2019-20 NBA Season Discussion

[E-Balla]

Maybe I'm crazy but I'm not very impressed by the Lakers beating up on the 2 weakest teams in the Western Conference playoffs. Like it's Portland and Houston, if anything I'm more disappointed they dropped both game 1s than I am impressed that they're blowing these super weak and flawed rosters off the floor.

Like Davis and LeBron are amazing, but they're playing a team where the biggest regular rotation player is PJ Tucker and in round 1 LeBron was being checked by old man Melo. I still think the Raptors are the team to beat in the playoffs. Maybe the Celtics too (Tatum is a legit superstar and they're a top 5 team on both ends of the floor). That Raptors defense is amazing and they don't have anyone that can consistently take over a game but they're still playing the Celtics well with Pascal sucking because of how many options they have. The Clippers seem more like a one man team at this point with Kawhi carrying them, and I know LA's offense has been good in the playoffs but they've played the 28th ranked defense and a team that was 16th on defense that's now starting a 6-7 guy at C so their shaky regular season offense is still a better representation of their play than this.

[Jordan Syndrome]

Maybe I'm crazy but I'm not very impressed by the Lakers beating up on the 2 weakest teams in the Western Conference playoffs. Like it's Portland and Houston, if anything I'm more disappointed they dropped both game 1s than I am impressed that they're blowing these super weak and flawed rosters off the floor.

"You don't make the schedule"

Not buying the Lakere at this point has a lot of flaws to it.

I get not being overly impressed by the way they surgically eviscerated Portland and then their ruthless defensive efforts against Houston. However, the Lakers didn't choose their opponents. They didn't play against Boston, Toronto, Miami or the Clippers in round 2. They are up 3-1 just as you would expect the #1 seed in the West to be in the Semi-Finals. The Lakers are doing what they should be doing, this can't be a slight on them in any way, shape or form.

Like Davis and LeBron are amazing, but they're playing a team where the biggest regular rotation player is PJ Tucker and in round 1 LeBron was being checked by old man Melo. I still think the Raptors are the team to beat in the playoffs. Maybe the Celtics too (Tatum is a legit superstar and they're a top 5 team on both ends of the floor). That Raptors defense is amazing and they don't have anyone that can consistently take over a game but they're still playing the Celtics well with Pascal sucking because of how many options they have. The Clippers seem more like a one man team at this point with Kawhi carrying them, and I know LA's offense has been good in the playoffs but they've played the 28th ranked defense and a team that was 16th on defense that's now starting a 6-7 guy at C so their shaky regular season offense is still a better representation of their play than this.

Few points but first...

I agree with the Raptors and Celtics. I actually think all 3 of the Raptors, Celtics and Heat are formidable opponents for the NBA Title.
The Raptors are proven, play great defense and will always have the best or 1B coach in a series.
The Celtics are still oozing with talent and they remind me a lot of the 2015 Warriors in that they have this young core that is on the verge of greatness.
The Heat have strong parts that create a whole which has little weakness; a team which fits the bill of "Sum greater than parts" as well as any team ever.

We need to give credit to LA. The Houston Rockets played phenomenal defense in round 1 against the Thunder. First, claiming the Rockets were the 16th best defense in the regular season as evidence for the post-season sells the team short. They made moves mid-season to improve the team on both ends of the court.

Think about this--The Rockets, in the regular season, were only -1.7 PP100 better with Clint Capela on the court but are -4.4 PP100 with Robert Covington on the court.

A team like the Raptors, who give a lot of credit to, didn't play a "real" center for the last 19 minutes of a playoff elimination game. Centers aren't a necessity to compete at the highest levels in the NBA. Many teams close games with "pseudo-centers", who to your benefit in this discussion are generally bigger than P.J. Tucker.

The Lakers have posted a 115.5 rating against the Rockets. That is a damn good offense, especially when your defense is play as well as the Lakers defense is.

...I just don't get the "I'm not that impressed" by the Lakers statement. Yeah, this isn't some 2001 Lakers run where the Lakers are dismantling the competition but the Lakers are doing exactly what they should be doing and exactly what they have been expected to be doing as the #1 seed. More importantly, they have been playing better and better in every game so far. They have the confidence to play with their food like they did last night which is a sign of a true title team. The 1990s Bulls would do that a lot, especially in their later runs.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Maybe I'm crazy but I'm not very impressed by the Lakers beating up on the 2 weakest teams in the Western Conference playoffs. Like it's Portland and Houston, if anything I'm more disappointed they dropped both game 1s than I am impressed that they're blowing these super weak and flawed rosters off the floor.

Like Davis and LeBron are amazing, but they're playing a team where the biggest regular rotation player is PJ Tucker and in round 1 LeBron was being checked by old man Melo. I still think the Raptors are the team to beat in the playoffs. Maybe the Celtics too (Tatum is a legit superstar and they're a top 5 team on both ends of the floor). That Raptors defense is amazing and they don't have anyone that can consistently take over a game but they're still playing the Celtics well with Pascal sucking because of how many options they have. The Clippers seem more like a one man team at this point with Kawhi carrying them, and I know LA's offense has been good in the playoffs but they've played the 28th ranked defense and a team that was 16th on defense that's now starting a 6-7 guy at C so their shaky regular season offense is still a better representation of their play than this.

To be fair the rockets play in a way that makes it difficult for guys like lebron to drive in, since they pack the paint more than anyone else, and theyre somehow the best post defense team in the league which is pretty funny

Whiteside also bothered bron alot in the first few games tbf, and melos d was pretty good overall

[freethedevil]

Maybe I'm crazy but I'm not very impressed by the Lakers beating up on the 2 weakest teams in the Western Conference playoffs. Like it's Portland and Houston, if anything I'm more disappointed they dropped both game 1s than I am impressed that they're blowing these super weak and flawed rosters off the floor.

Like Davis and LeBron are amazing, but they're playing a team where the biggest regular rotation player is PJ Tucker and in round 1 LeBron was being checked by old man Melo. I still think the Raptors are the team to beat in the playoffs. Maybe the Celtics too (Tatum is a legit superstar and they're a top 5 team on both ends of the floor). That Raptors defense is amazing and they don't have anyone that can consistently take over a game but they're still playing the Celtics well with Pascal sucking because of how many options they have. The Clippers seem more like a one man team at this point with Kawhi carrying them, and I know LA's offense has been good in the playoffs but they've played the 28th ranked defense and a team that was 16th on defense that's now starting a 6-7 guy at C so their shaky regular season offense is still a better representation of their play than this.

Rockets were the #1 postseason defense, and it's not even clear to me they're significatly worse than the clippers. I agree the matchups are pretty good, since all the rim protection's in the east, but I don't at all afree with the rockets and portland being "weak". The portland the lakers played+zach collins were a top 4 seed last year and good enough for the second round. The rockets essentially played the warriors with kd to a draw last year, beat a 5th seed despite effectively missing their second best player for the whole series and have been shooting 40% from three against a lakes team that is pretty **** at perimiter defense outside of lebron and davis.


Don't know how the rockets are a weak western team. Only people i'd really see arguments for being better are the clips and the mavs and i can easily see arguments the otherway.

[E-Balla]

"You don't make the schedule"

Not buying the Lakere at this point has a lot of flaws to it.

I get not being overly impressed by the way they surgically eviscerated Portland and then their ruthless defensive efforts against Houston. However, the Lakers didn't choose their opponents.

You're right, which is why I see them as the team that played 71 other games before the playoffs. In the regular season they were a great defensive team and mediocre offensive team. Based off their regular season results I wouldn't have them as the favorite and they haven't played anyone good enough to shift my opinion there.

We need to give credit to LA. The Houston Rockets played phenomenal defense in round 1 against the Thunder.

The Thunder's offense that was below average, is led by a trio of PGs, and doesn't have any big scoring options? What better matchup could Houston ask for defensively?

First, claiming the Rockets were the 16th best defense in the regular season as evidence for the post-season sells the team short. They made moves mid-season to improve the team on both ends of the court.

Think about this--The Rockets, in the regular season, were only -1.7 PP100 better with Clint Capela on the court but are -4.4 PP100 with Robert Covington on the court.

But their defense was still not very good even with Covington on the floor and it was tremendously flawed. LA has the 2 biggest guys on the floor at any given time and they're both high volume scorers with post games. That's BBQ chicken.

A team like the Raptors, who give a lot of credit to, didn't play a "real" center for the last 19 minutes of a playoff elimination game. Centers aren't a necessity to compete at the highest levels in the NBA. Many teams close games with "pseudo-centers", who to your benefit in this discussion are generally bigger than P.J. Tucker.

The Lakers have posted a 115.5 rating against the Rockets. That is a damn good offense, especially when your defense is play as well as the Lakers defense is.

...I just don't get the "I'm not that impressed" by the Lakers statement. Yeah, this isn't some 2001 Lakers run where the Lakers are dismantling the competition but the Lakers are doing exactly what they should be doing and exactly what they have been expected to be doing as the #1 seed. More importantly, they have been playing better and better in every game so far. They have the confidence to play with their food like they did last night which is a sign of a true title team. The 1990s Bulls would do that a lot, especially in their later runs.

I mean basically the Lakers offense was mediocre in the regular season, and they haven't played anyone they shouldn't destroy in the postseason, so I'm just not impressed by them on that end. I don't think what we've seen against Portland and Houston has changed my opinion on their flawed offense. Against Portland they had a +0.6 offense. Against Houston they've had a +5.4 offense but we've already discussed how matchup wise Houston stood no chance. I just don't see a reason to be any higher on them now than I was on them headed into the postseason.

[E-Balla]

Maybe I'm crazy but I'm not very impressed by the Lakers beating up on the 2 weakest teams in the Western Conference playoffs. Like it's Portland and Houston, if anything I'm more disappointed they dropped both game 1s than I am impressed that they're blowing these super weak and flawed rosters off the floor.

Like Davis and LeBron are amazing, but they're playing a team where the biggest regular rotation player is PJ Tucker and in round 1 LeBron was being checked by old man Melo. I still think the Raptors are the team to beat in the playoffs. Maybe the Celtics too (Tatum is a legit superstar and they're a top 5 team on both ends of the floor). That Raptors defense is amazing and they don't have anyone that can consistently take over a game but they're still playing the Celtics well with Pascal sucking because of how many options they have. The Clippers seem more like a one man team at this point with Kawhi carrying them, and I know LA's offense has been good in the playoffs but they've played the 28th ranked defense and a team that was 16th on defense that's now starting a 6-7 guy at C so their shaky regular season offense is still a better representation of their play than this.

To be fair the rockets play in a way that makes it difficult for guys like lebron to drive in, since they pack the paint more than anyone else, and theyre somehow the best post defense team in the league which is pretty funny

Whiteside also bothered bron alot in the first few games tbf, and melos d was pretty good overall

Don't need to drive when you can post up and their post defense ranks high but I think it's much for the same reason Steve Nash used to look great in isolation defense on synergy back in the day. The Rockets invite everyone to post them up good or bad because of their lack of size. I'm willing to bet teams post them up more than anyone else too (haven't seen the numbers so I might be wrong here). That doesn't mean that a great player can't pick on them though, just that mediocre players picking on them are making a poor decision.

[E-Balla]

Rockets were the #1 postseason defense,

They played one series against the worst offense in the Western Conference playoffs which also happened to be the team their defense matched up with the best (by that I mean a team where Billy Donovan was coach and Steven Adams was the best big scoring option).

and it's not even clear to me they're significatly worse than the clippers. I agree the matchups are pretty good, since all the rim protection's in the east, but I don't at all afree with the rockets and portland being "weak". The portland the lakers played+zach collins were a top 4 seed last year and good enough for the second round. The rockets essentially played the warriors with kd to a draw last year, beat a 5th seed despite effectively missing their second best player for the whole series and have been shooting 40% from three against a lakes team that is pretty **** at perimiter defense outside of lebron and davis.


Don't know how the rockets are a weak western team. Only people i'd really see arguments for being better are the clips and the mavs and i can easily see arguments the otherway.

I don't see the arguments any other way but Westbrook's injury shouldn't be excused and we're talking about their defense and not their offense so I don't think his injury really is relevant. That Lakers defense is legit, we knew that going into the playoffs. Their offense is what worries me and what hasn't been challenged enough in the postseason to change my opinion.

[kayess]

It's funny - this is the exact sort of stuff lots of us expected if ever LeBron would do well against the West. Smarter fans were saying "well if he was on the West he'd play poorer defenses and he'd shred them" in response to the "East is weak" bull. Now that he's doing that, it's not very impressive.

Houston were seen as a terrible matchup for the Lakers because of their 3pt shooting (Lakers were last in that category I think? And I mean, Rockets have been shooting ~40% the last 3 games on huge volume). Now that the Lakers' D has stepped up and made the Rockets look like chumps, it's not very impressive.

This revisionism will always, always follow LeBron, thanks to his many, many haters.

FWIW - I actually agree in spirit that the Lakers haven't been TRULY tested. But to say it's not impressive just reeks of finding holes where there are none. Can only play what's in front of you, and he's proven time and again that he exceeds expectations even then. That's not "not very impressive" if you've been doing it for a decade plus.

[E-Balla]

It's funny - this is the exact sort of stuff lots of us expected if ever LeBron would do well against the West. Smarter fans were saying "well if he was on the West he'd play poorer defenses and he'd shred them" in response to the "East is weak" bull. Now that he's doing that, it's not very impressive.

Houston were seen as a terrible matchup for the Lakers because of their 3pt shooting (Lakers were last in that category I think? And I mean, Rockets have been shooting ~40% the last 3 games on huge volume). Now that the Lakers' D has stepped up and made the Rockets look like chumps, it's not very impressive.

This revisionism will always, always follow LeBron, thanks to his many, many haters.

FWIW - I actually agree in spirit that the Lakers haven't been TRULY tested. But to say it's not impressive just reeks of finding holes where there are none. Can only play what's in front of you, and he's proven time and again that he exceeds expectations even then. That's not "not very impressive" if you've been doing it for a decade plus.

We're discussing the Lakers not LeBron James. Take the stan goggles off. No one has mentioned LeBron once in this whole conversation we're talking about who we think is going to win it all. If anyone said LeBron hasn't been very impressive quote that, if not log off.

[MisterHibachi]

I'm pretty sure the Lakers were top 5 in offense when the season paused in March, and dropped to 11 after the bubble because their offensive play in the seeding games was extraordinarily bad. I don't think they were a mediocre offensive team in the regular season.

Edit: yup, I was right. According to nba.com, the Lakers had a 112.6 O from Oct 22 to March 11, those dates being the season opener and the league shut down. That ranked 4th, barely behind the Clippers at 112.9. In the bubble, their offense ranked 20/22 at 104.5. Them finishing at 11 on the season was all due to their play during the seeding games, where they clearly didn't give a **** after the Clippers game.

[Bidofo]

I'm pretty sure the Lakers were top 5 in offense when the season paused in March, and dropped to 11 after the bubble because their offensive play in the seeding games was extraordinarily bad. I don't think they were a mediocre offensive team in the regular season.

Yep, using overall ORTG for the Lakers makes no sense since they mailed it in during the bubble games, plus the long layoff was arguably bad for an old guy like LeBron who was just about to rev up. They had a 113.7 ORTG before the season was suspended, which is +3.1 and would be tied for the third best offense, though not sure where it ranked pre-bubble. Probably not too different regardless.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Maybe I'm crazy but I'm not very impressed by the Lakers beating up on the 2 weakest teams in the Western Conference playoffs. Like it's Portland and Houston, if anything I'm more disappointed they dropped both game 1s than I am impressed that they're blowing these super weak and flawed rosters off the floor.

Like Davis and LeBron are amazing, but they're playing a team where the biggest regular rotation player is PJ Tucker and in round 1 LeBron was being checked by old man Melo. I still think the Raptors are the team to beat in the playoffs. Maybe the Celtics too (Tatum is a legit superstar and they're a top 5 team on both ends of the floor). That Raptors defense is amazing and they don't have anyone that can consistently take over a game but they're still playing the Celtics well with Pascal sucking because of how many options they have. The Clippers seem more like a one man team at this point with Kawhi carrying them, and I know LA's offense has been good in the playoffs but they've played the 28th ranked defense and a team that was 16th on defense that's now starting a 6-7 guy at C so their shaky regular season offense is still a better representation of their play than this.

To be fair the rockets play in a way that makes it difficult for guys like lebron to drive in, since they pack the paint more than anyone else, and theyre somehow the best post defense team in the league which is pretty funny

Whiteside also bothered bron alot in the first few games tbf, and melos d was pretty good overall

Don't need to drive when you can post up and their post defense ranks high but I think it's much for the same reason Steve Nash used to look great in isolation defense on synergy back in the day. The Rockets invite everyone to post them up good or bad because of their lack of size. I'm willing to bet teams post them up more than anyone else too (haven't seen the numbers so I might be wrong here). That doesn't mean that a great player can't pick on them though, just that mediocre players picking on them are making a poor decision.

They get posted up alot but theyre really good at doubling at the right time to force the miss

Tucker is overrated at hell on D but hes like decent as a post defender, although people be acting like hes a world beater. Theyre d is really good at swarming people, and its hard to see those doubles with ur back to the basket

If you face up in the post tho they dieded lol

[No-more-rings]

Are pretty much most of us in agreement that the East teams don’t stand much chance against either Lakers or Clippers?

[clearlynotjesse]

Kawhi's help defense has been fantastic this series. Murray's blown by him a few times but he's everywhere on defense.

[MisterHibachi]

Are pretty much most of us in agreement that the East teams don’t stand much chance against either Lakers or Clippers?

They're the two top teams in the league, but I don't think they're unbeatable. Eastern teams are really good. I would surprised if any of the three lost in 5 or less.

[MartinToVaught]

Just LOL at the people who were defending Doc earlier in this thread. He's about to blow his third 3-1 lead. Worst coach in sports.

[GSP]

Are pretty much most of us in agreement that the East teams don’t stand much chance against either Lakers or Clippers?

Yup. Lakers/Clips is obviously the real finals

[GSP]

Just LOL at the people who were defending Doc earlier in this thread. He's about to blow his third 3-1 lead. Worst coach in sports.

Hes a good coach but hes nowhere near top 5. Top 10 at best

[MartinToVaught]

Just LOL at the people who were defending Doc earlier in this thread. He's about to blow his third 3-1 lead. Worst coach in sports.

Hes a good coach but hes nowhere near top 5. Top 10 at best

He's not a good coach at all. He's Mark Jackson, Jason Kidd, VDN level at best.

[MartinToVaught]

Are pretty much most of us in agreement that the East teams don’t stand much chance against either Lakers or Clippers?

Yup. Lakers/Clips is obviously the real finals

Lakers/Clips isn't happening thanks to Doc.