All-Time Fantasy Draft With FGA Limit - Meta Thread

[kayess]

I mean everything's going to looked stacked of course, but a few standouts to me:

1) Hibachi with the '01 Lakers on steroids - it's pretty hard to argue against a better version of the core that went on probably the most dominant PS run ever
2) Frazier giving LeBron superstar (and in the case of the latter, prime) versions of players he's always lacked it seems - defensive big man/PNR guy and a shooter teams are afraid to slog off of
3) Forgot who, but DRob AND Dirk? Yeah, let's just get 2 relatively underappreciated players due to their relative lack of team success, and give them what they've always needed their entire careers - somebody who can do the scoring/somebody who can do everything else, but especially defend

[Clyde Frazier]

Something that just occurred to me…

During the 1994–95, 1995–96, and 1996–97 seasons, the NBA attempted to address decreased scoring by shortening the distance of the line from 23 feet, 9 inches (22 feet at the corners) to a uniform 22 feet (6.7 m) around the basket. From the 1997–98 season on, the NBA reverted the line to its original distance of 23 feet, 9 inches (22 feet at the corners).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_field_goal#History

How will players picked during these 3 seasons be looked at as far as their 3PT output / % is concerned? Should it be taken at face value since they couldn’t control that the line was shorter, or is the value of their ability to hit 3s lessened? In a general evaluation, we can look at how they shot in other seasons, but that doesn’t seem applicable here since we’re focusing on single seasons for each player.

[Square]

Something that just occurred to me…

During the 1994–95, 1995–96, and 1996–97 seasons, the NBA attempted to address decreased scoring by shortening the distance of the line from 23 feet, 9 inches (22 feet at the corners) to a uniform 22 feet (6.7 m) around the basket. From the 1997–98 season on, the NBA reverted the line to its original distance of 23 feet, 9 inches (22 feet at the corners).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_field_goal#History

How will players picked during these 3 seasons be looked at as far as their 3PT output / % is concerned? Should it be taken at face value since they couldn’t control that the line was shorter, or is the value of their ability to hit 3s lessened? In a general evaluation, we can look at how they shot in other seasons, but that doesn’t seem applicable here since we’re focusing on single seasons for each player.

I mean, I know this is about peak play but for me a player's peak season can still be viewed in the context of his overall career. If a guy has one or two good three point shooting seasons in a career of mostly bad shooting, I'm not likely to think he's that good an outside shooter, even if he shot 37% in one season or whatever. If that season came during the period of the shortened three point line, then I may be extra suspicious.

The same pretty much goes for other stats, not just three point shooting.

Of course, this is just my personal take.

[eminence]

Something that just occurred to me…

During the 1994–95, 1995–96, and 1996–97 seasons, the NBA attempted to address decreased scoring by shortening the distance of the line from 23 feet, 9 inches (22 feet at the corners) to a uniform 22 feet (6.7 m) around the basket. From the 1997–98 season on, the NBA reverted the line to its original distance of 23 feet, 9 inches (22 feet at the corners).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_field_goal#History

How will players picked during these 3 seasons be looked at as far as their 3PT output / % is concerned? Should it be taken at face value since they couldn’t control that the line was shorter, or is the value of their ability to hit 3s lessened? In a general evaluation, we can look at how they shot in other seasons, but that doesn’t seem applicable here since we’re focusing on single seasons for each player.

Can't speak for everyone, but personally I will devalue 3's from those seasons a bit, especially if they are obviously deviations from their career norms.

[Clyde Frazier]

Something that just occurred to me…

During the 1994–95, 1995–96, and 1996–97 seasons, the NBA attempted to address decreased scoring by shortening the distance of the line from 23 feet, 9 inches (22 feet at the corners) to a uniform 22 feet (6.7 m) around the basket. From the 1997–98 season on, the NBA reverted the line to its original distance of 23 feet, 9 inches (22 feet at the corners).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_field_goal#History

How will players picked during these 3 seasons be looked at as far as their 3PT output / % is concerned? Should it be taken at face value since they couldn’t control that the line was shorter, or is the value of their ability to hit 3s lessened? In a general evaluation, we can look at how they shot in other seasons, but that doesn’t seem applicable here since we’re focusing on single seasons for each player.

Can't speak for everyone, but personally I will devalue 3's from those seasons a bit, especially if they are obviously deviations from their career norms.

I'm really just trying to get a general consensus as it's early in the draft and the only player who's been selected from those seasons so far is 95 stockton.

~

[Quotatious]

Something that just occurred to me…



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_field_goal#History

How will players picked during these 3 seasons be looked at as far as their 3PT output / % is concerned? Should it be taken at face value since they couldn’t control that the line was shorter, or is the value of their ability to hit 3s lessened? In a general evaluation, we can look at how they shot in other seasons, but that doesn’t seem applicable here since we’re focusing on single seasons for each player.

Can't speak for everyone, but personally I will devalue 3's from those seasons a bit, especially if they are obviously deviations from their career norms.

I'm really just trying to get a general consensus as it's early in the draft and the only player who's been selected from those seasons so far is 95 stockton.

~

I have no problem with people selecting players from the years when the 3-pt line was shortened. People selecting players from those seasons do so at their own peril.

[Texas Chuck]

Stockton only made 1.2 3's per game in 1995. Would be surprised if anyone docked him significantly. His percentages do suggest he benefited from the shorter line, but since his volume was so low it really had negligible impact on his overall impact imo.

[Texas Chuck]

Now a guy like 95 Dana Barros would be a different story(not that he is going to get picked in this game obviously)

[Clyde Frazier]

Can't speak for everyone, but personally I will devalue 3's from those seasons a bit, especially if they are obviously deviations from their career norms.

I'm really just trying to get a general consensus as it's early in the draft and the only player who's been selected from those seasons so far is 95 stockton.

~

I have no problem with people selecting players from the years when the 3-pt line was shortened. People selecting players from those seasons do so at their own peril.

Well that’s a good way of putting it

I don’t foresee myself eyeing any of the true outliers from those years, but there are still some appealing players who benefited from the shorter line. Guess i’ll just put a lesser emphasis on that skill if I pick them, which is fine.

[Quotatious]

Stockton only made 1.2 3's per game in 1995. Would be surprised if anyone docked him significantly. His percentages do suggest he benefited from the shorter line, but since his volume was so low it really had negligible impact on his overall impact imo.

Stockton had plenty of seasons with >40% from beyond the arc (seven, to be exact), and four of those (so majority) with normal 3-pt line, so I don't think his '95 season was a fluke. He was never a high volume 3-pt shooter (2.8 attempts was his career high), though, so I don't think it's a big deal, regardless.

[Clyde Frazier]

Stockton only made 1.2 3's per game in 1995. Would be surprised if anyone docked him significantly. His percentages do suggest he benefited from the shorter line, but since his volume was so low it really had negligible impact on his overall impact imo.

Stockton had plenty of seasons with >40% from beyond the arc (seven, to be exact), and four of those (so majority) with normal 3-pt line, so I don't think his '95 season was a fluke.

He did technically shoot the 2nd highest percentage on highest volume of his careeer that year, though. So there is a correlation.

[Texas Chuck]

Stockton only made 1.2 3's per game in 1995. Would be surprised if anyone docked him significantly. His percentages do suggest he benefited from the shorter line, but since his volume was so low it really had negligible impact on his overall impact imo.

Stockton had plenty of seasons with >40% from beyond the arc (seven, to be exact), and four of those (so majority) with normal 3-pt line, so I don't think his '95 season was a fluke.

No its definitiely not a fluke and I didn't think I was suggesting that. But I think its fair to say that his 3 "best" years shooting 3's when you combine volume and accuracy are the 3 years in question. Again I was strongly suggesting no one dock him on based on that because as you say--he demonstrated he could hit the longer shot albeit on his typical lower volume.

[Owly]

Something that just occurred to me…

During the 1994–95, 1995–96, and 1996–97 seasons, the NBA attempted to address decreased scoring by shortening the distance of the line from 23 feet, 9 inches (22 feet at the corners) to a uniform 22 feet (6.7 m) around the basket. From the 1997–98 season on, the NBA reverted the line to its original distance of 23 feet, 9 inches (22 feet at the corners).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_field_goal#History

How will players picked during these 3 seasons be looked at as far as their 3PT output / % is concerned? Should it be taken at face value since they couldn’t control that the line was shorter, or is the value of their ability to hit 3s lessened? In a general evaluation, we can look at how they shot in other seasons, but that doesn’t seem applicable here since we’re focusing on single seasons for each player.

My reactions ...

1) Corner three is still the same. Now there's some cost to being in the corner (limited options in terms of movement) so there is warrant for that. Still if someone makes a large portion of their threes at shorter points on the line these days how different is that from doing well (if not significantly outside career norms -- might be required as a caveat there).

2) Three point percentage league-wide actually went down for that span, iirc. Part of this would be people who shouldn't be taking threes starting taking them. Still it might mean that the difference in difficulty might not be so great, one hypothesis on why might be ...

3) ... the advantage of shorter distance came at the cost of shorter recovery times and perhaps more contested shots (possible corollary would be that the shorter three compromised spacing for internal players to work and players with conventional three point range were best served remaining out at the old line).

4) I suspect, right or wrong, perception of who that player is (how they played/shot outside that year) will affect how such a year is interpreted. I won't go into specific options but the players taken thus far have tended to be the "great" players as defined by their careers (obviously these players correlate largely with the great peaks) and at the margins it makes sense to be informed by other years performance (indeed it can't be helped in terms of the impossibility of mentally redacting impressions formed by other years of play watched, reported on etc). One somewhat-outlier year (depending on metric of choice and the importance of minutes) has already been mentioned and dismissed and my suspicion is, right or wrong, there isn't an appetite for players without a larger body of work. Just an opinion there though.

For me the above would probably put Stockton's performance within the margin of noise you get on any single year stats anyway (i.e. wouldn't adjust it beyond any normal judgements that a year was lucky-unlucky anyhow).

[Timmaytime]

Well having Zo and Pierce snatched up from under me was upsetting...

I need a big who can score, run the PnR and PnP, shoot the ball, and give weird facial expressions.

I need Chris Bosh.

[Timmaytime]

You're on the clock

[pelifan]

Paul Pierce was a great pick. The 2010 version shot 12.2 FGA and was still the go to guy on a finals team. Pace of play and a stacked team keeps those FGA nice and low. It's hard to find wing guys with seasons like that.

[wojoaderge]

I'm reluctant to pick this guy because i'm never been a big fan of his. I don't hate him or dislike him, i've just never been a big fan of his or any team that he played for. I'm not going to do this again



I'll probably select his 1980-81 or 1981-82 season, it depends. If I take the latter i'll probably assign Downtown his 1982-83 campaign.

next

[Square]

A related question to the short three-point line issue: What do people think about ABA seasons? (Personally I'm pro-ABA, since they merged with the NBA, but against using seasons of guys in any other leagues like college or international.)

[Dr Spaceman]

YOUVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. I already had my Sidney Moncrief selection post written. Damn.

[wojoaderge]

YOUVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. I already had my Sidney Moncrief selection post written. Damn.