The Giannis Antetokounmpo Thread

[euliss]

and here i thought hed be like a taller tracy mcgrady

[Talent Chaser]

His destiny appears to be a 6'11 Russell Westbrook. That's terrifying for the rest of the NBA. I'll take my props now too. I've been adamant about his talent and his ability to be an amazing point forward for 4 years now.

[H2tObes]

Anybody who was aware of what he was capable of knew he could be great, it's really interesting to see it coming together so quickly though.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Anybody who was aware of what he was capable of knew he could be great, it's really interesting to see it coming together so quickly though.

I don't think that is true. I designed my own giannis shirt and had it shipped to me cause I loved the pick so much and wanted to be the first guy in Milwaukee with a Giannis shirt. That said, I don't blame anyone who had legit concerns about him. Could he still get to the rim without a jumpshot? Would he put on too weight as he grows and matures to be effective as a slasher/ball handler. 3 months ago couldn't blame anyone who said Giannis most likely would be just an above-average starter. Very few players actually make that extra leap and we are lucky Giannis did.

[H2tObes]

Anybody who was aware of what he was capable of knew he could be great, it's really interesting to see it coming together so quickly though.

I don't think that is true. I designed my own giannis shirt and had it shipped to me cause I loved the pick so much and wanted to be the first guy in Milwaukee with a Giannis shirt. That said, I don't blame anyone who had legit concerns about him. Could he still get to the rim without a jumpshot? Would he put on too weight as he grows and matures to be effective as a slasher/ball handler. 3 months ago couldn't blame anyone who said Giannis most likely would be just an above-average starter. Very few players actually make that extra leap and we are lucky Giannis did.

Notice I said "could" instead of "would"

[King Ken]

Why not. GA with 27/12/10/3/4 on 71% FG. He's pretty much the point guard now.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I_ehwRCpjE[/youtube]

His development since his rookie year has been remarkable. Really hope he continues his path of progression.

What's the situation with the Bucks this season? Haven't watched them play at all, but it seems like their team looks pretty solid on paper at least.

He has unlimited potential. He still has some parts of the where he is lacking but he could be a top 5 player in the NBA sooner than later

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[King Ken]

His destiny appears to be a 6'11 Russell Westbrook. That's terrifying for the rest of the NBA. I'll take my props now too. I've been adamant about his talent and his ability to be an amazing point forward for 4 years now.

On another board, I called him a 7ft Westbrook. He really does play like Russell played when he was younger. Where you see the potential to be great but he's not there yet but once he gets there like Russell is now, he will be amazing

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[GYK]

I don't see a point guard. It was a GREAT game. But he's more full court LeBron in Durant's body(those are amazing gifts. Thinking he'll be a superstar is absolutely a good idea). The difference between him and every wing with point guard duties is the pick and roll. He doesn't run the pick and roll at all.

Eh? This isn't true. Through the season to date, he hasn't run it MUCH because he's not been installed directly at the point, but he's got something like 93 possessions (or a shade over 8% of his touches) as PnR sets, and that's been accelerating over the past dozen games or so.

I don't want to get banned again (I like the site and app)..but if you're going to give stats give the link.

[tsherkin]

I don't see a point guard. It was a GREAT game. But he's more full court LeBron in Durant's body(those are amazing gifts. Thinking he'll be a superstar is absolutely a good idea). The difference between him and every wing with point guard duties is the pick and roll. He doesn't run the pick and roll at all.

Eh? This isn't true. Through the season to date, he hasn't run it MUCH because he's not been installed directly at the point, but he's got something like 93 possessions (or a shade over 8% of his touches) as PnR sets, and that's been accelerating over the past dozen games or so.

I don't want to get banned again (I like the site and app)..but if you're going to give stats give the link.

You're not going to get banned for asking someone to source their claim, G. stats.nba.com, play type tracking. He's at 8.7% and 104 possessions now.

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/ball-handler/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&CF=TeamNameAbbreviation*E*MIL

[Magic Giannison]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/4bnxw4/giannis_point_guard_is_a_done_deal/
So, his agent sounded really confident on calling Giannis point guard, he said that he always was PG but needed time to build his confidence at NBA level.

Wow, im not sure how Giannis can guard quick pgs but wasnt magic also not guarding PG and still was called PG?

[tsherkin]

Wow, im not sure how Giannis can guard quick pgs but wasnt magic also not guarding PG and still was called PG?

Magic didn't often guard PGs at all, yes. He more guarded 2s and 3s, sometimes 4s. He was called a PG, but this was before the phrase "point forward" caught fire with Pippen. Pressey was before that, but it didn't really become a popular term until and after Scottie, and into the contemporary period.

[SlowPaced]

Giannis right now is unbelievable in the literal sense for me. I always feel like he's gonna **** it up and get a lot of turnovers. It just seems like a ridiculous idea for a 6'11'' guy to be the primary ball handler and playmaker for a team. But he doesn't **** it up. In fact, he's been very efficient as a playmaker. Just crazy man.

His AST/TO ratio in March is drastically higher than what Rajon Rondo, Russell Westbrook and John Wall are doing for the season. 3.32 for Giannis, 2.95 for Rondo, 2.44 for Russ, 2.43 for Wall. He might not keep it up at that level but this speaks volumes about his playmaking.

[GYK]

Eh? This isn't true. Through the season to date, he hasn't run it MUCH because he's not been installed directly at the point, but he's got something like 93 possessions (or a shade over 8% of his touches) as PnR sets, and that's been accelerating over the past dozen games or so.

I don't want to get banned again (I like the site and app)..but if you're going to give stats give the link.

You're not going to get banned for asking someone to source their claim, G. stats.nba.com, play type tracking. He's at 8.7% and 104 possessions now.

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/ball-handler/?dir=1&PT=player&OD=offensive&CF=TeamNameAbbreviation*E*MIL

That's very little pick and roles, a staple of point guard playmaking.

Hey as a mod do you know how to get notifications on the app? It's perfect except I can't see if I get quoted or go back a page on the topics.

[tsherkin]

That's very little pick and roles, a staple of point guard playmaking.

Remember two things:

1) That's for the whole season, and he wasn't doing it for the whole season.

2) You don't actually NEED PnR to be a playmaker, it's just one angle for doing it

So at 69 games, he was at 104 PnR possessions, yes? He ran 4 PnRs last game (and raised his seasonal proportion to 8.9%). That's plenty, given everything else he does. He doesn't need to spam it in order to get things going for his team. It'll vary from game to game, but he uses the set as necessary.

Hey as a mod do you know how to get notifications on the app? It's perfect except I can't see if I get quoted or go back a page on the topics.

I don't, that's a question for dream or someone over on the Feedback board. I don't use the app, I just browse to the webpage on my phone, but I'm sure someone can answer that for you.

[lorak]

Wow, im not sure how Giannis can guard quick pgs but wasnt magic also not guarding PG and still was called PG?

Magic didn't often guard PGs at all, yes. He more guarded 2s and 3s, sometimes 4s. He was called a PG, but this was before the phrase "point forward" caught fire with Pippen. Pressey was before that, but it didn't really become a popular term until and after Scottie, and into the contemporary period.

Before Pressey there were also Marques (and around 1984 was first time when term "point forward" was used - by Bucks coaches), Reid and of course Barry. I think even Stokes can be called point forward and probably he would be very first in that role.

[tsherkin]

Before Pressey there were also Marques (and around 1984 was first time when term "point forward" was used - by Bucks coaches), Reid and of course Barry. I think even Stokes can be called point forward and probably he would be very first in that role.

Sure, but that doesn't mean the term was that popular. Hell, if you want to be particular, Havlicek was a 6'6, 6'7 ball-handler for 70s Boston, too. I wasn't saying the role originated with Pippen, I thought I was fairly clear that I was talking about the popularity of the term. Kind of like Oscar was ripping off triple-doubles like nothing but we didn't really talk about it until Magic Johnson.

[GYK]

That's very little pick and roles, a staple of point guard playmaking.

Remember two things:

1) That's for the whole season, and he wasn't doing it for the whole season.

2) You don't actually NEED PnR to be a playmaker, it's just one angle for doing it

So at 69 games, he was at 104 PnR possessions, yes? He ran 4 PnRs last game (and raised his seasonal proportion to 8.9%). That's plenty, given everything else he does. He doesn't need to spam it in order to get things going for his team. It'll vary from game to game, but he uses the set as necessary.

Hey as a mod do you know how to get notifications on the app? It's perfect except I can't see if I get quoted or go back a page on the topics.

I don't, that's a question for dream or someone over on the Feedback board. I don't use the app, I just browse to the webpage on my phone, but I'm sure someone can answer that for you.

iight. Thanks.

Of course pick and roll play isn't necessary for a playmaker. I think he's a fine playmaker. Transition elite. But to run a full scope of the modern offense as a PG you would add heavy pick and roll usage. Even LeBron runs the pick and roll as well as Harden.
They are calling him the Westbrook of wings but are forgetting that intragral part of Russ game that enables him to run an offense.

[tsherkin]

But to run a full scope of the modern offense as a PG you would add heavy pick and roll usage.

There isn't much to support that, no. It's useful to be able to do, but it isn't critical to be a feature portion of your offense. It depends very much on the arrangement of the team's offensive philosophy. PnR serves a couple of fairly specific purposes, but you can gain lane entry and what-not in a variety of ways, and Giannis has quite reasonable breadth to how he operates Milwaukee's offense.

Again, you're basically conflating the fact that PnR is quite common with the idea that it is entirely NECESSARY in that proportion, and it really isn't the case.

He runs in transition. He runs PnR with Plumlee for tight passes inside and lobs (we saw a bunch of that against the Wolves). He dribble-penetrates, pitches to the corner. Sometimes that's a shot, sometimes he fades back out to grab a reversal pass and fires it to the opposite corner. Probe, probe, probe, reverse, boom. Dribble penetrates to the bottom half of the circle and pitches to the corner, or to the elbow or to whomever is open, really.

Here's the key, and here's a major failing of your point: if he can get into the paint without a screen (which he does, frequently), then he has absolutely no real need to run regular PnR. Teams collapse in on him when he isolates and gets into the key because he's a long 7-footer who finishes well in close, but because he has great vision, he burns them with his shooters. Does it with post-ups, does it with isos, does it with PnR, does it in transition (the Bucks have one of the best slow-transition breaks in the league, actually, especially when Giannis and Middleton are on the floor together).

This is what I'm talking about: he has breadth of options so that he doesn't need to spam one set. He's very comfortable going to the post, he gets a lot of those Durant isos where he initiates, swings the ball, then gets a reversal pass which leaves him in single coverage, which he can then use to get into the key and mess up the defense. Stuff like that is why he doesn't actually need to spam PnR, because he serves the same effect with patient perimeter passing, perimeter and post isolation (right OR left block)... and then yeah, he still runs 4, 5+ PnRs a game anyway. TL;DR, you need to watch the Bucks play more, most especially over this recent stretch where he's producing all of these assists and running the offense full-time.

I don't mean to be pedantic or insulting, but if you get eyes-on, it becomes STAGGERINGLY obvious that there is no great deficiency in his ability to run the offense because he isn't just going to PnR over and over and over again. The other thing you're also missing is that the proportion of PnRs recorded on NBA.com doesn't necessarily reflect possessions where he took a screen but nothing immediately came of it, right? If the play doesn't yield a possession-ending event, then the site doesn't record it, so if he doesn't get a shot or an assist out of it, they're not always recording it, but he uses the set to move the defense and swing the ball around quite frequently. The Minnesota game alone sort of shows you how inaccurate is your perception of Giannis' game, and how heavily influenced by the earlier portion of the seasons are those possession numbers.


Fine example. 2Q against the Thunder, takes a screen from the right corner from Plumlee but fades back out to the right wing, nothing comes of it. Goes away from a left-side screen from Parker, and penetrates to the right block and pitches back out to Parker, who slashes in for a layup. Tons of PnR action all over the place there, and used in a couple of different ways and from different spots and directions. PnR with Plumlee taking Giannis to the left side, Plumz goes to the rim, Giannis pitches to Parker at the top of the circle for the jumper.

PnR. PnR. PnR. PnR.

Endless PnR. There are many ways to run that set besides just spamming it with a high screen from the point. Giannis uses wing and post PnR a fair amount, and he doesn't always use the first screen to get what he's after because he's patient.

I could go on, but that would become dreadfully repetitive, and I've ranted a fair bit already, but I take it you get my point now, yes?

He runs PLENTY of PnR. It's irrefutable that he runs it more than enough under his current role, and that he's got a wide breadth of possession activity which enables him to run the offense. It's wholly inaccurate to say he doesn't use it, or that he doesn't use it "enough."

Even LeBron runs the pick and roll as well as Harden.

Ever has that been a focal element of Lebron's game, yes, but that's not really proof that PnR is the only way to mainline offensive flow.

They are calling him the Westbrook of wings but are forgetting that intragral part of Russ game that enables him to run an offense.

Westbrook spams transition to a larger extent than Giannis, and isolates quite a bit more as well. He is a different STYLE of playmaker, but that doesn't really change the ability Giannis is displaying to run an offense, just the way in which he goes about doing so.

[Magic Giannison]

5th Triple double for the season , surpases/ties Lebron for the most under 22. Magic Jonhson leads with 6 and 7.
18/11//11 3 blocks and 2 steals.

[miwaukee]

Giannis with a new career high 34p game against the bulls.

his stat line: 34p 5reb 9ast 1st 1bs 4TO