'd support M4A if they could get it (think Kamala or Booker) but he's definitely not the first Democrat to want universal coverage.

[Zeitgeister]

Completely agree with EBalla on Yang's implementation of UBI, it's good for the middle class but it hurts poor people. Yang was running on UBI from the beginning and it wasn't until after some prodding that he even began to consider having it stack with other welfare benefits. His UBI from the original conception had more in common with Milton Friedman's idea than a left wing version. I'm not opposed to a UBI, it's just very important that it actually helps poor people instead of hurt them.

As to universal coverage of healthcare versus M4A, I think M4A was better than the alternatives that were proposed and I also think a lot of the moderates that ran on universal coverage did so as a response to Sanders position and the more growing popularity of M4A.

Hillary proposed universal healthcare in the 90s and Biden was fighting for a public option a decade ago while trying to pass the ACA. The idea Sanders is the reason why current moderates want universal healthcare just doesn't vibe with reality.

I think Sanders is why a lot of the less moderate people said they'd support M4A if they could get it (think Kamala or Booker) but he's definitely not the first Democrat to want universal coverage.

These healthcare plans are not the same though. Just recently Biden was unsure whether he would sign a M4A bill as president even if it went through all the necessary steps to sign into law.

I'm not sure how much Biden would even be talking about healthcare if it wasn't for Bernie's platform, not saying it wouldn't be brought up at all but it's undeniable the influence it has had. Pete Buttigieg's healthcare was a triangulation on Bernie's plan, same with Warren's frankly, Harris same thing along with Gabbard.

But sure, people have been fighting for some form of universal care for decades before Hillary was born.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Apparently yang had some sort of other thing with UBI that was detailed on his website but I dont really care about american politics and just liked him cuz he was asian and so i could meme to everyone else if he won

Also so testing for coronavirus is basically impossible and in korea its absurdly affordable. Korea has basically already past its peak in coronavirus cases despite there literally being a secret cult spreading it