PC Board Post-Merger Draft - Discussion Thread

[limbo]

So Dr.Positivity has basically managed to draft the 2016 Warriors on super steroids, lol...

Curry is Curry.

Ray Allen is just an all-around better version of Klay offensively (though defense is debatable, Klay isn't some elite defender, but he's a better man defender than Ray, fwiw).

Danny Green instead of Barnes is literally trading one of the best 3&D players for a subpar one.

Giannis is just a better version of Draymond. Defense and passing ability are debatable but Giannis absolutely kills Draymond as an offensive threat. Imagine Giannis with all this space... People whine about how Giannis has elite spacing currently on Milwuakee (which is true), but most of his guys are mainly spot-up shooters... Imagine Giannis with the greatest shooting backcourt of all-time level gravity... There's literally a highway to the basket for him.

I don't know who the starting Center is, but it doesn't really matter, lol. I think he picked Myles Turner, who's a solid piece. With this much talent on his team though, all he needs to do is help Giannis protect the paint and just fill in where he can offensively. Turner is athletic enough to be a lob threat but also has somewhat of a mid-range game... So he'll be fine.

Mike Miller is just more elite shooting off the bench...

How do you beat this team? Maybe making the game super rough and physical and trying to exploit Curry/Ray Allen on defense as much as possible? If it's a fast game this team is racking up points like nobody's business.

[Fadeaway_J]

I'm pretty happy with my squad as well. Kobe, Admiral, PG, and D-Will is a great core that fits nicely together, and the role players are rock solid. My only annoyance was not being able to snag one of the holy trinity of cheap PGs (Billups, Porter, Lowry) - for me D-Will isn't a step down from them as a player, but those extra FGAs would have been nice.

Earlier in this thread I asked a question of "Do you take personality into account?" and now I can say that I was really referring to Lillard vs. Kyrie. Personally, I do think Kyrie is a slightly better and more complete scorer when he's healthy. But I know some people think he's toxic so I was leaning Lillard. I think it's funny how you had a LeBron led team and took Lillard over Kyrie when that's a proven Championship duo, not that I disagree with your decision.

LOL my bad. I confused your team with Colbini's. Kobe/Robinson is a nasty duo and I thought you surrounded them well. D-Will was a handful when he played on the Jazz, I certainly considered him if I couldn't get the cheaper options. I loved your Bobby Jones pick. Such an underrated player.

I haven't done a FGA restriction draft before, I can definitely see the positive of it rather than an unrestricted draft. It created a lot of interesting scenarios.

ftr, just me personally, I draft Lillard over Kyrie for every team. It was debatable earlier in their career, but Lillard has continuing to emulate the bleeding edge and has become a someone who can now score with a volume/efficiency that would have made him a strong MVP candidate in other eras. And of course, that's before you factor in that that Lillard is such a great locker room presence, and Kyrie's world is flat.

Re: FGA restriction. I have super-mixed feelings about it, but I've come to the conclusion it's probably for the best. I dislike the artifice of it - reminds me of fantasy basketball - but I think it does encourage people to think more in terms of team basketball.

This is the conclusion I've come to after playing far too many of these for my health. We've tried a number of different alternatives - accolades, ppg, even mpg, but this is the one that comes closest to approximating realistic team-building. I don't like the fact that high-impact players like Dwight, Manu, Draymond, Reggie, etc. are basically assigned role player/solid starter values, but again, the alternatives come with their own issues. And drafting with no restrictions at all is a complete non-starter for me.

[limbo]

My basic reasoning for healthy Kyrie over Lillard is that I just think his deeper offensive repertoire makes him harder to stop than Lillard vs. an elite defense. But obviously that's a toss-up already, and that's not even taking into account Lillard proving to be much more dependable in terms of health and team chemistry. But that's a discussion we can have another time.

That may be the case, but i think it's important to also note that Kyrie and Dame weren't really playing on equal footing since 2015 (which is when Kyrie made his Playoff debut). Kyrie was the 2nd option behind LeBron and some very talented Cleveland teams which featured tons of shooting and veterans... A bit more easier to score effectively under those circumstances instead of being the top dog on your team and having very minimal help outside CJ.

[Hawk Eye]

Now that the draft is essentially wrapped up..

These were my top three steals of the draft (not counting low FGA role players)

1. Mark Price (round 5 - #69)
Dr. Positivity picking up yet another elite shooter after already surrounding Giannis with Curry, Ray Allen, and Danny Green was pretty insane. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Giannis surrounded by this amount and quality of shooters in these draft games.

2. Julius Erving (round 3 - #41)
Even though his ABA peak year is not eligible — which might have been what steered people away in the first place; this was still a tremendous get for Laimbeer. MJ, Stockton, and Dr. J in the first three rounds of a 16 person draft is really impressive.

3. Moses Malone (round 7 - #106)
Moses never seems to get a fair shake in these games. Even for Moses, in a 16 person draft this was a pretty steep drop. I think Texas Chuck has done a really good job surrounding Moses with the type of players to cover his deficiencies. I also loved the boldness by Chuck to take someone who is getting completely eviscerated on this board in another thread

[Odinn21]

Unless anyone has any major objections, I'm going say please draft your last players and finish your roster pages by 5 PM ET tomorrow 4/18. After that I'll randomize the players into 1-16 Playoff matchups.

I edited my message in the rosters thread. Should I do more or post it on a different page?

[Fadeaway_J]

Zo, T-Mac, Payton, Kemp, and Schrempf all went undrafted. Would not have predicted that.

[SHAQ32]

Zo, T-Mac, Payton, Kemp, and Schrempf all went undrafted. Would not have predicted that.

Yeah I was looking at 2000 T-Mac but couldn't fit him on the squizzad, smh.

Sabonis didn't get drafted either.

[Doctor MJ]

So Dr.Positivity has basically managed to draft the 2016 Warriors on super steroids, lol...

Curry is Curry.

Ray Allen is just an all-around better version of Klay offensively (though defense is debatable, Klay isn't some elite defender, but he's a better man defender than Ray, fwiw).

Danny Green instead of Barnes is literally trading one of the best 3&D players for a subpar one.

Giannis is just a better version of Draymond. Defense and passing ability are debatable but Giannis absolutely kills Draymond as an offensive threat. Imagine Giannis with all this space... People whine about how Giannis has elite spacing currently on Milwuakee (which is true), but most of his guys are mainly spot-up shooters... Imagine Giannis with the greatest shooting backcourt of all-time level gravity... There's literally a highway to the basket for him.

I don't know who the starting Center is, but it doesn't really matter, lol. I think he picked Myles Turner, who's a solid piece. With this much talent on his team though, all he needs to do is help Giannis protect the paint and just fill in where he can offensively. Turner is athletic enough to be a lob threat but also has somewhat of a mid-range game... So he'll be fine.

Mike Miller is just more elite shooting off the bench...

How do you beat this team? Maybe making the game super rough and physical and trying to exploit Curry/Ray Allen on defense as much as possible? If it's a fast game this team is racking up points like nobody's business.

The Curry-Giannis combination, with their shared tendency to thrive with speed and chaos, is just about the most terrifying offensive combo I can imagine (and Giannis has been my DPOY pick these past 2 seasons). I haven't gone through and analyzed each roster yet let alone thought about match-ups, but the moment I saw that I thought "I don't know what's beating that".

'grats to Dr. Positivity!

[Doctor MJ]

This is the conclusion I've come to after playing far too many of these for my health. We've tried a number of different alternatives - accolades, ppg, even mpg, but this is the one that comes closest to approximating realistic team-building. I don't like the fact that high-impact players like Dwight, Manu, Draymond, Reggie, etc. are basically assigned role player/solid starter values, but again, the alternatives come with their own issues. And drafting with no restrictions at all is a complete non-starter for me.

I think it's awesome you've put so much scientific thought into these. I think that projects like this when they go well are special.

The very first project I ever ran on the PC board, back in 2006, was an All-Time League without any restriction that I can recall, though maybe I'm missing something. We had 32 teams, I believe we drafted 12 deep, and always thought it went rather surprisingly well. Serious battles in the tournament and everything.

The next one was a few months later, run by another poster (tkb, who won the prior tournament with a Shaq-Kobe pairing). He made it 16 teams, added a FGA limit, and also made improvements in the logistics that made it just run more smoothly through the drafting process. I basically felt like the only change he made that I wasn't sure improved things was the FGA limit. I always saw both pros and cons to it. It kept some from making ridiculous teams, but it also led to bizarre choices that uglied teams.

But y'know...

It doesn't make sense to play with exact same parameters each time if you're going to keep doing this, so it would just be silly to assert no restrictions - the restrictions are what allows you to permutate the games like you do, so it's not really about what's the "best" set of restrictions any more I suppose, it's just about ways to play.

(btw, if memory serves, penbeast0 won the second tournament with a Shaq-Frazier combo. I marveled at the way very few of us ranked Shaq as the #1 peak GOAT, but push-come-to-shove, we seemed more impressed by him as a force than even Jordan.)

[Dr Positivity]

So Dr.Positivity has basically managed to draft the 2016 Warriors on super steroids, lol...

Curry is Curry.

Ray Allen is just an all-around better version of Klay offensively (though defense is debatable, Klay isn't some elite defender, but he's a better man defender than Ray, fwiw).

Danny Green instead of Barnes is literally trading one of the best 3&D players for a subpar one.

Giannis is just a better version of Draymond. Defense and passing ability are debatable but Giannis absolutely kills Draymond as an offensive threat. Imagine Giannis with all this space... People whine about how Giannis has elite spacing currently on Milwuakee (which is true), but most of his guys are mainly spot-up shooters... Imagine Giannis with the greatest shooting backcourt of all-time level gravity... There's literally a highway to the basket for him.

I don't know who the starting Center is, but it doesn't really matter, lol. I think he picked Myles Turner, who's a solid piece. With this much talent on his team though, all he needs to do is help Giannis protect the paint and just fill in where he can offensively. Turner is athletic enough to be a lob threat but also has somewhat of a mid-range game... So he'll be fine.

Mike Miller is just more elite shooting off the bench...

How do you beat this team? Maybe making the game super rough and physical and trying to exploit Curry/Ray Allen on defense as much as possible? If it's a fast game this team is racking up points like nobody's business.

Tbh I wasn't really trying to win this one, I was just having fun putting the most shooting I possibly could around Giannis after I got him and Curry. I think I'll probably lose if ardee does playoff matchups, since I'm guessing my team won't look as good when I have to match up Myles Turner with Kareem/Shaq or play against MJ/Erving or Harden/Durant with one good perimeter defender on my team. I have probably the best offense but not close to the best defense.

[Odinn21]

Tbh I wasn't really trying to win this one, I was just having fun putting the most shooting I possibly could around Giannis after I got him and Curry. I think I'll probably lose if ardee does playoff matchups, since I'm guessing my team won't look as good when I have to match up Myles Turner with Kareem/Shaq or play against MJ/Erving or Harden/Durant with one good perimeter defender on my team. I have probably the best offense but not close to the best defense.

I think you could have picked a very good rebounding big / center in 5th or 6th round over Price and Miller. I'd say rebounding is a bigger issue than defense. Giannis had 12.5 rpg average and Turner had 7.2. All of your other players are in 2-5 range.
Though I don't know which George Johnson you picked. The center or the forward?
Man, you selected a player with one of the most generic name in English.

[Fadeaway_J]

So Dr.Positivity has basically managed to draft the 2016 Warriors on super steroids, lol...

Curry is Curry.

Ray Allen is just an all-around better version of Klay offensively (though defense is debatable, Klay isn't some elite defender, but he's a better man defender than Ray, fwiw).

Danny Green instead of Barnes is literally trading one of the best 3&D players for a subpar one.

Giannis is just a better version of Draymond. Defense and passing ability are debatable but Giannis absolutely kills Draymond as an offensive threat. Imagine Giannis with all this space... People whine about how Giannis has elite spacing currently on Milwuakee (which is true), but most of his guys are mainly spot-up shooters... Imagine Giannis with the greatest shooting backcourt of all-time level gravity... There's literally a highway to the basket for him.

I don't know who the starting Center is, but it doesn't really matter, lol. I think he picked Myles Turner, who's a solid piece. With this much talent on his team though, all he needs to do is help Giannis protect the paint and just fill in where he can offensively. Turner is athletic enough to be a lob threat but also has somewhat of a mid-range game... So he'll be fine.

Mike Miller is just more elite shooting off the bench...

How do you beat this team? Maybe making the game super rough and physical and trying to exploit Curry/Ray Allen on defense as much as possible? If it's a fast game this team is racking up points like nobody's business.

Tbh I wasn't really trying to win this one, I was just having fun putting the most shooting I possibly could around Giannis after I got him and Curry. I think I'll probably lose if ardee does playoff matchups, since I'm guessing my team won't look as good when I have to match up Myles Turner with Kareem/Shaq or play against MJ/Erving or Harden/Durant with one good perimeter defender on my team. I have probably the best offense but not close to the best defense.

Not sure how the playoffs will go, but with Klay instead of Ray and a better defending backup PG I'd find it very hard to bet against you. Turner is iffy as a post defender either way of course, but going for a stretch 5 in this setting is always going to leave you with limited options.

[Texas Chuck]

Zo, T-Mac, Payton, Kemp, and Schrempf all went undrafted. Would not have predicted that.

I kept trying to figure out a way to justify Detlef, but after spending 3 of my first 4 picks on KG,AK47, and Grant Hill I just couldn't justify it. But believe me I wanted to.

I was also intentionally leaving center to the end with Moses my target figuring everyone else either had their center or wouldn't have the attempts left or both. But he was one of my backup plans along with Gobert and Jokic. The version in the NBA was kinda late career Marc Gasol 25 years earlier.

[Texas Chuck]

Tbh I wasn't really trying to win this one, I was just having fun putting the most shooting I possibly could around Giannis after I got him and Curry. I think I'll probably lose if ardee does playoff matchups, since I'm guessing my team won't look as good when I have to match up Myles Turner with Kareem/Shaq or play against MJ/Erving or Harden/Durant with one good perimeter defender on my team. I have probably the best offense but not close to the best defense.

Don't know if you will win or not, but it's an incredibly fun team. You should be really proud regardless how voting goes. I agree with Doc, I saw Giannis/Steph and went holy hell what are the rest of us supposed to do with this.

[SHAQ32]

So Dr.Positivity has basically managed to draft the 2016 Warriors on super steroids, lol...

Curry is Curry.

Ray Allen is just an all-around better version of Klay offensively (though defense is debatable, Klay isn't some elite defender, but he's a better man defender than Ray, fwiw).

Danny Green instead of Barnes is literally trading one of the best 3&D players for a subpar one.

Giannis is just a better version of Draymond. Defense and passing ability are debatable but Giannis absolutely kills Draymond as an offensive threat. Imagine Giannis with all this space... People whine about how Giannis has elite spacing currently on Milwuakee (which is true), but most of his guys are mainly spot-up shooters... Imagine Giannis with the greatest shooting backcourt of all-time level gravity... There's literally a highway to the basket for him.

I don't know who the starting Center is, but it doesn't really matter, lol. I think he picked Myles Turner, who's a solid piece. With this much talent on his team though, all he needs to do is help Giannis protect the paint and just fill in where he can offensively. Turner is athletic enough to be a lob threat but also has somewhat of a mid-range game... So he'll be fine.

Mike Miller is just more elite shooting off the bench...

How do you beat this team? Maybe making the game super rough and physical and trying to exploit Curry/Ray Allen on defense as much as possible? If it's a fast game this team is racking up points like nobody's business.

Tbh I wasn't really trying to win this one, I was just having fun putting the most shooting I possibly could around Giannis after I got him and Curry. I think I'll probably lose if ardee does playoff matchups, since I'm guessing my team won't look as good when I have to match up Myles Turner with Kareem/Shaq or play against MJ/Erving or Harden/Durant with one good perimeter defender on my team. I have probably the best offense but not close to the best defense.

What are your thoughts on my team? I'm a n00b at these.

[Fadeaway_J]

Zo, T-Mac, Payton, Kemp, and Schrempf all went undrafted. Would not have predicted that.

I kept trying to figure out a way to justify Detlef, but after spending 3 of my first 4 picks on KG,AK47, and Grant Hill I just couldn't justify it. But believe me I wanted to.

I was also intentionally leaving center to the end with Moses my target figuring everyone else either had their center or wouldn't have the attempts left or both. But he was one of my backup plans along with Gobert and Jokic. The version in the NBA was kinda late career Marc Gasol 25 years earlier.

I considered going for Schrempf at PF along with someone like Beverley, but I didn't like having only high-level creator off the dribble (Kobe) and I was also worried about Schrempf having to guard the Malones and Duncans of the world.

For a good while I planned to take Blaylock and move my defence from elite to GOAT level. Shame he was so inefficient though, it makes his best seasons too expensive for the level of player he was. D-Will was just much better bang for my buck at a similar cost.

[MisterHibachi]

I'm pretty surprised a guy like Jokic didn't end up getting drafted. He's the type that would fit well with other superstars and he's got some fans on this board. The FGA aren't too crazy either.

--

I think it would be interesting to rank the teams on each end of the court as well. Dr P probably has the best offensive team, but I would be interested in ranking each team by offense and defense. Perhaps before or after the playoffs.

[Dr Positivity]

So Dr.Positivity has basically managed to draft the 2016 Warriors on super steroids, lol...

Curry is Curry.

Ray Allen is just an all-around better version of Klay offensively (though defense is debatable, Klay isn't some elite defender, but he's a better man defender than Ray, fwiw).

Danny Green instead of Barnes is literally trading one of the best 3&D players for a subpar one.

Giannis is just a better version of Draymond. Defense and passing ability are debatable but Giannis absolutely kills Draymond as an offensive threat. Imagine Giannis with all this space... People whine about how Giannis has elite spacing currently on Milwuakee (which is true), but most of his guys are mainly spot-up shooters... Imagine Giannis with the greatest shooting backcourt of all-time level gravity... There's literally a highway to the basket for him.

I don't know who the starting Center is, but it doesn't really matter, lol. I think he picked Myles Turner, who's a solid piece. With this much talent on his team though, all he needs to do is help Giannis protect the paint and just fill in where he can offensively. Turner is athletic enough to be a lob threat but also has somewhat of a mid-range game... So he'll be fine.

Mike Miller is just more elite shooting off the bench...

How do you beat this team? Maybe making the game super rough and physical and trying to exploit Curry/Ray Allen on defense as much as possible? If it's a fast game this team is racking up points like nobody's business.

Tbh I wasn't really trying to win this one, I was just having fun putting the most shooting I possibly could around Giannis after I got him and Curry. I think I'll probably lose if ardee does playoff matchups, since I'm guessing my team won't look as good when I have to match up Myles Turner with Kareem/Shaq or play against MJ/Erving or Harden/Durant with one good perimeter defender on my team. I have probably the best offense but not close to the best defense.

What are your thoughts on my team? I'm a n00b at these.

Looks pretty good, having both Harden and Love definitely tilts you towards elite offense weaker defense compared to this pool, but I like that your team goes 8 deep which is more than I can say.

[Dr Positivity]

[
I think you could have picked a very good rebounding big / center in 5th or 6th round over Price and Miller. I'd say rebounding is a bigger issue than defense. Giannis had 12.5 rpg average and Turner had 7.2. All of your other players are in 2-5 range.
Though I don't know which George Johnson you picked. The center or the forward?
Man, you selected a player with one of the most generic name in English.

George Johnson is a sneaky T&T board favorite for backup centers, he once led the league with 3.1 blks in 21 minutes per game (5.3 blks per 36) in 82, and only using 2.6 FGA.

He also has a season 4 years later where he put up 0.6 FGA. (Still blocking 5 shots per 36, but in 41 games and 6 minutes per game) which is useful to punt the 8 minute backup center. Which happens to be the season I'm using

[Orin]

I really enjoyed reading this thread and seeing you guys build your rosters. I'm excited for the playoffs!

Biggest surprises for me on top of my head are Jokic, McHale, Mourning and Tony Allen not getting picked up. I understand that they are flawed players but I feel like their value to fga ratio is really really really good.