2019-20 NBA Season Discussion

[Doctor MJ]

33/1 betting odds for Denver to make it to the Finals? I might honestly put $100 down on them for the hell of it.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

LOL dont waste your money man

They have no shot VS La if they even do somehow make it to the Wcf

its interesting theyre playing this well without Will Barton whos arguably their 3rd best player

I have to say that yeah, the match up against AD has not gone well for Jokic. Lakers will certainly be heavy favorites against the Nuggets and I wouldn't be against them...just as I wouldn't have bet against the Clippers.

[GSP]

Read on Twitter

Looks like Marvin was prolly right

In any case Doc Rivers is absolutely not a top 5 coach. Nowhere sniffing that stratosphere

[toodles23]

Tough to see how the Nuggets even get a game in this series unless the Clippers completely take their foot off the gas or the Nuggets get a really fluky hot shooting game. They have no real rim protection and Kawhi is getting absolutely everything he wants.

Wow what a moron!

This Clippers team is so incredibly uninspiring. Morris was completely right when he described it as a "good on paper" team - aside from Lou and Harrell the whole team looks like they only just started playing together. I think it speaks to the limitations of Kawhi and PG's games, neither of them are dynamic playmakers at all.

[freethedevil]

This is really the first time Kawhi has been tested as a leader and he's not doing too well. He always had other players or coaches to handle that. The Clippers' season long approach has been iffy.

This is also the first time he's played with a typical contending level cast.

[freethedevil]

33/1 betting odds for Denver to make it to the Finals? I might honestly put $100 down on them for the hell of it.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

LOL dont waste your money man

They have no shot VS La if they even do somehow make it to the Wcf

its interesting theyre playing this well without Will Barton whos arguably their 3rd best player

I have to say that yeah, the match up against AD has not gone well for Jokic. Lakers will certainly be heavy favorites against the Nuggets and I wouldn't be against them...just as I wouldn't have bet against the Clippers.

Both you and I didn't like lebron's "off-court" impact in 18-19, and I've been indifferent towards his leadership after he's left the cavs(the first time), but frankly, nabbing the lakers AD easily makes up for that on a purely rational calculus. It didn't end up that way, but the lakers probably could have gotten AD as a free agent, and essentially nabbing your team a player who arguably could be the best in the league is probably worth more wins than however many losses he's picked up via leGMing.

[Dupp]

So jokics 3pt shooting continues to be amazing and so far beyond his regular season self. Both for season and career when comparing reg season and post season.

[MartinToVaught]

Theyre easily gonna win at this point. Lakers have looked incredible.

Not sure how much of it is "stars aligning" tho

It was obvious pre playoffs at least to me that a team with playoff Bron/Ad and a great defense wasnt gonna lose 4/7

Honestly, it has to do with me expecting more from the Clippers than thinking the Lakers wouldn't be a serious threat. Like, this Clippers team is essentially the same team that took 2 games off the Warriors last year, except they lost SGA and Gallo (who was pretty bad in that series) and replaced them with Kawhi and PG... These are astronomical upgrades... And then they've also added Marcus Morris and Reggie Jackson. I thought putting Lou Williams next to Kawhi/PG would make it easier for him to be a more effective scorer and not struggle so much with his efficiency because he had to create a lot more off the dribble.
I thought having Kawhi/PG would make them better defensively, making it easier on guys like Harrell to not get exposed there...

The problem is what we didn't upgrade: the coach who has underachieved year after year for the past seven years.

I've been saying it all season on the Clippers board and I'm saying it again here: same Lob City coach, same Lob City results. We already saw what Doc could do with a contending team in the west. It wasn't good enough. Giving him another chance to do it all over again was the definition of insanity.

[Doctor MJ]

LOL dont waste your money man

They have no shot VS La if they even do somehow make it to the Wcf

its interesting theyre playing this well without Will Barton whos arguably their 3rd best player

I have to say that yeah, the match up against AD has not gone well for Jokic. Lakers will certainly be heavy favorites against the Nuggets and I wouldn't be against them...just as I wouldn't have bet against the Clippers.

Both you and I didn't like lebron's "off-court" impact in 18-19, and I've been indifferent towards his leadership after he's left the cavs(the first time), but frankly, nabbing the lakers AD easily makes up for that on a purely rational calculus. It didn't end up that way, but the lakers probably could have gotten AD as a free agent, and essentially nabbing your team a player who arguably could be the best in the league is probably worth more wins than however many losses he's picked up via leGMing.

AD really seems like the perfect partner for LeBron. Way better than any star-level player he's ever played with.

I find myself wondering how much of this LeBron understood ahead of time. The way the Lakers built around LeBron pre-AD was incredibly tone deaf, and LeBron seems like he thought those other moves was a good idea. Given that, I find myself thinking that it's quite likely that LeBron really did make a really dumb move in going to the Lakers and just happened to get bailed out because things didn't pan out for AD in NO. Had AD not been available, I expect the Lakers get some other co-star, but in the absence of this kind of talent + fit that we see with LeBron/AD, I don't think think the Lakers are necessarily even contenders.

Of course, while I am someone who holds "off-court" GMing impact against players like LeBron, it's real impact I'm talking about. Whether LeBron got lucky or not, if LeBron wins a title playing like LeBron this year it will absolutely be the closing accomplishment LeBron needed to give him a very strong GOAT argument in my book.

Meanwhile, AD feels even luckier. I was a huge AD guy coming into the draft, but I really though he should have been able to achieve more in NO, and the way he handled his exit from there was dumb and ugly. If the Lakers roll with him as an unstoppable force the rest of the way, then all of that is truly water under the bridge and we're beginning to ask what it will take for AD to make into into Top 25 all-time.

[Doctor MJ]

So jokics 3pt shooting continues to be amazing and so far beyond his regular season self. Both for season and career when comparing reg season and post season.

Good point, and if he's a clearly outstanding 3-point shooter in addition to his best-in-league passing and savvy interior scoring game, it's pretty dang understandable why it's impossible to stop the Denver offense. (To say nothing of Murray turning the corner.)

[Dupp]

I have to say that yeah, the match up against AD has not gone well for Jokic. Lakers will certainly be heavy favorites against the Nuggets and I wouldn't be against them...just as I wouldn't have bet against the Clippers.

Both you and I didn't like lebron's "off-court" impact in 18-19, and I've been indifferent towards his leadership after he's left the cavs(the first time), but frankly, nabbing the lakers AD easily makes up for that on a purely rational calculus. It didn't end up that way, but the lakers probably could have gotten AD as a free agent, and essentially nabbing your team a player who arguably could be the best in the league is probably worth more wins than however many losses he's picked up via leGMing.

AD really seems like the perfect partner for LeBron. Way better than any star-level player he's ever played with.

I find myself wondering how much of this LeBron understood ahead of time. The way the Lakers built around LeBron pre-AD was incredibly tone deaf, and LeBron seems like he thought those other moves was a good idea. Given that, I find myself thinking that it's quite likely that LeBron really did make a really dumb move in going to the Lakers and just happened to get bailed out because things didn't pan out for AD in NO. Had AD not been available, I expect the Lakers get some other co-star, but in the absence of this kind of talent + fit that we see with LeBron/AD, I don't think think the Lakers are necessarily even contenders.

Of course, while I am someone who holds "off-court" GMing impact against players like LeBron, it's real impact I'm talking about. Whether LeBron got lucky or not, if LeBron wins a title playing like LeBron this year it will absolutely be the closing accomplishment LeBron needed to give him a very strong GOAT argument in my book.

Meanwhile, AD feels even luckier. I was a huge AD guy coming into the draft, but I really though he should have been able to achieve more in NO, and the way he handled his exit from there was dumb and ugly. If the Lakers roll with him as an unstoppable force the rest of the way, then all of that is truly water under the bridge and we're beginning to ask what it will take for AD to make into into Top 25 all-time.

Lebrons lebron. He went to LA at a bad time for the team but he obviously had plans ahead of time and had some level of confidence in them fielding a contender. I’m sure he had discussions with AD. He wasn’t going there if he didn’t think there was a chance to build on his legacy.

I actually think it goes further and am pretty sure he had decided to go there after the 2017 season. This was probably planned for a long time. I was certain the whole season he was leaving after 2018. I could tell he had one foot out the door and assumed it was for LA. Just the way his relationship with Gilbert soured and not signing off on trades for the cavs because Gilbert wanted a commitment. He obviously wanted out and good on him for it.


I think a lot of people, like your self went too crazy over the mess last season when they tried to trade for AD. Getting AD was absolutely the best possible thing and the pelicans were pretty sour at the time and blew it up. But really who cares, lebron was looking forward and looking out for his own legacy like he should. That team wasnt winning anything and the bad environment it created is not a big deal in the long run. The juice was worth the squeeze.

As we can see with this team lebron is clearly a good leader and gels with his teammates well. Both on and off the court. Same goes for first stint cavs and 15-17 cavs. 18 was rough. He was on his way out and he told Gilbert not to trade Kyrie for IT. There was a lot of bad blood between lebron and Dan that last year. But when he has a team around him he’s a great leader and has been more often than not his career.

[Lost92Bricks]

The problem is what we didn't upgrade: the coach who has underachieved year after year for the past seven years.

I've been saying it all season on the Clippers board and I'm saying it again here: same Lob City coach, same Lob City results. We already saw what Doc could do with a contending team in the west. It wasn't good enough. Giving him another chance to do it all over again was the definition of insanity.

Why do you still criticize Doc for the Lob City years? I thought they weren't good enough roster wise?

[Dupp]

The problem is what we didn't upgrade: the coach who has underachieved year after year for the past seven years.

I've been saying it all season on the Clippers board and I'm saying it again here: same Lob City coach, same Lob City results. We already saw what Doc could do with a contending team in the west. It wasn't good enough. Giving him another chance to do it all over again was the definition of insanity.

Why do you still criticize Doc for the Lob City years? I thought they weren't good enough roster wise?

Doc had gm’ing power and tanked their roster pretty bad. So I would blame him for everything too.

[MartinToVaught]

The problem is what we didn't upgrade: the coach who has underachieved year after year for the past seven years.

I've been saying it all season on the Clippers board and I'm saying it again here: same Lob City coach, same Lob City results. We already saw what Doc could do with a contending team in the west. It wasn't good enough. Giving him another chance to do it all over again was the definition of insanity.

Why do you still criticize Doc for the Lob City years? I thought they weren't good enough roster wise?

I've always criticized both the roster and the coaching. And don't forget, Doc also gets a lot of the blame for the roster in that era because of his disastrous stint as GM.

Lob City was cocky, undisciplined, constantly blew leads, slow to adjust, and struggled to close out series. We're seeing the exact same flaws now with a more talented roster, but the same coach. This tells me that it's a Doc issue, not a player issue.

[Homer38]

The problem is what we didn't upgrade: the coach who has underachieved year after year for the past seven years.

I've been saying it all season on the Clippers board and I'm saying it again here: same Lob City coach, same Lob City results. We already saw what Doc could do with a contending team in the west. It wasn't good enough. Giving him another chance to do it all over again was the definition of insanity.

Why do you still criticize Doc for the Lob City years? I thought they weren't good enough roster wise?

I've always criticized both the roster and the coaching. And don't forget, Doc also gets a lot of the blame for the roster in that era because of his disastrous stint as GM.

Lob City was cocky, undisciplined, constantly blew leads, slow to adjust, and struggled to close out series. We're seeing the exact same flaws now with a more talented roster, but the same coach. This tells me that it's a Doc issue, not a player issue.

Who do you want as your next HC if Doc is fired?

[yoyoboy]

So jokics 3pt shooting continues to be amazing and so far beyond his regular season self. Both for season and career when comparing reg season and post season.

Good point, and if he's a clearly outstanding 3-point shooter in addition to his best-in-league passing and savvy interior scoring game, it's pretty dang understandable why it's impossible to stop the Denver offense. (To say nothing of Murray turning the corner.)

Are you higher on Jokic’s passing than LeBron’s?

[GSP]

I feel like the Clips coaching would be better if Lue.was the head lol

I still get nightmares of the 08 series against the Hawks. I don't care if we won the title. Going 7 with that **** team and Zaza **** Pachulia popping off and having a moment saying NOTTHINGG EAZZUY GAME SEVEEEERRN still makes my blood boil

[Doctor MJ]

Both you and I didn't like lebron's "off-court" impact in 18-19, and I've been indifferent towards his leadership after he's left the cavs(the first time), but frankly, nabbing the lakers AD easily makes up for that on a purely rational calculus. It didn't end up that way, but the lakers probably could have gotten AD as a free agent, and essentially nabbing your team a player who arguably could be the best in the league is probably worth more wins than however many losses he's picked up via leGMing.

AD really seems like the perfect partner for LeBron. Way better than any star-level player he's ever played with.

I find myself wondering how much of this LeBron understood ahead of time. The way the Lakers built around LeBron pre-AD was incredibly tone deaf, and LeBron seems like he thought those other moves was a good idea. Given that, I find myself thinking that it's quite likely that LeBron really did make a really dumb move in going to the Lakers and just happened to get bailed out because things didn't pan out for AD in NO. Had AD not been available, I expect the Lakers get some other co-star, but in the absence of this kind of talent + fit that we see with LeBron/AD, I don't think think the Lakers are necessarily even contenders.

Of course, while I am someone who holds "off-court" GMing impact against players like LeBron, it's real impact I'm talking about. Whether LeBron got lucky or not, if LeBron wins a title playing like LeBron this year it will absolutely be the closing accomplishment LeBron needed to give him a very strong GOAT argument in my book.

Meanwhile, AD feels even luckier. I was a huge AD guy coming into the draft, but I really though he should have been able to achieve more in NO, and the way he handled his exit from there was dumb and ugly. If the Lakers roll with him as an unstoppable force the rest of the way, then all of that is truly water under the bridge and we're beginning to ask what it will take for AD to make into into Top 25 all-time.

Lebrons lebron. He went to LA at a bad time for the team but he obviously had plans ahead of time and had some level of confidence in them fielding a contender. I’m sure he had discussions with AD. He wasn’t going there if he didn’t think there was a chance to build on his legacy.

I actually think it goes further and am pretty sure he had decided to go there after the 2017 season. This was probably planned for a long time. I was certain the whole season he was leaving after 2018. I could tell he had one foot out the door and assumed it was for LA. Just the way his relationship with Gilbert soured and not signing off on trades for the cavs because Gilbert wanted a commitment. He obviously wanted out and good on him for it.


I think a lot of people, like your self went too crazy over the mess last season when they tried to trade for AD. Getting AD was absolutely the best possible thing and the pelicans were pretty sour at the time and blew it up. But really who cares, lebron was looking forward and looking out for his own legacy like he should. That team wasnt winning anything and the bad environment it created is not a big deal in the long run. The juice was worth the squeeze.

As we can see with this team lebron is clearly a good leader and gels with his teammates well. Both on and off the court. Same goes for first stint cavs and 15-17 cavs. 18 was rough. He was on his way out and he told Gilbert not to trade Kyrie for IT. There was a lot of bad blood between lebron and Dan that last year. But when he has a team around him he’s a great leader and has been more often than not his career.

Eh, what squeeze and what juice? You think LeBron making the Laker culture sour last year brought AD there?

[Doctor MJ]

So jokics 3pt shooting continues to be amazing and so far beyond his regular season self. Both for season and career when comparing reg season and post season.

Good point, and if he's a clearly outstanding 3-point shooter in addition to his best-in-league passing and savvy interior scoring game, it's pretty dang understandable why it's impossible to stop the Denver offense. (To say nothing of Murray turning the corner.)

Are you higher on Jokic’s passing than LeBron’s?

Yes.

[Dupp]

AD really seems like the perfect partner for LeBron. Way better than any star-level player he's ever played with.

I find myself wondering how much of this LeBron understood ahead of time. The way the Lakers built around LeBron pre-AD was incredibly tone deaf, and LeBron seems like he thought those other moves was a good idea. Given that, I find myself thinking that it's quite likely that LeBron really did make a really dumb move in going to the Lakers and just happened to get bailed out because things didn't pan out for AD in NO. Had AD not been available, I expect the Lakers get some other co-star, but in the absence of this kind of talent + fit that we see with LeBron/AD, I don't think think the Lakers are necessarily even contenders.

Of course, while I am someone who holds "off-court" GMing impact against players like LeBron, it's real impact I'm talking about. Whether LeBron got lucky or not, if LeBron wins a title playing like LeBron this year it will absolutely be the closing accomplishment LeBron needed to give him a very strong GOAT argument in my book.

Meanwhile, AD feels even luckier. I was a huge AD guy coming into the draft, but I really though he should have been able to achieve more in NO, and the way he handled his exit from there was dumb and ugly. If the Lakers roll with him as an unstoppable force the rest of the way, then all of that is truly water under the bridge and we're beginning to ask what it will take for AD to make into into Top 25 all-time.

Lebrons lebron. He went to LA at a bad time for the team but he obviously had plans ahead of time and had some level of confidence in them fielding a contender. I’m sure he had discussions with AD. He wasn’t going there if he didn’t think there was a chance to build on his legacy.

I actually think it goes further and am pretty sure he had decided to go there after the 2017 season. This was probably planned for a long time. I was certain the whole season he was leaving after 2018. I could tell he had one foot out the door and assumed it was for LA. Just the way his relationship with Gilbert soured and not signing off on trades for the cavs because Gilbert wanted a commitment. He obviously wanted out and good on him for it.


I think a lot of people, like your self went too crazy over the mess last season when they tried to trade for AD. Getting AD was absolutely the best possible thing and the pelicans were pretty sour at the time and blew it up. But really who cares, lebron was looking forward and looking out for his own legacy like he should. That team wasnt winning anything and the bad environment it created is not a big deal in the long run. The juice was worth the squeeze.

As we can see with this team lebron is clearly a good leader and gels with his teammates well. Both on and off the court. Same goes for first stint cavs and 15-17 cavs. 18 was rough. He was on his way out and he told Gilbert not to trade Kyrie for IT. There was a lot of bad blood between lebron and Dan that last year. But when he has a team around him he’s a great leader and has been more often than not his career.

Eh, what squeeze and what juice? You think LeBron making the Laker culture sour last year brought AD there?

For one what culture did that team have? They’d been a mess on and off court for a long time.


Things went sour in an attempt to get AD. And AD, as it turns out, was worth that.

[Dupp]

I feel like the Clips coaching would be better if Lue.was the head lol

I still get nightmares of the 08 series against the Hawks. I don't care if we won the title. Going 7 with that **** team and Zaza **** Pachulia popping off and having a moment saying NOTTHINGG EAZZUY GAME SEVEEEERRN still makes my blood boil

It is one of the goat quotes though