2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[therealbig3]

Anyway, Clippers gotta figure out how to defend these perimeter stars. No Conley, so Mitchell was like the one explosive threat on the perimeter that they had to worry about, and he still went off for 45. Got eviscerated by Luka last round, and he really didn't have much help at all.

Say Conley stays hurt, and the Clippers do rally past and beat the Jazz despite a big series from Mitchell...they're gonna be going up against teams with multiple All-Star scorers on the perimeter, what are they gonna do then? Suns have Paul and Booker, and if the Nets make the Finals, I see their big 3 having an absolute field day against this defense.

[Dupp]

Clippers defense really sucks to be honest. This kawhi and pg pairing happened about 5 years too late

[70sFan]

Unfortunately, I missed both games but I'm glad that Utah won the first game. In this series, every win counts a lot. It's not overmatched Memphis team anymore, Kawhi will punish you gor every moment of weakness.

[therealbig3]

Clippers defense really sucks to be honest. This kawhi and pg plaiting happened about 5 years too late

The constant changing of your lifelong allegiance and your location are hilarious btw, you're killing it lately lol.

[therealbig3]

Getting the vibe lately that Jokic now is better than peak Dirk. At least nobody has outright said it, but given the comparisons he's getting in terms of his offensive abilities (seen him called a Bird/Dirk hybrid, and there's a thread comparing him to peak LeBron offensively), is the consensus that he's surpassed Dirk?

Are we ready to accept that at this point, or do we still need to see more from Jokic?

[HeartBreakKid]

what were the jazz fans chanting at paul george when he was on the line?

Overrated

I heard that part, but earlier in the game they were chanting something that sounded like "Playoff P".

[Dupp]

what were the jazz fans chanting at paul george when he was on the line?

Overrated

I heard that part, but earlier in the game they were chanting something that sounded like "Playoff P".

That’s literally what they were chanting. Playoff p is a big meme at this point.

[HeartBreakKid]

Overrated

I heard that part, but earlier in the game they were chanting something that sounded like "Playoff P".

That’s literally what they were chanting. Playoff p is a big meme at this point.

Ah, okay. Wasn't sure if they were saying Wayoff P or not.

I do admire that crowds can use sarcasm now.

[Jaivl]

Getting the vibe lately that Jokic now is better than peak Dirk. At least nobody has outright said it, but given the comparisons he's getting in terms of his offensive abilities (seen him called a Bird/Dirk hybrid, and there's a thread comparing him to peak LeBron offensively), is the consensus that he's surpassed Dirk?

Are we ready to accept that at this point, or do we still need to see more from Jokic?

He's around that range for me, better offensively/worse defensively.

[Dr Positivity]

what were the jazz fans chanting at paul george when he was on the line?

Overrated

I heard that part, but earlier in the game they were chanting something that sounded like "Playoff P".

I think there was some Pushoff P at one point

[parsnips33]

I think Clippers can feel good about that game, almost won without good games from Kawhi and PG. Granted, Conley can come back any game now and make Utah even harder to defend.

What was Kennard doing out there in the 4th? Mitchell was just eating him alive, have a hard time believing Batum or Terrance Mann wouldn't have done a better job.

Also I've definitely been skeptical of Mitchell (mostly because of his size) and thought he was a bubble beneficiary last year, but taking control of that game in such a commanding manner was super impressive

[parsnips33]

Also the skill level between Jokic and Embiid is absolutely ridiculous. Who would've thought this is what the center position would be even 5 years ago?

[eminence]

Watched through most of the game now, pretty enjoyable game to watch. Clips stars let them down, the rest of their cast largely showed up to play. Mitchell carried the Jazz, though that's a bit by design without Conley, Mitchell can't really get the rest of the squad involved like he can. Happy to get the win.

[Doctor MJ]

Getting the vibe lately that Jokic now is better than peak Dirk. At least nobody has outright said it, but given the comparisons he's getting in terms of his offensive abilities (seen him called a Bird/Dirk hybrid, and there's a thread comparing him to peak LeBron offensively), is the consensus that he's surpassed Dirk?

Are we ready to accept that at this point, or do we still need to see more from Jokic?

At this moment I'd rate Jokic over Dirk without much hesitation.

However, all of these current players are still at risk, in theory, of some opponent figuring something out that really changes how that player is able to thrive in the playoffs going forward. I've seen enough at this point that I think the odds we'll see that with Jokic is low, but if things change, things change.

[Colbinii]

Watched through most of the game now, pretty enjoyable game to watch. Clips stars let them down, the rest of their cast largely showed up to play. Mitchell carried the Jazz, though that's a bit by design without Conley, Mitchell can't really get the rest of the squad involved like he can. Happy to get the win.

The game was one of the better post-season games so far.

[Texas Chuck]

What was Kennard doing out there in the 4th? Mitchell was just eating him alive, have a hard time believing Batum or Terrance Mann wouldn't have done a better job.

I thought it was about the vast difference between the Mavs defense and Utah's. I think Lue felt like he needed his offense on the court particularly with Jackson fouling out. I would have taken off Rondo for Mann or Batum though for sure. But with the two stars not just getting whatever they wanted against Utah, the Clippers have to keep more offense on the court around them.

[Texas Chuck]

Getting the vibe lately that Jokic now is better than peak Dirk. At least nobody has outright said it, but given the comparisons he's getting in terms of his offensive abilities (seen him called a Bird/Dirk hybrid, and there's a thread comparing him to peak LeBron offensively), is the consensus that he's surpassed Dirk?

Are we ready to accept that at this point, or do we still need to see more from Jokic?

At this moment I'd rate Jokic over Dirk without much hesitation.

However, all of these current players are still at risk, in theory, of some opponent figuring something out that really changes how that player is able to thrive in the playoffs going forward. I've seen enough at this point that I think the odds we'll see that with Jokic is low, but if things change, things change.

I think Jokic in 20-21 arguably just had a season better than any of Dirk's. Hard for me to be certain because of the offensive times we live in, but he was incredible. Dirk still has at least 5-6 seasons better than any other year from Jokic to date and I'm always a show it to me again guy.

I strongly believe Jokic is going to show it to us again. And again. And again. So I'm not quite ready to say he's better than Dirk, but I'm prepared to have to come back and acknowledge how late I was on him. Just like I was late on Curry.

[Doctor MJ]

Getting the vibe lately that Jokic now is better than peak Dirk. At least nobody has outright said it, but given the comparisons he's getting in terms of his offensive abilities (seen him called a Bird/Dirk hybrid, and there's a thread comparing him to peak LeBron offensively), is the consensus that he's surpassed Dirk?

Are we ready to accept that at this point, or do we still need to see more from Jokic?

At this moment I'd rate Jokic over Dirk without much hesitation.

However, all of these current players are still at risk, in theory, of some opponent figuring something out that really changes how that player is able to thrive in the playoffs going forward. I've seen enough at this point that I think the odds we'll see that with Jokic is low, but if things change, things change.

I think Jokic in 20-21 arguably just had a season better than any of Dirk's. Hard for me to be certain because of the offensive times we live in, but he was incredible. Dirk still has at least 5-6 seasons better than any other year from Jokic to date and I'm always a show it to me again guy.

I strongly believe Jokic is going to show it to us again. And again. And again. So I'm not quite ready to say he's better than Dirk, but I'm prepared to have to come back and acknowledge how late I was on him. Just like I was late on Curry.

Well I mean, if things hold, Jokic will have his 2nd season with a playoff PER better than anything Dirk did despite far higher box score standards, and in the other playoff season Jokic let an upset over the Clippers for the ages. It's hard then for me to look at Jokic as a guy who was clearly behind Dirk before this season. The box score data seems to put playoff Jokic right up there with the best of Dirk even before we talk about the evolution of the game, and then there's the matter that I just consider Jokic to be a lot smarter out there than Dirk (and I consider Dirk very smart, but Jokic is a genius).

Now on the other hand, I think it's clear from a pure impact perspective that Dirk once the fit got really built around him well had the edge there so I can still see the argument, but that's not a "show me again" type of argument.

[Texas Chuck]

Well I mean, if things hold, Jokic will have his 2nd season with a playoff PER better than anything Dirk did despite far higher box score standards, and in the other playoff season Jokic let an upset over the Clippers for the ages. It's hard then for me to look at Jokic as a guy who was clearly behind Dirk before this season. The box score data seems to put playoff Jokic right up there with the best of Dirk even before we talk about the evolution of the game, and then there's the matter that I just consider Jokic to be a lot smarter out there than Dirk (and I consider Dirk very smart, but Jokic is a genius).

Now on the other hand, I think it's clear from a pure impact perspective that Dirk once the fit got really built around him well had the edge there so I can still see the argument, but that's not a "show me again" type of argument.

I never look at PER so... And as you know from my little Giannis rant of yesterday that I don't look at playoff samples over regular season samples. I do understand the importance of being able to succeed in that environment of course, but the first 82 games are important to me as well when evaluating a player.

And I think you and I differ in that you are more concerned with "goodness" and skill and I'm much more concerned with results and "impact" regardless of form. So it makes sense you would focus more on the more important time and on Jokic' genius(and yes his understanding of basketball certainly seems to exceed Dirk's) and I'm looking at how Dirk carried his teams to success over and over and over regardless of who they were and boy he did he have a bunch of them--I believed he cited the figure of 203 or something at his retirement?

Is Jokic's vision and passing more impressive to watch than Dirk's gravity? Oh absolutely. When you get down to it, Dirk was almost boring in that he was going to PNR you do death leading to Nash carving you up or Terry burying wide open 18 footers or Barea getting into the paint to finish or hit the corner 3. Or he was going to go the high post with a live dribble and shoot over you, go around you if you got too close, and a lot of simply identifying the open guy on the double and then an extra pass or two shooting an open 3. Rinse/repeat.

But I'm not convinced Jokic' is that much more impactful. Dirk centric offenses were great and just as importantly allowed you to play limited offensive players around him while still having a terrific offense.

This year is different. Jokic impact is off the charts by any measure we want to pick. It's a significant jump from his previous seasons. I think its very real, but I just need him to do it again before I move him above a guy whose peak isn't much below Jokic' but whose prime was also 90%+ of his peak for a decade.

[MartinToVaught]

I think Clippers can feel good about that game, almost won without good games from Kawhi and PG. Granted, Conley can come back any game now and make Utah even harder to defend.

What was Kennard doing out there in the 4th? Mitchell was just eating him alive, have a hard time believing Batum or Terrance Mann wouldn't have done a better job.

Also I've definitely been skeptical of Mitchell (mostly because of his size) and thought he was a bubble beneficiary last year, but taking control of that game in such a commanding manner was super impressive

I feel like I've watched variations of last night's game every time the Clippers have been in the second round, and they've never won any of these series, so I'm certainly not feeling good as a fan right now. Mike Conley has been one of the all-time Clipper killers since his Memphis days, so his imminent return to the lineup makes it even worse.