Does Dirk with title surpass KG

[colts18]

That explains why the Celtics are still a top defense when KG is on the floor, with no Thibs, and no Perkins. Old KG at that. lol.

"nah ah" arguments are fun.

The team system has been in place a few years now, so that's not surprising. Shaw could have taken over for Phil, and LA would still run the Tri effectively. Defensively, Thibs is the guy who turned Boston around, like everywhere else he has gone. KG had NO history of leading a top defense before he went to Boston.

And yet, when Thibs was the coach and all 4 other starters were playing but no KG...the Celtics' defense fell through the floor. How does that jive?

KG + Thibs + other starters = top defense

No KG + Thibs + other starters = below average defense

KG + no Thibs + no Perk + other starters = top defense

The math on this one seems pretty straight forward. Thibs' system is great. Having solid defensive teammates is a big help. But the key to the defense is KG.

The offense didn't collapse without KG. The Celtics have gone 40-20 (.667) without KG. There is no chance the Mavs would do the same.

[NO-KG-AI]

But they're 194-74 with him (.723). This isn't close to a peak KG, which is all the more impressive.

[colts18]

But they're 194-74 with him (.723). This isn't close to a peak KG, which is all the more impressive.

.723 to .667 isn't a huge dropoff. It's from a 59 win team to a 55 win team. You would think KG would have more of an impact especially considering most of the games he missed came to close to his prime (08-09)

[NO-KG-AI]

No, I wouldn't think old KG would have a hugely different impact. You get diminishing returns when you add more talent to great teams, and KG isn't nearly the player he used to be. Look at the Heat adding LeBron and Bosh, etc.

We're getting off topic anyway, no one here thinks KG at this point is an offensive force, but unless you think he got better defensively, I dunno what to tell you, his defensive presence, even in his old age, is apparent in every way. Nice deflection though.

Does anyone here think Dirk is a better offensive player than Steve Nash?

[ahonui06]

No, I wouldn't think old KG would have a hugely different impact. You get diminishing returns when you add more talent to great teams, and KG isn't nearly the player he used to be. Look at the Heat adding LeBron and Bosh, etc.

We're getting off topic anyway, no one here thinks KG at this point is an offensive force, but unless you think he got better defensively, I dunno what to tell you, his defensive presence, even in his old age, is apparent in every way. Nice deflection though.

Does anyone here think Dirk is a better offensive player than Steve Nash?

I think DIRK is a better offensive player than Steve Nash.

[drza]

NO-KG-AI says: "That explains why the Celtics are still a top defense when KG is on the floor, with no Thibs, and no Perkins. Old KG at that. lol. "nah ah" arguments are fun."

AUF says: "The team system has been in place a few years now, so that's not surprising. Shaw could have taken over for Phil, and LA would still run the Tri effectively. Defensively, Thibs is the guy who turned Boston around, like everywhere else he has gone. KG had NO history of leading a top defense before he went to Boston."

And yet, when Thibs was the coach and all 4 other starters were playing but no KG...the Celtics' defense fell through the floor. How does that jive?

KG + Thibs + other starters = top defense

No KG + Thibs + other starters = below average defense

KG + no Thibs + no Perk + other starters = top defense

The math on this one seems pretty straight forward. Thibs' system is great. Having solid defensive teammates is a big help. But the key to the defense is KG.

The offense didn't collapse without KG. The Celtics have gone 40-20 (.667) without KG. There is no chance the Mavs would do the same.

Yeah, well...KG once touched the top of the backboard, something Dirk could never do.

(You see? I, too, can throw out non-sequitors that have no bearing at all on the topic being discussed. When you're ready to respond about Thibideau and the defense, you know...what we were actually talking about, I'll look forward to reading it).

[studcrackers]

People are using last night as a positive? lmao. I like how a guy can be garbage for the length of a game, then his team can rally back from down 15 and make it a 4 point game in like 5 minutes, and then you can hit a couple of shots and erase 40 minutes of poor play.

Dude was a non factor all night, the supporting cast drove them back into the game, and then he finished the deal. That's not "Carrying a team" that's being carried. Lets stop with all the nonsense about how bad the supporting cast is, because they erased a 15 point lead in no time flat, with Dirk doing nothing but clanking shots, and turning the ball over.

your disliking of dirk is hilarious

[NO-KG-AI]

Solid argument.

[richboy]

People are using last night as a positive? lmao. I like how a guy can be garbage for the length of a game, then his team can rally back from down 15 and make it a 4 point game in like 5 minutes, and then you can hit a couple of shots and erase 40 minutes of poor play.

Dude was a non factor all night, the supporting cast drove them back into the game, and then he finished the deal. That's not "Carrying a team" that's being carried. Lets stop with all the nonsense about how bad the supporting cast is, because they erased a 15 point lead in no time flat, with Dirk doing nothing but clanking shots, and turning the ball over.

You should change name to I hate Dirk. Even Dirks bad game like it was most of last night. He still was getting his teammates wide open shots. Not only did he score the final 9 points. He touched the ball and forced a double team on almost every Miami possession that last 6 minutes. Each one led to a wide open shot. Even Spo said during the press conference that the reason they didn't double team Dirk on the last play was because they had no success and it opened up the game for Terry and Kidd.

Sorry either your just a blind hater or you don't watch the game to say Dirk had nothing to do with that 15 point lead being vanished.

[NO-KG-AI]

I apologize, Dirk had a great game, and carried them.

[richboy]

People are using last night as a positive? lmao. I like how a guy can be garbage for the length of a game, then his team can rally back from down 15 and make it a 4 point game in like 5 minutes, and then you can hit a couple of shots and erase 40 minutes of poor play.

There is a reason why KG hasn't had much Postseason success and its probably because of his .519 TS%. It's not like KG was dominating in the finals either. He averaged 18.2 PPG on 17.5 shots with a .429 FG% and .470 TS% then in 2010 he averaged 15.2 PPG, 5.6 Reb on .555 TS%. Nothing spectacular at all. Dirk lifts his game in the playoffs, KG doesn't.

The celtics won a title because they were an all time great defense, because of KG. The fact that he was their best scorer and rebounder in the playoffs is even better.

2010 KG? Lmao, dude is broken, give me a break. Using KG's numbers when he was on one leg and 16 years of playing is hilarious, considering Dirk at his peak turned in the two biggest chokes ever. Ever. Ever. ever.

Dirk getting a ring is going to put him over KG, Malone, Barkley, Doctor J, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, etc.

None of those guys CARRIED a team like Dirk, he has to go above them all.

If Dirk keeps playing at a high level for more years he have a very good case to go in front of Barkely, and Malone. If he wins this year he should go in front of KG.

The Celtics won because in the biggest game of his career Paul Pierce had 41 points. Then Paul Pierce and Ray Allen had very good NBA finals while KG was being carried.

Being good defensively is fine but do you see the Chicago Bulls in the finals. To win Championships you need offensive players who can get there shot or get a teammate a shot the last 5 minutes of a game.

[richboy]

That explains why the Celtics are still a top defense when KG is on the floor, with no Thibs, and no Perkins. Old KG at that. lol.

"nah ah" arguments are fun.

The team system has been in place a few years now, so that's not surprising. Shaw could have taken over for Phil, and LA would still run the Tri effectively. Defensively, Thibs is the guy who turned Boston around, like everywhere else he has gone. KG had NO history of leading a top defense before he went to Boston.

And yet, when Thibs was the coach and all 4 other starters were playing but no KG...the Celtics' defense fell through the floor. How does that jive?

KG + Thibs + other starters = top defense

No KG + Thibs + other starters = below average defense

KG + no Thibs + no Perk + other starters = top defense

The math on this one seems pretty straight forward. Thibs' system is great. Having solid defensive teammates is a big help. But the key to the defense is KG.

Bulls defense was better than the Celtics and they had no KG.

Said it before. Celtics defense suffers without KG because they don't rebound. His replacement Big Baby and Rasheed Wallace can't rebound worth of nothing. Thibs has no KG but he has guys that can rebound. If the Celtics had athletic bigs that can rebound off the bench they wouldn't be as dependant on KG.

[studcrackers]

Solid argument.

im not arguing, just pointing out that you can be an annoying **** sometimes

[richboy]

I apologize, Dirk had a great game, and carried them.

No just admit you hate him. Everytime Dirk does something your one of the first to say BUT. I'm not saying Dirk had one of the great games of all-time. Saying he had no impact is laughable. Dirk was setting up Marion for wide open looks. Haywood and Tyson Chandler have had the ball right under the rim a dozen times in this series. To bad they can never finish.

[NO-KG-AI]

I don't hate Dirk, I just hate terrible arguments. A player whose sole value is his offense, is being propped up despite shooting 42% and having more turnovers than assists.

[NO-KG-AI]

Solid argument.

im not arguing, just pointing out that you can be an annoying **** sometimes

You're not arguing, because you can't. Throw out insults to combat facts, or shift the goal posts like the other guys, that seems to be dragging this thread out nicely.

I wouldn't have used the game against him, because it's one game anyway, but the fact that people came in to rally behind Dirk after a poor game was just laughable.

[studcrackers]

no, i just laugh at how you like to talk down to people a lot

and not just in this thread either

[richboy]

I don't hate Dirk, I just hate terrible arguments. A player whose sole value is his offense, is being propped up despite shooting 42% and having more turnovers than assists.

That would be the terrible argument. He had over double digit rebounds.

I've said this before. Nobody should look at assist as the measure if your giving teammates open looks. Spo even said we didn't double team Dirk because every time we double teamed him they were getting a wide open look.

Add in its not like Bosh is tearing things up. Yet somehow he come to the conclusion Dirk doesn't do anything if he not making shots.

[NO-KG-AI]

no, i just laugh at how you like to talk down to people a lot

and not just in this thread either

Cry me a river

I don't hate Dirk, I just hate terrible arguments. A player whose sole value is his offense, is being propped up despite shooting 42% and having more turnovers than assists.

That would be the terrible argument. He had over double digit rebounds.

I've said this before. Nobody should look at assist as the measure if your giving teammates open looks. Spo even said we didn't double team Dirk because every time we double teamed him they were getting a wide open look.

Add in its not like Bosh is tearing things up. Yet somehow he come to the conclusion Dirk doesn't do anything if he not making shots.

Chandler and Haywood are doing most of the guarding of Bosh. Dirk has done tremendous on Joel Anthony though.

[studcrackers]

no, i just laugh at how you like to talk down to people a lot

and not just in this thread either

Cry me a river

I don't hate Dirk, I just hate terrible arguments. A player whose sole value is his offense, is being propped up despite shooting 42% and having more turnovers than assists.

That would be the terrible argument. He had over double digit rebounds.

I've said this before. Nobody should look at assist as the measure if your giving teammates open looks. Spo even said we didn't double team Dirk because every time we double teamed him they were getting a wide open look.

Add in its not like Bosh is tearing things up. Yet somehow he come to the conclusion Dirk doesn't do anything if he not making shots.

Chandler and Haywood are doing most of the guarding of Bosh. Dirk has done tremendous on Joel Anthony though.

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